Rank the various arcs of the franchise

[AliTheZombie13]

Your threshold might vary, but the problem you seem to have with Pan might be comparable to the problem I have with Goku and Vegeta in these two arcs and beyond.

If we focus on these two arcs alone, as the final parts of the manga, I believe Goku and Vegeta aren't as flawed as they may initially seem.

On a vacuum, they work. But then GT happened, the revised manga ending happened, Super happened, and the rest is history.
I should probably shut up, we're derailing the thread.

[BernardoCairo]

On a vacuum, they work. But then GT happened, the revised manga ending happened, Super happened, and the rest is history.

Sure, but most of those are sequels created by different people and often years apart. So they don't really alter the original material for me personally.

we're derailing the thread

I mean, we are still debating the quality of the arcs

[Mr Baggins]

GT's first arc, outside of just being boring, uninspired and incoherent

I would differ from your middle word. As much condemnation as I give GT and its first arc, I'd never describe its premise as uninspired. There's a lot of cool things you can do with a "grand tour" in space starring kid Goku, his granddaughter, and Trunks.

But you're absolutely right about the boring part, because everything I just said goes out the window the moment it's absent of the one artist who fundamentally knows his work and gets how to execute this exact thing from nearly every career project he's made. The art of whimsy and surprise was something Toriyama inherently understood. Adventure and comedy were baked into his genre writing DNA. When you replace that with some of the most trite, generic scripting you could effortlessly find in any old bog standard Toei production, what you get is a slog.

GT's first arc isn't simply mediocre; it oozes banality, the very last thing any adventure story should strive to be. When people say it sucks because the creator isn't involved, this is what they mean.

And that's not even getting into its uniquely awful character writing, which pervades the entire series. I haven't yet posted my scores in this thread, but spoiler alert: GT would damn near consistently be at the bottom, without question.

[Vegeta th3 4th]

There's a lot of cool things you can do with a "grand tour" in space starring kid Goku, his granddaughter, and Trunks.

That line up never worked for me. Goku is the main character so of course he's going, Pan is his granddaughter and someone we want to know more about, but Trunks ? He just doesn't fit. Why not Uub, Goku's student ? Why not Goten, the son we never saw him interact with ? Why not Gohan, Pan's dad ? Trunks is so out of place here, as there's very little room to use him in. I know he was selected to fly the ship, but what else does he bring to the table ?

[Yuji]

I would differ from your middle word. As much condemnation as I give GT and its first arc, I'd never describe its premise as uninspired. There's a lot of cool things you can do with a "grand tour" in space starring kid Goku, his granddaughter, and Trunks.

There's a lot of things you can do in an "adventure" story. That doesn't necessarily mean that the choice to turn Goku back into a child (which we know was market-driven) and rehash an arc from the original series, complete with almost 1:1 recreations of obstacles and plot beats was itself inspired.

[Mr Baggins]

Trunks is so out of place here, as there's very little room to use him in. I know he was selected to fly the ship, but what else does he bring to the table ?

Trunks was intended to be the straight man of the group; the heir to Capsule Corp with a sense of responsibility. In theory, he's a fine balance to the eccentricity of Goku and Pan.

That doesn't necessarily mean that the choice to turn Goku back into a child (which we know was market-driven) and rehash an arc from the original series, complete with almost 1:1 recreations of obstacles and plot beats was itself inspired.

According to Atsushi Maekawa, the decision to turn Goku back into a kid was itself inspired by the idea of returning to the series' original genre (i.e. adventure) and limiting Goku's abilities so that the cast would have obstacles to overcome. That doesn't, to me, scream cynical marketing the same way just about everything else in GT does, though I'll be the first to admit I'm not familiar with everything said about the show by its production staff.

Although like I said, they thoroughly botched this idea when actually writing it. Dragon Ball has always lived and died by its execution, and they failed to get the foundation right.

[Vegeta th3 4th]

I'll be the first to admit I'm not familiar with everything said about the show by its production staff.

The worst thing they said was that they mandated a Goku only show from the very beginning, as people didn't care that much about the other characters. That one decision likely doomed the entire thing. Why would you take a series known for its cast of characters, and get rid of said cast of characters ? If it wasn't Goku, it wasn't worth showing/telling. What's worse is that what little we did see of the secondary cast showed that they had some good idea, they were just afraid to explore them.

[Cipher]

I really can't rank arcs between series. The original ten manga arcs would be over everything else, even if I sometimes have more fun rereading bits of Super than my lowest ranking portions of the original series--they're setting up their own iconography and generally just being a joy on every subsequent pass. After that, the Super manga and GT are doing such different things in different mediums that I find them hard to directly rank. Daima, however, would be my single least favorite arc.

So, original Dragon Ball (manga) (And this is fairly set):
1. Boo
2. Namek
3. 23rd Tenkaichi Budokai
4. Red Ribbon Army
5. 21st Tenkaichi Budokai
6. Saiyan
7. 22nd Tenkaichi Budokai
8. Piccolo Daimao
9. Opening arc
10. Cell

Followed by, Super (manga):
1. Universe 6
2. Tournament of Power
3. Granolah
4. Future Trunks
5. Super Hero (as an arc; might be my favorite movie though; maybe just take this off the list)
6. Moro

Followed by GT, probably, but I don't know. Again, I wouldn't necessarily place this lower than all of Super, but they're hard to directly compare. Super via the manga and movies feels more of a piece with the original series, but GT does plenty I enjoy. I would say though that I probably enjoy these all more than the Moro arc.
1. Evil Dragons
2. Super 17
3. Baby

Followed by:
Daima
Caveats about finding series hard to rank against each other above, there's really no question that this and Moro sit on bottom across the metaseries for me.

I don't even know how to begin bringing the Super anime into this, so I won't. I generally dislike it on the whole though, and there's a version of its storylines I enjoy, so I'm only tackling those here.

[Yuji]

I really can't rank arcs between series. The original ten manga arcs would be over everything else, even if I sometimes have more fun rereading bits of Super than my lowest ranking portions of the original series--they're setting up their own iconography and generally just being a joy on every subsequent pass. After that, the Super manga and GT are doing such different things in different mediums that I find them hard to directly rank. Daima, however, would be my single least favorite arc.

So, original Dragon Ball (manga) (And this is fairly set):
1. Boo
2. Namek
3. 23rd Tenkaichi Budokai
4. Red Ribbon Army
5. 21st Tenkaichi Budokai
6. Saiyan
7. 22nd Tenkaichi Budokai
8. Piccolo Daimao
9. Opening arc
10. Cell

Followed by, Super (manga):
1. Universe 6
2. Tournament of Power
3. Granolah
4. Future Trunks
5. Super Hero (as an arc; might be my favorite movie though; maybe just take this off the list)
6. Moro

Followed by GT, probably, but I don't know. Again, I wouldn't necessarily place this lower than all of Super, but they're hard to directly compare. Super via the manga and movies feels more of a piece with the original series, but GT does plenty I enjoy. I would say though that I probably enjoy these all more than the Moro arc.
1. Evil Dragons
2. Super 17
3. Baby

Followed by:
Daima
Caveats about finding series hard to rank against each other above, there's really no question that this and Moro sit on bottom across the metaseries for me.

I don't even know how to begin bringing the Super anime into this, so I won't. I generally dislike it on the whole though, and there's a version of its storylines I enjoy, so I'm only tackling those here.

Did you not prefer the anime's take on the Zamasu arc? Or am I misrembering, and it was just the ending?

[Cipher]

Did you not prefer the anime's take on the Zamasu arc? Or am I misrembering, and it was just the ending?

There's no whole arc I prefer in the Super anime to its equivalent in the manga, but I think specifically the final episode of the arc in the anime might be stronger than the manga's more tongue-in-cheek take. The Future Trunks arc in the anime is also the only one I kind of like, but I'm still not sitting through it again any time soon.

[Mr Baggins]

Here's mine now that Daima has finished.

I think I last posted these like five years ago. Not much has changed since then. It's almost a sort of tradition of mine to re-read/re-watch a lot of this material every two years or so, and I've come to the conclusion that while the original manga as a whole is a superb comic, its even tighter focus on characterization and themes from the 23rd TB onward makes it an unequivocal improvement over what came before that arc across the board. BoG, DBS Broly, Jaco, and Daima are the only modern stories that can compete with the OG run, IMO.

Majin Buu (or "Boo", I go back and forth on the spelling) will always be my favorite story arc, embodying everything that made both early and late DB so great in addition to just being a perfect conclusion to Goku and Vegeta's throughlines. You can tell Toriyama had a lot of fun writing it, and I can never feel bored reading it.

Everything listed within each tier is generally in no particular order. I could meticulously order it all if I really wanted, but I feel that level of granularity is pretty meaningless. This is strictly for the purpose of personal recommendation.

S Tier: Peak Performance
Majin Buu, Frieza, Saiyan, 23rd Tenkaichi Budokai, Broly (2018 film)

A Tier: Required Reading
Androids/Cell, Piccolo Daimao, 21st and 22nd Tenkaichi Budokais, Red Ribbon Army, Pilaf, Dragon Ball Daima, Battle of Gods (2012 film), Jaco the Galactic Patrolman

B Tier: Great Gems
Universe Survival (Super manga), Universe 6 Tournament (Super manga), The Path to Power (1996 film)

C Tier: Decent Deebeezee
Future Trunks (Super manga), Super Hero (2022 film and Super manga), Resurrection 'F' (2015 film)

D Tier: Mid Mimicry
Galactic Patrol Prisoner (Super manga), Fusion Reborn (1995 film), Wrath of the Dragon (1995 film), Dead Zone (1989 film)

F Tier: Tasteless Trash
Dragon Ball GT (all arcs, but the first is the worst), Dragon Ball Super TV anime (all arcs – yes, the execution is that bad), Granolah the Survivor (Super manga), every movie not already listed above (which is like 13 of them)

And if such a thing as a tier even lower than F exists, feel free to throw Super Dragon Ball Heroes into that abyss. Not one redeeming quality there.

[Dbzfan94]

Here's mine now that Daima has finished.

I think I last posted these like five years ago. Not much has changed since then. It's almost a sort of tradition of mine to re-read/re-watch a lot of this material every two years or so, and I've come to the conclusion that while the original manga as a whole is a superb comic, its even tighter focus on characterization and themes from the 23rd TB onward makes it an unequivocal improvement over what came before that arc across the board. BoG, DBS Broly, Jaco, and Daima are the only modern stories that can compete with the OG run, IMO.

Majin Buu (or "Boo", I go back and forth on the spelling) will always be my favorite story arc, embodying everything that made both early and late DB so great in addition to just being a perfect conclusion to Goku and Vegeta's throughlines. You can tell Toriyama had a lot of fun writing it, and I can never feel bored reading it.

Everything listed within each tier is generally in no particular order. I could meticulously order it all if I really wanted, but I feel that level of granularity is pretty meaningless. This is strictly for the purpose of personal recommendation.

S Tier: Peak Performance
Majin Buu, Frieza, Saiyan, 23rd Tenkaichi Budokai, Broly (2018 film)

A Tier: Required Reading
Androids/Cell, Piccolo Daimao, 21st and 22nd Tenkaichi Budokais, Red Ribbon Army, Pilaf, Dragon Ball Daima, Battle of Gods (2012 film), Jaco the Galactic Patrolman

B Tier: Great Gems
Universe Survival (Super manga), Universe 6 Tournament (Super manga), The Path to Power (1996 film)

C Tier: Decent Deebeezee
Future Trunks (Super manga), Super Hero (2022 film and Super manga), Resurrection 'F' (2015 film)

D Tier: Mid Mimicry
Galactic Patrol Prisoner (Super manga), Fusion Reborn (1995 film), Wrath of the Dragon (1995 film), Dead Zone (1989 film)

F Tier: Tasteless Trash
Dragon Ball GT (all arcs, but the first is the worst), Dragon Ball Super TV anime (all arcs – yes, the execution is that bad), Granolah the Survivor (Super manga), every movie not already listed above (which is like 13 of them)

And if such a thing as a tier even lower than F exists, feel free to throw Super Dragon Ball Heroes into that abyss. Not one redeeming quality there.

Resurrection F in C while the most of the other Z movies in F is certainly a hot take haha

[Dbzk1999]

Original Manga

First Half:

23rd Tenkaichi Budokai
Piccolo Daimao
21st Tenakichi Budokai
22nd Tenkaichi Budokai
Red Ribbon Army
Opening Arc

Second Half

Saiyan
Namek
Buu
Cell

GT (haven’t rewatched it in a long while and don’t care to)

Super (anime)

Tournament of Power
Future Trunks
U6 Tournament
Battle of Gods
Resurrection F

Never cared for the Super manga and no interest in reading it.

Now that it’s over I’ll get to binge watching Daima with a a friend once I find the time to.

[Vegeta th3 4th]

Now that it’s over I’ll get to binge watching Daima with a a friend once I find the time to.

You'll likely have a better time watching it in on go, as some of its flaws won't be as noticeable compared to watching it week to week.

[Lord Beerus]

I go back and forth a bit on where I would rank all the arcs of Dragon Ball, but I think this is my defensive list:

1.Saiyan
2. 23rd Budokai Tenkaichi
3. Red Ribbon Army/Uranai Baba
4. 22nd Budokai Tenkaichi
5. 21st Budokai Tenkaichi
6. Freeza
7. Majin Boo
8. Emperor Pilaf/Hunt For The Dragon Balls
9. Android/Cell
10. Baby
11. Galactic Patrol Prisoner
12. Universal Survival
13. Demon King Piccolo
14. Future Trunks
15. Champa/Universe 6
16. Great Saiyaman
17. Evil Dragons
18. Black Star Dragon Balls
19. Battle Of Gods
21. Granolah
22. Daima
23. Garlic Jr.
24. Resurrection F
25. Anoyoichi Budokai Tenkaichi
26. Super 17

[GreatSaiyaman123]

Spoiler:

Z, S and A tier are all mandatory stuff. The Pilaf-Tournament-Red Ribbon stretch of sagas establishes the core of what Dragon Ball is about. The Z tier stuff manages to surpass even that, everybody agrees these are the best sagas. While Toriyama was clearly past his peak when writing the Cell and Boo Sagas, they're just too iconic for me to place any lower.

Tien and Ma Jr are the weakest sagas of the original series and the only ones in A tier. Memes aside, Tenshinhan isn't a very good character and his fight with Goku is too one-sided. The 23rd Budokai is very good, but the ending is very forced. Goku and Piccolo are totally spent but still treated as the top dogs somehow.

B tier is stuff with a weaker story but the fights are still good, except for Baby that has a good-ish plot but meh fights. C and D are straight up bad, with D being outright offensive.

[ZombieVito]

Mine is probably something like this: