Ultra Instinct and Super Saiyan 4 = Super Saiyan 5?

[Yuji]

I've seen fans speculate they'll combine UI and SS4 as a way to canonize the old SS5 design, but on top of simply being aesthetically coherent, I was thinking that SS4 and UI may actually be pretty complementary forms. Since SS4 draws from the primal instinct of the Saiyans, and UI is all about moving without thinking or feeling. It would build upon Goku's arc in the Granolah arc about learning to use UI with his fighting nature and battle instinct.

I'm not sure if I'd necessarily like this form, but what do you guys think?

[JulieYBM]

Sure, why not. Just give me a good story and character arc for Gokuu that lewds to it. I wanna know how he changes to combine these two forms.

[Vegeta th3 4th]

Could they even do that legally without the original Ssj4 designer going after them ?

[Yuji]

Could they even do that legally without the original Ssj4 designer going after them ?

You can't copyright fanart.

[PrinceVegetto]

Could they even do that legally without the original Ssj4 designer going after them ?

Unless they copy it and make it identical, I don't thing there would be legal issues out of inspiration.

[PrinceVegetto]

Sure, why not. Just give me a good story and character arc for Gokuu that lewds to it. I wanna know how he changes to combine these two forms.

"lewds to it" ?

[JulieYBM]

Sure, why not. Just give me a good story and character arc for Gokuu that lewds to it. I wanna know how he changes to combine these two forms.

"lewds to it" ?

I tried to type 'lead' on my phone and it came out with a typo because of how close the 'w' and the 'a' keys are to one another.

[Mister_Popo]

I have always loved the fan art of SSJ5. Maximum Saiyan Instinct (SSJ4) combined with Ultra Instinct—it makes sense to create the ultimate Saiyan warrior. At first glance, the two forms may seem contradictory, but perhaps there is a way to achieve a kind of exceptional state or combat mode where the martial artist's body fights on its own while simultaneously harnessing the maximum zenkai Saiyan potential.

The seeds of this idea were indeed already planted at the beginning of the Granolah arc, during Goku’s training with Whis. Whis told him, "Ultra Instinct isn’t a one-size-fits-all technique. Each individual must adapt it to their own fighting style." This suggests that Goku should learn to bring out the full potential of Ultra Instinct in his own way, making it uniquely his. Perhaps the fusion of SSJ4 and MUI is the ultimate way for Goku to truly make Ultra Instinct his own.

[BernardoCairo]

I honestly don't like this idea much. It's very "fanficky". But I've seen many people online actually supporting it. It's interesting.
I would rather have Goku learn how to master Ultra Instinct in his base form.

[JulieYBM]

I honestly don't like this idea much. It's very "fanficky". But I've seen many people online actually supporting it. It's interesting.
I would rather have Goku learn how to master Ultra Instinct in his base form.

I don't think that 'fanficky' is much of an argument. Anything is going to feel like it's disconnected to the older produced stories at some point. One might as well focus on making a good story and justify from there.

That or we all just start talking about the original fiction we want to write, which goodness knows I could do all day lol.

[dbs fanboy]

Could they even do that legally without the original Ssj4 designer going after them ?

7 Palabras Esencia

Now outside of memeing Tablos is the artist behind that infamous ssj 5 design which I'm pretty sure is not even supposed to be Goku but an OC he made.

He used to be controversial a while ago in the spanish community and he really disliked Toyotaro, he felt that he never got credited enough for his own hand in inspiring the DbAF era, and well I guess seeing Toyotaro living the dream pissed him off (especially since he hated Super's overall tone).

But he actually ended up redeeming himself, and taking things less seriously, Toriyama's death really made him see things in a different way and he supports Toyotaro now (even drew something for him).

The design is just fan art but I guess he'd feel pretty honored about it, tho I'd understand if he wanted a shout out at least, too.

[Vegeta th3 4th]

He really disliked Toyotaro, he felt that he never got credited enough for his own hand in inspiring the DbAF era, and well I guess seeing Toyotaro living the dream pissed him off.

Toyotaro did get ahead by drawing a fan manga inspired by his design, so I can kind of understand why he'd be a bit pissed off.

[ZeroNeonix]

I could see it happening. As for the legality of it... It's Super Saiyan 4, but white instead of red. lol

What would they call this combination of powers? The obvious answer would be Ultra Instinct Super Saiyan 4, but just like Super Saiyan God Super Saiyan got shortened to Blue, I think they would come up with a shorter name for this, and it wouldn't be accurate to call it Super Saiyan 5. Maybe Super Saiyan Ultra?

[GurixDr34]

I personally believe that Ultra Instinct will not be the last transformation of Goku and if Dragon Ball lasts for many more years new transformations must exist a Super Saiyan 5 is possible for me obviously i would love to have a design similar to Super Saiyan 5 from AF made by the fans

[Almighty Majin]

I think it will probably be a form that combines SSJ4 and God Ki which ends up being the perfect conduit for Goku's brand of Ultra Instinct that will elevate it into Goku's ultimate transformation.

[fadeddreams5]

I like how we're jumping straight to Ultra Instinct. lol. Wasn't SSJB basically SSJG with SSJ1 stacked on top of it? Why were the other SSJ forms never stacked further?

And now we have UL, which has only been used in base, and people are talking about him using it on SSJ4? How about SSJ1 first? lol

This whole transformation line is a mess. One thing I loved about Daima was it going back to the basic chain of transformations. None of this god ki shit.

[Vegeta th3 4th]

Wasn't SSJB basically SSJG with SSJ1 stacked on top of it? Why were the other SSJ forms never stacked further?

And now we have UL, which has only been used in base, and people are talking about him using it on SSJ4? How about SSJ1 first? lol

This whole transformation line is a mess. One thing I loved about Daima was it going back to the basic chain of transformations. None of this god ki shit.

This whole stacking up forms on top of each other has really made a mess of things. Why wasn't Blue just SsjG 2 ? why make things unnecessarily complicated ? In the manga it seems like UI is stronger in Omen/base...maybe ? Daima definitely did up a favor by dropping all these forms and returning to Ssj4.

[fadeddreams5]

Wasn't SSJB basically SSJG with SSJ1 stacked on top of it? Why were the other SSJ forms never stacked further?

And now we have UL, which has only been used in base, and people are talking about him using it on SSJ4? How about SSJ1 first? lol

This whole transformation line is a mess. One thing I loved about Daima was it going back to the basic chain of transformations. None of this god ki shit.

This whole stacking up forms on top of each other has really made a mess of things. Why wasn't Blue just SsjG 2 ? why make things unnecessarily complicated ? In the manga it seems like UI is stronger in Omen/base...maybe ? Daima definitely did up a favor by dropping all these forms and returning to Ssj4.

Yeah, seriously. My only gripe with Daima's SSJ4 is I feel it should only be triggered if a SSJ3 powers up while looking into a full moon. That would have fixed a lot of problems while being consistent to the saiyan's roots.

[MisteryOne]

I like how we're jumping straight to Ultra Instinct. lol. Wasn't SSJB basically SSJG with SSJ1 stacked on top of it? Why were the other SSJ forms never stacked further?

And now we have UL, which has only been used in base, and people are talking about him using it on SSJ4? How about SSJ1 first? lol

This whole transformation line is a mess. One thing I loved about Daima was it going back to the basic chain of transformations. None of this god ki shit.

Goku has literally used all of his SS forms with UI in the Granolah arc except SS3...

DB fans never beating the allegations.

Wasn't SSJB basically SSJG with SSJ1 stacked on top of it? Why were the other SSJ forms never stacked further?

And now we have UL, which has only been used in base, and people are talking about him using it on SSJ4? How about SSJ1 first? lol

This whole transformation line is a mess. One thing I loved about Daima was it going back to the basic chain of transformations. None of this god ki shit.

This whole stacking up forms on top of each other has really made a mess of things. Why wasn't Blue just SsjG 2 ? why make things unnecessarily complicated ? In the manga it seems like UI is stronger in Omen/base...maybe ? Daima definitely did up a favor by dropping all these forms and returning to Ssj4.

Omen has never been stronger than proper UI. Please actually read what Goku did against Gas. His "True" UI is not Omen.

[fadeddreams5]

I like how we're jumping straight to Ultra Instinct. lol. Wasn't SSJB basically SSJG with SSJ1 stacked on top of it? Why were the other SSJ forms never stacked further?

And now we have UL, which has only been used in base, and people are talking about him using it on SSJ4? How about SSJ1 first? lol

This whole transformation line is a mess. One thing I loved about Daima was it going back to the basic chain of transformations. None of this god ki shit.

Goku has literally used all of his SS forms with UI in the Granolah arc except SS3...

1. He only used it with SSJG and SSJB, IIRC, not the regular chains of SSJ forms, which is where SSJ4 comes in.

2. He used the technique with those forms, but did not stack them with the UI form, which doesn't make any sense because now somehow UI is both a separate random form and a technique. OP mentioning SSJ5 is reference to the white hair, so he's referring to the idea of Goku being able to transform into his UI state while also in another form to make that form's hair white, which hasn't happened.