Goku's Power-level as a toddler

[Yasai9001]

Gohan has a visible tear in his clothing and also remarks how extraordinarly powerful Son Goku is upon meeting him for the first time; he likely didn't expect the child to be so powerful and he probably held back at first until he had to use his expertise knowledge in Martial Arts to defeat him.

Everyone for the longest believed that Goku as a baby had a power-level of 2 or so, and that is really plausible, actually. Being born with a very low powerlevel as an infant/newborn makes sense, but as he grows, his power-level has to grow as well, does it not? Despite being only three, Goku looks like he could be about five or six. Gohan doesn't look the least worried about Goku and his capabilities, but the scuff marks on his face and the tearing in his clothing suggests that Goku's power-level at this time is far greater than even the most athletic of Earthlings.

I believe if he really were to conquer Earth, Goku would be able to do it seamlessly as long as he relied solely on the full moon; it's apparent that in base form, at this stage, he isn't even remotely powerful enough to take on master artists like Son Gohan, Roshi, King Chappa, Nam, Korin, Tsuru-sennin, Tao Pai, Pai, etc.

How strong do you suppose Goku could be at this age? Son Gohan trained and raised Goku for another seven years before he died just two years before the beginning of Dragon Ball. Goku did bump his head after while and took Gohan's training, and proved strong enough to break a big ass rock and lift a car at the age of 12, nine years later after landing on Earth.

And while Martial Artists like Gohan and Roshi knew the absolute definition of holding back and could fight without using their full power (key examples would be Goku, Roshi, and Tien holding back in the 22nd Tenkaichi Budokai), there are no signs of Son Gohan and others being an absolute master of ki control, so I doubt Son Gohan would have been able to lower his ki/power-level all the way to the single digits (if you still believe Goku was that weak at the time).

I believe Goku as a toddler surpassed the power-level of "10" he was given at the beginning of the manga; it doesn't make sense when you take this "retcon" into consideration as well. How strong do you suppose Goku was when he first landed on Earth?

[Geridos]

Where is this scan from?

[ZombieVito]

Since this is a few years before the beginning of Dragon Ball. I have this Goku at 7.5. Way stronger than an ordinary adult so he could have easily caught Gohan off guard.

Where is this scan from?

Dragon Ball Minus.

[theherodjl]

It's important to remember that while ordinary humans don't possess Ki control, Goku did even as a toddler. As unlikely as it sounds, Goku with a PL of 2 was probably stronger than the Farmer with the shotgun on account of the Farmer not knowing how to actually make use of his PL, whether it be 5 points or merely 1.
I actually imagine that Yamcha was actually at 5 points himself at the beginning of the series, and that he could fully make use of his power level of 5 through training to use his Ki. As a result, Yamcha could strike Goku through a stone pillar, but still fell noticeably short of Goku's full PL of 10 and was overwhelmed in a hand to hand fight because of it.

[GreatSaiyaman123]

Yeah that puts to sleep the idea of Goku being a 10 when he’s 12. He’s probably a 10 right here as a three year old.

Power levels are essentially just number = your capacity to fight someone. Anything that says otherwise is just trying to justify bad writing from the modern material.

[Yasai9001]

Yeah that puts to sleep the idea of Goku being a 10 when he’s 12. He’s probably a 10 right here as a three year old.

Power levels are essentially just number = your capacity to fight someone. Anything that says otherwise is just trying to justify bad writing from the modern material.

Now, do you think it's possible for Son Gohan to be weaker than what he was alive than when he was in the otherworld, or is his power/ki more or less the same regardless?

[GreatSaiyaman123]

Now, do you think it's possible for Son Gohan to be weaker than what he was alive than when he was in the otherworld, or is his power/ki more or less the same regardless?

Freeza was rusty when first revived, so it's possible. Grandpa Gohan is quite strong when we see him though, so there shouldn't be much difference.

[Dr. Casey]

Toddler Goku being any kind of threat to Grandpa Gohan at all doesn't make much sense. Grandpa Gohan was a match for Goku after training with both Roshi and Korin, and in 1987, long before the proper introduction of the afterlife, I assume that Toriyama was thinking of the afterlife as just being like a religious afterlife rather than something of his own design. IE not a place for martial arts training and thus no stronger than he was in life. 3 year old Goku shouldn't have been any more of a challenge than any other 3 year old.

[Yasai9001]

Toddler Goku being any kind of threat to Grandpa Gohan at all doesn't make much sense. Grandpa Gohan was a match for Goku after training with both Roshi and Korin, and in 1987, long before the proper introduction of the afterlife, I assume that Toriyama was thinking of the afterlife as just being like a religious afterlife rather than something of his own design. IE not a place for martial arts training and thus no stronger than he was in life. 3 year old Goku shouldn't have been any more of a challenge than any other 3 year old.

Goku was never a threat to Son Gohan because of the fact that the old man said if he was never a Martial Artist expert, he would have been in big trouble; that alone at least implies that Gohan was holding himself back significantly and Goku just happened to catch him by surprise; it took for him to whip out the old janken or something to take Goku down lol. I see a three old Goku being able to kill the likes of The Farmer, Commander Red, General White, Violet, Bruce Lee dude, etc. Those people who don't necessarily have Martial Arts skills, truly.

Bardock felt that Goku would have managed to survive there on his own - I reckon that an Oozaru three year old toddler Goku couldn't be dealt with by anyone - anyone besides perhaps Kami.

[PhantomSaiyan]

3 year old Goku shouldn't have been any more of a challenge than any other 3 year old.

No, while it makes sense that grandpa gohan is obviously stronger than 3 year old goku since he's a martial artist, I absolutely do not think that a saiyan 3 year old could be compared to a human 3 year old, even if he is low class and all.

[Dr. Casey]

3 year old Goku shouldn't have been any more of a challenge than any other 3 year old.

No, while it makes sense that grandpa gohan is obviously stronger than 3 year old goku since he's a martial artist, I absolutely do not think that a saiyan 3 year old could be compared to a human 3 year old, even if he is low class and all.

And I didn't say that. I didn't mean that Goku would be as weak as a human 3 year old, just that both would be equally harmless to Grandpa Gohan. Like how Goku was obviously much stronger than Krillin or Yamcha during the 22nd Budokai and Piccolo Daimao arcs, but they would have all been equally incapable of fighting Kami since he was able to just easily flick Goku away. Or in real world terms, a five year old is stronger than a two year old, but an adult wouldn't really have to exert any more effort against the five year old because their strength is basically equalized to zero in comparison.

I haven't read Minus though so I'm just going by how things were portrayed and likely intended in the original series.

[PhantomSaiyan]

3 year old Goku shouldn't have been any more of a challenge than any other 3 year old.

No, while it makes sense that grandpa gohan is obviously stronger than 3 year old goku since he's a martial artist, I absolutely do not think that a saiyan 3 year old could be compared to a human 3 year old, even if he is low class and all.

And I didn't say that. I didn't mean that Goku would be as weak as a human 3 year old, just that both would be equally harmless to Grandpa Gohan. Like how Goku was obviously much stronger than Krillin or Yamcha during the 22nd Budokai and Piccolo Daimao arcs, but they would have all been equally incapable of fighting Kami since he was able to just easily flick Goku away. Or in real world terms, a five year old is stronger than a two year old, but an adult wouldn't really have to exert any more effort against the five year old because their strength is basically equalized to zero in comparison.

I haven't read Minus though so I'm just going by how things were portrayed and likely intended in the original series.

Oh ok then my bad, I misunderstood, then I agree with you, I doubt he posed a serious challenge to Grandpa Gohan regardless. At most he caught him by surprise and damaged his clothes a little like in the db minus panel but nothing that Gohan couldn't handle

[Yasai9001]

No, while it makes sense that grandpa gohan is obviously stronger than 3 year old goku since he's a martial artist, I absolutely do not think that a saiyan 3 year old could be compared to a human 3 year old, even if he is low class and all.

And I didn't say that. I didn't mean that Goku would be as weak as a human 3 year old, just that both would be equally harmless to Grandpa Gohan. Like how Goku was obviously much stronger than Krillin or Yamcha during the 22nd Budokai and Piccolo Daimao arcs, but they would have all been equally incapable of fighting Kami since he was able to just easily flick Goku away. Or in real world terms, a five year old is stronger than a two year old, but an adult wouldn't really have to exert any more effort against the five year old because their strength is basically equalized to zero in comparison.

I haven't read Minus though so I'm just going by how things were portrayed and likely intended in the original series.

Oh ok then my bad, I misunderstood, then I agree with you, I doubt he posed a serious challenge to Grandpa Gohan regardless. At most he caught him by surprise and damaged his clothes a little like in the db minus panel but nothing that Gohan couldn't handle

Do you think judging by Goku's ability to surprise Grandpa Gohan alone that he would be able to handle most of regular people who aren't experts in Martial Arts? Like I said earlier, I don't believe he would be able to take on people like King Chappa, Nam, Roshi, Tao, etc etc, but I feel like Goku would give the students of Orin temple a run for their money and could hurt them or even the best of Earthling athletes who aren't superhuman if that makes sense.

[PhantomSaiyan]

And I didn't say that. I didn't mean that Goku would be as weak as a human 3 year old, just that both would be equally harmless to Grandpa Gohan. Like how Goku was obviously much stronger than Krillin or Yamcha during the 22nd Budokai and Piccolo Daimao arcs, but they would have all been equally incapable of fighting Kami since he was able to just easily flick Goku away. Or in real world terms, a five year old is stronger than a two year old, but an adult wouldn't really have to exert any more effort against the five year old because their strength is basically equalized to zero in comparison.

I haven't read Minus though so I'm just going by how things were portrayed and likely intended in the original series.

Oh ok then my bad, I misunderstood, then I agree with you, I doubt he posed a serious challenge to Grandpa Gohan regardless. At most he caught him by surprise and damaged his clothes a little like in the db minus panel but nothing that Gohan couldn't handle

Do you think judging by Goku's ability to surprise Grandpa Gohan alone that he would be able to handle most of regular people who aren't experts in Martial Arts? Like I said earlier, I don't believe he would be able to take on people like King Chappa, Nam, Roshi, Tao, etc etc, but I feel like Goku would give the students of Orin temple a run for their money and could hurt them or even the best of Earthling athletes who aren't superhuman if that makes sense.

Yeah for sure, I don't see regular humans being able to do anything against 3 year old goku, like I've said in my other comment, I see him as much stronger than an average earthling.

[dragon boss z]

Probably between 5-10. I don't think you can get a more accurate answer than this.

[Yasai9001]

Probably between 5-10. I don't think you can get a more accurate answer than this.

So, you think that Goku, having a power-level of 5 around this age, would have managed to survive a deep fall into a ravine? I understand Saiyans are supposed to be built different, but if Goku were to get shot, he'd die. If Son Gohan were to get shot when he was a kid in the Saiyan Arc before Raditz, he'd bleed out. I don't know. I can't even see it being just ten, to be honest.

[Dr. Casey]

I always assumed that Goku surviving his fall into the ravine was just good luck rather than anything related to strength, and that he'd probably die 8 or 9 times out of 10.

[Yasai9001]

I always assumed that Goku surviving his fall into the ravine was just good luck rather than anything related to strength, and that he'd probably die 8 or 9 times out of 10.

I bet Bardock's wish on Cereal had something to do with that, lmfao