Was it a mistake to continue after the manga ended ?

[Vegeta th3 4th]

Dragon Ball as a story has continued far longer than Toriyama ever intended it to back when he concluded the story in 1995. Up to that point, we had a 520 chapter manga, two anime adaptions (DB & Z) made up of 444 episodes, 17 movies, 2 TV specials, and an OVA. Following the conclusion of the original manga and its anime adaption, we got GT which was made up of 64 episodes + a TV special. We then got 2 new OVAs, 4 new movies, Super's 131 episodes as well as its 104 chapter manga, and recently a 20 episode mini series. There was also the Heroes Web anime that lasted a little over 50 episodes and Kai which lasted for 160 or so episodes.

The original series, be it the manga or its two anime adaptions (DB & Z) are beloved classics. Everything after that starting with GT all the way up to Daima have received mostly mixed to negative reactions for various reasons. Should Toriyama and Toei have called it a day following the release of Dragon Ball's 520th chapter, Z's 291st episode, and the franchise's 17th movie ? I'm speaking purely from an artistic point of view, not a financial one.

[JulieYBM]

Commercial art isn't sacred and Dragon Ball (1984) doesn't stop being a big, seminal work just because new projects are crafted. If you don’t like something, ignore it.

[MasenkoHA]

I'm gonna be a bit pedantic here but the 17th Dragon Ball movie was Path to Power which came out about a month into GT airing and I know it gets grouped with the og Dragon Ball movies, but is is functionally a GT movie if we're being real. GT's initial head writer wrote the screenplay, the score was composed by GT's composer the ending song is GT's opening, and they quickly get Goku into his GT gi for brand synergy. In a hypothetical world where nothing is made after the Z anime wraps up where the manga did there would be no 17th Dragon Ball movie either.

I wouldn't say it was a mistake. GT brought in enough worthwhile stuff even if the series as a whole...wasn't good. A gorgeous 10th anniversary film celebrating the series beginning in the GT style, a new Super Saiyan form that is well regarded by most of the fandom, and an ending for fans who didn't like the manga's ending.

It's just as easy to ignore the stuff we don't like. Super, Daima, ane GT in their worst moments don't tarnish the first two series.

[Dragon Ball Ireland]

No, because you can just easily ignore all the post-manga/Z content if you don't want it, but a lot of fans like it, I like a good bit myself, and as pointed out while not all aspects of GT, Super, Daima and the movies since 1995 are perfect there's enough enjoyable moments to make them worthwhile.

I'm just grateful for all the Dragon Ball we have and the fact people can pick and choose all the supplementary material if they want more. If you don't, just consume everything from 1984-1995 and call it a day, I have no problem with that being anyone's preference.

[SupremeKai25]

NOPE, because the Future Trunks saga and Tournament of Power saga are my favourite in all of Dragon Ball.

Your idea sounds terrible. I'd be deprived of my fun.

[Vegeta th3 4th]

The 17th Dragon Ball movie Path to Power is functionally a GT movie if we're being real.

The movie would've gone into production well before GT was even thought up, so it was scheduled to release whether or not the series continued after Z. The movie was also made to celebrate the anime's 10th anniversary at the time, not market or be part of a series that didn't exist yet. As for the art style, I wouldn't be surprised if it was GT that copied the movie's, not the other way around. I'm not saying this is a negative against GT, but rather to point out that the movie was in production before GT was. With that said, I'm not too familiar with the process of the franchise's older movies, so if anyone is more knowledgeable I'd appreciate being corrected if what I said was wrong.

No, because you can just easily ignore all the post-manga/Z content if you don't want it, but a lot of fans like it, I like a good bit myself, and as pointed out while not all aspects of GT, Super, Daima and the movies since 1995 are perfect there's enough enjoyable moments to make them worthwhile.

There are many aspects of the post-Buu arc era that I like myself (GT's concepts, Battle of, Daima, etc...), but I can't help but wonder how the franchise would be viewed artistically if it stuck to the original run.

[90sDBZ]

There are many aspects of the post-Buu arc era that I like myself (GT's concepts, Battle of, Daima, etc...), but I can't help but wonder how the franchise would be viewed artistically if it stuck to the original run.

I don't think it would make much difference to how its viewed artistically.

Most people primarily still think of Z when they think of this franchise. Most of them love Z, and nothing about any of the sequels detracts from that, as they're optional.

Even if Z was the end, you'd still have people who thought Frieza or Cell should've been the end from an artistic standpoint.

I personally enjoy GT, Super, and Daima to varying extents, and I'm glad all 3 exist as options.

[Goe]

Speaking purely from an artistic point of view, not a financial one, I think it was a mistake.

Original manga from 1984 to 1995, and its loyal anime adaptation were successful because it was an inteinsecally good products.

Post-Z stuff hasn't been as sucessful as older DB stuff and its success is from people who enjoyed pre-GT stuff before. DB can be classified in this categories:

A) they like GT, Super and Daima
B) they don't like GT, Super and Daima
C) they like GT but not Super, and Daima may like it or not
D) they like Super but not GT, and Daima may like it or not.

And "don't like" is sometimes "hate". However, all of them like DB and DBZ.

Old manga already has plot inconsitences, but they are bigger now, being the most clear case the SSJGOD/SSJ4 issue.

[Vegeta th3 4th]

I think the biggest issue that has faced Dragon Ball since 1995 is the loss of the Toriyama/editor/producer dynamic that brought the original manga and its anime adaption to life. Although Toriyama was the captain of the ship, his editors were vital in pushing him to be the best writer he could be. Freeza for example would not have been a thing without his editors. The anime's producers also played an important role in expanding and fleshing out the world through "filler" and movies, both of which Toriyama was involved with. They also weren't afraid to make changes to the manga's content when they felt it needed it. Despite getting 3 new series (4 if you count Heroes) since Z ended, they never managed to replicate that unique team that brought Dragon Ball to life in the first place.

[MasenkoHA]

The 17th Dragon Ball movie Path to Power is functionally a GT movie if we're being real.

The movie would've gone into production well before GT was even thought up, so it was scheduled to release whether or not the series continued after Z. The movie was also made to celebrate the anime's 10th anniversary at the time, not market or be part of a series that didn't exist yet. As for the art style, I wouldn't be surprised if it was GT that copied the movie's, not the other way around. I'm not saying this is a negative against GT, but rather to point out that the movie was in production before GT was. With that said, I'm not too familiar with the process of the franchise's older movies, so if anyone is more knowledgeable I'd appreciate being corrected if what I said was wrong.

[.

Huh? They didn't just conceive and plan GT in a week. There's no reason to think Path to Power was in production way before GT when it uses most of the exact same assets as GT. It just would not exist the way it did if GT wasn't a thing and probably wouldn't exist at all if they had no intention to continue the franchise past Z episode 291.

[GokuHater]

Given business and merchandise, this was far from anything but a success

Toei made a lot of money with the new material and all of this has been a commercial success.

However when looking at it from a story or world consistency I am not really sure.

On one hand more DB is better and so far modern DB didn't really release anything THIS CATASTROPHIC that would make the entire Dragon Ball renesance a mistake.

Off course there are many things that I hate in modern DB (Goku's character, wasted potential, overall chaos in production, which saga is where) but if I had to choose, I wouldn't get rid of the new stories... Just maybe... Fix them. I believe manga did and does a lot better job with modern DB.

As for GT, it's a different fish altogether. I mean it started airing right after Z so for a lot of people I think at the time it was just a continuation, not a part of "later added stories".
Now off course we know more but still there is a lot of time after the conclusive end of GT and before BoG.

[Vegeta th3 4th]

It just would not exist the way it did if GT wasn't a thing

We don't know whether or not the movie or GT was in production first, which means we don't know for sure which was the first to use that new art style.

probably wouldn't exist at all if they had no intention to continue the franchise past Z episode 291.

The movie had nothing to do with the franchise's future, but rather its past. It was literally made to celebrate the anime running continuously for 10 years.

So far modern DB didn't really release anything THIS CATASTROPHIC that would make the entire Dragon Ball renesance a mistake.

Super's movie arcs and GT's Black Star arc definitely count as catastrophic. Of course both series bounced back with the Baby and Zamasu arcs, but they honestly never fully recovered from such rough beginnings.

[GokuHater]

I agree that Super retellings arcs are the worst of DB whatever has given us - bad animation, bad pacing, bad story and overall bad idea.

If such quality would be a staple of Super it would be catastrophic but there are also arcs just like you said which bump the quality enough to - so to say - justify it's existence.
U6 is very meh but a masterpiece in comparison to rettelings, Zamasu and ToP are also bit meh but okay and the manga arcs I quite enjoy.

As for GT Black Star , I don't agree that it's as much as catastrophic. It is also very meh and doesn't really need to exist but for Dragon Ball I've seen a lot worse. I don't have a feeling of wanting to run away when looking at it which I surely have when looking at Super 17, Super rettelings, purple Vegeta or pieces of ToP.

[90sDBZ]

It's interesting that people have different opinions on exactly when/if the franchise jumped the shark.

While I personally love the Buu arc and prefer it to Cell, a lot of people feel the opposite way and consider it a step too far artistically.

To get even more specific there's a lot of differing opinions on exactly how the Buu arc should've ended. Some say Mystic Gohan should've defeated Buu, others say Vegeta's sacrifice should've done it, while others only wanted to see the 25th Tournament play out. There's also many who dislike Z's ending, and consider GT's to be better despite that shows flaws.

Toriyama himself also wanted to end the story on several occasions, and never had a long term plan.

Given all this, it almost feels arbitrary to say with certainty that GT was a step too far. For everyone who hates the Black Star arc there's someone who loves the Baby arc and SS4.

Same with Super. For everyone who hates the retellings, there's someone who loves the Black arc and ToP. Super Saiyan Blue felt like an asspull, but Ultra Instinct actually made sense and is rightfully well regarded.

[JulieYBM]

I'm still trying to chew on this thought, but I do think that fandom gets really caught up in these big questions an just tangles itself up in trying to justify things without just looking for a more simple and expedient path. As someone both likes and dislikes work that include parts of the original 1984 comic, adaptions made during and after the original serialization of said comic, and even works made now upwards of 40 years later, I just really don't see why we can't just have a more flexible view towards the validity of stuff.

I really don't think that it's a mistake to make more of an inocuous art like Dragon Ball, but I do think that the many decisions that make up a finished product are going to be worthy of criticism.

Basically, I don't think we should really be treating works based on the 1984 comic series as any less worthy of respect simply for existing.

[CodeOfMe]

This is a very simple question. If you like GT/Super/Daima, then it wasn't a mistake. If you don't, it was a mistake. No one will be able to come to an "objective" conclusion here. If we're only taking into account the artistic value and not the financial value, then there will be no clear answer, as everyone will have differing opinions. Personally, I don't care all too much about what has come out since the original manga's conclusion, some things I think are bad, some I think are mediocre, and some I think are good. All in all, I wouldn't say it was a mistake; even if all of the future Dragon Ball products are terrible, I can just ignore them and go watch/read literally anything else — Dragon Ball isn't some sacred franchise to me, it's just one I enjoy a fair amount.

[Neo-Makaiōshin]

There are many aspects of the post-Buu arc era that I like myself (GT's concepts, Battle of, Daima, etc...), but I can't help but wonder how the franchise would be viewed artistically if it stuck to the original run.

This always bothers me whenever it's brought up, why do you care how others view Dragon Ball artistically instead how YOU view it? Is your liking of DB really dependant on how it's viewed by others?

[Vegeta th3 4th]

Is your liking of DB really dependent on how it's viewed by others?

Of course not, but there's no harm in wondering how the franchise's overall reputation would be today if it ended when Toriyama originally walked away from it.

[JulieYBM]

I think that caring about the legacy of a commercial work is honestly a fool's errand. At the end of the day, there's going to be something that means something to everyone and trying to submit one's own preferred era of a franchise as more important is a weird sort of competition that I just don't find healthy for the individual or the community.

[Saiya6Cit]

No. It was not a mistake.

Manga was a type of production that was massively conssumed by Japan's youth at a time when the internet did not exist and weekly magazines or mangas were the only way to conssume specialized content/art. Many things have changed ever since.

There's a tendency among the current youth to owe stuff digitally rather than physically and the technology to draw has moved to digital since over one decade ago. Now there is even the AI and way too many independant creators which is why, in my opinion, manga as it was in tge 80s and 90s is an industry as death as kodak films for pictures when the digital camera became afordable.

Dragon Ball is so good it must continue and survive a death industry, which is why Daima's success is so important for the franchise. If you truly love Dragon Ball and/or your income depends on DB's success, you should be supporting DB Daima.

For some others new DB means carddass or videogames or Super. Or even digital fanmangas. Whatever keeps my favorite characters alive in the hearts of many is worthy of checking it out. As long as the content respects the characters and the audience's intelligence, I have no problem with any new DB content. It does not mean I will support anything either. It mus be a quality product.

I would love to see more DB Daima, even if would be only movies.