Unpopular DB opinions

[Vice]

It's literally Piccolo's outfit exactly

[Jord]

I have a great amount of nostalgia for the dub in the 90s and early 00s. I don't think the dub is good but thinking about it does take me back 25+ years. It gives me a warm feeling.

I rewatched the Ocean dub Saiyan saga recently. While the translation and censorship are obviously not the best, the acting and even the Ocean score mostly hold up. To me, it's a cool alternative for the Japanese dub.

[FinalForumPodcast]

I have a great amount of nostalgia for the dub in the 90s and early 00s. I don't think the dub is good but thinking about it does take me back 25+ years. It gives me a warm feeling.

I rewatched the Ocean dub Saiyan saga recently. While the translation and censorship are obviously not the best, the acting and even the Ocean score mostly hold up. To me, it's a cool alternative for the Japanese dub.

I understand it can't happen because of how heavily edited the episodes were, but would that I could watch the Ocean Dub within the uncensored episodes.

I know the Japanese original is the best version, and I have watched the series that way....but I often hit up the dubs because I throw on Dragon Ball while doing laundry or cleaning or cooking or something and the performances in the Saiyan and Namek saga Ocean dub are so much better than the Funi dub versions

[Hugo Boss]

Because he literally wears it in the manga version of the Tournament of Power & in Super Hero? Did you not read what I wrote?

It's not exactly the same outfit. The early Buu saga one is Gohan's personalized version, the belt is different, it's red and loose, the shoes and the little white thing on top (idk what it's called) are different, it's the first outfit that's unique to him.

In the Manga ToP it's just Piccolo's exact outfit, and in Super Hero it's still Piccolo's outfit with the only difference being black wristbands, but the rest is 100% Piccolo's outfit.

I’d also add that Gohan’s early Buu arc outfit in the movie and TV anime was very reminiscent of Chi-Chi’s outfit from the 23rd Budokai. Even more interesting, the manga colors of that outfit resemble another one Chi-Chi wore during the Namek arc. So, while it’s definitely a unique outfit for Gohan, it also carries some subtle visual callbacks to his mother’s designs.

[MasenkoHA]

I have a great amount of nostalgia for the dub in the 90s and early 00s. I don't think the dub is good but thinking about it does take me back 25+ years. It gives me a warm feeling.

I rewatched the Ocean dub Saiyan saga recently. While the translation and censorship are obviously not the best, the acting and even the Ocean score mostly hold up. To me, it's a cool alternative for the Japanese dub.

I understand it can't happen because of how heavily edited the episodes were, but would that I could watch the Ocean Dub within the uncensored episodes.

I know the Japanese original is the best version, and I have watched the series that way....but I often hit up the dubs because I throw on Dragon Ball while doing laundry or cleaning or cooking or something and the performances in the Saiyan and Namek saga Ocean dub are so much better than the Funi dub versions

There was an “uncensored” version of the Funi/Ocean dub that used to float around the Internet. It still maintained all the cuts and scenes that were moved around but the retained footage was uncensored i.e you see the blood, no impact stars, you see Guldo decapitated etc. I believe it was just the Dragon Box footage synced up to the Ocean dub aside from the OP, ED and eyecatches

Probably not exactly what you’re looking for but it was kind of cool to watch

[FinalForumPodcast]

I rewatched the Ocean dub Saiyan saga recently. While the translation and censorship are obviously not the best, the acting and even the Ocean score mostly hold up. To me, it's a cool alternative for the Japanese dub.

I understand it can't happen because of how heavily edited the episodes were, but would that I could watch the Ocean Dub within the uncensored episodes.

I know the Japanese original is the best version, and I have watched the series that way....but I often hit up the dubs because I throw on Dragon Ball while doing laundry or cleaning or cooking or something and the performances in the Saiyan and Namek saga Ocean dub are so much better than the Funi dub versions

There was an “uncensored” version of the Funi/Ocean dub that used to float around the Internet. It still maintained all the cuts and scenes that were moved around but the retained footage was uncensored i.e you see the blood, no impact stars, you see Guldo decapitated etc. I believe it was just the Dragon Box footage synced up to the Ocean dub aside from the OP, ED and eyecatches

Probably not exactly what you’re looking for but it was kind of cool to watch

Yeah I watched that at some point over the years. Like you said, I'm more referring to just wanting the episode counts and filler and whatnot to have been retained.


I've lost a LITTLE nostalgia for the Ocean dub because the last time I watched that through (10-? years ago) I found most of the music REALLY sub-par (I had last seen the Ocean dub stuff on TV however long before THAT, so I was foolishly expecting the Faulconer-team music), but the performances are so tied to my memories of those scenes...especially Drummond's rage moments.

Ultimately, my personal perfect Dragon Ball is a horrifying Frankenstein that would cause most fans to run away blathering in fear about how inconsistent it is...but I just can't help the things I prefer

[dragonballhero]

For the record, I do enjoy GT's JP intro. Like, I don't hate (or even dislike it), but I never felt like it was meant for DB.

Frankly, it always felt like a Sailor Moon insert song just didn't make the cut for whatever reason.

[Noah]

This might be just a bit unpopular but I prefer Daima's ending "NAKAMA" over the opening "Jaka Jaan".

I wish he could've gotten his adult body back after the first arc of GT. Ssj4 temporarily gives it back, but not in the way I'd want (would prefer if ssj4 somehow permanently negated the wish's effects and when he drops back to base he's an adult again).

I already asked some friends about it, but do you guys feel like if this was done, it would vastly improve your enjoyment of watching GT, or just a little?

[Vegeta th3 4th]

I already asked some friends about it, but do you guys feel like if this was done, it would vastly improve your enjoyment of watching GT, or just a little?

It wouldn't have fixed the fundamental flaws with GT's writing. It would've been better, but not by much.

[Scsigs]

I wish he could've gotten his adult body back after the first arc of GT. Ssj4 temporarily gives it back, but not in the way I'd want (would prefer if ssj4 somehow permanently negated the wish's effects and when he drops back to base he's an adult again).

I already asked some friends about it, but do you guys feel like if this was done, it would vastly improve your enjoyment of watching GT, or just a little?

Thinking about it with almost 30 years of hindsight, I think it should've happened. The whole point of going out in space to find the Black Star Dragon Balls besides getting them back to Earth so it doesn't blow up was to get Goku's adult body back (because I guess they couldn't use the regular or Namekian Dragon Balls for that?). It'd be a way of showing progression in the plot by having things come full circle. Then the next arc can then begin with a slight reset on Goku's age because I'm not gonna lie, the reason they went to space kinda gets lost with the Baby stuff hijacking the plot, so it'd be a good ending for it. Full circle kind of thing. I mean, if part of the reason Goku went SS4 was to give him an adult body again, then restoring his true age would do the same thing, but permanently. And he'd still be able to access the form, so it'd be a win-win.

[MasenkoHA]

I wish he could've gotten his adult body back after the first arc of GT. Ssj4 temporarily gives it back, but not in the way I'd want (would prefer if ssj4 somehow permanently negated the wish's effects and when he drops back to base he's an adult again).

I already asked some friends about it, but do you guys feel like if this was done, it would vastly improve your enjoyment of watching GT, or just a little?

Thinking about it with almost 30 years of hindsight, I think it should've happened. The whole point of going out in space to find the Black Star Dragon Balls besides getting them back to Earth so it doesn't blow up was to get Goku's adult body back (because I guess they couldn't use the regular or Namekian Dragon Balls for that?). It'd be a way of showing progression in the plot by having things come full circle. Then the next arc can then begin with a slight reset on Goku's age because I'm not gonna lie, the reason they went to space kinda gets lost with the Baby stuff hijacking the plot, so it'd be a good ending for it. Full circle kind of thing. I mean, if part of the reason Goku went SS4 was to give him an adult body again, then restoring his true age would do the same thing, but permanently. And he'd still be able to access the form, so it'd be a win-win.

Goku was pretty nonchalant with being a kid again. The whole point of getting the black stars balls back was so the earth wouldn’t blow up they weren’t going to use them to wish Goku back to his adult body, they couldn’t make a wish on those balls because of the whole planet go boom thing.

Anyways there wasn’t much of a reason to keep Goku in his kid body when the “we wanted to nerf him” excuse ran dry pretty fast and the show moved away from being early Dragon Ball in space but I guess Toei felt a status quo for GT had been set and they didn’t want to move away from that. I don’t think Goku becoming an adult again would have made GT any better or worse.

[Hellspawn28]

Goku being in adult in a kids body is fine for a while, but not for the whole show. The idea that Chi Chi is married to a child makes me feel icky.

[Mystic-han]

Bulma shouldn't give up smoking

[JulieYBM]

Bulma shouldn't give up smoking

Each scene of smoking should be telling us how bad smoking is for you lol

[90sDBZ]

Despite its issues, Kai is a solid product that is very much a valid way to experience DBZ.

I've come to appreciate it more and more over the years. Is it 100% accurate to the Manga? Of course not. And it doesn't need to be.

It succeeds in one crucial area; it drastically improves the pacing of a show that had severe pacing issues, and makes it way more accessible to newcomers. That alone is more than enough to justify its existence.

Some will say just read the Manga if you want better pacing. While this is a fair point, you'd still be missing out on voice acting, music, and animated fight scenes. And many prefer watching a show to having to read.

Another unpopular opinion; I like the Sumitomo score in the Buu arc. I've always liked the Faulconer score and certain parts of Kikuchi's. Sumitomo (similar to Yamamoto) is like a nice middle ground between the 2 very different scores.

[Vegeta th3 4th]

Despite its issues, Kai is a solid product that is very much a valid way to experience DBZ.

I think a Kai version of both DB & Z is needed in this day and age of fast paced anime, however the Kai we have got too many things wrong for me to recommend it over Z. The biggest issue I have with Kai is its lack of vision; they didn't know what they wanted it to be. The Saiyan arc was very close to the manga, while the Freeza and Cell arcs slowed down a bit, then finally the Buu arc just stopped trying after the initial 20 episodes and was just Z 2.0.

[MasenkoHA]

I’ve seen the argument there’s is really not much of a difference between Kai and what Funimation and Saban originally did to Z for the first two seasons. I agree but at least there’s sort of the pretense of being closer to the manga for the first series. They fail in the literal first second and over half the first episode is stuff that wasn’t in the manga, but at least you get the idea the editor was using the manga as a guide.

Buu Kai though? It’s just the Toei version of the Funi/Saban dub. Censorship, edited down not to be closer to the manga (at least half the filler is kept including episodes that are 100 percent filler ) but just to reduce the episode count and a modern replacement score. Oh also it’s cropped to widescreen and has the picture ruined with a green filter over it so it’s also weirdly Toei’s answer to the Orange Bricks.


The first Kai could have been salvaged if it wasn’t censored (excluding child peen and the strobing light effects) and was more artistic with how it implemented the Kikichi score but Buu Kai was just fundamentally shit.

[Dragon Ball Ireland]

I have a lot of fondness for Kai myself. Sometimes because of lack of free time and need for better pacing you just want to watch 167 episodes instead of 291.

I even enjoy The Final Chapters although some of Sumitomo's tracks can be jarring at times I always find a couple gems here and there. Hell I hardly even notice the green tint or cropping most of the time.

The only real issue I have with Kai, other than the Saiyan arc maybe being too quick is the lack of availability of Ocean's dub because I grew up a fan of that cast. With Z I have the choice between the Funimation and Ocean casts, but with Kai sadly I can only watch the former.

I also find the Tom Keenlyside, John Mitchell and David Iris score from the Westwood dub to be incredibly underrated. That to me is the score you want if your looking for a halfway point between the slow burn of Shunsuke Kikuchi and the heavy hitting Faulconer Productions. There's plenty of cool, ambient themes in there, but also some nice guitar riffs as well. I'd love to hear what tracks were used for Kai too as an alternative to Kenji Yamamoto.

[Vegeta th3 4th]

Buu Kai though? It’s just the Toei version of the Funi/Saban dub. Censorship, edited down not to be closer to the manga (at least half the filler is kept including episodes that are 100 percent filler ) but just to reduce the episode count and a modern replacement score. Oh also it’s cropped to widescreen and has the picture ruined with a green filter over it so it’s also weirdly Toei’s answer to the Orange Bricks.

Here's an interesting piece of info regarding Kai's Buu arc: Masako Nozawa said its episode count would be in the 40s, so initially it seems like the plan was for it to line up with Kai 1.0's pacing. Something happened mid-way through production that resulted in us getting that nonsensical 69 episode count that we have.

[Scsigs]

Despite its issues, Kai is a solid product that is very much a valid way to experience DBZ.

I've come to appreciate it more and more over the years. Is it 100% accurate to the Manga? Of course not. And it doesn't need to be.

It succeeds in one crucial area; it drastically improves the pacing of a show that had severe pacing issues, and makes it way more accessible to newcomers. That alone is more than enough to justify its existence.

Some will say just read the Manga if you want better pacing. While this is a fair point, you'd still be missing out on voice acting, music, and animated fight scenes. And many prefer watching a show to having to read.

For me, Kai is the only way to watch Z, especially if you wanna watch an English dub of the show. I argue that Crunchyroll & Toei should just fork out the money to redub Z entirely with better, more accurate scripts & the current cast since they fast-tracked the dub of One Piece after Crunchyroll absorbed FUNimation, but I know that's a pipe dream. The original DB could also use a more accurate redub, as could most of the movies & especially the 2 Z TV specials (that have horrible scripts & really bad voice acting & direction if you want a Kai-level dub). They don't even have to get rid of the old dubs, just keep them as alternate audio tracks on the home releases.

I can't stand watching Z's slower pacing in the handful of episodes I've watched from before Buu & it's not because of attention span issues. There's just...not a lot going on that's interesting in the added content for me & the episodes were deliberately slower-paced so they wouldn't catch up to the manga. It's to the point where even if you cut all of the episodes that are wholly filler, I don't think I could watch it start to finish without getting extremely bored waiting for the next big thing to happen from the manga.

Not to mention the Z English dub is extremely embarrassing nowadays & hasn't aged well. Additional lines that don't add anything of value, mistranslations, changes to the dialogue that changed characterizations, bad voice acting & ADR direction, etc. If this dub came out new today, there'd be a lot of people flaming it for all of these problems. Nostalgia is a hell of a drug. The only reason that dub was as popular as it was is because most fans of it were kids who didn't know better. Had the Z dub been better from the start, no one would be having arguments about if the dub was ever good, or holds up online.

I think a Kai version of both DB & Z is needed in this day and age of fast paced anime, however the Kai we have got too many things wrong for me to recommend it over Z. The biggest issue I have with Kai is its lack of vision; they didn't know what they wanted it to be. The Saiyan arc was very close to the manga, while the Freeza and Cell arcs slowed down a bit, then finally the Buu arc just stopped trying after the initial 20 episodes and was just Z 2.0.

I'm pretty sure they knew what they wanted Kai to be for the first 98 episodes. A refreshed version of Z that cut out as much filler as possible to better match the pacing of the manga. And Toei wanted to do it on the cheap because they didn't wanna spend money making a remake anime of it for some reason. Now, I haven't read much of the manga yet (planning to soon), but the earliest episodes of Kai felt a bit jarring trying to do that. You can tell where they cut shots that were originally in Z to make the pace faster & match the manga. I have the full color volumes Viz released, then gave up on & lied that they were gonna get back to for some reason & flipped through the first volume of the Saiyan Arc when rewatching the earliest episodes of Kai & it literally looks like an amateur recut that does nothing but leave in the scenes directly adapted from the manga regardless of how jarring it may be where the cuts are. When you're watching through the show without comparing to the manga, it's not as noticeable, but when you know what to look for, it can.

As for what you say with Freeza & Cell slowing down, the arcs legitimately got longer as Toriyama went along in the manga, so it makes sense that the anime arcs also got longer. It may also be that they left in certain things not in the manga, but the Z anime had added that extended the runtime of a particular episode, or left the pacing of some scenes the same as they originally were. I'd need to directly compare to the manga to know for sure.

As for Buu, no idea what exactly happened with it. They removed over 20 episodes' worth of material that wasn't in the manga (a mix of early filler episodes based around Gohan's high school life & later, smaller scenes that added nothing other than runtime & weren't that entertaining, imo). However, they definitely could've removed even more material to make it shorter. In Japan, they removed several more episodes worth of material & sped up other scenes still left in to get into the meat of the arc more quickly for some reason, which was a bit weird. However, it has places where it felt rushed. The green tint, the not saving 4:3 versions of the episodes like Q-Tec did, & Sumitomo's...really weird choices for music placements at times, etc. It was clearly a half-hearted edit on Toei's part. The main thing with it is that it was intended to only be released overseas, but suddenly got broadcast on Japanese TV because they needed a replacement for Toriko after that anime got cancelled. I wish they got Q-Tec to do it, but alas.

I’ve seen the argument there’s is really not much of a difference between Kai and what Funimation and Saban originally did to Z for the first two seasons. I agree but at least there’s sort of the pretense of being closer to the manga for the first series. They fail in the literal first second and over half the first episode is stuff that wasn’t in the manga, but at least you get the idea the editor was using the manga as a guide.

Buu Kai though? It’s just the Toei version of the Funi/Saban dub. Censorship, edited down not to be closer to the manga (at least half the filler is kept including episodes that are 100 percent filler ) but just to reduce the episode count and a modern replacement score. Oh also it’s cropped to widescreen and has the picture ruined with a green filter over it so it’s also weirdly Toei’s answer to the Orange Bricks.

The first Kai could have been salvaged if it wasn’t censored (excluding child peen and the strobing light effects) and was more artistic with how it implemented the Kikichi score but Buu Kai was just fundamentally shit.

Buu Kai's remaster isn't nearly as bad as the Orange Bricks. There's no loss of detail & the colors aren't overly horrible. What ruins the colors is the green tint. I downloaded that recent fan edit that properly white balanced the episodes & the colors are actually decent once they aren't ruined for no reason. As for the widescreen cropping, the first 98 episodes had cropping as well for the TV broadcasts. However, they actually saved 4:3 versions of the episodes for the home releases so you had the best of both worlds there. I actually think they might've been planning on saving 4:3 versions of these episodes (or simply assumed they would) as well because if you look at certain shots in the opening sequence, they're oddly framed for the 16:9 crop (the shot of Babidi & Buu immediately springs to my mind), so I assume most of the shots in the opening were actually framed in 4:3, but cropped for the TV broadcasts, but when Toei didn't save 4:3 versions of the episodes, they went unused in that ratio. When Seed of Might releases color-corrected versions of the Z episodes, I wouldn't mind reviving my old project of re-editing the Kai episode audios with the Z footage (quietly cancelled it because I got in over my head at the time & wasn't happy with the un-color-corrected Dragon Box footage I was using).

As for "fundamentally shit," I mostly disagree. Buu Kai (at least for me) is still a better watch than original Z Buu. They took out the more annoying filler I didn't like & didn't actually add anything (the Gohan high school stuff, the fight of Gotenks VS Fat Buu which ruined the joke Toriyama was going for in the manga, all of the stupid filler from inside Super Buu's body & Buu stopping to take a shit when he got indigestion from the fighting in his stomach, etc) & sped up the pace of the arc in anime form substantially. The only thing I don't like being removed was the establishing scene of the hunter that shot Bee, which I get why they cut it as they were pre cutting out material that wouldn't be cool on kid's TV channels overseas, but they should've left it in & just let any of those channels cut it down or out at their discretion because it was manga material (if I do a recut of Z to color-corrected footage, I'll keep in that scene) that established 2 characters before they came in & pissed Buu off. The 1 filler I don't understand why they kept was the Hell filler, as the Hell scenes were left out of the first 98 episodes & doesn't add anything to the episodes. However, add on the English dub actually being good finally (though I don't understand the few times they changed lines that were actually translated well in the Z dub, especially when Goku thanks Vegeta for fusing with him. "Thank you, Vegeta" got turned into "Thanks, Vegeta. Here we go" for no reason) & I genuinely will watch this recut over OG Z Buu any day of the week.

And, yes, I hate the Z dub that much. Over time, my opinions have soured on it that much even if the Buu Arc's dub wasn't nearly as bad as what came before.

As for Sumitomo's score, I didn't mind it for the most part, but some placements genuinely confused me as to why they were there. Some of the music, he'd reuse for Super (like the theme for Vegetto's entrance in both), so I think that's fine. However, due to some of the placements, it comes off like he was rushed to compose them & wasn't able to finalize his placements before the episodes were sent out to the dubbing companies or TV station in Japan.

I have a lot of fondness for Kai myself. Sometimes because of lack of free time and need for better pacing you just want to watch 167 episodes instead of 291.

I even enjoy The Final Chapters although some of Sumitomo's tracks can be jarring at times I always find a couple gems here and there. Hell I hardly even notice the green tint or cropping most of the time.

The only real issue I have with Kai, other than the Saiyan arc maybe being too quick is the lack of availability of Ocean's dub because I grew up a fan of that cast. With Z I have the choice between the Funimation and Ocean casts, but with Kai sadly I can only watch the former.

Unless it leaks out on a torrent site, or a TV station in Canada airs it, we're never seeing the Canadian dub of Kai at this point, I'm sorry, man. Don't know what else to tell ya.

Here's an interesting piece of info regarding Kai's Buu arc: Masako Nozawa said its episode count would be in the 40s, so initially it seems like the plan was for it to line up with Kai 1.0's pacing. Something happened mid-way through production that resulted in us getting that nonsensical 69 episode count that we have.

Where'd she say that? Can you provide a source?