How Would You Introduce Someone to Dragon Ball ?

[Vegeta th3 4th]

The problematic stuff with Roshi is way more prominent at that point, and could turn people off from watching further.

Is it worse than what we see in Family Guy ? That show is far more uncomfortable than anything DB ever attempted.

[PhantomSaiyan]

It's not the end of the world if people just don't read or what the early stuff first.

True, but it definitely has the potential to create the worst type of DragonBall fan, it's not a guarantee, but the risk is there.
Btw nice avatar, FF8 is a goated game

[JulieYBM]

It's not the end of the world if people just don't read or what the early stuff first.

True, but it definitely has the potential to create the worst type of DragonBall fan, it's not a guarantee, but the risk is there.
Btw nice avatar, FF8 is a goated game

I mean, I started with the Namek arc. The issue is less about where you start and whether or not you're a normal person and not a weird asshole about discussing cartoons and stuff. I don't really think where one starts is that big a deal.

I've been in a big Final Fantasy VIII mood lately. I'm so due for a replay. The Squall and Rinoa romance is one of my favorites, and I relate a lot to Rinoa, so I just knew I had to go with this avatar for a little while lol

I'll no doubt return to that Britney avatar sooner or later, though lol

[MasenkoHA]

It's not the end of the world if people just don't read or what the early stuff first.

True, but it definitely has the potential to create the worst type of DragonBall fan, it's not a guarantee, but the risk is there.
Btw nice avatar, FF8 is a goated game

I mean, I started with the Namek arc. The issue is less about where you start and whether or not you're a normal person and not a weird asshole about discussing cartoons and stuff. I don't really think where one starts is that big a deal.

I dunno I feel mixed about this.

Most people here probably started at some random episode of Z and not the actual first episode, let alone the first episode of the first series. Media consumption also just worked differently back then. You kind of just caught whatever episode was on tv and then hoped to catch up in reruns or buy the home video release. Or maybe your friend had a vhs and you watched whatever episodes were on that tape (that’s how I got into Pokemon with my friend having vhs tapes and watching the Ash gets the Kanto starters vhs first).

With streaming it’s pretty unheard of to not start with the first episode even if everyone else is on season 6 (or in Dragon Balls case a show that ended decades ago).

Though I am also in agreement with 90sDBZ that the first arc of Dragon Ball isn’t a good representation of the franchise or even a good representation of the original series. The problematic stuff is definitely at its worst in the first two arcs but it never goes away. The first time we see Roshi in the Z era he tries to grab at Bulma’s boobs.


But on a third hand I dunno why the conversation is always start with Z/Kai or start with the very first episode of Dragon Ball. Especially when most people’s hesitation with the 86 series is the first arc and maybe the second. Why not start with the Red Ribbon arc which is probably the most Dragon Ball arc to ever Dragon Ball? Or Tenshinhan arc where the tone and style of the franchise is finally set in stone? Or the Daimao arc which is the Daddy of Dragon Ball Z’s formula?

[JulieYBM]

True, but it definitely has the potential to create the worst type of DragonBall fan, it's not a guarantee, but the risk is there.
Btw nice avatar, FF8 is a goated game

I mean, I started with the Namek arc. The issue is less about where you start and whether or not you're a normal person and not a weird asshole about discussing cartoons and stuff. I don't really think where one starts is that big a deal.

I dunno I feel mixed about this.

Most people here probably started at some random episode of Z and not the actual first episode, let alone the first episode of the first series. Media consumption also just worked differently back then. You kind of just caught whatever episode was on tv and then hoped to catch up in reruns or buy the home video release. Or maybe your friend had a vhs and you watched whatever episodes were on that tape (that’s how I got into Pokemon with my friend having vhs tapes and watching the Ash gets the Kanto starters vhs first).

With streaming it’s pretty unheard of to not start with the first episode even if everyone else is on season 6 (or in Dragon Balls case a show that ended decades ago).

Though I am also in agreement with 90sDBZ that the first arc of Dragon Ball isn’t a good representation of the franchise or even a good representation of the original series. The problematic stuff is definitely at its worst in the first two arcs but it never goes away. The first time we see Roshi in the Z era he tries to grab at Bulma’s boobs.


But on a third hand I dunno why the conversation is always start with Z/Kai or start with the very first episode of Dragon Ball. Especially when most people’s hesitation with the 86 series is the first arc and maybe the second. Why not start with the Red Ribbon arc which is probably the most Dragon Ball arc to ever Dragon Ball? Or Tenshinhan arc where the tone and style of the franchise is finally set in stone? Or the Daimao arc which is the Daddy of Dragon Ball Z’s formula?

Ih, I wasn’t suggesting beginning with the Saiyan arc, I just don't think it's a big issue if someone starts in the middle of some arc like I did. Sometimes that happens.

I'd suggest the Red Ribbon Army arc, but...there's still attempted rape there and...the only gay character is both a Nazi and a pedophile in the anime.

[PhantomSaiyan]

I mean, I started with the Namek arc. The issue is less about where you start and whether or not you're a normal person and not a weird asshole about discussing cartoons and stuff. I don't really think where one starts is that big a deal.

I've been in a big Final Fantasy VIII mood lately. I'm so due for a replay. The Squall and Rinoa romance is one of my favorites, and I relate a lot to Rinoa, so I just knew I had to go with this avatar for a little while lol

I'll no doubt return to that Britney avatar sooner or later, though lol

Good point, I myself don't even remember at what point of the story I started dragonball since I used to watch random episodes as they aired them on television and I think I turned out alright (I hope). Not to mention how much stuff I spoiled for myself thanks to videogames and the internet lol

Enjoy your replay! Very underappreciated game, I'm a big fan of the romance as well, contrary to what some people say online I thought it was pretty well developed and it hit all the right emotional strings

[BernardoCairo]

I agree. Where you started isn't really a problem. I started with the Boo Arc, for example. But if I was introducing Dragon Ball to someone, I would highly recomend this person to start with the original series, as that's my favorite one. Or just pick up the manga and start from chapter 1.

[GokuHater]

To reply to the majority of voices stating that Roshi's behaviour may be a turn off for somebody, with which I agree, I don't really think watching from Z would nullify that.

I just recently had a rewatch of Garlic Jn saga and in one of the earliest scenes, Roshi tells Maroon she has to pass his test in order for him to let Krillin have a girlfriend (and I think we all know what the test is ).
Kai probably doesn't have this but I think scenes like this are littered over even Z/Kai era.

[JulieYBM]

To reply to the majority of voices stating that Roshi's behaviour may be a turn off for somebody, with which I agree, I don't really think watching from Z would nullify that.

I just recently had a rewatch of Garlic Jn saga and in one of the earliest scenes, Roshi tells Maroon she has to pass his test in order for him to let Krillin have a girlfriend (and I think we all know what the test is ).
Kai probably doesn't have this but I think scenes like this are littered over even Z/Kai era.

It's not perfect, but it also isn't the non-stop onslaught of, "Underage girl gets sexually assaulted and harassed."

This entire franchise is "roll with the punches" central.

[GokuHater]

Well I guess it depends on times and context.

Nowadays some scenes would be even uncomfortable for a western viewer.

Right then these were just silly gags for Japanese watchers.

[Zephyr]

I think an unfortunate caveat with early DB being problematic is that it's still pretty fucking funny. The story was undoubtedly more tightly-written when Torishima was Toriyama's editor, and that's unfortunately where Roshi is the most prominent. Yeah, you could skip what is in a way DB at its strongest to avoid the problematic content, but then you're skipping DB at its strongest.

That said, I don't really like how Toriyama's comedic talent is being propped up as "DB's true heart and charm" at the expense of the cool action that later came to define it. I think the truth is that DB's heart and charm is the marriage of these things. Toriyama made a silly thing, shaped that silly thing into something increasingly cool as hell, and then flipped that cool thing into being silly again before wrapping it up. That's structurally awesome, and if you don't start at the beginning you won't be able to experience it.

It's true that a lot of people will start at some random place with a lot of shows, and that's fine. But if you are interested in checking a thing out and have the ability to start from the beginning, you might as well. If you wanna watch a show, watch the show, rough and problematic parts and all. They're a part of the show too, for better or for worse.

If you want to give someone a disclaimer about problematic content, absolutely do so, but a great many people can handle that stuff even if we'd rather it was simply never written that way in the first place. Just as I'm not gonna project my own wish fulfillment of watching Bruce Lee movies and reading Dr. Slump before starting DB onto a first time viewer, we shouldn't project our own lack of a stomach for problematic content onto others (particularly if they're already grown adults).

This entire franchise is "roll with the punches" central.

Exactly. Even if you skip the early Roshi antics, it's not long before you're introduced to the God of Blackface. With DB you're either willing to accept a problematic ride, or you're not. If you are, then buckle up and start from the beginning. If you're not, then probably skip the whole thing and do something else. Of course, not every sort of problematic content is going to get under everyone's skin to the same degree. Which means there's a whole "It Depends" in the room here.

[Vegeta th3 4th]

With DB you're either willing to accept a problematic ride, or you're not. If you are, then buckle up and start from the beginning. If you're not, then probably skip the whole thing and do something else. Of course, not every sort of problematic content is going to get under everyone's skin to the same degree. Which means there's a whole "It Depends" in the room here.

People seem to not realize that every show, be it Western or Japanese, has a degree of problematic content in it. Mainstream Western animated shows such as Family Guy have far more problematic elements than Dragon Ball ever did, yet people seem to not really care about it. Roshi's antics may be uncomfortable here and there, but Family Guy has done some shit that made me wonder whether or not the creators got a knock on the door from the authorities after the episode aired.

[JulieYBM]

With DB you're either willing to accept a problematic ride, or you're not. If you are, then buckle up and start from the beginning. If you're not, then probably skip the whole thing and do something else. Of course, not every sort of problematic content is going to get under everyone's skin to the same degree. Which means there's a whole "It Depends" in the room here.

People seem to not realize that every show, be it Western or Japanese, has a degree of problematic content in it. Mainstream Western animated shows such as Family Guy have far more problematic elements than Dragon Ball ever did, yet people seem to not really care about it. Roshi's antics may be uncomfortable here and there, but Family Guy has done some shit that made me wonder whether or not the creators got a knock on the door from the authorities after the episode aired.

You're probably not looking hard enough, then. I don't watch Family Guy because it's an ugly looking show. Finding out via the grapevine how it treats and depicts women like me does not endear it to me, either, at all.

[MasenkoHA]

Not really interested in defending Family Guy but it’s humor is very dependent on you the audience being aware of how fucked up the characters. The show is well aware Quagmire is a rapist. Dragon Ball doesn’t seem to be aware that Roshi is a sex offender its just treated as no big deal just a silly old man being goofy. I would argue the latter is worse for being dismissive. The whole punching down humor under the pretense of “equal opportunity offender” that Family Guy engages in is whole other can of worms though. But Family Guy is at least aware violating women’s consent is bad.

I do agree with Julie and Zephyr that you kind of have to roll with the punches and take Dragon Ball for what it is. The problematic stuff doesn’t really go anywhere and my favorite series is the 86 anime where the problematic content is at its worst

[JulieYBM]

Not really interested in defending Family Guy but it’s humor is very dependent on you the audience being aware of how fucked up the characters. The show is well aware Quagmire is a rapist. Dragon Ball doesn’t seem to be aware that Roshi is a sex offender its just treated as no big deal just a silly old man being goofy. I would argue the latter is worse for being dismissive. The whole punching down humor under the pretense of “equal opportunity offender” that Family Guy engages in is whole other can of worms though. But Family Guy is at least aware violating women’s consent is bad.

I do agree with Julie and Zephyr that you kind of have to roll with the punches and take Dragon Ball for what it is. The problematic stuff doesn’t really go anywhere and my favorite series is the 86 anime where the problematic content is at its worst

I feel like Family Guy having Brian puke for a minute straight (lol) when he realizes he slept with a trans woman—a trans woman designed to basically fulfill the 'man in a dress' stereotype—really shoots down the idea that it is a show that is entirely self-aware of the harm it causes.

Well, that or the core staff is filled with unforgiving transmisogynists and shitheads.

I do agree that Dragon Ball doesn't seem to realize that the Muten Roushi is a sex pest, though, which is a problem unto itself.

[ABED]

While people can certainly get into even a serialized show starting with a random episode and I'm not averse to people starting with something later, I would hope they'd eventually go back to the beginning armed with the knowledge that it gets good. One thing that stopped me from watching Star Trek TNG was people telling me that it got good in season 2. I would have to push my way through 1 entire network season and trust that it would get good. Hopefully knowing something is good down the line would entice someone to start at the beginning. The first arc isn't even that long. It's a fun watch. It's like Buffy and Angel's first seasons. But take awhile to find their footing but even as they are in their infancy, there's enough there to enjoy. I feel the same about DB. And the 21st TB is among my favorite arcs. It also introduces Kuririn.

[90sDBZ]

To reply to the majority of voices stating that Roshi's behaviour may be a turn off for somebody, with which I agree, I don't really think watching from Z would nullify that.

I just recently had a rewatch of Garlic Jn saga and in one of the earliest scenes, Roshi tells Maroon she has to pass his test in order for him to let Krillin have a girlfriend (and I think we all know what the test is ).
Kai probably doesn't have this but I think scenes like this are littered over even Z/Kai era.

Most of those type of Roshi scenes were filler in the Z era, so there's a lot less of it in Kai.

While people can certainly get into even a serialized show starting with a random episode and I'm not averse to people starting with something later, I would hope they'd eventually go back to the beginning armed with the knowledge that it gets good.

This would be the ideal scenario for people who skip early DB. People telling you a show gets good is one thing, but actually knowing it gets good is way more likely to keep you watching.

I saw both Z and GT before DB, but loved going back and seeing how it all began.

While I can completely understand people choosing to start with Z, I do find it surprising how many fans never bother watching DB afterwards. Like they love the world and the characters, but aren't curious to see the beginning.

[Zephyr]

One thing that stopped me from watching Star Trek TNG was people telling me that it got good in season 2. I would have to push my way through 1 entire network season and trust that it would get good. Hopefully knowing something is good down the line would entice someone to start at the beginning. The first arc isn't even that long. It's a fun watch. It's like Buffy and Angel's first seasons. But take awhile to find their footing but even as they are in their infancy, there's enough there to enjoy.

As someone watching through Buffy for the first time right now (currently in the middle of Season 3), I am honestly shocked to read the first couple of seasons even need to be defended with a "there's enough there to enjoy". I've had a legitimately great time, every season.

And as someone who watched TNG for the first time (alongside DS9, Voyager, and Picard) between 2020 and 2024, I enjoyed the early seasons of the 90's shows quite a bit more than I've been led to believe I was supposed to. For Picard, I did only watch that because I heard Season 3 was good (and it was). I don't regret suffering through Seasons 1 and 2, but I don't think I'll ever rewatch them. Early TNG, DS9, Voyager, and Buffy though? I would gladly rewatch those early seasons.

All of these, and DB as well, do eventually get into a stable rhythm and identity, and it is true that there are bumps along that road. But they are hardly special in this regard; any long-running story is like that. I know that for me, a story having found its footing is something I appreciate a lot more when I've seen that 'finding' process, so to speak. But also, no story is immune to having duds and stinkers even after it's found its footing (DB and TNG especially exemplify this), which somewhat undermines the 'quality control' that the "skip to when it gets good" advice is ostensibly meant to facilitate.

All I can reasonably conclude with here is that enfranchised nerds are decidedly very blind to just how widely mileage can vary when it comes to a thing they are probably way too close to. If a big fan of something I'm thinking of checking out tells me to skip to a certain point, I'm probably going to be highly skeptical of that advice.

[JulieYBM]

I don't know entirely how well the comparisons to syndication-era American television works, what with Dragon Ball being a fair bit more serial. That being said, the way that 1980s and 1990s Star Trek had a way of routinely reinventing itself after the first few seasons seems an almost fitting comparison to our dear Twenty-Second Tenka-ichi Budoukai.

I never could get passed the first season of Buffy the Vampire Slayer. Albeit, that was, like, fifteen years ago, but oof lol. I thought about giving it another shake, but I'm honestly not hot on the Whedon influence, Xander and...well, all the homophobia. I'm really curious about what might become of the revival series that is in the works. If that's any good, I might hop back on from there.

[MasenkoHA]

One thing that stopped me from watching Star Trek TNG was people telling me that it got good in season 2. I would have to push my way through 1 entire network season and trust that it would get good. Hopefully knowing something is good down the line would entice someone to start at the beginning. The first arc isn't even that long. It's a fun watch. It's like Buffy and Angel's first seasons. But take awhile to find their footing but even as they are in their infancy, there's enough there to enjoy.

As someone watching through Buffy for the first time right now (currently in the middle of Season 3), I am honestly shocked to read the first couple of seasons even need to be defended with a "there's enough there to enjoy". I've had a legitimately great time, every season.

And as someone who watched TNG for the first time (alongside DS9, Voyager, and Picard) between 2020 and 2024, I enjoyed the early seasons of the 90's shows quite a bit more than I've been led to believe I was supposed to. For Picard, I did only watch that because I heard Season 3 was good (and it was). I don't regret suffering through Seasons 1 and 2, but I don't think I'll ever rewatch them. Early TNG, DS9, Voyager, and Buffy though? I would gladly rewatch those early seasons.

All of these, and DB as well, do eventually get into a stable rhythm and identity, and it is true that there are bumps along that road. But they are hardly special in this regard; any long-running story is like that. I know that for me, a story having found its footing is something I appreciate a lot more when I've seen that 'finding' process, so to speak. But also, no story is immune to having duds and stinkers even after it's found its footing (DB and TNG especially exemplify this), which somewhat undermines the 'quality control' that the "skip to when it gets good" advice is ostensibly meant to facilitate.

All I can reasonably conclude with here is that enfranchised nerds are decidedly very blind to just how widely mileage can vary when it comes to a thing they are probably way too close to. If a big fan of something I'm thinking of checking out tells me to skip to a certain point, I'm probably going to be highly skeptical of that advice.

The first season of Buffy is definitely a lot cheesier than what came after (the bad guy from I Robot You Jane looks like they stole the costume from the set of Power Rangers for example) and season 2, at least in my opinion, struggled with having a full network season because the story arc episodes are really very good but the filler episodes that weren’t “I Only Have Eyes for You” were almost entirely shit. Season 3 is definitely when the show hit its stride and proved it can have a really strong overarching storyline and fun one and dones but season 1 and 2 are definitely still good overall.

If Dragon Ball wasn’t split between the 1986 anime and Z I’m not sure we’d even have this conversation of rather we should start with episode 154 or not. Kind of hard to say the bias of most of us not being given the choice to not watch Z first isn’t there. Especially when a lot of arguments for starting with Z fall flat. It’s less problematic but so was original Dragon Ball after the second arc. It’s more action oriented but so was original Dragon Ball by the time Tao Pai Pai shows up.