Dragon Ball Super is Not Modern Anymore

[JulieYBM]

So, as we've probably all noticed by now, Dragon Ball Super is turning ten years old in three months.

As a result of realizing this, it occured to me that when I became a Dragon Ball fan in 1998, Dragon Ball was not just already over, but ten years prior was not even the beginning of Dragon Ball. In Dragon Ball (1986), Gokuu was off traveling through time and fighting a doll clone of himself ten years prior to when I became a fan. There was a whole 130 episodes and a handful of movies already finished by then. Meanwhile, in Dragon Ball (1984), ol' Gokuu was learning about his origins and getting kneed in the stomach by his surprise elder brother.

It really put into perspective something that I hadn't realized about the way that the fandom speaks about Dragon Ball: we speak of Dragon Ball Super as if it is 'modern', but just as the world and landscape of the arts was different in 1998 from what it was in 1988, the world of 2025 is different from the world of 2015. We can't really call Dragon Ball Super a 'modern' series any longer, because it's function and the industry that created it has changed. Hell, even the decades-long hold that Toei Animation had over the 9-10AM Fuji TV slot is now gone (albeit, one of those slots is being filled with episodes of GeGeGe no Kitarou, which is still a Toei series).

Anyway, the point I wanted to make with this thread was that...modern's kind of a fleeting concept. Ten years from now, we'll be saying that Dragon Ball Daima isn't 'modern' anymore and Dragon Ball Super will definitely not qualify for the term in its twentieth year.

I know that it's hard to sometimes take scope of the world on the internet because time is so amophous here, but it's really worth baring in mind that with the way that things change, 'old' Dragon Ball isn't going to just stop at Dr. Slump (1997) or Dragon Ball GT (1996) forever. One day—arguably now—we're going to be calling Dragon Ball Super 'old Dragon Ball', too.

[Vegeta th3 4th]

Using the word "modern" to describe Super and Daima is just a way of differentiating them from the three series prior. Dragon Ball basically has two eras: 1984-1997 & 2008 - current.

[JulieYBM]

Using the word "modern" to describe Super and Daima is just a way of differentiating them from the three series prior. Dragon Ball basically has two eras: 1984-1997 & 2008 - current.

And the point I'm making is that that does not work. Things aren't consistent from between 1998-2025. The landscape of not just Dragon Ball, but the industry in general as well as the world had changed numerous times already and will concern to do so. 'Modern' inherently is not a great way of describing an era that stretches across a 27 year period of time, let alone will have to seemingly apply to the upcoming years.

[Dragon Ball Ireland]

It's also worth keeping in mind a lot of us here watched Dragon Ball Super as adults, and time seems to pass quicker the older we get. As a kid months can feel like forever, but when your in your 20s, 30s and beyond years start to feel like nothing.

So as scary as it is to think Super is nearly 10 years old its easy to see why we can perceive it to be "modern" when we can remember watching the show as it aired like it was only a few years ago. I know this is how it feels for me as a 33 year old. If I were 10-15 years younger I imagine it would genuinely feel like a long time ago since I watched Super when it was new.

[Dr. Casey]

Interesting and thoughtful thread. The details can be argued but I strongly agree with the overall point. Direct comparisons between x number of years don't always work well since some years count for much more than others (though that's obvious enough that you're likely aware). To use streaming as an example, there were fairly minimal differences between 1993, the first time a video was streamed on the internet, and 2003. Almost nobody streamed in 2003, either. There was a much greater difference between 2005 and 2007, between the opening of YouTube and massively widespread viral videos like Leave Britney Alone. For anime, I think the difference between 2015 and 2025 is a lot more subtle, though I watched old anime openings from 2015 a few weeks ago and a difference is starting to become noticeable with some 2015 anime seeming a little quaint and campy now. The change between 1988 and 1998 is drastic and overt.

What Dragon Ball Ireland said is also true. It's hard to say whether kids/teenagers or adults have a more accurate assessment of the relevancy of how much time has passed; kids might overestimate it and adults might underestimate it. Adults do eventually come around and admit that something is no longer new or modern though, it just takes more time and for that fact to become more obvious. I was an adult in 2008 at 20-21, but I think calling 2008 'modern' is questionable at this point. I'd still call 2015 modern even if its time for remaining as such is becoming limited, but 2008 is becoming kind of middle-aged in anime terms. Shows like Code Geass are starting to feel pretty damn old, too much so to call them firmly modern. And in 2040 I wouldn't call Dragon Ball Super in any way modern, adult brain or not.

[Vegeta th3 4th]

And the point I'm making is that that does not work. Things aren't consistent from between 1998-2025. The landscape of not just Dragon Ball, but the industry in general as well as the world had changed numerous times already and will concern to do so. 'Modern' inherently is not a great way of describing an era that stretches across a 27 year period of time, let alone will have to seemingly apply to the upcoming years.

Modern DB is still going on, even though it started all the way back in 2008. There was never a big gap between 2008 and 2025.

2008: Goku and his Friends Return OVA
2010: Plan to Destroy the Saiyans remake OVA
2011: Episode of Bardock OVA
2013: Battle of Gods movie
2014: DB Minus
2015: Resurrection F movie
2015-2018: Super anime
2015-2025: Super manga
2018-2024: Heroes anime
2018: Broly movie
2022: Superhero movie
2024-2025: Daima anime

2009 and 2012 were the only two years that didn't include any new content.

[SupremeKai25]

I am a very, very nostalgic person, and I constantly think about the past.

The fact that Super is now turning 10 years old has not escaped my mind. Now, when I use the term "Modern Dragon Ball", I refer to 2020s Dragon Ball. Super Hero movie, Daima, that stuff. I don't feel like calling 2010s Dragon Ball part of the "modern era" anymore. The Future Trunks saga and Tournament of Power saga are nearly 10 years old.

Battle of Gods and Resurrection of F definitely fall within the Super storyline, despite being branded as DBZ movies. So Dragon Ball Super as a storyline is turning 12 years old this year.

For context, that's longer than the original manga run (1984-1995) by 1 year.

[JulieYBM]

The Code Geass example that Dr. Casey employed is definitely a good example. Code Geass is about to hit its twentieth anniversary. Hell, so is Gundam 00—a series that is so very much of it's time as a response to the 2000s where the US was invading the Middle East for natural resources.

And the point I'm making is that that does not work. Things aren't consistent from between 1998-2025. The landscape of not just Dragon Ball, but the industry in general as well as the world had changed numerous times already and will concern to do so. 'Modern' inherently is not a great way of describing an era that stretches across a 27 year period of time, let alone will have to seemingly apply to the upcoming years.

Modern DB is still going on, even though it started all the way back in 2008. There was never a big gap between 2008 and 2025.

2008: Goku and his Friends Return OVA
2010: Plan to Destroy the Saiyans remake OVA
2011: Episode of Bardock OVA
2013: Battle of Gods movie
2014: DB Minus
2015: Resurrection F movie
2015-2018: Super anime
2015-2025: Super manga
2018-2024: Heroes anime
2018: Broly movie
2022: Superhero movie
2024-2025: Daima anime

2009 and 2012 were the only two years that didn't include any new content.

Having projects between 2008 and 2025 doesn't mean anything, though, because the world and the purpose of these projects is constantly changing. Again, Dragon Ball of 1997/1998 isn't the same as Dragon Ball of 1987/1988, either, so a continuous chain of releases doesn't mean much when time passes during this period, too. The 2008 special was a nod to the old days for the nostalgia crowd. Dragon Ball Super? Actively pushing the story forward to mostly appeal to children and their parents who grew up on Dragon Ball.

[Vegeta th3 4th]

Having projects between 2008 and 2025 doesn't mean anything, though, because the world and the purpose of these projects is constantly changing. Again, Dragon Ball of 1997/1998 isn't the same as Dragon Ball of 1987/1988, either, so a continuous chain of releases doesn't mean much when time passes during this period, too. The 2008 special was a nod to the old days for the nostalgia crowd. Dragon Ball Super? Actively pushing the story forward to mostly appeal to children and their parents who grew up on Dragon Ball.

I personally just use the word modern out of convenience, rather than it meaning something exact; the same applies with classic to describe the old material. How would you divide the franchise as a whole ? Do you consider everything from the 80s and 90s as part of a classic era, or do you divide the two decades ? Same goes with the newer material; where's the cutoff point ? We could just use old and new to describe them, but then we run into the same problem: what counts as "new" ?

[kemuri07]

Having projects between 2008 and 2025 doesn't mean anything, though, because the world and the purpose of these projects is constantly changing. Again, Dragon Ball of 1997/1998 isn't the same as Dragon Ball of 1987/1988, either, so a continuous chain of releases doesn't mean much when time passes during this period, too. The 2008 special was a nod to the old days for the nostalgia crowd. Dragon Ball Super? Actively pushing the story forward to mostly appeal to children and their parents who grew up on Dragon Ball.

I personally just use the word modern out of convenience, rather than it meaning something exact; the same applies with classic to describe the old material. How would you divide the franchise as a whole ? Do you consider everything from the 80s and 90s as part of a classic era, or do you divide the two decades ? Same goes with the newer material; where's the cutoff point ? We could just use old and new to describe them, but then we run into the same problem: what counts as "new" ?

This is how I use the word "modern." Not literally as in new, but to differentiate between the original DB up to EoZ, and the movies leading up to Super represent the "modern" era of Dragon Ball. And I probably would put Daima in that "modern" category as well.

[GokuHater]

I feel like the words "original" and "modern" aren't meant to specifically describe the times in which the series was produced - that would be if we called it '80s Dragon Ball, '90s Dragon Ball, 2010s Dragon Ball and so forth.

Original and modern are just the distinction, the point by which the fans describe what was made during the original manga, anime run and all it's connected stories to what started in 2013 or even earlier.

Take note in the fact , that what we call as original had a clear end -- be it manga ending, Z anime ending, or even GT ending. All of these had a clear spot in which we said "goodbye dragon world" and knew it won't return for a long time if ever.
This era includes original manga run, DB and Z anime, GT plus all the original movies right up to Path to Power.
All of these had a similar feel to it, even if made through many years, one can still say it's one era.

The "modern" era started with DB "renesance" with BoG or arguably even earlier with "Yo Son Goku".
The special and the movie were still labeled as Z but I think no one can count them as a part of the classic era. Animation wise, tone and plot wise they're all more similar to what we have to this day.
Also modern era didn't have a specific ending like the classics. It didn't end after Super anime ended. It didn't end after the Super Hero Movie. It didn't end after Granolah. It didn't even end now after Daima.
That's why it's still looked upon as one collection of Dragon Ball stories.

We could make a distinction between Super and Daima - maybe - but tbh they are similar and written in the same tone as all DB since 2008 so for me at least, that doesn't make sense.

[Thanos]

Dragon Ball Kai still feels rather recent to me, and yet that was the childhood experience of Dragon Ball for a lot of fans who are now also adults.

[coola]

I'm gonna borrow that one meme and alter it slightly

When i think of games 20+ years ago


Actual 20+ year game

[Vegard Aune]

I think at least for my part, and probably also many others my age...
"modern" anime basically just means stuff digitally produced in HD and widescreen. While production techniques have certainly changed in quite a few ways since the early 2000s, I feel like there's less of a noticeable difference between a show produced in 2008 and 2025, than there is between a show produced in 1999 and a show produced in 2008. The jump from cel animation to digital, and then the jump from SD to HD, were both just such a massive change in the overall aesthetic of everything that as soon as the new style became the norm, anything animated using the previous standard approach just feels "old". Meanwhile I remember watching Haruhi and Gurren Lagann with a friend of mine a few years back, both shows that admittedly were produced in SD but had both had HD upscales released by then, and despite them both being over a decade old at the time we watched them, they still looked and felt like they would be right at home amongst the stuff coming out on TV those days. (This was in like 2017, I think, but I also reckon the same would apply today. More so for Gurren Lagann though, if only because the HD upscale for Haruhi was rather crummy.)


...So even though it is true that Super, being a decade old at this point, can't really be called "modern", it still feels like a modern show to me just for the fact that it was more or less produced in the same format as stuff still coming out today. ...Though it does look positively garbage compared to Daima, but that's like 95% down to the rushed production schedule.

[JulieYBM]

I think at least for my part, and probably also many others my age...
"modern" anime basically just means stuff digitally produced in HD and widescreen. While production techniques have certainly changed in quite a few ways since the early 2000s, I feel like there's less of a noticeable difference between a show produced in 2008 and 2025, than there is between a show produced in 1999 and a show produced in 2008. The jump from cel animation to digital, and then the jump from SD to HD, were both just such a massive change in the overall aesthetic of everything that as soon as the new style became the norm, anything animated using the previous standard approach just feels "old". Meanwhile I remember watching Haruhi and Gurren Lagann with a friend of mine a few years back, both shows that admittedly were produced in SD but had both had HD upscales released by then, and despite them both being over a decade old at the time we watched them, they still looked and felt like they would be right at home amongst the stuff coming out on TV those days. (This was in like 2017, I think, but I also reckon the same would apply today. More so for Gurren Lagann though, if only because the HD upscale for Haruhi was rather crummy.)


...So even though it is true that Super, being a decade old at this point, can't really be called "modern", it still feels like a modern show to me just for the fact that it was more or less produced in the same format as stuff still coming out today. ...Though it does look positively garbage compared to Daima, but that's like 95% down to the rushed production schedule.

The thing about Super is also that it was produced at a time where Toei Animation still barely used any post-procressing. Despite being ten years old, it looks twenty years old because so many Toei projects still look like they're from the early 2000s. Even then, at least Gurren Lagann was more experimental at the time.

[coola]

I think at least for my part, and probably also many others my age...
"modern" anime basically just means stuff digitally produced in HD and widescreen. While production techniques have certainly changed in quite a few ways since the early 2000s, I feel like there's less of a noticeable difference between a show produced in 2008 and 2025, than there is between a show produced in 1999 and a show produced in 2008. The jump from cel animation to digital, and then the jump from SD to HD, were both just such a massive change in the overall aesthetic of everything that as soon as the new style became the norm, anything animated using the previous standard approach just feels "old". Meanwhile I remember watching Haruhi and Gurren Lagann with a friend of mine a few years back, both shows that admittedly were produced in SD but had both had HD upscales released by then, and despite them both being over a decade old at the time we watched them, they still looked and felt like they would be right at home amongst the stuff coming out on TV those days. (This was in like 2017, I think, but I also reckon the same would apply today. More so for Gurren Lagann though, if only because the HD upscale for Haruhi was rather crummy.)


...So even though it is true that Super, being a decade old at this point, can't really be called "modern", it still feels like a modern show to me just for the fact that it was more or less produced in the same format as stuff still coming out today. ...Though it does look positively garbage compared to Daima, but that's like 95% down to the rushed production schedule.

The thing about Super is also that it was produced at a time where Toei Animation still barely used any post-procressing. Despite being ten years old, it looks twenty years old because so many Toei projects still look like they're from the early 2000s. Even then, at least Gurren Lagann was more experimental at the time.

Speaking of Gurren Lagann, if i remember correctly, they originally planned to have various different styles of animation, but 1st episode with different director and style recieved such backlash (Not Super episode 5, but still big one) they abandoned that idea...

[JulieYBM]

I think at least for my part, and probably also many others my age...
"modern" anime basically just means stuff digitally produced in HD and widescreen. While production techniques have certainly changed in quite a few ways since the early 2000s, I feel like there's less of a noticeable difference between a show produced in 2008 and 2025, than there is between a show produced in 1999 and a show produced in 2008. The jump from cel animation to digital, and then the jump from SD to HD, were both just such a massive change in the overall aesthetic of everything that as soon as the new style became the norm, anything animated using the previous standard approach just feels "old". Meanwhile I remember watching Haruhi and Gurren Lagann with a friend of mine a few years back, both shows that admittedly were produced in SD but had both had HD upscales released by then, and despite them both being over a decade old at the time we watched them, they still looked and felt like they would be right at home amongst the stuff coming out on TV those days. (This was in like 2017, I think, but I also reckon the same would apply today. More so for Gurren Lagann though, if only because the HD upscale for Haruhi was rather crummy.)


...So even though it is true that Super, being a decade old at this point, can't really be called "modern", it still feels like a modern show to me just for the fact that it was more or less produced in the same format as stuff still coming out today. ...Though it does look positively garbage compared to Daima, but that's like 95% down to the rushed production schedule.

The thing about Super is also that it was produced at a time where Toei Animation still barely used any post-procressing. Despite being ten years old, it looks twenty years old because so many Toei projects still look like they're from the early 2000s. Even then, at least Gurren Lagann was more experimental at the time.

Speaking of Gurren Lagann, if i remember correctly, they originally planned to have various different styles of animation, but 1st episode with different director and style recieved such backlash (Not Super episode 5, but still big one) they abandoned that idea...

While I was specifically referring to the post-processing, I do know of this situation and loath that they abandoned that plan. Episode #5 looked amazing.

It wouldn't have stopped Gurren Lagann from being bad, but it would have at least kept looking good

[Zephyr]

I prefer the term "contemporary" to "modern", and that's probably partly because in terms of historical periodization 'modernity' begins roughly in the 1500's. The former is more of a sliding scale term than the latter in my mind.

That said, even if Dragon Ball Super (the TV show) is no longer contemporary, I think there is still merit to demarcating between Original Run Dragon Ball and Revival Era Dragon Ball. The former is tied to Dragon Ball as it existed as a weekly comic serial drawn by Akira Toriyama's own hand, and the latter is very much not. I'll admit the distinction is a little messy; Neko Majin and Kai blur the line, though I'd group Kai in the Revival Era despite it recycling an Original Run show.

[Vegeta th3 4th]

I'd group Kai in the Revival Era despite it recycling an Original Run show.

I view Kai as a bridge between the classic and modern eras. It uses the same material from the classic era, but it's paced differently to get people into the modern era.

[JulieYBM]

I feel like pre-2013 is its own era, although I think there's an argument to be made that Battle of Gods and Resurrection F are part of the Kai era, rather than the Super era. Either way, the limits of what seemed possible in these eras was quickly changing the more time passed, which is why I'm trying to offer that we're now Super (TV) doesn’t really fit in as part of the same era as Daima or even Daima and Super Hero.