Do you dislike the Dragon Team vs Moro goons part of the arc?

[Yuji]

I've noticed it's a polarising segment, as people either love it or hate it.

I'd have to say personally I disliked it when first reading it because it felt like a waste of time since they're inconsequential battles we know could be resolved in a second by any of the stronger fighters, but rereading it, it doesn't overstay its welcome and it's just the right amount of fanservice. I also like the designs of the goons in general. I have to say the earlier segment of Piccolo-Kuririn-Gohan vs 73 & co prior to the training timeskip was better executed and had me more engaged, though.

[GreatSaiyaman123]

Tenshinhan and Chaozu fighting Bikkura Quoitur is the most characterization we’ve seen from these guys in the whole series, so I’ll defend it regardless of how pointless it was.

[Cipher]

That is my least favorite part of the Super manga, easily.

It drags the pacing of the arc to a halt for essentially a string of cameos. We know it's all a distraction until Moro (and Goku and Vegeta) arrive, but unlike similar portions in the original run (Saiyan arc), there isn't the tension of a specific ticking clock, nor the risk of anything happening to our heroes in the interim. There's isn't the element of new surprises in techniques or team-ups either, nor the shock value of escalating hopelessness those chapters offer. The Earthling fighters don't have any of their own character arcs in their action--it's literally as close to "just action figures fighting" as Super (or mainline DB manga in general) has ever gotten. Padded action for padded action's sake, which lives and dies on how much you like seeing old cast members on the page jus because you like seeing them.

I've seen this suggested elsewhere, but--and while I normally don't like workshopping DB--it would have been such an easy fix to have just cut the two-month timeskip from the story, and forced the fighters on Earth to hold off Moro's forces as soon as Seven-Three and co. arrive at God's temple, and just begin the climax from there. Would have given some extra narrative momentum to their fights. Or just add some other role they need to accomplish in general, rather than being months (real time, and a hefty chunk on reread) of clearly signposted sideshow.

Or maybe if it had just all been fun, interesting action. I could probably even get on board then. But it's some of Toyotaro's weakest stuff in the run.

Tenshinhan and Chaozu fighting Bikkura Quoitur is the most characterization we’ve seen from these guys in the whole series, so I’ll defend it regardless of how pointless it was.

It's also slightly weird characterization, though, given how much of a shit-talker Tenshinhan is in his first arc.

For better done examples of older cast members having roles in Super that are actually interesting, see Kame Sennin at the ToP (and even Kuririn's role in that arc, indirectly), or Kuririn in the Super Hero adaptation.

There's just ... nothing to those Moro arc scenes if you don't already care about Kuririn, Yamcha and Tenshinhan, and nothing in them that would make you care if you don't. It's literally just "Here are some guys you haven't seen in a while engaging in some slightly boring action. See you when the plot picks back up in three months."

[Skar]

I did like how Yamcha was included this time around. It did feel like filler or padding though. I guess it's an improvement over fighting Freeza soldiers in RoF since these henchmen were supposed to be above average aliens. I know fighting them was meant to stall until Goku and Vegeta arrived but I'm not sure what Freeza was expecting those soldiers to achieve when he brought them along.

Both moments of humans vs henchmen reminded me of DBZ filler when the humans had more screentime than in the manga like vs the Ginyu Force, Krillin saving a family from Imperfect Cell, Yamcha and Tien teaming up against a Cell Jr, Yamcha beating up Otherworld contestants, etc. It's fun to see if you're a fan of those characters but doesn't really affect the story if it wasn't included.

[BWri]

I loved it. I'm not sure where people get the feeling that it was filler. I've heard that said several times in the various critiques of those two chapters. There were more invaders than "Z-Fighters" which required to old guard to pitch in to effectively deal with the threats because Goku, the only "Z-fighter" with teleportation, wasn't there to one shot all the bad guys. It was a necessary part of the invasion story. It didn't even take up a lot of page real estate. Gohan and Piccolo, secondary characters mind you, get the most focus while the human earthlings have a few panels worth of fight choreography and gags. Tien even got a little bit of development, TIEN! Come on, let the man cook lol.

The alternative is to skip directly to Goku and Vegeta fighting Moro or cleaning up the mobs themselves which would have felt less organic, would not have advanced the other characters in any way, and would have once more made the story feel needlessly small. Other characters exist besides those two and they also deal with the fallout of Moro's actions. The world feels more alive that way.

Plus its fanservice for all the Oldtakus out there. LET US LIVE DAGNABBIT!

[Magnificent Ponta]

Overall I don't mind it; there's some good fun action to enjoy from that part of the arc, and it ticks along okay in and of itself, particularly the Piccolo and Gohan vs. OG73-I section of the fighting, and it's also a pretty good time when Moro gets on the scene and empowers Saganbo to wreck shop.

I think it's fair to say that not all of it is on the same level or entirely worth the page count, though. Probably the next best fight is Kuririn vs. Yunba, which has some neat choreographic touches and some clever fighting from Kuririn, but the rest is a bit hand-wavy and throwaway - Tenshinhan and Chaozu vs. Bikkura Quoitur has a cute enough gag in it but little else, Yamcha merely gets a couple of pages to merk some literal no-namers (and then get merked by someone who only gets a name right there and then, in Zauyogi), and the return of the problematic Roshi stuff for the first time in the Super manga during his fight is deeply unfortunate to see.

But beyond any issues with the content of that bit of the arc in and of itself, I count myself firmly on the side of the workshoppers - even with nothing else changed about the combat content, this section would have been a great deal more effective if they'd cut the 2 month training timeskip and just made this section an organic outgrowth and expansion of the initial combat that begins when the Bandit Brigade unexpectedly show up on Earth. What we get, unfortunately, is stopping the main thread of the arc in order to pick things up with this action pretty much exactly where it was before, only neatly and pointlessly sidelined. One simple change could've given this section of the arc more momentum and punch, exploiting the surprise it actually manages to effect in having the bad guys show up before the team are prepared to deal with them, and even the stuff that is good in that section already could've found another dimension (e.g., Gohan and Piccolo extemporising a combo-move counter against OG73-I, rather than planning one out after losing separately, would've been a cool way to showcase their innate nous and closeness as a fighting duo).

So yeah. Don't dislike it, but feel it could have been utilised in the story in a more effective way. Could've been a real asset, but is ultimately just sort of there.

[TekTheNinja]

It's kind of my favorite part of the arc, mostly because I've been waiting for these guys to get to do something for a while now. I can get it might not be the best written stuff, but it's fun.

[Thani]

Honestly? I actually preferred them to the later Moro fights. At least until Goku arrives to trivialize the whole thing.

I'm gonna be honest here, I really think Toyotaro works best when he introduces gimmicks in his fights. Whenever he actually has to make it a full brawl, it's just... boring. In that regard, it was the same with the Dragon Team against Moro's gang, but at least they were people we haven't seen fight for a while - and even then there were some conditions to the fights, like Tien and Chaotzu's fight against the metalman.

[super michael]

The Moro chapter was good, the only bad writing in it was Goten and Trunks not sensing any fight happening the entire time, even though the battle happened in many places in the world. Then everyone keeping the invasion a secret from Goten and Trunks.

[ZombieVito]

It was going well but then Goku arrives and defeats 5/8 of the goons.

Awful.

[Benjamin-Simons-91]

It was the peak of the Moro Arc IMHO, but it was quickly turned for the worst when Goku hogged almost all the victories.

[Mystic-han]

Absolutely

Outside of krillin , literally all of the Gang jobbed and barely did anything worth mention

Toyo my bro , did you really need to make Goku steal Yamcha fodder win ?

[JulieYBM]

I feel like a broken record, but yeah. There are no character arcs that I am interested in following there, let alone any real arcs in general. It's just getting in the way of what arcs are already in motion, rather than adding to the story.

Also, I just can't remember shit that happens outside of "Muten Roushi is a fatphobic sex pest towards women," and like, come on, y'all.

[Makaioshin]

As a factoid, I like the idea of Yamcha fighting alongside everyone again. But there is no story to support any meaning behind this so all that is left is spectacle. Or at least, this could be left if Toyotaro actually depicted these fights -- we only see small windows in the form of some traced references. So it is just a lesser version of F.

[Gashaponista]

I've noticed it's a polarising segment, as people either love it or hate it.

I'd have to say personally I disliked it when first reading it because it felt like a waste of time since they're inconsequential battles we know could be resolved in a second by any of the stronger fighters, but rereading it, it doesn't overstay its welcome and it's just the right amount of fanservice. I also like the designs of the goons in general. I have to say the earlier segment of Piccolo-Kuririn-Gohan vs 73 & co prior to the training timeskip was better executed and had me more engaged, though.

Well, fanservice is the only thing that Moro's arc offers, so if we look at it from that point of view it is totally congruent with everything else proposed by Toyo since Chikara no Taikai's end.

[Cipher]

I've noticed it's a polarising segment, as people either love it or hate it.

I'd have to say personally I disliked it when first reading it because it felt like a waste of time since they're inconsequential battles we know could be resolved in a second by any of the stronger fighters, but rereading it, it doesn't overstay its welcome and it's just the right amount of fanservice. I also like the designs of the goons in general. I have to say the earlier segment of Piccolo-Kuririn-Gohan vs 73 & co prior to the training timeskip was better executed and had me more engaged, though.

Well, fanservice is the only thing that Moro's arc offers, so if we look at it from that point of view it is totally congruent with everything else proposed by Toyo since Chikara no Taikai's end.

I was assured by readers of the Granolah arc and its long portions of non-main-characters fighting that it offered nothing any fans wanted to see, though. We're going to have to get our opinions in line on this.

[JulieYBM]

I reread the Moro arc the other day. Having Moro's goons ultimately defeated by Gokuu or Moro himself made those portions feel like they amounted to nothing and cut off legs for character arcs. Worse, they just got in the way of the actual Vegeta, Merus and Gokuu stuff. I think cutting them entirely would have been much better.

The Vegeta, Merus and Gokuu stuff is better than I remember, though.

[Mystic-han]

Absolutely like did Goku really have to come in and steal Tien and yamcha fodder Won?

What about 7-3 vs the Z gang? It literally accomplished nothing besides giving them fake hype just to hype Sagnabo up just to hype Goku up even more

[Zephyr]

This is up there with the anime's Copy Vegeta arc as probably my least favorite things in the entire revival era. Some genuine "I don't even care about remembering that this happened"-type material. I don't like Moro's goons for the most part, their designs or their names. Having Yamcha and Chaozu show up this time is nice on paper, but that ultimately makes it feel like a RoF fixfic, which isn't really something I care about. People talk a lot of shit about those times when DB feels like a bunch of action figures being smacked together, in particular the Granola arc, but that stuff was at least about something. Not all fan-service is hollow, but this stuff definitely was.

I think re-reading the Moro and Granola arcs back to back a couple years ago solidified my disinterest in seeing Toyotaro make new DB without having planning and feedback from Toriyama, and this big group battle is probably one reason why.