Could Dr. Gero have been inspired by Dr. Robotnik?

[nineko]

If we're drawing similarities, I think doctor Wily from Megaman has much more in common with doctor Gero, but still, I don't think Toriyama got inspiration from either of them (Wily or Robotnik).

What do Wily and Gero have in common? I know that they're both old (or at least look like they are, Wily is 55 but as a kid I always assumed he was in his 70s based off appearances).

As I said, it's a tenuous similarity at best, and I don't think one has been inspired by the other, but still: I've always seen Wily as more evil than Robotnik, the latter usually mass-produces thousands of generic robots (with some exceptions such as Metal Sonic), whereas Wily usually builds robots with unusual abilities tailored to hurt the protagonist. Besides, Robotnik sided with Sonic in several occasions to face common threats, whereas Wily only showed his good side at the end of the roboenza thing. I can't see Goku working side to side with Gero, he did recruit 17 and 18 for the ToP, but even then, Megaman allied himself with Forte (Bass), which is probably the most striking resemblance.

[WittyUsername]

There’s a far more likely chance that Dr. Gero was inspired by Dr. Wheelo from Movie 2 than him being inspired by a character from a game that was still extremely recent at the time. To be clear, I’m not necessarily saying that Gero was inspired by Wheelo either, although I wouldn’t be surprised if he was.

To be honest, I don’t think Dr.Gero was supposed to be anything but a name.. Originally 19 and 20 were supposed to be the androids that Trunks was talking about that killed their creator Dr.’ Gero and started their rampage on May 12th. It was only after Toriyama changed his mind about who the real androids were that 20 became Gero as a necessity to bring out the “real androids” and he ended up becoming Dr. Wheelo 2.0

Are we certain that #20 wasn’t always meant to be Dr. Gero, even before 19 and 20 were retconned into not being the androids Trunks warned about?

[MasenkoHA]

There’s a far more likely chance that Dr. Gero was inspired by Dr. Wheelo from Movie 2 than him being inspired by a character from a game that was still extremely recent at the time. To be clear, I’m not necessarily saying that Gero was inspired by Wheelo either, although I wouldn’t be surprised if he was.

To be honest, I don’t think Dr.Gero was supposed to be anything but a name.. Originally 19 and 20 were supposed to be the androids that Trunks was talking about that killed their creator Dr.’ Gero and started their rampage on May 12th. It was only after Toriyama changed his mind about who the real androids were that 20 became Gero as a necessity to bring out the “real androids” and he ended up becoming Dr. Wheelo 2.0

Are we certain that #20 wasn’t always meant to be Dr. Gero, even before 19 and 20 were retconned into not being the androids Trunks warned about?

Considering 19 and 20’s debuts https://www.kanzenshuu.com/manga/db/chp-337
and the first hint that 20 is Dr.Gero came out nearly a month apart https://www.kanzenshuu.com/manga/db/chp-340

Yes it’s pretty safe to say 20 was not originally supposed to be Dr.Gero, especially since Trunks straight up says 19 and 20 killed Gero, before it got retconned that Trunks was talking about 17 and 18 and Gero turned himself into an Android in the altered timeline before 17 killed him

[jjgp1112]

I feel like Toriyama didn't intend 20 to be Gero when he first concepted the Andorid story but I'd bet my house that once he got to actually designing the characters that was his plan from his introduction. I can't see any other reason why he'd make him an old man.

[MasenkoHA]

I feel like Toriyama didn't intend 20 to be Gero when he first concepted the Andorid story but I'd bet my house that once he got to actually designing the characters that was his plan from his introduction. I can't see any other reason why he'd make him an old man.

It could be the case (as is Toriyama just having the androids show up seems uninspired so revealing the lead one is actually the vengeful mad scientist all along would be something) but the timing works out with the 3 week lead for Torishima to see the designs in the August 13th issue and give Toriyama shit so Toriyama plans the seeds for the retcon in time for the September 10th issue.


There’s no reason for Toriyama to make 19 a morbidly obese Chaozu but he did. He might have just been amusing himself. Gero didn’t necessarily need to be an elderly man. The fall of the Red Ribbon Army was only like 16 year priors to the androids.

[jjgp1112]

I feel like Toriyama didn't intend 20 to be Gero when he first concepted the Andorid story but I'd bet my house that once he got to actually designing the characters that was his plan from his introduction. I can't see any other reason why he'd make him an old man.

It could be the case (as is Toriyama just having the androids show up seems uninspired so revealing the lead one is actually the vengeful mad scientist all along would be something) but the timing works out with the 3 week lead for Torishima to see the designs in the August 13th issue and give Toriyama shit so Toriyama plans the seeds for the retcon in time for the September 10th issue.


There’s no reason for Toriyama to make 19 a morbidly obese Chaozu but he did. He might have just been amusing himself. Gero didn’t necessarily need to be an elderly man. The fall of the Red Ribbon Army was only like 16 year priors to the androids.

Well I think 19's design is more consistent with Toriyama's subversive villain designs, but I just think Toriyama just so happening to make the other Android a scary old man seems to be too much of a coincidence, especially since that's one of the standard archetypes for mad scientists.

[BernardoCairo]

Yeah, I agree with jjgp1112 here. Toriyama was a very visual artist, in the sense that all of his characters had unique looks that matched their backgrounds and motivations. Even in smaller works like Mamejiro, he made an effort to make the protagonist look like an inexperienced prick first and foremost (and also to balance his design well with his nerdy friend and strong father).
I don't think he would have created an old-looking android just for the sake of it. The choice had to be connected to the type of character he was trying to build. I think Android 20 was always meant to be Gero and this was supposed to be a big reveal/twist. I imagine Gero killing Goku at some point, the same way Cell did, and accomplishing his goals (although this is more of an educated guess than anything else).

[jjgp1112]

Yeah, I agree with jjgp1112 here. Toriyama was a very visual artist, in the sense that all of his characters had unique looks that matched their backgrounds and motivations. Even in smaller works like Mamejiro, he made an effort to make the protagonist look like an inexperienced prick first and foremost (and also to balance his design well with his nerdy friend and strong father).
I don't think he would have created an old-looking android just for the sake of it. The choice had to be connected to the type of character he was trying to build. I think Android 20 was always meant to be Gero and this was supposed to be a big reveal/twist. I imagine Gero killing Goku at some point, the same way Cell did, and accomplishing his goals (although this is more of an educated guess than anything else).

Yeah, and I also don't think he would've bothered even coming up with a name for Dr. Gero and establishing his motivation if he hadn't planned on making him a character that would be introduced; he was always pretty intentional with the things he added to the story.

[TKA]

To add, Toriyama's modus operandi is to introduce an unassuming character with a more imposing one (Tenshinhan-Chaozu, Piccolo Daimao-Piano, Nappa-Vegeta, Dabura-Babidi). 20 would've been more imposing if Toriyama hadn't figured out that he wants him to be Gero, I would wager.

[WittyUsername]

I’ll just say this; if #20 was not always meant to be Dr. Gero, then that would’ve been a waste. As jjgp1112 said, why even bother coming up with a name for the guy who created the artificial humans if he was never going to be relevant to the story afterwards? Toriyama could’ve just simply had Trunks say that the Red Ribbon Army created the artificial humans and left it at that.

[nineko]

As jjgp1112 said, why even bother coming up with a name for the guy who created the artificial humans if he was never going to be relevant to the story afterwards? Toriyama could’ve just simply had Trunks say that the Red Ribbon Army created the artificial humans and left it at that.

That, and he always had the chance to leave it at what the anime said, and recognise Doctor Flappe. At that time it would have been unprecedented, but he did do that with Bardok eventually.

[MasenkoHA]

As jjgp1112 said, why even bother coming up with a name for the guy who created the artificial humans if he was never going to be relevant to the story afterwards? Toriyama could’ve just simply had Trunks say that the Red Ribbon Army created the artificial humans and left it at that.

That, and he always had the chance to leave it at what the anime said, and recognise Doctor Flappe. At that time it would have been unprecedented, but he did do that with Bardok eventually.

Well, no, he couldn’t, because Dr. Flappe was shown to be a good hearted man who was forced by the Red Ribbon Army to create #8. It would have made zero sense for Flappe to make new androids to kill Son Goku as revenge for destroying the Red Ribbon Army.

[MasenkoHA]

Yeah, I agree with jjgp1112 here. Toriyama was a very visual artist, in the sense that all of his characters had unique looks that matched their backgrounds and motivations. Even in smaller works like Mamejiro, he made an effort to make the protagonist look like an inexperienced prick first and foremost (and also to balance his design well with his nerdy friend and strong father).
I don't think he would have created an old-looking android just for the sake of it. The choice had to be connected to the type of character he was trying to build. I think Android 20 was always meant to be Gero and this was supposed to be a big reveal/twist. I imagine Gero killing Goku at some point, the same way Cell did, and accomplishing his goals (although this is more of an educated guess than anything else).

Apologies for double posting but this post had me thinking.

Is it not possible Toriyama was trying to convey immortality (given that they’re machines who will live forever) so he designed 19 and 20 to resemble a Jiangshi and Sennin respectively to reflect that? Like an evil Chaozu and Roshi


Not that “ 20 was meant to invoke a sinister sennin” and “he was Gero all along “ are mutually exclusive, but I don’t think 20 being a old geezer is enough to lend itself to Toriyama definitely had him as Gero in mind when creating him.

“He could have just said the Red Ribbon Army created them”’ doesn’t really work because there was no longer a Red Ribbon Army.

Though even if he didn’t have Gero in mind when designing the 20, if he had stuck to his guns and kept 19 and 20 as the main villains, he might have still eventually come to the decision to reveal 20 was Gero

[Saiya6Cit]

Maybe.

If I remember correctly Toriyama wanted to end Z since Freezer saga, but they had to revive Vegeta, give him a son and fill up the series with a whole bunch of sci fi ... I am not complaining, but the point I am trying to make is Toriyama was out of ideas, he had made a Dragon Ball and that was when he created original dragon ball. He was demanded by his employer to make the story longer (which is why I did not decide to dedicate myself to professional comic creation: The author barely ever gets permission to deliver a work of art without censorship and having to comply with specific job demands...).

Toriyama took inspiration from wherever he could to continue DBZ. Alien, Terminator, Back to the future, Predator, Rocky, Toriyama was rich and he could afford going to the movies and buying american magazines. We know he was a fan of western culture. Was he inspired by Sega and Sonic? maybe, he had children and they almost always like sonic and company and videogames are well accepted in Japan since the early times, it could be.

[WittyUsername]

Yeah, I agree with jjgp1112 here. Toriyama was a very visual artist, in the sense that all of his characters had unique looks that matched their backgrounds and motivations. Even in smaller works like Mamejiro, he made an effort to make the protagonist look like an inexperienced prick first and foremost (and also to balance his design well with his nerdy friend and strong father).
I don't think he would have created an old-looking android just for the sake of it. The choice had to be connected to the type of character he was trying to build. I think Android 20 was always meant to be Gero and this was supposed to be a big reveal/twist. I imagine Gero killing Goku at some point, the same way Cell did, and accomplishing his goals (although this is more of an educated guess than anything else).

Apologies for double posting but this post had me thinking.

Is it not possible Toriyama was trying to convey immortality (given that they’re machines who will live forever) so he designed 19 and 20 to resemble a Jiangshi and Sennin respectively to reflect that? Like an evil Chaozu and Roshi


Not that “ 20 was meant to invoke a sinister sennin” and “he was Gero all along “ are mutually exclusive, but I don’t think 20 being a old geezer is enough to lend itself to Toriyama definitely had him as Gero in mind when creating him.

“He could have just said the Red Ribbon Army created them”’ doesn’t really work because there was no longer a Red Ribbon Army.

Though even if he didn’t have Gero in mind when designing the 20, if he had stuck to his guns and kept 19 and 20 as the main villains, he might have still eventually come to the decision to reveal 20 was Gero

I guess I should’ve specified. Trunks probably could’ve simply said that some surviving RRA members created the artificial humans, without attributing them to a specific name. Plus, we’re not shown what Dr. Gero looks like when Trunks is explaining to Goku who the guy is, so I feel like that might lend credence to the idea that Toriyama was planning for the big twist to be that #20 is Dr. Gero.

[BernardoCairo]

I guess I should’ve specified. Trunks probably could’ve simply said that some surviving RRA members created the artificial humans, without attributing them to a specific name. Plus, we’re not shown what Dr. Gero looks like when Trunks is explaining to Goku who the guy is, so I feel like that might lend credence to the idea that Toriyama was planning for the big twist to be that #20 is Dr. Gero.

That and the fact that Gero wasn't just a name drop. They talked about him and his lab, even establishing some connection between him and Bulma. Plus, there was that whole moral issue surrounding whether or not to kill him. Toriyama was definitely setting him up for something.
Case in point, 8# didn't have an established creator until Gero showed up. Toriyama didn't bother with that detail, unlike what he eventually did with the Z Androids. As far as we knew, 8# and Major Metallitron were random robots created by the Red Ribbon Army, and that worked.

Is it not possible Toriyama was trying to convey immortality (given that they’re machines who will live forever) so he designed 19 and 20 to resemble a Jiangshi and Sennin respectively to reflect that? Like an evil Chaozu and Roshi

This is an amazing angle that I hadn't considered. I'll think about it. But the connection between old geezers and crazy lab scientists is way too strong (especially at the time) for me to just ignore it completely. Even in Dragon Ball, we had Bulma's father and Dr. Flappe (in the anime). And in Dr. Slump, of course, we had Dr. Mashirito (although he didn't look that old like the others).