Is Dragon Ball Z, Super, and Daima consider to be "Holy Trinity"?

[PowerPhantom245]

Does any one consider Dragon Ball Z, Super, and Daima, a "Holy Trinity"?
Even though there has only been 5 anime series (original, Z, GT, Super, and Daima), Z is always the most popular, and Super and Daima is proper continuation of Z (ignore/retcon GT), where they are also popular (Daima is still new).

This sounds controversial, my personal Holy Trinity is original, Z, and GT; I still like Super and Daima, despite few issues, but for nostalgia sake and retrospective wise, I enjoyed the older series better, which (for the most part) aged very well.
As I grew older, I have more appreciation for original series, which is the BEST of anime series.

What is your "Holy Trinity"?

[Vegeta th3 4th]

The original Dragon Ball is by far better than both Super and Daima, so that automatically gets a spot alongside Z. GT to me was a major disappointment, despite its good ideas. Super is one of the worst anime ever produced, so that's automatically disqualified. That leaves Daima taking the third spot in my trinity. Although it was the shortest of the three sequels we got, it was by far the best handled.

[MasenkoHA]

Haven’t seen Daima yet so maybe that would be my third? I don’t really care about Super or GT all that much. As of now it’s just Dragon Ball 86 and Dragon Ball Z for me.

[Cold Skin]

For me, Dragon Ball Kai, Dragon Ball Super and Dragon Ball Daima.

Dragon Ball Z is not necessary when you got the update, with better picture quality, most fillers removed and better music than the outdated Kikuchi soundtrack that's not bombastic like it should be for what's essentially "gods fighting gods in a fantasy world to protect the whole planet".

Dragon Ball is mandatory for someone getting to know the story, but it suffers from the same flaws as Z: it's old.
BUT a remaster like the French AB Remaster that only half exists makes it bearable to watch once, and the Kikuchi tracks are less jarring for the childhood adventures that are not yet about "gods versus gods" but more "cute martial arts with a fantastic touch in a fantastic world for the hero's youthful years".

Dragon Ball GT was a weird continuation that looks like another anime on which Dragon Ball "skins"/appearances were pasted to call it a continuation of sorts. Something in the colors, the landscape graphics, the weird story, the looks of the characters, screams "you're not supposed to be here anymore for this part of the story, you're not supposed to see how things have grown distasteful with years and beyond recognition" and makes me ill at ease watching it (which I've done twice, the second time being a few months ago just to give it another chance). This is... not Dragon Ball, it's a weird thing using the Dragon Ball look for characters with a weird atmosphere overall.

That leaves the three others, which are perfectly fine to rewatch again from time to time, each with their own charms.
Dragon Ball Kai is the correct adaptation of the original manga with some flaws removed, Dragon Ball Super is the franchise's top with the lore expanded and the characters and their "one big family constantly all interacting with each other" dynamic where they should rightfully be, plus outdated characters rehabilitated to be more stylish than ever before and eventful again, and Daima is a fun, short otherworldly extra adventure.

[Kaboom]

For all its ups and downs, there's still just no worthy substitute for the original DB/Z/GT trilogy. That's the "holy trinity" if anything, and the soulless modern tripe pales in comparison no matter how much some segments of the fanbase want to pretend it's more valuable just by default.

[MasenkoHA]

Dragon Ball Z is not necessary when you got the update, with better picture quality, most fillers removed and better music than the outdated Kikuchi soundtrack that's not bombastic like it should be for what's essentially "gods fighting gods in a fantasy world to protect the whole planet".

This argument falls completely apart when the default official version of the first 98 episodes of Kai not only does use the Kikuchi score but very badly at that.

Dragon Ball is mandatory for someone getting to know the story, but it suffers from the same flaws as Z: it's old.

Its flaw is that it’s old is also a weak argument. Why are so many of you all allergic to series older than 15 years?

Dragon Ball Kai is the correct adaptation of the original manga with some flaws removed

It reduces the first 194 chapters into a recap, keeps a whole bunch of filler without the excuse of running concurrent with the manga and needing to stall for time. And the Japanese cast is mostly half assing their performance. Then there’s the whole censorship with very little of it justified (other than the strobing lights in beam blast being slowed and dimmed down and the child nudity being removed there’s no excuse for the censorship) What exactly makes it the correct adaptation?

It’s a bit faster paced is about the only thing Kai has going for it, otherwise it’s a massive downgrade in every other aspect.

[JulieYBM]

I don't think that I would consider anything like a 'Holy Trinity' for Dragon Ball. The series is simply too inconsistent.

That being said, here are three stories that I think are watch to take a look at: Dragon Ball Super: Broly, Dragon Ball Z: The Strongest Guy in the World, and Dragon Ball Super (anime) Tournament of Power arc. They're all flawed works, but each story has some fun storytelling and animation that makes the mind want to go further and further with where you can take those works. I've talked at length about the former and the later a lot, so I'd like to focus more on the fifth film.

The music, sound design, art design, and colors make Dr. Uirou and his ilk so unsettling and atmospheric. It's a vibe that I wish was repeates more in Dragon Ball. In addition to being a cool-looking big brain, I' fascinated to learn more about Uirou and his past. How exactly was he planning on his plans, should he take over the body of the Muten Roushi? Was he going to pull a Piccolo Daimaou and just infiltrate the World King's palace? Would he use his bio warriors to replace the military?

I wish I had more time to write, this would be a fun story to write lol

[Dragon Ball Ireland]

Nope, original Dragon Ball, or the first 16 volumes of the manga are essential watching/reading for getting to know Toriyama's world and characters, so you can't leave that out.

Dragon Ball Z may be a flawed follow-up, and I prefer Kai in some respects, but its still an iconic show that got the vast majority of the English-speaking world into the franchise. I'd consider it a must watch/read as much as what came before.

Dragon Ball GT is an interesting case. I hear some describe it, as well as everything that came after as DLC. It's content you can enjoy, but is not necessary. I'd say if you want to experience the original classic run you should still watch it. It was made straight after Z so production wise it will still flow the best from the preceding shows.

Not to mention if you've watched 444 episodes and 2 specials another 64 plus a special isn't that much more. You may as well finish what you started. After 1997 we get more into what is perhaps optional.

Dragon Ball Kai is just another way of watching Z, albeit without a counterpart for the earlier portion of the story, which makes it feel like its own thing separate from the original anime run. Then of course there's the inconsistency between the first 98 episodes and the Boo arc, the latter has a green tint and drastically different score for example.

When it comes to Dragon Ball Super.... I think it can be fun, but ultimately it is a corporately driven midquel that came decades after the original anime run, so naturally its hard to fit in with earlier productions and is better viewed as it's own thing. You could say it is more consistent with Kai from the production staff moving seamlessly between the two and the Sumitomo score in the Boo arc connecting both.

I see Dragon Ball Daima in the same light as Super. It's an enjoyable show for what it is, a modern take on Dragon Ball with new stories. Of course it was made many years after Super, has a different composer and is set chronologically before it, so it works better as a standalone than part of any trilogy.

Daima also has a different animation style than Super, so it's hard to put them together in light of that, and obviously when Dragon Ball Z was being made animation wasn't digitally coloured, everything was on cels. We even see with Kai how jarring the redrawn shots are when shown together with older animation from Dragon Ball Z.

So, in short, I think I'd agree with Kaboom that if there was any "Holy Trinity" of the anime it would have to be the 1986-1997 run simply on the basis of consistency and the fact that was what made the series a global phenomenon.

Do the 1986, 1989 and 1996 anime have flaws, both individually and as a cohesive whole? Yes, all art does, but we love works warts and all because everything is a product of its time with the limitations they had.

Kai, Super and Daima all feel like varying degrees of trying to recapture lightning in a bottle, which rarely works.

[goku the krump dancer]

For all its ups and downs, there's still just no worthy substitute for the original DB/Z/GT trilogy. That's the "holy trinity" if anything, and the soulless modern tripe pales in comparison no matter how much some segments of the fanbase want to pretend it's more valuable just by default.

I agree, full stop! After we were served that debacle called “Daima”, I find myself saying “Toriyama’s great but THANK GOD he had editors!”

[Vegeta th3 4th]

I agree, full stop! After we were served that debacle called “Daima”, I find myself saying “Toriyama’s great but THANK GOD he had editors!”

Although I don't agree with the Daima part of your comment, I completely agree with the second part. I'll throw Toei's writers in there as well, as they did a lot to flesh out the world and characters of the original manga. A recent interview with his three editors revealed that it was their idea to create a villain like Freeza; that's how essential they were to the franchise's success. Can you imagine a Dragon Ball without both Freeza and Cell ?

Dragon Ball GT is an interesting case. I hear some describe it, as well as everything that came after as DLC. It's content you can enjoy, but is not necessary.

Out of the three sequels we got, I'd Say Daima fits the DLC description the best. It's only one arc made up of 20 episodes, and it involves a story that's linked directly to Z's Buu arc: the demon realm. Daima honestly doesn't really work on its own, while Super and GT do...to a certain degree. Dragon Ball Z: Daima would've been a more fitting name for it.

Why are so many of you all allergic to series older than 15 years?

Because they're not shiny and plastic-looking enough.

It’s a bit faster paced is about the only thing Kai has going for it, otherwise it’s a massive downgrade in every other aspect.

Even the pacing is a mess with how inconsistent it is. The Saiyan arc is a near page by page of the manga, while the Namek and Cell arcs are noticeably slower. The Buu arc is nearly 1:1 with Z, so I don't even know why they bothered with it.

[ScouterSSJ]

Unfortunately I can't considere animes that destroy their manga "holy trinities".
Dragon Ball GT, anime Super and Daima both share the same problems: they don't feel Dragon Ball because they don't respect Toriyama's writting style (which is what made Dragon Ball the success it became).
DBZ and OG DB were much better in that sense, but DBZ still had tons of filler in his fights that completely destroyed them (fortunately the fight vs Vegeta, the best one ever made, was adapted without any destructive filler but some other major fights were completely botched by the anime -like the one vs Frieza, or the final clash between Gohan and Cell).

Now, a remake of OG DB and Z without any filler (or filler that respected Toriyama's writting, that would be even better) and the animation quality of Daima or the best TOP anime episodes, that would be God reincarnated itself LoL

I agree, full stop! After we were served that debacle called “Daima”, I find myself saying “Toriyama’s great but THANK GOD he had editors!”

Daima's debacle is precisely due to the parts were Toriyama wasn't involved... aka, bad fights and very bad and inconsistent power-scaling.

[Vegeta th3 4th]

Now, a remake of OG DB and Z without any filler (or filler that respected Toriyama's writting) and the animation quality of Daima or the best TOP anime episodes, that would be God reincarnated itself LoL.

A modern remake would be censored into oblivion. That thing would not have a single drop of blood in it, or any of the brutal fight choreography. What it will have is references galore of the modern material, particularly Super. You'll have Freeza on Namek talking about SsjG like he did in Minus. The only thing I would like to see Toei do with the classic material (you can throw GT and the old movies in as well) is to properly remaster and color correct them from the ground up.

[ScouterSSJ]

Now, a remake of OG DB and Z without any filler (or filler that respected Toriyama's writting) and the animation quality of Daima or the best TOP anime episodes, that would be God reincarnated itself LoL.

A modern remake would be censored into oblivion. That thing would not have a single drop of blood in it, or any of the brutal fight choreography. What it will have is references galore of the modern material, particularly Super. You'll have Freeza on Namek talking about SsjG like he did in Minus. The only thing I would like to see Toei do with the classic material (you can throw GT and the old movies in as well) is to properly remaster and color correct them from the ground up.

I'm afraid that's what would happen...
Well, I don't mind some references like Frieza speaking of the SSJGod as its still a legend and doesn't break the OG work, but the other points you've brought are too brutal, most probable and also too depressive only to think about...
So yeah, if they have to do it like this, it's best if they don't do it at all T_T

[JulieYBM]

Dragon Ball productions should keep disrespecting the 1984-1995 Dragon Ball comic. They should swing for the fences more in general, not play it safe by trying to mimic Toriyama or by appealing to merchandising partners' exact restrictions.

[Kendamu]

My holy trinity is DBZ Movies 1-3 with the Canadian cast.

My big three DB anime are Dragon Ball, DBZ, and Daima.

Super is fine, but I like Daima more.

[Grimlock]

What is your "Holy Trinity"?

"Holy trinity"? Huh, I guess that would be Bardock TV Special, Trunks TV Special and Movie 12 for me. Seeing as I'm always going back to them more often compared to anything else. And they are the most untouchable works in the sense that they cannot, must not and will never be replaced.

Since this thread is in the general franchise section, I think I will add a "Holy Trinity" for games: Dragon Ball Online, Dragon Ball Heroes and Dragon Ball Xenoverse 2.

Honorable mention: A second "holy trinity" would be the Tarble OVA, Bardock OVA and Movie 14. Same reason as above but to a lesser extent, and they are also short works.

[Jack Bz]

DB Multiverse, DBZ Abridged, and Dragon Ball Evolution are my holy trinity.

Bonus points to the original DB manga since it started it all, I guess. It walked to allow the other things I mentioned to soar!

[Vegeta th3 4th]

I've thought about this some more and have come to the conclusion that there isn't a holy trinity, but rather a holy two: Dragon Ball and Dragon Ball Z. Is it really fair to say any of the 5 series we got after Z is anywhere near as good as it and DB are ?

GT: It has the same art style as them, but that's where the similarities end. Great ideas, mediocre to terrible execution.
Kai : From skipping DB to the music fiasco and everything in-between, everything that could've gone wrong, went wrong.
Super & Heroes: Shit in animation form. There's not a single redeemable thing about either of them, just a waste of time.
Daima: By far the best of the group, but despite only being 20 episodes long, it still had pacing and writing issues.

The Dragon Ball manga and its two anime adaptions (DB & Z) is a really good Shonen series that inspired some of the most popular series around nowadays. That images deteriorates significantly when you add any of the other series to it. Daima could've made the cut if the writers were able to produce a more polished script, but despite having two years to do so, they fell short for whatever reason. On its surface, Dragon Ball looks like a simple series to get right, but as we've seen from the FIVE attempts to do so following the conclusion of the original run, that couldn't be further form the truth.

DB Multiverse, DBZ Abridged, and Dragon Ball Evolution are my holy trinity.

There's someone, somewhere out there who will look at this and agree 100%.

[ScouterSSJ]

The original Dragon Ball manga is still the best shounen ever made even today, besides the impact it had in other series, so for me that's one.
Then when it comes to Dragon Ball products and despite its many shortcomings, the only reasonable second place is the Dragon Ball Super manga until the Granolah arc (SH was a huge downgrade in quality due to the imposed script changes by that -put the biggest insult you can think here- producer).
And third the DBS movies (including the first 2 DBZ ones). They resurrected the franchise, Toriyama wrote a lot of the script for them and besides Super Heroes they're all excellent and much better than any of the Toei movies.

Maybe RoF is a bit weak in the sense that it didn't work well as a movie but when it comes to the main plot it was very well written.

[Vegeta th3 4th]

Maybe RoF is a bit weak in the sense that it didn't work well as a movie but when it comes to the main plot it was very well written.

What plot ? Freeza comes back, fights the heroes, then loses. There was not a single plot twist or character development for anyone. That's no different from Z's old movies, but at least they had the excuse of being released every six months. Resurrection F was in development for two years, and it couldn't even give us an original villain. At least we got someone original in Z's old movies.