Dragon Ball power-levels until Cell (manga)

[ScouterSSJ]

Hi everyone!

I made a short video for my YouTube channel showcasing all the most relevant power levels from Raditz up to Cell, and I wanted to share it here with the Kanzenshuu experts to hear your thoughts.

The goal of the video is to show how power levels evolved in the series, starting from when they were first introduced and continuing past the Namek saga (which is when Toriyama stopped giving us actual numbers).

Since these power levels are based on the manga, I ignored any anime-only feats that contradict Toriyama’s work, so some numbers might be a bit different from what you might expect.
I’ve also included a few fighters who weren’t directly shown in the manga, but whose roles were significant enough to deserve a spot (like Cold’s first form, which played an important role in the events that defined the time-paradox).

I hope you enjoy the video! If you disagree with any of the numbers, I’d love to discuss it here. ^_^

https://youtu.be/mvVvx7PXOtw

[Hugo Boss]

Great job on organizing everything. I really appreciated the progression from Raditz to the early Namek stages.

That said, I’ll admit I started getting a bit lost once we got past Freeza’s transformations. The numbers started feeling less grounded in the manga material (I’m curious to know how you settled on Semi-Perfect Cell being below Freeza at full power). Maybe some additional context behind the jumps would help viewers follow your reasoning better.

[ScouterSSJ]

Great job on organizing everything. I really appreciated the progression from Raditz to the early Namek stages.

That said, I’ll admit I started getting a bit lost once we got past Freeza’s transformations. The numbers started feeling less grounded in the manga material (I’m curious to know how you settled on Semi-Perfect Cell being below Freeza at full power). Maybe some additional context behind the jumps would help viewers follow your reasoning better.

Thank you for the advice! I’ve updated the video’s subtitles to add more clarifications.

As for Frieza’s power compared to 2nd form Cell, there are a few things to consider:

Namek Goku was only able to match a badly injured Frieza in their fight (and in Dragon Ball, unless a fighter has infinite stamina, being that injured means losing most of your strength). Goku also needed several rage boosts and Frieza’s constant bad decisions to actually win—for example, Frieza provoking Goku by mocking Krillin's death (which made Goku enraged and restored his strength after Frieza’s attack had considerably weakened him), or choosing to fight Goku hand-to-hand, which was Goku’s specialty and Frieza’s weakest area (he only started to use Ki attacks once Goku quit the fight and already had too much advantage).

More importantly, even after training in the Room of Spirit and Time Goku still considers himself weaker than Frieza. He uses Frieza as a benchmark when estimating Cell’s power, which is how he’s so accurate about Cell’s hidden potential despite never having fought him. We also know that FPSSJ Goku was more than twice as strong as Super Vegeta, and Super Vegeta was already stronger than Semi-Perfect Cell.

One thing to note about this video: it only considers the maximum power a fighter could have at a given moment in the series. In other words, “100% Frieza” refers to his full power if he started fighting in his final form and immediately used all his strength. On Namek, though, Frieza had already lost some energy before transforming into his 1st form, and especially after taking the massive hit from the Genki Dama.
In other words, the highest power Frieza displays in the manga is a weakened 50%, because by the time he tires to use 100% of his strength he has already lost most of his power.

Hope this answers your question! ^_^

[Hugo Boss]

I don’t think that we should treat Freeza’s 100% power as something hypothetical or far above what we actually saw.

The manga frames his bulking up as him reaching his full power, and while it was rapidly declining due to stamina drain, it was still a real peak that he visibly achieved and used. His body couldn’t sustain it for long, but I don’t see any evidence that he didn’t fully access it. The issue was ki control and energy loss over time, not a hard cap preventing him from reaching that state altogether. If Goku thought Freeza wasn’t truly at his max due to prior damage, I feel like the dialogue would have leaned more in that direction.

As for the Cell comparison, I don’t recall Goku using Freeza as a benchmark when assessing Perfect Cell’s power in the manga. The last time Freeza was mentioned was right after Goku woke up from his heart virus disease and asked about what kind of threats had shown up. So I’m not sure that should factor into power scaling that far into the arc.

[ScouterSSJ]

I don’t think that we should treat Freeza’s 100% power as something hypothetical or far above what we actually saw.

The manga frames his bulking up as him reaching his full power, and while it was rapidly declining due to stamina drain, it was still a real peak that he visibly achieved and used. His body couldn’t sustain it for long, but I don’t see any evidence that he didn’t fully access it.

Yes, it really was his 100% of strength, but in Dragon Ball that's only relative to your current state.
In other words, after Frieza is cut in half by his own kienzan his power-level is close to 0 (he can't even fly), but he's still bulky and using 100% of his strength.
His body getting bulky and his stamina dropping are a consequence of him not having trained ever on his life, so that would've happened as well regardless of his state.
But after Goku leaves him badly injured with the Genkidama, it's obvious he's lost some strength there (how much can only be determined in the Cell saga, but since Frieza says he was badly injured and that the attack almost killed him, it seems obvious that it was a considerable amount of strength that he lost).

Injuries weakening a fighter is one of the basic rules of Dragon Ball from Raditz onwards, so Frieza being injured automatically means that he lost strength (only fighters with unlimited stamina doesn't lose strength with injuries).

The issue was ki control and energy loss over time, not a hard cap preventing him from reaching that state altogether. If Goku thought Freeza wasn’t truly at his max due to prior damage, I feel like the dialogue would have leaned more in that direction.

That would've killed the hype of the fight if it was reminded too often. It's in fact stated two times (first just after Frieza comes alive from the Genkidama, where he says that he's badly injured but still can kill them all and then when he sends Goku to the depths of that ocean/lake and says that if he's stuck in the planet explosion "I'll lose even more strength"), but Toriyama had to find that fine line between making everyone as excited as possible but also to maintain the internal coherence of his work.
In the androids saga he did this a lot more (it's the best written saga of the whole series, and even of nearly any series I've ever read).

As for the Cell comparison, I don’t recall Goku using Freeza as a benchmark when assessing Perfect Cell’s power in the manga. The last time Freeza was mentioned was right after Goku woke up from his heart virus disease and asked about what kind of threats had shown up. So I’m not sure that should factor into power scaling that far into the arc.

Yes, I remember that scene you mention (though it wasn't Goku asking about the menaces, but Krilin asking Goku if now that someone stronger than Frieza had appeared, if he was happy or in fear -to what Goku answered "both"-.
But I'm speaking after he comes out of the RoSaT. He suddenly is able to guess Cell's power so well that he even knows that Gohan will be able to beat him without going into the RoSaT for a second time.
Considering that Cell was made of Goku, Vegeta and Piccolo cells from the saiyan saga and Frieza and King Cold, and that's precisely the fact of Cell having Frieza's cells that motivates Goku to evolve the SSJ, that points towards Goku using Frieza's power as a reference to judge Cell.
Otherwise, how could he do it?
I mean, in front of Vegeta he wasn't able to feel his true power until Vegeta showed it, and against Frieza he was praying to god that him being at only 50% of his strength was a lie.
But when it comes to perfect Cell, he can guess Cell's power without even fighting against him. Considering Frieza was by far the strongest of the bunch,and how well Goku approximated Cell's power, the only explanation is that he used Frieza as a reference.

Furthermore, the untrained SSJ has to be weaker than the Kaio-Ken x20, otherwise the time-paradox of the Cell saga doesn't work. That alone proves that Frieza had to lose some strength with the Genkidama (as it happens to every fighter without unlimited stamina in the series from Raditz onwards).

[Hugo Boss]

I think we’re getting into some pretty speculative territory here. I completely agree that injuries weaken characters in Dragon Ball, I’m not denying that. But when Freeza declares he’s using 100% of his power, the story doesn’t suggest or imply he is lying or missing the effect of his prior damage. If Freeza was actually nowhere near his real max, the narrative wouldn’t make sense. That’s why Future Trunks and Future Goku were able to kill Mecha Freeza later, something they wouldn’t be able to do if they were only strong enough to beat a half-dead version of him.

Besides, I don’t think we need to put such effort to explain Goku’s read on Cell’s strength. Goku is repeatedly shown to have excellent battle sense intuition. He felt Perfect Cell’s power just like he sized up everyone else around him. There’s no scene suggesting he thought “I remember how strong Freeza was, so let me scale Cell from that.” It’s just not there.

That Krillin scene you’re referencing, with them talking about Cell endangering planets like Freeza, is more about method than power level. Krillin is concerned because Cell has Freeza’s cruelty and destructive instincts, not because it’s the first time they’ve seen someone stronger than Freeza. By the time Cell shows up, Androids 17 and 18 were already stronger than Super Saiyans that were above Freeza.

[ScouterSSJ]

I think we’re getting into some pretty speculative territory here. I completely agree that injuries weaken characters in Dragon Ball, I’m not denying that. But when Freeza declares he’s using 100% of his power, the story doesn’t suggest or imply he is lying or missing the effect of his prior damage. If Freeza was actually nowhere near his real max, the narrative wouldn’t make sense.

Frieza using 100% of his power and Frieza being at 100% of his real strength are two completely different things (in Dragon Ball at least).
Look at Vegeta vs Zarbon round 2, for example. Vegeta takes Zarbon by surprise and deals damage to him, and by the time Zarbon wants to get serious he's already too injured to fight.
Another good example is when Vegeta asks Krilin to attack him so he can get another Zenkay and fight Frieza. Vegeta lowers his power to a minimum, Krilin deals fatal damage and after the fact Vegeta is left with no strength at all.
But the best example, and one I think leaves no margin for doubts, is Cell. He's an improved version of Frieza, so there's no reason to think that once completed Frieza could be better than him in any way... yet Goku still had to give him a senzu bean so he could recover before his fight with Gohan.
And not only it would break the narrative coherence with other fights, but also within it's own fight. If Frieza isn't affected by the injuries he receives, why does he lose all of his strength after being cut in half by the kienzan?
Him losing all his strength after the fact proves that, once his huge defense was penetrated and he was affected by an attack, that he lost strength.
There's no narrative reason to think that just because Frieza didn't use his full power before, the damage he took didn't affect him... and tons of examples from before and after this fight, and from the fight itself, telling us that he had to be affected! ^_^

That’s why Future Trunks and Future Goku were able to kill Mecha Freeza later, something they wouldn’t be able to do if they were only strong enough to beat a half-dead version of him.

Mecha Frieza only had a fraction of the power of his original self. That scene was brilliantly written by Toriyama in order to both hype Trunks but not to break the power-scale of his work.
I have it explained in depth in my YT channel as part of the analysis of the Cell saga if you want to check it, but in short, Frieza didn't train after he was rebuild, so he wasn't aware of how strong (or weak) he was. He simply felt recovered, saw that he no longer had stamina problems when using 100% of strength (the weakness Goku warned him about in Namek) and rushed back to Earth to get his revenge.
In the video I have this proved manga at hand if you're interested on how I see the mecha-Frieza scene.
https://youtu.be/Wc86Sat8ORE

I think that what shows us Toriyama's true intentions is precisely Trunk's interaction with Goku. We're shown there that Trunks is not stronger than Goku was, and he trashed Mecha-Frieza like nothing. The same Goku that had problems against Namek Frieza.
If Toriyama just wanted to make Trunks that much stronger it was as easy as to show us his superiority over Goku but that was not the case, which coupled to Mecha's performance being comparable to Cold's at his 3rd form (a form we know has to be weaker than Frieza's equivalent form, since Cold was weaker than his son) allows us to see that it was Mecha being much weaker than he thought.

Besides, I don’t think we need to put such effort to explain Goku’s read on Cell’s strength. Goku is repeatedly shown to have excellent battle sense intuition. He felt Perfect Cell’s power just like he sized up everyone else around him. There’s no scene suggesting he thought “I remember how strong Freeza was, so let me scale Cell from that.” It’s just not there.

But here's the thing... Goku has never sized up anyone like he does with Cell. He always needs to fight them at least, and in some cases where the opponent has more power than expected, even after having fought them he is still surprised.
It's precisely him gauging Cell in a way he's never done before and will never do after that, that we know there has to be something more.
In the context of Frieza, Goku could approximate it thanks to Frieza telling him he was using 50% of his power and Goku having experienced it while using the KKx10 and KKx20 (before injurying him with the Genkidama, of course), and even if while in the fight at Namek there was no way for him to know how injured Frieza had become after the Genkidama, he surely got a good grasp of his power as a SSJ during the 3 years he trained as one with Piccolo, and realized how far he still was from Frieza.
That's why when speaking about a potentially completed Cell, someone with the potential to surpass Frieza, he was both "happy and scared".

That Krillin scene you’re referencing, with them talking about Cell endangering planets like Freeza, is more about method than power level. Krillin is concerned because Cell has Freeza’s cruelty and destructive instincts, not because it’s the first time they’ve seen someone stronger than Freeza. By the time Cell shows up, Androids 17 and 18 were already stronger than Super Saiyans that were above Freeza.

I think you should re-read that scene (or watch the video where I analyze it among other scenes) to refresh your memory, because no one says nothing about any planet being in danger there.
Krilin asks Goku if now that a being that is stronger than Frieza has appeared (speaking about a potentially completed Cell, since Goku didn't want to help them defeat the monster before he got completed) he's happy or afraid, to which Goku answers "both".
If Frieza had been surpassed by the SSJ and the androids Guero made (something that would contradict Guero's character arc, by the way), that dialogue would make no sense.
If you're interested in the video where I analyze it in the context of other dialogues from the manga, there you have it (those videos are in my mother tongue and subtitled in english by me, so I'm aware that them being quite long and one having to read may not be the most enticing way to spend one's time, so that's why I give my answer as if I didn't link the videos. They're just extra material in order to explain what I think Toriyama wanted to transmit with his work and of course relevant to the topic at hand, but not meant to be necessary to understand my answer).
https://youtu.be/OQOFOrzqmCg

[Hugo Boss]

There's no narrative reason to think that just because Frieza didn't use his full power before, the damage he took didn't affect him... and tons of examples from before and after this fight, and from the fight itself, telling us that he had to be affected! ^_^

When Freeza says he’s using 100%, the story takes him at his word. Goku treats it seriously and the fight continues until his stamina gives out.

Chapter: 325 (DBZ 131), P8.2-5
Context: after Goku and full-power Freeza have fought for a while
Goku: “I quit. [ ] As a backlash from you using your 100% power, you’ve passed your peak, and your ki is steadily dropping…I’m starting to think that there’s no point in fighting any more than this…”

Chapter: 325 (DBZ 131), P9.1
Context: Goku continues to explains why he doesn’t feel like fighting Freeza anymore
Goku: “I’m already satisfied. Your pride is in tatters…Someone has appeared who surpasses you, Freeza, who supposedly no one in this world could surpass…And this person was merely a Saiyan…”

If the narrative intended to signal that this was not truly Freeza’s full strength due to prior damage, Goku’s dialogue or even Freeza’s own lines would’ve said so.

Mecha Frieza only had a fraction of the power of his original self.

Mecha Freeza was stronger.

Chapter: 329 (DBZ 135), P14.1
Cold: “A small planet…Wouldn’t it be better if you just wiped it out in one shot?”
Freeza: “That wouldn’t satisfy me…I want to make [Goku] well acquainted with my powered-up self…”

Chapter: 330 (DBZ 136), P13.3-4
Cold: “The Earthlings don’t matter, but the Super Saiyan alone we absolutely must exterminate, by any means. The one who holds the greatest power in the universe must without a doubt be our clan”
Freeza: “We can definitely defeat him if we go at him together, Papa. And I’ve powered up too, so I think I can probably go alone.”

Trying to explain that away by arguing Mecha Freeza was somehow weaker than before is rewriting what the story directly tells us.

I think you should re-read that scene (or watch the video where I analyze it among other scenes) to refresh your memory, because no one says nothing about any planet being in danger there.
Krilin asks Goku if now that a being that is stronger than Frieza has appeared (speaking about a potentially completed Cell, since Goku didn't want to help them defeat the monster before he got completed) he's happy or afraid, to which Goku answers "both".

When it comes to what’s actually there on the page, I think you’re attributing a lot of subtext that just doesn’t exist.

Chapter: 365 (DBZ 171), P2.1
Context: talking about Cell’s menace
Piccolo: “It’s not just the Earth…This could turn out terrible for all the planets in the universe…Don’t forget that he has the blood of Freeza and his father…”

Chapter: 366 (DBZ 172), P3.5
Context: after Goku recovers from his illness
Goku: “The way I am now, I definitely can’t beat the androids or this ‘Cell’ guy.”

Chapter: 366 (DBZ 172), P4.5-6
Kuririn: “Goku, tell us—This thing’s even more terrible than Freeza. Are you scared by that? Or excited?”
Goku: “…Both…”

Krillin never implied that only Perfect Cell would be stronger than Freeza. Goku already acknowledged that he couldn’t beat Cell even at his initial level.

Also, other instances in which Freeza was mentioned…

Chapter: 332 (DBZ 138), P6.1-2
Context: after Trunks kills Freeza
Cold: “My, you are capable, aren’t you? Marvelous, truly more than I imagined…To think that you could wipe my son Freeza out in that instant…How about it? Will you take Freeza’s place and become my child? Certainly you, the strongest in the universe, are qualified to join my clan.”

Chapter: 356 (DBZ 162), P3.1
God: “Things turned out this way against the androids…Even for that ‘Trunks’ boy who came from the future and instantly obliterated Freeza and his father…and even for Vegeta, whose abilities are even greater than Trunks…”


By the way, are you one of freezamite bot accounts?

[Jack Bz]

Freeza's 2nd transformation (the xenomorph one) being stronger than SSJ Goku is just straight up one of if not THE most nonsensical power level statements I've ever seen, and I've seen a lot of nonsensical stuff over the years! I don't know if I've seen anyone anywhere have that opinion.

I’m curious to know how you settled on Semi-Perfect Cell being below Freeza at full power

Not even just that. Apparently he's even stronger than SSJ Gohan from the cell saga!

[ScouterSSJ]

When Freeza says he’s using 100%, the story takes him at his word. Goku treats it seriously and the fight continues until his stamina gives out
Chapter: 325 (DBZ 131), P8.2-5
Context: after Goku and full-power Freeza have fought for a while
Goku: “I quit. [ ] As a backlash from you using your 100% power, you’ve passed your peak, and your ki is steadily dropping…I’m starting to think that there’s no point in fighting any more than this…”

Chapter: 325 (DBZ 131), P9.1
Context: Goku continues to explains why he doesn’t feel like fighting Freeza anymore
Goku: “I’m already satisfied. Your pride is in tatters…Someone has appeared who surpasses you, Freeza, who supposedly no one in this world could surpass…And this person was merely a Saiyan…”

If the narrative intended to signal that this was not truly Freeza’s full strength due to prior damage, Goku’s dialogue or even Freeza’s own lines would’ve said so.

Again, one thing is using 100% of your (remaining) power and another very different one being at 100% of your power.
Your quotes make reference to Frieza's low stamina, which is one thing that has nothing to do with how injured he was.
Regarding his injuries, we have those quotes:
Chapter: 317 (DBZ 123), P10.3, P12.1
Context: after getting hit with the Genki-Dama
Freeza: “Ev-even I thought I would die…I, the great Freeza, was pushed to the brink of death…[ ] Even having taken this damage, I can still easily defeat all of you!”
I mean, that's the relevant quote for the subject we're speaking of, and Frieza having lost strength is clearly implied in the "Even having taken this damage, I can still easily defeat all of you".
One doesn't say this if his power hasn't fell even a bit.
And this one is not in the strength checker but I'm pretty sure that at chapter 323, after sending Goku to the bottom of the lake/ocean Frieza says:
"I have to leave the planet, if I'm stuck in the explosion I'll lose even more strength" again reinforcing the idea that he's not at his full strength.
Heck, when Goku quits is because Frieza isn't as strong... despite Frieza still using his 100%!
If you can understand that his 100% after he's tired is lower than his 100% just after using it, what's so hard about understanding that his 100% while badly injured was much weaker than his 100% in full health?

Mecha Freeza was stronger.

Chapter: 329 (DBZ 135), P14.1
Cold: “A small planet…Wouldn’t it be better if you just wiped it out in one shot?”
Freeza: “That wouldn’t satisfy me…I want to make [Goku] well acquainted with my powered-up self…”

Chapter: 330 (DBZ 136), P13.3-4
Cold: “The Earthlings don’t matter, but the Super Saiyan alone we absolutely must exterminate, by any means. The one who holds the greatest power in the universe must without a doubt be our clan”
Freeza: “We can definitely defeat him if we go at him together, Papa. And I’ve powered up too, so I think I can probably go alone.”

Trying to explain that away by arguing Mecha Freeza was somehow weaker than before is rewriting what the story directly tells us.

That's completely ignoring half of the equation, that is, the context in what those things were said.
Captain Ginyu, after stealing Goku's body, said he was now faster than before.
But then he was so slow that even Krilin was able to fight him, and when his power level was measured, he couldn't believe he was only 23.000
The exact same happens to Frieza. He thinks he's recovered and assumes that now he's stronger because he can go at 100% of strength without getting tired (the weakness Goku warned him about).
But he's trashed by Trunks like nothing, who has the same power as Goku... the same Goku that barely managed to win a badly injured Frieza.
Mecha Frieza's power being nothing compared to Namek is directly stated by Gohan by the way:
Chapter: 330 (DBZ 136), P9.7
Yamcha: “So this guy called ‘Fr…Freeza’ has such terrible…ab…absurdly large ki…?”
Gohan: “This isn’t it…he gets much, much stronger…!”

Of course Gohan assumed Frieza would've been as powerful as he was at Namek and thought he was transformed to contain his power, but the fact of the matter is that Mecha Frieza was going at 100% of strength (that's why he doesn't power up in front of Trunks, and also why he's so confident about having resolved his weakness despite not having trained at all).
Dragon ball isn't as simple as taking everything that's said for granted, much less when we have conflicting info on the table.
By the way, Mecha's performance being on par with his father's 3rd form (seen when both dodge Trunks' attack at similar speeds) also proves how weakened he was.

.
When it comes to what’s actually there on the page, I think you’re attributing a lot of subtext that just doesn’t exist.

Chapter: 365 (DBZ 171), P2.1
Context: talking about Cell’s menace
Piccolo: “It’s not just the Earth…This could turn out terrible for all the planets in the universe…Don’t forget that he has the blood of Freeza and his father…”

Chapter: 366 (DBZ 172), P3.5
Context: after Goku recovers from his illness
Goku: “The way I am now, I definitely can’t beat the androids or this ‘Cell’ guy.”

Chapter: 366 (DBZ 172), P4.5-6
Kuririn: “Goku, tell us—This thing’s even more terrible than Freeza. Are you scared by that? Or excited?”
Goku: “…Both…”

Krillin never implied that only Perfect Cell would be stronger than Freeza. Goku already acknowledged that he couldn’t beat Cell even at his initial level.

Firstly, you're mixing two different dialogues: Piccolo's and Goku's. Piccolo is worried about the whole universe due to Cell having Frieza cells... and Frieza being that powerful (otherwise there would be no reason to be worried at all if he was already much stronger than Frieza).
If Piccolo wasn't speaking about Frieza's power, then why does Vegeta remind him that Cell also has his cells as if he was left out and felt offended by it?
The same regarding Goku's conversation. He says he can't beat the current Cell, but there's also the fact that he doesn't help Piccolo kill him and also that the question doesn't make any sense in the context of there being at least 2 more androids besides Cell surpassing Frieza and Goku himself being able to beat him so easily...
I mean, hey Goku are you afraid that there's one enemy more terrible than someone that you can beat easily and also 2 more enemies that I don't mention because... it simply doesn't make any sense if they're not speaking about a potentially completed Cell.

.
Also, other instances in which Freeza was mentioned…

Chapter: 332 (DBZ 138), P6.1-2
Context: after Trunks kills Freeza
Cold: “My, you are capable, aren’t you? Marvelous, truly more than I imagined…To think that you could wipe my son Freeza out in that instant…How about it? Will you take Freeza’s place and become my child? Certainly you, the strongest in the universe, are qualified to join my clan.”

Chapter: 356 (DBZ 162), P3.1
God: “Things turned out this way against the androids…Even for that ‘Trunks’ boy who came from the future and instantly obliterated Freeza and his father…and even for Vegeta, whose abilities are even greater than Trunks…”

If Frieza wasn't aware of how weak he had turned, it's obvious Cold wasn't aware either...
And God knew nothing about Frieza at Namek... so they're not a good reference.

By the way, are you one of freezamite bot accounts?

What? I've got a YT channel for more than 1 year now where I've published more than 60 videos, I'm no bot of no one...

Freeza's 2nd transformation (the xenomorph one) being stronger than SSJ Goku is just straight up one of if not THE most nonsensical power level statements I've ever seen, and I've seen a lot of nonsensical stuff over the years! I don't know if I've seen anyone anywhere have that opinion.

I’m curious to know how you settled on Semi-Perfect Cell being below Freeza at full power

Not even just that. Apparently he's even stronger than SSJ Gohan from the cell saga!

Frieza's 2nd form being higher in "power" (in power-level, in reality) than SSJ Goku is due to Frieza's extraordinary defense. Power-levels are not just the strength of someone, as proven when Goku takes off his heavy clothes and his power level increases.
Power-level is the product of measuring physical strength, Ki, speed and defense. Frieza is the fighter with the highest defense of the whole series, and that has to be reflected in his PL (and I made his transformations have more defense the more transformed he was. That's why a 220K Vegeta -the power I estimated to him- was able to match a 530K Frieza in strength).

Regarding Gohan SSJ being below Frieza, that's not up for debate. Goku already knew Gohan wouldn't be able to beat Cell until he turned SSJ2, and if Goku guessed Cell's power through his estimate of Frieza's, it's obvious that Gohan's regular SSJ couldn't be stronger...
Otherwise Goku would've freaked out when Gohan was being beaten instead of that being part of his plan.

[Hugo Boss]

Again, one thing is using 100% of your (remaining) power and another very different one being at 100% of your power.

The thing is that Freeza never said he would use 100% of his remaining power.

Chapter: 317 (DBZ 123), P10.3, P12.1
Context: after getting hit with the Genki-Dama
Freeza: “Ev-even I thought I would die…I, the great Freeza, was pushed to the brink of death…[ ] Even having taken this damage, I can still easily defeat all of you!”
I mean, that's the relevant quote for the subject we're speaking of, and Frieza having lost strength is clearly implied in the "Even having taken this damage, I can still easily defeat all of you".

I’m not arguing against it. The point is that, despite this damage, Freeza still was able to power-up to 100%. Otherwise, Goku would feel something is off, considering he just felt what Freeza was like at 50%.

And this one is not in the strength checker but I'm pretty sure that at chapter 323, after sending Goku to the bottom of the lake/ocean Frieza says:
"I have to leave the planet, if I'm stuck in the explosion I'll lose even more strength" again reinforcing the idea that he's not at his full strength.

Pretty sure this is not the intended implication, otherwise it would be in the thread. Losing strength is a side effect of getting damage, but what Freeza is reinforcing there is that he is capable of destroying planets with relative ease, yet he is not invulnerable to the effects of their explosion.

Heck, when Goku quits is because Frieza isn't as strong... despite Frieza still using his 100%!
If you can understand that his 100% after he's tired is lower than his 100% just after using it, what's so hard about understanding that his 100% while badly injured was much weaker than his 100% in full health?

That’s because Freeza wasn’t at 100% anymore. His power level steadily dropped compared to when he activated it a few minutes earlier.

Mecha Frieza's power being nothing compared to Namek is directly stated by Gohan by the way:
Chapter: 330 (DBZ 136), P9.7
Yamcha: “So this guy called ‘Fr…Freeza’ has such terrible…ab…absurdly large ki…?”
Gohan: “This isn’t it…he gets much, much stronger…!”

That’s because Freeza’s ki wasn’t at his max, which is also reinforced by Trunks.

Chapter: 331 (DBZ 137), P9.1
Context: challenging Freeza and Cold
Trunks: “Come at me at full power right from the start. I’m not soft like Son Goku…”

If Piccolo wasn't speaking about Frieza's power, then why does Vegeta remind him that Cell also has his cells as if he was left out and felt offended by it?

Because their conversation is about who has the most destructive instinct, which Vegeta believed Cell would inherit from him.

The same regarding Goku's conversation. He says he can't beat the current Cell, but there's also the fact that he doesn't help Piccolo kill him and also that the question doesn't make any sense in the context of there being at least 2 more androids besides Cell surpassing Frieza and Goku himself being able to beat him so easily...
I mean, hey Goku are you afraid that there's one enemy more terrible than someone that you can beat easily and also 2 more enemies that I don't mention because... it simply doesn't make any sense if they're not speaking about a potentially completed Cell.

Despite them being much stronger than Freeza, the androids from this timeline don’t have wicked hearts. Krillin probably didn’t think an android that kissed him is more terrible than Freeza.

If Frieza wasn't aware of how weak he had turned, it's obvious Cold wasn't aware either...
And God knew nothing about Frieza at Namek... so they're not a good reference.

At this point, you’re just shifting the goalposts and doubling down on a interpretation that doesn’t align with the text or even basic logic.

What? I've got a YT channel for more than 1 year now where I've published more than 60 videos, I'm no bot of no one...

Honestly, if you’re not trolling us, your argument relies heavily on reading intentions into the text rather than from it, cherry-picking moments, misrepresenting scenes (like the Goku and Krillin exchange), and substituting actual textual evidence with “Toriyama surely meant this.” This is certainly something I’ve seen before.

[ScouterSSJ]

The thing is that Freeza never said he would use 100% of his remaining power.

What? Not only have I pointed to you a direct quote from Frieza stating that he's taken a ton of damage, but the "I STILL can easily beat all of you" part OF COURSE implies that he'll have to use his remaining power...
"I still can beat all of you" means that he's been considerably weakened, but that despite that he was still stronger than them all.

But even if Frieza didn't say what you conveniently want to ignore and he only said "Ev-even I thought I would die…I, the great Freeza, was pushed to the brink of death…", that alone would already imply that he's lost most of his strength because that's a basic internal rule from the series.
I mean, I have every major fight from the manga analyzed with real time power-levels precisely to proof how good Toriyama was as a writer and how every punch matters thanks to his style, and you come here telling me that someone injured taking damage is not implied anywhere? LoL
Here you have multiple examples that prove you wrong:
Vs Raditz:
https://youtu.be/tCCPDyMRxY4

Vs Nappa:
https://youtu.be/E4lRPpKbLbY

Vs Vegeta:
https://youtu.be/dD9ZrZ1BsDI

Vs Zarbon:
https://youtu.be/yZqYYlz0BvQ

And that's only from the fights I have analyzed in my channel and from BEFORE the Frieza fight (because Goku vs Ginyu is another great example of what happens when you're injured).
Then, after the Frieza fight, there's also tons of fights where this rule applies because... it's a basic rule from Dragon Ball that was applied, literally, to every single fight.
I mean, not only Frieza does say what you think he doesn't say (he doesn't say it with your words, but the meaning is obvious) but what you say it didn't happen and wasn't implied anywhere is one of the most basic rules from the series and one that's central to the development of Dragon Ball fights.

Another proof of your claim being nonsense is the fact that Frieza's 100% of strength gets weaker due to his low stamina.
I mean, think on it for a second and try not to enter in pure denial mode...
That's what Goku says:
Chapter: 325 (DBZ 131), P8.2-5
Context: after Goku and full-power Freeza have fought for a while
Goku: “I quit. [ ] As a backlash from you using your 100% power, you’ve passed your peak, and your ki is steadily dropping…I’m starting to think that there’s no point in fighting any more than this…”

So, you're telling me after reading this sentence from Goku, that Frieza's 100% wasn't about his remaining power but about his total power?
How come his 100% of power is weaker at chapter 325 than at chapter 321 then if it wasn't his remaining power? And why it would "steadily drop"?

I mean, at this point it's obvious that for some reason you want to ignore the almost fatal damage Frieza took from the Genkidama for "reasons".

I’m not arguing against it. The point is that, despite this damage, Freeza still was able to power-up to 100%. Otherwise, Goku would feel something is off, considering he just felt what Freeza was like at 50%.

The point is that no one takes that much damage without his power being affected, and Frieza literally says "Even having taken this damage, I can still easily defeat all of you!".
I mean at this point it's obvious that even if Toriyama in person said that SSJ Namek Goku wasn't stronger than Namek Frieza you wouldn't believe him... oh wait a second, he did say it!

Only, at the time, it was considered that his strength would increase 50-fold when he became a Super Saiyan, but that was a bit of an exaggeration. My feeling as the creator is that, while drawing it, I felt that it was about a 10-fold change from what it was up to that point.

So, let's recap for a second:
In every single fight from Raditz onwards (when Toriyama redesigned the action of the series) injuries impacting a fighter's power level is one of the core narrative rules.
In the Frieza fight, Frieza not only says that he's taken a lot of damage and it's clearly implied that he's weakened as a result, but his 100% constantly varies in strength due to his low stamina making it weaker by the time.
And finally, even the author of the series spoke about that scene and confirms that Frieza's power had to fall because SSJ Goku was just as strong as KKx10 Goku was at the beginning of the fight more or less...

Pretty sure this is not the intended implication, otherwise it would be in the thread. Losing strength is a side effect of getting damage, but what Freeza is reinforcing there is that he is capable of destroying planets with relative ease, yet he is not invulnerable to the effects of their explosion.

What? Even after having tried to spin the meaning of the sentence it still means what it means. "If I'm stuck in the explosion I'll lose even more strength" means of course that he won't be invulnerable to the "effects of the explosion", and that those effects would make him "lose even more strength".
So, if Namek's explosion (one that didn't kill him despite him having almost no strength) would already make him lose some strength, how come a brutal attack like the Genkidama that almost killed him didn't affect his power?

That’s because Freeza wasn’t at 100% anymore. His power level steadily dropped compared to when he activated it a few minutes earlier.

What? Are you saying that Frieza was only using 80% of his strength at that point and that he could've increased it to 100% again?
Of course Frieza was at 100% of power all the time, that's why his body never decrease in mass because he's still forcing it to the maximum.
I mean, even if at this point wasn't obvious that you're trolling, here you're saying that Frieza powered down when it's obvious by his body size that he was always using all the strength he had...

That’s because Freeza’s ki wasn’t at his max, which is also reinforced by Trunks.

Chapter: 331 (DBZ 137), P9.1
Context: challenging Freeza and Cold
Trunks: “Come at me at full power right from the start. I’m not soft like Son Goku…”

What? That precisely proves that Mecha didn't have any more power on reserve. Trunks gives Frieza time to power up, but Frieza still attacks without doing it!
The proof Frieza didn't power up is the fact that the z-fighters that were hiding among the rocks didn't realise the fight had started until they saw Frieza's attack.
So, Trunks tells Frieza to attack with all that he's got and Frieza attacks with a power that Gohan had described as "This isn’t it…he gets much, much stronger…!".

I mean, that Mecha Frieza that according to you had powered up still moved at a comparable speed... to King Cold's 3rd form!
So you have to explain me 2 things here:
1. How come Mecha is stronger than at Namek but then his speed is so atrocious that his father at 3rd form can match him, when we know Frieza considered himself above his father and Cold acknowledged being below his son?

2. How come Goku SSJ is like KKx10 Goku in strength more or less, but then SSJ Trunks with that same strength trashes Mecha who was stronger than Namek Frieza, that at 50% of strength trashed KKx10 Goku?

I mean, at this point I'm just asking for a bit of common sense here...

Because their conversation is about who has the most destructive instinct, which Vegeta believed Cell would inherit from him.

Yeah, of course, because now in Dragon Ball what matters is "destructive instinct" and not power. I'm sure that when Krilin asks Goku about his feelings he's also talking about "destructive instincts" and that's why the androids aren't mentioned right?
I mean, you're not serious at this point me thinks...

Despite them being much stronger than Freeza, the androids from this timeline don’t have wicked hearts. Krillin probably didn’t think an android that kissed him is more terrible than Freeza.

They only had the goal of killing Son Goku, surely a small detail compared to a kiss on the cheek.
And Goku? I mean, he's in fear (his own words). Why is he in fear of someone being stronger than someone he can beat like nothing?
The problem of trying to improvise bad excuses is that they're just that and not your honest interpretation of the manga, so they fall on their own weight.

At this point, you’re just shifting the goalposts and doubling down on a interpretation that doesn’t align with the text or even basic logic.

I'm being consistent with other similar scenarios of the series (captain Ginyu was a much more experienced fighter than Frieza, yet still he didn't realise how weak he was until he was measured by a scouter).
I mean, considering how you're trying to spin every single sentence from the manga that you don't like (Piccolo and Vegeta worrying about "destructive instincts" and not power must be the funniest, but you've done this a lot in your last message)...

Honestly, if you’re not trolling us, your argument relies heavily on reading intentions into the text rather than from it, cherry-picking moments, misrepresenting scenes (like the Goku and Krillin exchange), and substituting actual textual evidence with “Toriyama surely meant this.” This is certainly something I’ve seen before.

Honestly, I've been giving you examples from the whole series where injuries matter, yet here you say they didn't despite the many proofs that they did.
I'm not the one saying "hey what's true for the rest of the series doesn't happen here because I don't like it".
I mean, I even had to look for an interview where the author of the series himself spoke about this topic, and I'm sure you'll find a way to spin his words to match your agenda.
And I'm the one trolling here?

Come on! XD

[Jack Bz]

Reading this quote again, there is just absolutely no way to interpret this as anything other than Goku on namek being stronger than Freeza's full potential on namek:

Chapter: 330 (DBZ 136), P13.3-4
Cold: “The Earthlings don’t matter, but the Super Saiyan alone we absolutely must exterminate, by any means. The one who holds the greatest power in the universe must without a doubt be our clan”
Freeza: “We can definitely defeat him if we go at him together, Papa. And I’ve powered up too, so I think I can probably go alone.”

Even if mecha Freeza is weaker than he was on namek, and is somehow mistaken about getting a power boost (which, for the record, I don't believe), both Freeza and Cold explicitly state that they think Goku surpassed them back on namek.

For a start, Cold thinks they have to defeat Goku because they can't let anyone else be stronger than their clan. Despite the fact that, according to you, Goku was nowhere near as strong as Freeza, and wouldn't even be stronger than until training in the afterlife for multiple years.

Freeza straight up says that he can "probably" beat Goku alone because he's powered up. Like, his stated reason for him thinking he could beat Goku is that he's stronger than he was before, not that he didn't get to go all out before. And even after he thinks he's powered up, he's still not even sure he can beat Goku alone! If he was already over 10x stronger than him on namek, it shouldn't even be a question that he could beat Goku, and he certainly wouldn't have needed to power up anymore, or say he might need Cold's help to win.

Also, these quotes:

Chapter: 321 (DBZ 127), P3.5
Context: as he lets Freeza power all the way up
Goku: “I really might not get this chance again…The chance to see the strongest bastard in the universe at full power…”

According to you, Goku has already witnessed Freeza at 50% of his max power, which is orders of magnitude stronger than the version of Freeza that Goku is currently watching power up. He might not get this chance again! To see a version of Freeza 10x weaker than one he already fought! It just makes no sense whatsoever to bend over backwards to explain that every character was just mistaken every time they talk about Freeza's power.

Chapter: 321 (DBZ 127), P5.2
Context: Freeza’s still powering up
Freeza: “85%...90…”
Goku: “Freeza…The reason I’m waiting for you to reach full power…is because I want to beat you down when you’re at your best…That way, you’ll have no regrets as a warrior…You want to try testing out your full power too, right? If you didn’t, you would have just fired at the planet again and ended it…”

"I want to beat you down when you're at your best" is just about as clear as clear can be. It's also the entire point of Goku risking his life by staying on a planet that's about to explode. If he has already seen and fought a stronger version of Freeza, then Goku's motivations for staying on namek are simply nonsensical.

I've never seen such wilful disregard for what a story is trying to convey. The point of Goku staying on a dying namek and letting Freeza power up is so that there's no ambiguity on why Freeza lost: Goku was just better. He mistakenly thought that doing things this way would humiliate Freeza to the point where he would stay away.

Trunks effortlessly beating a powered up Freeza is to show that the next antagonists are truly terrifying, if this super saiyan has time travelled to ask for help. It's to hype up what's coming! That's the whole point of bringing Freeza back in that moment!

[Koitsukai]

Reading this quote again, there is just absolutely no way to interpret this as anything other than Goku on namek being stronger than Freeza's full potential on namek:

Chapter: 330 (DBZ 136), P13.3-4
Cold: “The Earthlings don’t matter, but the Super Saiyan alone we absolutely must exterminate, by any means. The one who holds the greatest power in the universe must without a doubt be our clan”
Freeza: “We can definitely defeat him if we go at him together, Papa. And I’ve powered up too, so I think I can probably go alone.”

Even if mecha Freeza is weaker than he was on namek, and is somehow mistaken about getting a power boost (which, for the record, I don't believe), both Freeza and Cold explicitly state that they think Goku surpassed them back on namek.

For a start, Cold thinks they have to defeat Goku because they can't let anyone else be stronger than their clan. Despite the fact that, according to you, Goku was nowhere near as strong as Freeza, and wouldn't even be stronger than until training in the afterlife for multiple years.

Freeza straight up says that he can "probably" beat Goku alone because he's powered up. Like, his stated reason for him thinking he could beat Goku is that he's stronger, not that he didn't get to go all out before. And even after he thinks he's powered up, he's still not even sure he can beat Goku alone! If he was already over 10x stronger than him on namek, it shouldn't even be a question that he could beat Goku, and he certainly wouldn't have needed to power up anymore, or say he might need Cold's help to win.

Also, these quotes:

Chapter: 321 (DBZ 127), P3.5
Context: as he lets Freeza power all the way up
Goku: “I really might not get this chance again…The chance to see the strongest bastard in the universe at full power…”

According to you, Goku has already witnessed Freeza at 50% of his max power, which is orders of magnitude stronger than the version of Freeza that Goku is currently watching power up. He might not get this chance again! To see a version of Freeza 10x weaker than one he already fought! It just makes no sense whatsoever to bend over backwards to explain that every character was just mistaken every time they talk about Freeza's power.

Chapter: 321 (DBZ 127), P5.2
Context: Freeza’s still powering up
Freeza: “85%...90…”
Goku: “Freeza…The reason I’m waiting for you to reach full power…is because I want to beat you down when you’re at your best…That way, you’ll have no regrets as a warrior…You want to try testing out your full power too, right? If you didn’t, you would have just fired at the planet again and ended it…”

"I want to beat you down when you're at your best" is just about as clear as clear can be. It's also the entire point of Goku risking his life by staying on a planet that's about to explode. If he has already seen and fought a stronger version of Freeza, then Goku's motivations for staying on namek are simply nonsensical.

I've never seen such wilful disregard for what a story is trying to convey. The point of Goku staying on a dying namek and letting Freeza power up is so that there's no ambiguity on why Freeza lost: Goku was just better. He mistakenly thought that doing things this way would humiliate Freeza to the point where he would stay away.

Trunks effortlessly beating a powered up Freeza is to show that the next antagonists are truly terrifying, if this super saiyan has time travelled to ask for help. It's to hype up what's coming! That's the whole point of bringing Freeza back in that moment!

This. The reasons behind King Cold's inclusion are enough to disprove this. I haven't seen such a baseless take like that since the pandemic, I think.

For all of this to work, this should've happened:
- Freeza would've known Goku could not touch him at his strongest, so his ego would not be as hurt. When Goku said that he wanted to see him at his fullest, Freeza would've said "for that we'd need to meet in 24hs", Goku would've obliged. And if Goku said no, Freeza could've just taken off to space, and go see Goku on Earth. Instead of trying to beat him with only a fraction of his power.
Shit, even if Freezas was that dumb, he should've muttered "you couldn't touch me at my strongest... ".
- Kaio sama should've said "Goku, if you spare Freeza, he'll come back and use his real power". Yet, all of the warnings were about Freeza being a dick.
- King Cold instead of being as butthurt, should be fuming at Freeza for being so stupid. "With our technology, you would've been back at full health in 5hs". Instead of wasting their time killing people, they should have looked for the Earth DBs, so they could wish back Freeza's original body that was stronger than 2nd form Cell.
- Defeating Freeza should've meant nothing because he was not even at full power, so the threat of the androids, and Trunks' accomplishments should've been uncertain and vague. What is Trunks hyping up really? the not-strongest threat ever.
- Cell, by virtue of having Freeza's DNA, should've been at least as powerful. No way Toriyama was so dumb to amalgamate every past villain and come up with a weaker character than the previous one.
- The final villain of DB's original should've been Freeza, not Buu. That superior warrior that lost because was too dumb, while being worlds above those can came after him, should've came back to fight Goku but now using his real full power, not a fraction of it.

This interpretation goes against every narrative sense and logic possible, this disregard for narrative intent is baffling to me. It's conjecture without a hint of evidence, and we can see there were plently of times were Akira could've dropped that evidence to make this interpretation more than just headcanon.

[ScouterSSJ]

Reading this quote again, there is just absolutely no way to interpret this as anything other than Goku on namek being stronger than Freeza's full potential on namek:
Chapter: 330 (DBZ 136), P13.3-4
Cold: “The Earthlings don’t matter, but the Super Saiyan alone we absolutely must exterminate, by any means. The one who holds the greatest power in the universe must without a doubt be our clan”
Freeza: “We can definitely defeat him if we go at him together, Papa. And I’ve powered up too, so I think I can probably go alone.”
Even if mecha Freeza is weaker than he was on namek, and is somehow mistaken about getting a power boost (which, for the record, I don't believe), both Freeza and Cold explicitly state that they think Goku surpassed them back on namek.

For a start, Cold thinks they have to defeat Goku because they can't let anyone else be stronger than their clan. Despite the fact that, according to you, Goku was nowhere near as strong as Freeza, and wouldn't even be stronger than until training in the afterlife for multiple years.

Freeza straight up says that he can "probably" beat Goku alone because he's powered up. Like, his stated reason for him thinking he could beat Goku is that he's stronger than he was before, not that he didn't get to go all out before. And even after he thinks he's powered up, he's still not even sure he can beat Goku alone! If he was already over 10x stronger than him on namek, it shouldn't even be a question that he could beat Goku, and he certainly wouldn't have needed to power up anymore, or say he might need Cold's help to win.

You're assuming a lot of (clearly incorrect) things here.
Firstly, you're not even taking into account something as basic as the perspective of each character.
From as early as the fight vs Vegeta we have tons of examples of fighters whose power suffers a sudden change and aren't aware of how strong or weak they turned until they tested it themselves.
Fighters as experienced as Vegeta or Ginyu are good examples of this, with Ginyu even celebrating his power up and "how fast he had become" before suddenly realising that his power was just a fraction of what he thought.
Vegeta miscalculated an attack that was aimed at killing everyone because he had less strength left after the Genkidama than he thought (such a shame he didn't have "Genkidama immunity" like you argue Frieza had, right? LoL).

And you're expecting Frieza, someone that never had a serious fight in his life, to suddenly do things that not even much more experienced fighters could do?
Mecha not being aware of his power is as easy to justify as him not having trained prior to his visit to the Earth, something he even confirms in the Resurrection F movie.
Him powering up makes reference to him being able to maintain 100% of power with no drawbacks like in Namek, something he could easily see and sense (I mean, you don't have to be a genius to feel if you're getting tired or forcing your body or not) and which happened to be the reason behind his defeat Goku told him at Namek.

So, from Frieza's pov: He feels OK and at full strength, he can go to 100% without the drawbacks that made him lose against the SSJ at Namek and if that was not enough he had his father as a backup.

Cold's pov: He received news of Frieza's death, found Frieza's body and healed him, heard his son's story about how things went and went to Earth with him.

From Cold's POV the SSJ is a menace because has managed to defeat his son. Of course he didn't know that Goku had weakened Frieza a lot with the energy of the whole galaxy thanks to a special technique that only Goku knew because not even Frieza was aware of that.
And speaking about how Frieza saw the SSJ, it's obvious that tons of things we the readers know, he didn't.
For example, something as simple as Goku replenishing his power with the rage boosts was something Frieza couldn't possibly understand. So from his POV, if he was injured, SSJ Goku was at least as much as him if not more, and not at 100% of strength like we know he was.

So, yeah, what Freza and Cold say is not in relation to what the reader knows, but to what THEY know. That's how good writing is done, with characters speaking from their respective POV and concrete knowledge.

By the way, before you say that this was never done in Dragon Ball, let me remind you the fight between Goku and Vegeta.
After Goku barely managed to deflect Vegeta's Garlick-Ho with the Kaio-Ken x4 he was so weakened (another example of injuries affecting the power level of someone, something that is a "baseless assumption" according to you) that Vegeta would've been able to kill him with a single punch.
Yet Vegeta was so blind by the fact that Goku had surpassed him that didn't want to fight him directly anymore and went for the Oozaru tactic that ended in his defeat.

So yeah, maybe when you read that fight you thought "hohoho Vegeta is so stupid, he doesn't see how Goku has destroyed his body with the Kaio-Ken and is no longer able to fight" but that's not Vegeta being stupid, it's you being unable to understand that a character's pov matters and that omniscience would be bad writing!

Also, these quotes:
Chapter: 321 (DBZ 127), P3.5
Context: as he lets Freeza power all the way up
Goku: “I really might not get this chance again…The chance to see the strongest bastard in the universe at full power…”
According to you, Goku has already witnessed Freeza at 50% of his max power, which is orders of magnitude stronger than the version of Freeza that Goku is currently watching power up. He might not get this chance again! To see a version of Freeza 10x weaker than one he already fought! It just makes no sense whatsoever to bend over backwards to explain that every character was just mistaken every time they talk about Freeza's power.

That's again, an impossible scenario that would only be possible if Dragon Ball had omniscient characters.
Goku couldn't possibly know how weakened Frieza had been by the Genkidama because he was also affected by it, and probably couldn't even sense Frieza's power since after the KKx20 depleted his energy (when the difference in power level is too high, it's not even possible to correctly gauge energies as clearly seen in the Frieza fight itself when Piccolo is unable to tell who's strongest between KKx10 Goku and 50% Frieza until Frieza beat Goku down to a pulp).
Even if Goku had been able to sense Frieza's ki until the very moment he launched the attack, the Genkidama explosion affected him enough that he was left with absolutely 0 energy after it, so he couldn't have possibly measured Frieza's Ki after he came back and compare it to what it had been before.
And of course, as a SSJ his references were all changed. Yes, he could measure Frieza as a SSJ, but only in relation to him as a SSJ which was at the time a completely unknown measure because it was literally his first time at being one.

So even if Goku knew that Frieza had been affected by the Genkidama, he surely couldn't possibly know by how much until much, much later.

Chapter: 321 (DBZ 127), P5.2
Context: Freeza’s still powering up
Freeza: “85%...90…”
Goku: “Freeza…The reason I’m waiting for you to reach full power…is because I want to beat you down when you’re at your best…That way, you’ll have no regrets as a warrior…You want to try testing out your full power too, right? If you didn’t, you would have just fired at the planet again and ended it…”
"I want to beat you down when you're at your best" is just about as clear as clear can be. It's also the entire point of Goku risking his life by staying on a planet that's about to explode. If he has already seen and fought a stronger version of Freeza, then Goku's motivations for staying on namek are simply nonsensical.

Besides Goku not being able to know this (again, character's POV matters), it's obvious Goku wasn't going to heal Frieza.
Beating Frieza at his best = at his relative best, not doing "dirty" tricks like attacking him before he's totally powered up because that would go against Goku's morals of having the best and fairest possible fight.
This time is not context of the character, but context of the dialogue that matters.

I've never seen such wilful disregard for what a story is trying to convey. The point of Goku staying on a dying namek and letting Freeza power up is so that there's no ambiguity on why Freeza lost: Goku was just better. He mistakenly thought that doing things this way would humiliate Freeza to the point where he would stay away.

First of all, nope, that scene is there to show us that Goku is a saiyan first an foremost and that he will prioritize having a good fight over avenging his friends or doing what's most logical to maintain peace, not to prove something that is disproved in the following fight.
I didn't want to go to such deep topics in this discussion because if you're even unable to understand Toriyama's basic rules when writing Dragon Ball, or can't even understand a character's given POV when they speak, much less you'll understand the real deeper motives of his narrative and the messages he really tried to convey, but since you wanted to touch on the topic...

Let's speak about 2 real messages he really tried to convey and that are relevant to what we're discussing.
First one is the message behind the Goku vs Frieza fight, which is a clear parallel of the famous tale "The hare and the tortoise". Frieza (the Hare) has all the advantage and Goku (the tortoise) the good attitude (and knowledge). In other words: the theme of the fight is that Frieza will lose due to his mistakes and Goku win due to his good attitude and knowledge.
This theme is introduced as soon as in the first compasses of the fight, where Frieza surprises Goku in power but Goku manages to surprise Frieza with intelligence (with the Kame-Hame-Ha trick that leads to a kick from behind).
Then the message is constantly reinforced: Frieza fights without hands and Goku catches up to him. Frieza powers up to 50% but starts to play (he wants to demoralise Goku and recruit him for his army, but it can still be considered "playing" since he wasn't going for the kill) and Goku surprises him with the Kaio-Ken x20.
Frieza, seeing how Goku is no longer able to continue to fight, continues to try to demoralize him and make him surrender, which leads to Goku being able to gather all the power he needed for the Genkidama.
After the Genkidama Frieza has been badly injured (well, not according to you but yes according to the manga) but he still has all the advantage, and instead of killing Goku he decides to kill his friends first which leads to Goku turning SSJ (see the overall theme? It's always Frieza doing something stupid and Goku taking advantage of it).
As a SSJ, Goku for the first time in the fight has an advantage and (and that's why it's important) we reach the scene you quoted, which is relevant because it's the only time where Toriyama break this narrative theme of the fight by making Goku play the role of the Hare (for character development purposes). But of course, if Toriyama was half as good as a writer as he proved to be, the theme shouldn't be forgotten.
After this Frieza powers up to 100% and manages to severely injure Goku when he sends him flying to the bottom of the ocean but then insults Krilin's death, losing his advantage because Goku's rage replenished his power again (same theme again! I know you don't believe me, but there's a pattern here).
Finally, Frieza decides to fight Goku hand to hand (Goku's specialty and Frieza's weakest area) which is his last bad decision during the fight, and just a moment later it all culminates when Goku explains that Frieza's power had been declining due to his lack of training (again, Frieza's bad attitude costing him the victory as a theme, impossible not to see with so many examples of it).

If Toriyama wanted to show us that Goku was much stronger than 100% Frieza (your interpretation of the fight), Frieza wouldn't have gained any advantage over SSJ Goku and wouldn't have thrown it by insulting Krilin, or wouldn't have agreed to fight hand to hand in the final compasses of the fight, or the stamina problems wouln't have been even mentioned... and even the Genkidama scene wouldn't have happened because that all goes completely against the supposed message Toriyama was trying to convey according to you.
But since the real message of Toriyama is a very different one (Frieza lost due to his bad attitude, Goku won thanks to his), one that would've been broken by your take on the subject, the Frieza fight ended up being such a great fight (because it's coherent with its theme from start to end with only one exception that's used for characterization purposes)...

The second narrative message is Gohan as Goku's successor (and that one goes much beyond a simple fight). From the very moment he was introduced, Gohan was set to become the replacement for Goku, better than him in every way.
And that was reflected in his fight vs Cell. The theme here is that while Goku only was able to defeat Frieza thanks to his bad decisions, Gohan on the other hand surpassed an improved version of Frieza by his own merits.
By the end of the Cell fight Gohan was ready to replace Goku and his fight with Cell the narrative conclusion to his arc, something that of course would be also broken if Goku's fight vs Frieza was Goku just being much stronger already.

See? The narrative is at my side.

Trunks effortlessly beating a powered up Freeza is to show that the next antagonists are truly terrifying, if this super saiyan has time travelled to ask for help. It's to hype up what's coming! That's the whole point of bringing Freeza back in that moment!

Nope, it's not that simple. Of course he did what he did to increase the hype of the readers, but at the same time he put enough details in the writing to make things more nuanced and much better.
Why make King Cold appear in his 3rd form and make Mecha Frieza perform like him if not to show that Mecha was weaker?
Why make Trunks and Goku have a short sparring to prove that Trunks wasn't stronger than Goku, if it was all about the hype and having made Trunks much stronger would increase it even more (androids surpassing someone much stronger than Goku? More hype than androids surpassing someone as strong as Goku for sure!).

So nope, if Dragon Ball had been as stupid and simple it wouldn't have had the massive success it's had, let's be honest here.

And since I'm addressing everyone of your arguments, please, address my own ones:
Why would Frieza not lose power when badly injured, when it's something that happens to everyone in the series?
And he was badly injured, that's for sure:
Chapter: 317 (DBZ 123), P10.3, P12.1
Context: after getting hit with the Genki-Dama
Freeza: “Ev-even I thought I would die…I, the great Freeza, was pushed to the brink of death…[ ] Even having taken this damage, I can still easily defeat all of you!”

How come Goku's power as a SSJ was only comparable to the Kaio-Ken x10 and he still was stronger than Frieza when we saw the Kaio-Ken x20 losing to 50% Frieza? I mean, I'm just using Toriyama's power-scale here:

Only, at the time, it was considered that his strength would increase 50-fold when he became a Super Saiyan, but that was a bit of an exaggeration. My feeling as the creator is that, while drawing it, I felt that it was about a 10-fold change from what it was up to that point.

Shouldn't be hard to explain, don't you think?

For all of this to work, this should've happened:
- Freeza would've known Goku could not touch him at his strongest, so his ego would not be as hurt. When Goku said that he wanted to see him at his fullest, Freeza would've said "for that we'd need to meet in 24hs", Goku would've obliged. And if Goku said no, Freeza could've just taken off to space, and go see Goku on Earth. Instead of trying to beat him with only a fraction of his power.
Shit, even if Freezas was that dumb, he should've muttered "you couldn't touch me at my strongest... ".

Why would Frieza say this when Goku was as injured as him? Frieza can't possibly know that Goku has regained his strength due to the rage boost since Frieza has never had any rage boost to begin with! XD
Again, character POV matters.

- Kaio sama should've said "Goku, if you spare Freeza, he'll come back and use his real power". Yet, all of the warnings were about Freeza being a dick.

KaioSama wanted Goku to kill Frieza even before he got to his 100%... so why even worry about that? If it was for him Frieza would've killed injured and at 80% of strength! XD

The other points regarding King Cold (someone who didn't even witness the fight! How could he know if Frieza was acting stupid -which he clearly did, the fact that you're even denying this proves you didn't understand the fight-?) have the same problem so I won't repeat myself.

- Cell, by virtue of having Freeza's DNA, should've been at least as powerful. No way Toriyama was so dumb to amalgamate every past villain and come up with a weaker character than the previous one.

And Cell was stronger... once completed? I mean, why would Guero stop his other line of work to 100% prioritize the Cell project, if he was already making androids much stronger than Frieza like the A16?
I mean, Guero receives the analysis of Frieza's cells and suddenly says... it's weaker than my androids but I'll abandon them to prioritize it because I like it's colour a lot! Nope, that makes absolutely no sense bro.

This interpretation goes against every narrative sense and logic possible, this disregard for narrative intent is baffling to me. It's conjecture without a hint of evidence, and we can see there were plently of times were Akira could've dropped that evidence to make this interpretation more than just headcanon.

In fact it's the opposite. Frieza not being affected by the Genkidama is what breaks the narrative logic of Dragon Ball, and basically it breaks the whole Cell saga.
I mean, Akira surely dropped all the evidence he needed to drop, and in fact, he even told you the truth in an interview but somehow you still manage to make your headcanon prevail?

Only, at the time, it was considered that his strength would increase 50-fold when he became a Super Saiyan, but that was a bit of an exaggeration. My feeling as the creator is that, while drawing it, I felt that it was about a 10-fold change from what it was up to that point.

[Hugo Boss]

Another proof of your claim being nonsense is the fact that Frieza's 100% of strength gets weaker due to his low stamina.
I mean, think on it for a second and try not to enter in pure denial mode...
That's what Goku says:
Chapter: 325 (DBZ 131), P8.2-5
Context: after Goku and full-power Freeza have fought for a while
Goku: “I quit. [ ] As a backlash from you using your 100% power, you’ve passed your peak, and your ki is steadily dropping…I’m starting to think that there’s no point in fighting any more than this…”

So, you're telling me after reading this sentence from Goku, that Frieza's 100% wasn't about his remaining power but about his total power?
How come his 100% of power is weaker at chapter 325 than at chapter 321 then if it wasn't his remaining power? And why it would "steadily drop"?

Sure, I’m firm about that. Goku said Freeza’s ki was steadily dropping, which means that Freeza’s ki wasn’t at 100% anymore. Freeza’s ki can’t be at 100% if it is decreasing. Nothing whatsoever in that sentence suggests Freeza “100%” is anything beyond what basic logic dictates.

I mean, at this point it's obvious that for some reason you want to ignore the almost fatal damage Frieza took from the Genkidama for "reasons".

I’m not ignoring it. It’s just that Freeza overcame that condition when he declared he would use 100% of his power. This is certainly not the first time that this happened in Dragon Ball. We had Goku doing that against Piccolo. Gohan doing that against Cell. It’s not rocket science that Freeza was able to put out his 100% for a short period despite the damage he got from Genkidama and from Super Saiyan Goku. Likely, this might have contributed to his difficulty in keeping that power level long enough.

Only, at the time, it was considered that his strength would increase 50-fold when he became a Super Saiyan, but that was a bit of an exaggeration. My feeling as the creator is that, while drawing it, I felt that it was about a 10-fold change from what it was up to that point.

This again? Here Toriyama confirmed that Super Saiyan’s multiplier is 50, but for him it looked more like 10 when he drew it. It was a 10 in appearance and 50 in performance. If this wasn’t the case, the very book in which this comment was printed wouldn’t declare that Super Saiyan’s multiplier is 50.

What? Even after having tried to spin the meaning of the sentence it still means what it means. "If I'm stuck in the explosion I'll lose even more strength" means of course that he won't be invulnerable to the "effects of the explosion", and that those effects would make him "lose even more strength".
So, if Namek's explosion (one that didn't kill him despite him having almost no strength) would already make him lose some strength, how come a brutal attack like the Genkidama that almost killed him didn't affect his power?

You are missing my point here. I said that Freeza wasn’t exactly concerned about losing strength in that instance, since that was only a collateral effect that would happen. The translation missed what Freeza was saying. The implication is that he would be in danger if he was caught up in the explosion, possibly risking his own life or at least losing part of his body (like it ended up happening). Of course, his ki would get lower when he is hit by a strong attack, which is not the same as saying that he is unable to increase his ki to max, specially when his opponent is letting him doing so.

What? Are you saying that Frieza was only using 80% of his strength at that point and that he could've increased it to 100% again?
Of course Frieza was at 100% of power all the time, that's why his body never decrease in mass because he's still forcing it to the maximum.
I mean, even if at this point wasn't obvious that you're trolling, here you're saying that Frieza powered down when it's obvious by his body size that he was always using all the strength he had...

No. I don’t know what percentage of max power Freeza was using at the final minute. And I don’t know if he could increase it to 100% again even if Goku let him do it. What I do know is that it was not 100%. His body keeping the bulk is irrelevant, considering Goku already noted his ki was dropping. The super large Super Saiyan forms also had this problem. It’s not uncommon.

So you have to explain me 2 things here:
1. How come Mecha is stronger than at Namek but then his speed is so atrocious that his father at 3rd form can match him, when we know Frieza considered himself above his father and Cold acknowledged being below his son?

2. How come Goku SSJ is like KKx10 Goku in strength more or less, but then SSJ Trunks with that same strength trashes Mecha who was stronger than Namek Frieza, that at 50% of strength trashed KKx10 Goku?

I mean, at this point I'm just asking for a bit of common sense here...

As Gohan told Tenshinhan and company, Freeza’s real power was much greater than what he was showing in Earth, which explained why his power felt similar to his father to the ones sensing him. But it was Freeza himself that claimed twice that his power increased, so if he decided to use his full power right from the start, it would probably be at a level greater than it was in Namek.

Super Saiyan increased Goku’s battle power by 50, not 10. Even Toriyama acknowledged it. And even if Trunks had a similar battle power to Goku in Namek, that would still be enough to beat a full powered Freeza, as his power could change from a factor of 40 to 45, for example.

I mean, you're not serious at this point me thinks...
[…]
The problem of trying to improvise bad excuses is that they're just that and not your honest interpretation of the manga, so they fall on their own weight.
[…]
I mean, considering how you're trying to spin every single sentence from the manga that you don't like
[…]
I mean, I even had to look for an interview where the author of the series himself spoke about this topic, and I'm sure you'll find a way to spin his words to match your agenda.
And I'm the one trolling here?

Seriously, guys, I’m done here. We already know how this will turn out.

[ScouterSSJ]

Sure, I’m firm about that. Goku said Freeza’s ki was steadily dropping, which means that Freeza’s ki wasn’t at 100% anymore. Freeza’s ki can’t be at 100% if it is decreasing. Nothing whatsoever in that sentence suggests Freeza “100%” is anything beyond what basic logic dictates.

Ok, the problem here is that you seem unable to understand that being at 100% of strength is different than using 100% of strength.
Being at 100% means you're at your best, while using 100% just means that you're giving all you've got.
I'll give you an example to see if you can understand what I'm saying.
Let's imagine I'm in a race with a 5 year old kid, and since I'm much faster than him, I run at 50% of my speed.
But while in the race, I happen to break one of my legs. Suddenly I no longer have the advantage and decide to run at 100%, that is, giving it my all.
But despite me now giving everything I have, I'm going slower than when I was running at 50% of my speed with both legs intact.

So Frieza not being at his real 100% of strength is not up for debate, since he in fact never was against Goku (not even when the fight started) due to him already having lost some strength while fighting in his inferior forms and transforming.

I’m not ignoring it. It’s just that Freeza overcame that condition when he declared he would use 100% of his power.

What? Then why did Goku give Cell a senzu bean if using 100% of power was all it was needed to overcome any injury?
Why bring senzu beans and not simply fight at 80% of strength and then power up to 100% any time you need healing?
You have to proof that Frieza overcame that condition, and him declaring he would use 100% surely isn't something that has the power to heal in Dragon Ball...

This is certainly not the first time that this happened in Dragon Ball. We had Goku doing that against Piccolo. Gohan doing that against Cell.

Goku doing it against Piccolo? Where exactly? I mean, pre-Raditz fights weren't the best written ones, but the injuries affecting the fighters' powers is introduced in the fight vs King Piccolo so I'm pretty sure that didn't happen.
Gohan had a rage boost vs Cell so nope, not a good example at all... I mean, Goku replenished his power TWICE vs Frieza due to rage-boosts, so why go to Son Gohan when you have a better example of something that didn't apply to Frieza in that very same fight?
But Frieza didn't have a rage-boost, so argument debunked.

It’s not rocket science that Freeza was able to put out his 100% for a short period despite the damage he got from Genkidama and from Super Saiyan Goku. Likely, this might have contributed to his difficulty in keeping that power level long enough.

So we have thousands of examples of injuries affecting one's power, but suddenly for Frieza they only affect his stamina? That surely requires an explanation.
Furthermore, when Goku speaks about Frieza's stamina problems, he never mentions the injuries as a possible cause for it (because it doesn't make sense), but Frieza's body being unable to handle his full power due to him not having ever had a serious fight in his life.

Chapter: 320 (DBZ 126), P11.1-3
Context: with 5 minutes (ha!) before Namek explodes
Freeza: “In that case, I’ll show you my 100% power! There’s no way you can defeat me! Prepare yourself!”
Goku: “Why are you using your full power now?...I know: it’s because when you use all of your power, your body itself can’t handle it.”

Chapter: 325 (DBZ 131), P8.2-5
Context: after Goku and full-power Freeza have fought for a while
Goku: “I quit. [ ] As a backlash from you using your 100% power, you’ve passed your peak, and your ki is steadily dropping…I’m starting to think that there’s no point in fighting any more than this…”

I mean, I could even understand those levels of head-canon if we didn't have the RoF movie, where Frieza after training for 4 months was able to use 100% of his power of his OG form without forcing his body and having stamina problems (he had them in his golden form though, and the reason for it is that he didn't train in his Golden form... in other words, even when the direct answer is given to you in a movie that was clearly written to educate the audiences you still decide to ignore it in order to push your head-canon... T_T).

This again? Here Toriyama confirmed that Super Saiyan’s multiplier is 50, but for him it looked more like 10 when he drew it. It was a 10 in appearance and 50 in performance. If this wasn’t the case, the very book in which this comment was printed wouldn’t declare that Super Saiyan’s multiplier is 50.

Wow, I've been smelling your dishonesty from miles away, but that takes the crown.
Firstly, that PL list is very different from my own one (I mean, he gives Perfect Cell 12 million and I give him more than 31, almost triple the strength) and just going by that, it's apparent we're defending different stances.
Now, regarding Toriyama's words, he's saying that the 50x multiplier is an exaggeration, thus saying the exact opposite of what you're trying to convey by spinning his words.
Of course, since spinning his words wasn't enough, you also had to lie about the context of the interview.
The interview where Toriyama said this was done for the Super Exciting Guide, while the one that published the 50x multiplier was the Daizenshuus (not even a different number of Daizenshuu, but a completely different guide).

"Only, at the time, it was considered that his strength would increase 50-fold when he became a Super Saiyan, but that was a bit of an exaggeration"
This means the 50x was an exaggeration, not what really happened in the manga. Then he follows:
"My feeling as the creator is that, while drawing it, I felt that it was about a 10-fold change from what it was up to that point."
This means he drew it with something closer to a 10x on mind.
Never in his words is even implied that the SSJ multiplier was ever a 50x... because to begin with, there never was a fixed SSJ multiplier. The guides treated the SSJ as if it was a higher level of Kaio-Ken, but that goes against everything we saw about the transformation in the manga.
So please, let's try to have an honest discussion here if possible.
I mean, since you started accusing me of being someone else maybe I got a bit carried away, but in theory we're all Dragon Ball fans trying to discuss about our hobby.
If you're consciously lying about something just to defend your stance... this loses its fun. If you're right, then prove it with the manga or Toriyama's words like I do, but not like this T_T

You are missing my point here. I said that Freeza wasn’t exactly concerned about losing strength in that instance, since that was only a collateral effect that would happen. The translation missed what Freeza was saying. The implication is that he would be in danger if he was caught up in the explosion, possibly risking his own life or at least losing part of his body (like it ended up happening). Of course, his ki would get lower when he is hit by a strong attack, which is not the same as saying that he is unable to increase his ki to max, specially when his opponent is letting him doing so.

The point is that if Frieza gets injured, he loses strength confirmed by his own words. Now you're saying that strength lost by injures can be recovered by powering up, but while we have lots of examples of that not being the case (Zarbon, Ginyu, Cell! -an improved version of Frieza-, etc.) you haven't been able to provide me a single example of it happening.
Yup, rage boosts do replenish your strength, but that's a special scenario that not even applicable to Frieza (only the good guys get rage boosts in Dragon Ball).
We're speaking of recovering your strength by simply powering up. If you can't provide even a single example of that happening, I'm afraid there's not much to argue here.

No. I don’t know what percentage of max power Freeza was using at the final minute. And I don’t know if he could increase it to 100% again even if Goku let him do it. What I do know is that it was not 100%. His body keeping the bulk is irrelevant, considering Goku already noted his ki was dropping. The super large Super Saiyan forms also had this problem. It’s not uncommon.

His body keeping the bulk is in fact a key visual detail. It means that Frieza hasn't powered down and that he's still fighting with all the strength he got.
I mean, Frieza is starting to lose ground to SSJ Goku and you're saying that you don't know if he did it on purpose by lowering his Ki or if he was too tired and his 100% got weaker as the time went on?
Well, let me explain it to you: Frieza had absolutely no reason to power himself down since he wanted to beat SSJ Goku at his own game (hand to hand combat).
He tried his best but his body couldn't handle it due to lack of training.

As Gohan told Tenshinhan and company, Freeza’s real power was much greater than what he was showing in Earth, which explained why his power felt similar to his father to the ones sensing him. But it was Freeza himself that claimed twice that his power increased, so if he decided to use his full power right from the start, it would probably be at a level greater than it was in Namek.

So you're saying that Frieza saw Trunks go SSJ, and attacked him with less than 10% of his power?
Between him powering down in the fight vs Goku and him attacking Trunks with a fraction of his strength, he surely had a suicidal behaviour on him! XD
Ok, I saw Frieza as someone arrogant, and surely from the fact of him wanting immortality I would've never imagined that in reality he had a death wish... What hidden layer of narrative may I have missed? XD

Super Saiyan increased Goku’s battle power by 50, not 10. Even Toriyama acknowledged it. And even if Trunks had a similar battle power to Goku in Namek, that would still be enough to beat a full powered Freeza, as his power could change from a factor of 40 to 45, for example.

Bro, stop the lying about what Toriyama said when we have the direct quoted sentence here. I mean, ok, you don't like what he said but it is what it is.

Seriously, guys, I’m done here. We already know how this will turn out.

Ok, what did you expect, me to buy that Toriyama saying "The 50x multiplier was an exaggeration, my feeling as the creator is that it was about 10x" means that it really was 50x multiplier or any other dishonest take?
Nope, that won't happen...

[Hugo Boss]

Wow, I've been smelling your dishonesty from miles away, but that takes the crown

Even if 4 years as a compliance officer hardly make me a undisputed authority on this subject, I’m pretty sure relentlessly shifting definitions, ignoring or selectively interpreting source material, inserting strawman arguments, and using condescension and circular reasoning are clues of classic bad-faith behavior. I’d rather keep enjoying the discussions and my fellow community here than get stuck in endless circular arguments over semantics and headcanon. Peace out.

[ScouterSSJ]

Wow, I've been smelling your dishonesty from miles away, but that takes the crown

Even if 4 years as a compliance officer hardly make me a undisputed authority on this subject, I’m pretty sure relentlessly shifting definitions, ignoring or selectively interpreting source material, inserting strawman arguments, and using condescension and circular reasoning are clues of classic bad-faith behavior. I’d rather keep enjoying the discussions and my fellow community here than get stuck in endless circular arguments over semantics and headcanon. Peace out.

Oh, no, those 4 years surely have turned you into an expert when it comes to doing all of this, as seen in our debate.
I'd say that maybe try not to mix your work and personal life if that's what you got from it, but just as a friendly advice

By the way, I'll put here in images the breakdown of Toriyama's words by an AI, because I assume there's lots of fans whose mother-tongue is not english and so they at least aren't fooled by your tactics

[miguelnuva1]

The picture is blurry and its AI.