What's Canon ? We Finally Have an Answer

[Vegeta th3 4th]

Toyotaro and Torishima were present at an anime expo this week and were taking questions from fans. One fan of course had to ask about canon, and here's their answer:

Toyotaro: "Every fan must choose their own canon"

Torishima: "Toriyama loved to please the fans. He created stories over time without everything necessarily fitting together"

https://x.com/sofianlegeek?lang=ar

More details from the interview are discussed here:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mgPLimd ... ToonRaider

I don't own an X account so I couldn't go through each one presented in the video.

My thoughts: They basically confirmed what everyone's been saying for years: no one in any official position cares if things line up or not. Toyotaro went a step further by basically telling fans to pick and choose what they want.

[Trouser]

Great news! This opens new possibilities.

[Hellspawn28]

Anything that is official DB is canon, but every DB series has its own continuity. Super, GT, Heroes, Online, etc. have their own continuity with their own series of events. No different how other series like Godzilla, Halloween, Alien & Predator, James Bond, etc are.

[Dragon Ball Ireland]

I've said it many times, but canon only really matters to the fans, to the powers that be (i.e. Shueshia, TOEI, the late Toriyama etc) who create the Dragon Ball content we all know and love its not relevant.

Shueshia even created an "Official Timeline" for the Dragon Ball Tenkaichi Budōsai festival, which was held at Ikebukuro in 2017 where everything from Goku meets Bulma to the end of GT was listed, excluding the movies.






The easiest way to see it as that the original 42 volumes of the manga is the core story and everything else, like filler, the movies, GT, Super, Daima are what-ifs.

The first Dragon Ball Z movie was what-if Raditz never showed up, the second was what-if Goku arrived to Earth in time to fight the Saiyans before Piccolo was killed, etc.

Super and Daima can't logically co-exist with GT, so all three series are different interpretations of what could have happened before and after the end of Z.

[WittyUsername]

To be honest, I don’t think I’ve ever seen a fanbase as obsessed with “canon” as Dragon Ball and when it comes to the average Dragon Ball fan, “canon” is pretty much defined by whether Toriyama was involved in the story or not. I can’t even begin to say how annoying I find it when people say things like “Broly/Gogeta/SS4 is finally canon!”

[JulieYBM]

People are so busy caring about silly things like 'canon' that they forget to just enjoy each individual project as a work of art unto itself. The 'canon' mania just makes the discussion of the arts boring.

[M16U3L2015]

I mean, Toriyama himself didn't give a damn about his own canon, especially in the modern era, he's the kind of author who would put an idea in his work that he thought was interesting or funny without caring much for strict continuity.

[WittyUsername]

I think the fact that Daima blatantly contradicts Super in various ways is a pretty good testament to how little Toriyama cared about continuity or canon.

[Vegeta th3 4th]

The easiest way to see it as that the original 42 volumes of the manga is the core story and everything else, like filler, the movies, GT, Super, Daima are what-ifs.

Another way to view things is through a ranking system by how much Toriyama was involved in each part of the franchise.

The original manga would naturally be at the top due to him writing and drawing it.
The original manga's anime adaption (DB & Z) would come next.
Modern Dragon Ball comes in third due to him being a writer on its various projects.
The classic movies follow that due to him not writing them, but at least designing their villains.
Finally would be GT and Heroes, both of which he had little to no involvement in.

[Neo-Makaiōshin]

Since when were Toyotaro and Torishima (the later not working for Shueisha for decades) authorities about canon?

[M16U3L2015]

Since when were Toyotaro and Torishima (the later not working for Shueisha for decades) authorities about canon?

Neither one has it, the man who had the final word about canon is dead so at this point it's just kicking a dead horse.

[Vegeta th3 4th]

Since when were Toyotaro and Torishima (the later not working for Shueisha for decades) authorities about canon?

They're the closest we've ever gotten to anyone in an official capacity addressing the topic. Toyotaro worked directly under Toriyama's supervision for nearly a decade, while Torishima was his editor for 8 years or so. Their words hold far more weight than any random person online, that's for sure.

[Koitsukai]

I don't think this is anything new, nor would it matter if they went and said "GT is not part of the DBverse" because it fucking is, no matter what they say, is Toei coming to my house and tell SS4 Gogeta doesn't really matter?
We already choose our canon, those who like SDBH will go to town with it even if Shueisha said "it's not part of us, we don't recognize it".

Also, what else could Toyo say? "DBS is no longer part of the continuity like Daima implied, my work has been stripped of its relevance"?

The best evidence is that Toriyama came up with two follow up stories that bifurcate from the original material. He never gave a fuck in the first place.

[Mister_Popo]

To me, "canon" encompasses everything related to the main storyline (which is still ongoing). This includes the original Dragon Ball and Dragon Ball Z manga and anime (up to GT), the Dragon Ball Super manga and anime, all the most recent films, and side manga that belong to the core continuities. And yes, despite inconsistencies, even Daima counts for me.

The original non-canon movies, GT, and Heroes exist in separate continuities—stories that may have happened, but in completely different universes.

Things would have been much simpler if the Super manga had been written by the same author, with the Super anime serving as a direct adaptation. That’s not the case and there are many differences, but there is clearly still one overarching main storyline, expressed through different media in different ways.

Toriyama’s involvement is not a necessary condition for me to consider something "canon" or main continuity. He hasn’t been the sole contributor to the main continuity for a long time, and now that he’s passed away, it obviously can't be a requirement anymore if the story is to continue.

[Vegeta th3 4th]

To me, "canon" encompasses everything related to the main storyline (which is still ongoing). This includes the original Dragon Ball and Dragon Ball Z manga and anime (up to GT), the Dragon Ball Super manga and anime, all the most recent films, and side manga that belong to the core continuities. And yes, despite inconsistencies, even Daima counts for me.

For me it's the original manga and its two anime adaptions (DB & Z). Everything else is too far removed in terms of quality (writing & production) for me to consider as part of that main story line Toriyama wrote and Toei adapted back in the day. That's not to say I don't like anything else, I do, I just don't consider them on the same level as the original. That was Dragon Ball at its absolute best, and unfortunately nothing has come close ever since.

[Luso Saiyan]

Since when were Toyotaro and Torishima (the later not working for Shueisha for decades) authorities about canon?

Yeah, seems like another clickbait thread. Toriyama is the author(ity), and it's pretty clear that he only took his own stories into account whenever he decided to continue/expand it.

[jjgp1112]

Since when were Toyotaro and Torishima (the later not working for Shueisha for decades) authorities about canon?

I think people who actually know Toriyama are a lot more qualified to speak on his mindset and approach. Especially Torishima, who probably can attribute a few of his grey hairs to Toriyama's nonchalance.

Given Toriyama's word choices when describing Super and GT I think it was plenty clear already the only thing he viewed as "law" were the 519 chapters he drew.

[Vegeta th3 4th]

Yeah, seems like another clickbait thread.

One was a co-writer of the modern manga, while the other was his long time editor. What's "clickbait" about it ? As far as Toriyama himself goes, he called Super a "casual continuation" of the original manga, which is a polite way of saying it's not as important.

[Kaboom]

Well well well, look who was right all along about the whole "cAnOn for Dragon Ball is effectively meaningless and beyond the core foundation of the original manga it's up to the individual fans to decide which adjacent stories matter most to them" situation!

...It's me. I was right.

GT > Soulless modern tripe.

Z-Bardock forever.

[Mr Baggins]

If the last ten years didn't exhaustively spell this out with Super disregarding GT, Super having multiple sub-series, or Daima disregarding both, then kindly allow me; the term "continuity" is a helluva lot more useful for all discussion surrounding this franchise's chronological post-series events than "canon" ever was. You don't even need Toyotaro or Torishima to confirm it.

There's the original work that supersedes everything else, and then it's all branches. Whichever sequel branch you like most and want to follow is basically up to you.