Q & A with Torishima, Toyotarou and Nakatsuru at Japan Expo.

[sangofe]

It's pretty interesting. The owner of db-z.com wrote down the questions and answers from the panel.

They can be read here:

https://www.db-z.com/english-version-in ... expo-2025/

https://www.db-z.com/english-version-in ... e_vignette

[Jord]

Interesting interview. They ask soms very good questions on the creative proces. Thanks for sharing.

[sangofe]

Yeah. I'm surprised this hasn't been shared and discussed more.

[Vegeta th3 4th]

Japanese manga has lost its sense of unique artistic identity. I think that at Shueisha, if editors ignore the data and go against the vision of people like me, then we're in real danger.

He isn't wrong here. We're over half way through the current decade, yet Weekly Shonen Jump has not put out a single breakthrough manga. This is unheard of if you look back at their history going back to the 80s, where every decade they'd put out 2-3 mega hits that redefined the magazine. This decade, everything they put out ends up getting cancelled within a year to three. How is anything suppose to grow and become popular when you keep pulling the plug on everything ? Dragon Ball would've been instantly cancelled if it was released today with this mindset going on over there. That magazine is going to go extinct if One Piece ends and they still haven't found the next big thing.

Publishers hire people who've only ever read manga. If you don't hire people with broader tastes-cinema, literature-the creative world keeps shrinking.

This is so true. I think the biggest issue that has faced modern Dragon Ball is the fact that most of its staff were originally fans of the classic series; that's all that inspires them. Toyotaro is a good artist, but he's nowhere near a good storyteller because his inspirations come from Dragon Ball, rather than anything form the outside. Toriyama was known for being a fan of all kinds of movies from different countries around the world, which inspired him in his writing. The tournaments were inspired by Kung-Fu movies, the Namek arc by Star Wars, and the Cell arc by terminator. Imagine how different, and likely less, dragon ball would be if Toriyama wasn't a fan of those movies and genres.

It felt like a movie for old Slam Dunk fans, not something designed to attract new ones-and that really frustrated me.

He was talking about the recent Slam Dunk movie. Although I'm not a fan of the series, this relates heavily to modern Dragon Ball, as the vast majority of it relies heavily, if not exclusively on nostalgia. The problem is, it doesn't stand on its own, but rather something only fans will like. DB & Z are easy to recommend to new people because they're genuinely good series, while something like Super relies completely on nostalgia to make up for its lack of quality.

Shonen Jump was full of dated, boring series. That's when I met Akira Toriyama, who helped me how to evolve manga

Fans, especially fanboys of modern Dragon Ball, don't realize just how influential Toriyama and his original manga were to the industry back then. Dragon Ball, the original manga, was a game changer, yet we have "fans" of the modern slop pretending that it's just as good and should be considered the same. The amount of ignorance this modern era has brought to the franchise is truly astonishing.

Nakatsuru's the only animator Toriyama personally acknowledged.

For good reason, this man is a legend. You could tell from the drop in art quality to the shortening of fights that Toriyama was really burned out during the Buu arc, but Nakatsuru and the rest of the team at Toei really brought their A-game for the arc and made up for every shortcoming it had in the manga.

GT came after Dragon Ball ended. The easiest solution would've been to ask Toriyama to keep going. But he had just finished and was done.

I think a GT that released 5 or so years after the original manga would've been handled much better that what we got, as everyone involved with the franchise would've been given a chance to recharge their creative batteries. Toriyama himself would've been more likely to get involved as well, resulting in many of the mistakes that hurt the original GT being avoided.

[Jord]

This is so true. I think the biggest issue that has faced modern Dragon Ball is the fact that most of its staff were originally fans of the classic series; that's all that inspires them. Toyotaro is a good artist, but he's nowhere near a good storyteller because his inspirations come from Dragon Ball, rather than anything form the outside. Toriyama was known for being a fan of all kinds of movies from different countries around the world, which inspired him in his writing. The tournaments were inspired by Kung-Fu movies, the Namek arc by Star Wars, and the Cell arc by terminator. Imagine how different, and likely less, dragon ball would be if Toriyama wasn't a fan of those movies and genres..

While we don't know about his other inspirations, being a fan does make it harder to look at the property objectively. He tried to emulate Toriyama as much as possible for obvious reasons, with him working with Toriyama leading to the subpar Dragon Ball Super, that got cancelled after 3 years, which is pretty shocking, since GT, which came after 9 years of DB content managed to get 65 episodes.
The whole creative team had some kind of tunnel vision.

I do think that the rights owners of DB (whoever they were during Super) put some limits on what the Super team could and couldn't do. With it being a midquel, they couldn't do anything meaningful that contrasted with the final Z episodes, or even go beyond Z. In a way GT had a creative freedom that new productions probably won't get. The DB characters are stuck in a Buu era vacuum for eternity.

In a way Heroes is more interesting, giving us characters and forms that are more than recolors and while the story is bonkers, it felt they had way more creative freedom.

[Vegeta th3 4th]

I do think that the rights owners of DB (whoever they were during Super) put some limits on what the Super team could and couldn't do. With it being a midquel, they couldn't do anything meaningful that contrasted with the final Z episodes, or even go beyond Z. In a way GT had a creative freedom that new productions probably won't get. The DB characters are stuck in a Buu era vacuum for eternity.

Here's an interesting fact not many fans know about: GT was originally going to take place between Buu and the End of Z, but it was Toriyama who suggested they set it after Z instead in order to give themselves as much creative freedom as possible. Imagine how much different GT would've been had it been set in that time period. GT got a lot wrong, but I will always give its team credit for taking the risks they took, and it was Toriyama's guidance that enabled them to do so. Toriyama may not have been involved the most with GT, but that simple suggestion made all the difference.

[Jord]

That is an interesting fact. Perhaps it explains why Super takes place during that timeframe. I can't imagine GT taking place during that frame. I also feel it would feel like more of the same, especially after having spend so much time during the Buu era already during the original airing.

[Vegeta th3 4th]

That is an interesting fact. Perhaps it explains why Super takes place during that timeframe. I can't imagine GT taking place during that frame. I also feel it would feel like more of the same, especially after having spend so much time during the Buu era already during the original airing.

The Buu arc lasted for 92 episodes, which was the equivalent to two years, so GT having that same style and tone would've been too much. Everything that made GT, well, GT, wouldn't have happened had it took place before the End of Z. No shadow dragons, no Super 17, maybe even no Ssj4 and Baby.

[Jiren The Alpha]

Unrelated, but has they been a public statment from Torishima about his feelings on Toriyama's death?

[VegettoEX]

Unrelated, but has they been a public statment from Torishima about his feelings on Toriyama's death?

Yes -- back when he passed.

[Vegeta th3 4th]

Unrelated, but has they been a public statment from Torishima about his feelings on Toriyama's death?

Yes -- back when he passed.

I had no idea so many creatives and companies put out public statements regarding his passing; thanks a lot for putting all of it together in one page.

[GhostEmperorX]

The world practically stopped when that announcement was dropped (and with good reason too). Very few places if any went without acknowledging it.

As far as the thread goes, it's quite funny to see Torishima channeling a point that's been made on this very site in the course of a few discussions regarding DB, its inspirations, and what it inspired (namely how Shueisha only hires people who are more or less just influenced by manga like DB and don't have a wide enough media horizon like manga authors of the past tended to do).

I think a GT that released 5 or so years after the original manga would've been handled much better that what we got, as everyone involved with the franchise would've been given a chance to recharge their creative batteries. Toriyama himself would've been more likely to get involved as well, resulting in many of the mistakes that hurt the original GT being avoided.

This I can definitely understand, they had already put out an avalanche of DB material just in the preceding 9 years, especially after Z was added to the anime's title (yet another simple Toriyama suggestion that made a difference). To continue to GT immediately after with no brakes was certainly a choice.

[JulieYBM]

You can only regurgitate the same influences so many times before you're just drinking your own piss. Toriyama's influences including film and other hobbies of his continually kept the original comic fresh.

That's why I think that it is so important for people involved in the arts to get out and do things other than stay inside working on their art all day.

[Hugo Boss]

I had never read manga before joining Shueisha. They told me to read back issues of Shonen Jump. I read a bunch - they were all terrible. My boss told me to rank the series from 1 to 10 and comment on each. Then I asked to see the weekly reader survey - and I was shocked. Readers ranked them the exact opposite of how I did. I seriously considered quitting and checking job ads.

Same energy as someone rage quitting a group project.

But honestly, his whole interview is gold. It really stuck with me that the first manga Torishima found genuinely interesting was a shojo. Kind of ironic, but it explains his perspective on manga being “for fun”.

[JulieYBM]

I had never read manga before joining Shueisha. They told me to read back issues of Shonen Jump. I read a bunch - they were all terrible. My boss told me to rank the series from 1 to 10 and comment on each. Then I asked to see the weekly reader survey - and I was shocked. Readers ranked them the exact opposite of how I did. I seriously considered quitting and checking job ads.

Same energy as someone rage quitting a group project.

But honestly, his whole interview is gold. It really stuck with me that the first manga Torishima found genuinely interesting was a shojo. Kind of ironic, but it explains his perspective on manga being “for fun”.

Shoujo is about characters' feelings and more mature themes, so it makes sense that an adult would be more into shoujo than shounen, which tends to be stuck in its own ass in terms of being in a world where 'effort' is the only requirement for success.

[Vegeta th3 4th]

Toriyama had no money, he couldn't afford fancy tools, and so he did without. That's how he created manga that were very simple and easy to read.

Toriyama had a clear natural talent for page composition; he knew exactly the perfect way to present his pages and the perfect amount of content to include in each one. So many authors are very messy when it comes to their page layout, as there are many examples of popular series that don't know when to stop filling the page with shit. Has anyone seen a One Piece page ? those have more going on in them than entire chapters of Dragon Ball.

While working on Daima, I felt that traditional animation is very labor-intensive and time-consuming.

This is very true, but look how beautiful it turned out as a result of not only bringing together such a talented team, but also providing them with the time and resources they needed to actually accomplish their task. Daima was such a breath of fresh air after that CGI abomination we got with Superhero. With that said, we're probably more likely to get more CGI projects than something like Daima again, unfortunately.

I once tried asking ChatGPT for story ideas...

He's gotten caught tracing art and now he looks to AI for story ideas. I like how he's on the same stage as two legends in the industry, yet has no shame announcing to the world how creatively bankrupt he is. How he got to work on Dragon Ball in any official capacity, much less be the co-writer of the current manga, is something I'll never understand.

I don't think I'm in a position to give much advice. I became a mangaka to draw Dragon Ball. I'm not sure I can give lessons to those who want to become mangaka

You've been drawing manga for well over a decade, and worked directly with one of the greatest mangaka in the world for years, yet you still have no clue what you're doing ? Torishima of course jumps in and mentions things like learning Japanese literature and understanding the world as ways to inspire up and coming mangaka, but my god is Toyotaro lame. The guy just brings zero to the conversation. I'm not expecting him to hold his own with someone as experienced as Torishima, but surely he could say something interesting every once in a while. No wonder Super was creatively bankrupt, this yahoo is who Toriyama was stuck bouncing ideas off of.

Dragon Ball was a story Toriyama and I made together, but if the goal is to grow it just for the money, then everything will collapse.

This right here is the best piece of advice he could've given the people in-charge of Dragon Ball right now. Simply put, if you don't have anything of value worth adding to the franchise, then keep it to yourself. Basically, if you're not Battle of Gods or Daima, then you're just wasting everyone's time. If they're going to take his advice seriously, then they should consider getting an actual professional writer instead of whatever Toyotaro is.

[sangofe]

Dude, you seem to have a strong irritation or hatred towards Toyotarou. You call him lame and what not. Would you have talked like this to someone face to face? Firstly, he joked when he said he used chatgtp. Secondly, he's standring with Torishima. What advice would he have to say? Do you know how japanese culture is? And Super is not creatively bankrupt. Stop lasting onto someone who can't defend themselves. Thanks.

[Vegeta th3 4th]

Dude, you seem to have a strong irritation or hatred towards Toyotarou. You call him lame and what not. Would you have talked like this to someone face to face?

Do I hate him ? of course not, I don't know him to hate him. Am I irritated by his performance during this interview ? Yes, and for good reason, which I clearly explained in my post above.

Firstly, he joked when he said he used chatgtp.

This is the same person who got caught many times tracing over Toriyama's original manga, as well as a Captain America cover, so who knows if he was joking or not. I'm glad you and the site this interview was translated on think so, because maybe he was and I'm reading too much into it, but his history with borderline plagiarism doesn't do him any favors.

Secondly, he's standing with Torishima. What advice would he have to say?

He's been in the industry for well over 10 years, many of which he spent working alongside Toriyama himself. Surely he's learned something of value worth passing down to people interested in joining the industry. I'm not saying he needed to outperform Torishima; that's impossible, but surely he could've said more than he did.

Do you know how japanese culture is?

I'm not Japanese working on a Japanese comic. What Torishima said about learning Japanese culture and literature to be a better writer is something Toyotaro should be doing instead of relying exclusively on prior Dragon Ball content for inspiration.

And Super is not creatively bankrupt.

If we get into this it will derail the entire topic, so if you're interested in exploring it further, you could open a separate topic in the Super section for it.

Stop lasting onto someone who can't defend themselves. Thanks.

If someone in an official position like Toyotaro is going to go on a public stage and talk about a franchise as big as Dragon Ball, then people will comment on their performance. Toyotaro either didn't prepare properly for this conversation, or he really had nothing worth contributing to it. Either way, fans are going to have thoughts on it that they'll share online.

[Hugo Boss]

I had never read manga before joining Shueisha. They told me to read back issues of Shonen Jump. I read a bunch - they were all terrible. My boss told me to rank the series from 1 to 10 and comment on each. Then I asked to see the weekly reader survey - and I was shocked. Readers ranked them the exact opposite of how I did. I seriously considered quitting and checking job ads.

Same energy as someone rage quitting a group project.

But honestly, his whole interview is gold. It really stuck with me that the first manga Torishima found genuinely interesting was a shojo. Kind of ironic, but it explains his perspective on manga being “for fun”.

Shoujo is about characters' feelings and more mature themes, so it makes sense that an adult would be more into shoujo than shounen, which tends to be stuck in its own ass in terms of being in a world where 'effort' is the only requirement for success.

Totally fair point. What I found interesting, though, was the irony that Torishima helped bring to life something like Dragon Ball, which deliberately avoids those themes, only with a different approach.

I don’t think about hating Toyotaro either, but I do agree that his presence in that interview was a bit underwhelming, not necessarily in terms of what he creates, but in how he talks about it and carries himself. He often comes across as someone who’s still stuck in the mindset of a fan rather than a lead creator. There’s nothing wrong with humility or joking around, but at some point, he needs to communicate with more confidence. In some moments, it honestly felt like Torishima was gently nudging him to step up a bit.

[JulieYBM]

Same energy as someone rage quitting a group project.

But honestly, his whole interview is gold. It really stuck with me that the first manga Torishima found genuinely interesting was a shojo. Kind of ironic, but it explains his perspective on manga being “for fun”.

Shoujo is about characters' feelings and more mature themes, so it makes sense that an adult would be more into shoujo than shounen, which tends to be stuck in its own ass in terms of being in a world where 'effort' is the only requirement for success.

Totally fair point. What I found interesting, though, was the irony that Torishima helped bring to life something like Dragon Ball, which deliberately avoids those themes, only with a different approach.

I don’t think about hating Toyotaro either, but I do agree that his presence in that interview was a bit underwhelming, not necessarily in terms of what he creates, but in how he talks about it and carries himself. He often comes across as someone who’s still stuck in the mindset of a fan rather than a lead creator. There’s nothing wrong with humility or joking around, but at some point, he needs to communicate with more confidence. In some moments, it honestly felt like Torishima was gently nudging him to step up a bit.

This actually makes me wonder if Torishima was involved with having Kondou Yuu—a shoujo editor—succeed him as Toriyama's editor? That would certainly make sense, although it's possible that it was just a coincidence.