Q & A with Torishima, Toyotarou and Nakatsuru at Japan Expo.

[Vegeta th3 4th]

Toyotaro often comes across as someone who’s still stuck in the mindset of a fan rather than a lead creator.

This is the risk you take by hiring a die-hard fan like Toyotaro to basically co-lead your franchise. Besides the clear lack of confidence he displays, he also lacks any knowledge regarding anything outside Dragon Ball, and even that knowledge is questionable. There was a conversation between him and Torishima at the same convention where he revealed his new manga, and honestly, he just doesn't seem to know what he's doing. He said something along the lines of trying to figure out how to write a story to justify 45 pages of fighting, and Torishima flat out told him that's too much. Dragon Ball's fights always served the story and characters, not the other way around, yet this supposed mega fan doesn't even know this.

What an eye opener this convention was. One of the major advantages Toriyama had back in the day was the very knowledgeable editors he worked with throughout his entire career, each one helping him bring out his strengths while improving his weaknesses. We also can't forget about Toei's producers, who weren't afraid to improve things Toriyama didn't stick the landing on. Over the past decade however, he was surrounded by Toyotaro, a person who knows nothing about anything, Iyoko, a person only interested in nostalgia, and Uchida, a cosplayer. What an absolute downgrade that is from the franchise's classic era. It's no wonder most of this revival was a train wreck.

This actually makes me wonder if Torishima was involved with having Kondou Yuu—a shoujo editor—succeed him as Toriyama's editor? That would certainly make sense, although it's possible that it was just a coincidence.

Torishima was very influential back int he day, as he was always moving up the ranks, so I assume he had some say on it.

[GhostEmperorX]

The section about GT's continuation being driven by what was effectively shareholder dependency was rather telling. They really weren't ready to let go of their empire just yet, were they?
As in, what part of it would have meant "economic trouble"? And how did GT's production help with that at all?

[VegettoEX]

As in, what part of it would have meant "economic trouble"? And how did GT's production help with that at all?

Seems pretty straight forward to me: Dragon Ball was still a massive series, and while they had other series running at the time that were "big", the One Piece manga still wouldn't start for another year (and Naruto two years after that, and Bleach another two years after THAT). While they were cultivating new series and authors, it made sense to keep one of the existing juggernauts afloat and pumping money into the system, even if it was anime-only.

For reference's sake, here are some of the series that were running in Weekly Jump in the exact issue that GT was announced (1995 No. 43). Got a bunch of stuff that's either legacy content or a little long in the tooth (KochiKame, Rokudenashi Blues, Jojo's, even Adventure of Dai), and none of the "recent" stuff here is setting the world on fire and much of it only runs for double-digit chapters. The Kenshin manga is itself still only double-digits at this point, and the anime hasn't even started yet (but is about to).

Yeah, GT made perfect financial sense across the board.

[Vegeta th3 4th]

The section about GT's continuation being driven by what was effectively shareholder dependency was rather telling. They really weren't ready to let go of their empire just yet, were they?
As in, what part of it would have meant "economic trouble"? And how did GT's production help with that at all?

To add to what VegettoEX said, Jump is now in a similar situation with One Piece, where none of their current running series are big enough to fill in the eventual gap it will leave once Oda wraps up the series. Back to Dragon Ball, a recent interview with his editors revealed that he wanted to end the story after Cell, and that the only way they managed to convince him to write one more arc (Buu) was to allow him more creative freedom. Up to that point, his editors would regularly push him hard to come up with better and better stories, something his (at the time) editor promised not to do if he'd continue for a bit longer.

[GhostEmperorX]

Seems pretty straight forward to me: Dragon Ball was still a massive series, and while they had other series running at the time that were "big", the One Piece manga still wouldn't start for another year (and Naruto two years after that, and Bleach another two years after THAT). While they were cultivating new series and authors, it made sense to keep one of the existing juggernauts afloat and pumping money into the system, even if it was anime-only.

For reference's sake, here are some of the series that were running in Weekly Jump in the exact issue that GT was announced (1995 No. 43). Got a bunch of stuff that's either legacy content or a little long in the tooth (KochiKame, Rokudenashi Blues, Jojo's, even Adventure of Dai), and none of the "recent" stuff here is setting the world on fire and much of it only runs for double-digit chapters. The Kenshin manga is itself still only double-digits at this point, and the anime hasn't even started yet (but is about to).

Yeah, GT made perfect financial sense across the board.

And given that Slam Dunk ended in '96, they were definitely looking at a looming void once Z was over.
I probably have a lot to look into regarding the way these areas work, but it already seemed like 9 years of non-stop DB and Z content (ramped up massively after the latter became part of the title), with a ton of different movies, games, etc would have led to burnout for just about everyone who was working on the franchise. Not sure what would even fill that specific void as probably nothing since has reached those same levels of output for the kind of series DB was.

[Vegeta th3 4th]

It already seemed like 9 years of non-stop DB and Z content (ramped up massively after the latter became part of the title), with a ton of different movies, games, etc would have led to burnout for just about everyone who was working on the franchise.

I definitely agree, which makes me wonder how on earth One Piece's team has managed to keep going for over 25 years now.

[Vegard Aune]

I definitely agree, which makes me wonder how on earth One Piece's team has managed to keep going for over 25 years now.

I mean as far as the anime is concerned, staff has had several shakeups over the years, with the current era very much being run by people who seem incredibly passionate about the material, both on the directorial side and on the individual animator side. The series has really felt more alive than ever in the past few years, despite the pacing often being less than ideal and Oda being a writer who clearly does not know the meaning of the word "restraint". (Though ironically Oda packing his chapters with a billion little things and cutaways actually kind of helps the anime, since he tends to have so much happening at once that plot points often kinda come and go without really getting any breathing room.)

...Not too many years before Wano though, yeah the anime felt absolutely dire. Fishman Island through, like... Zou? Maybe extend that to early Whole Cake Island? was depressingly lifeless and really felt like the staff were just going through the motions, though it doesn't help that even the manga felt like it was in a bit of a rut around that part.

...I doubt Oda himself feels the burnout though because like... Dude could at any point just decide to beeline it towards the ending he has supposedly had in mind since day one, yet even now, when the series is apparently in its "final saga", he keeps introducing new characters and plot points to complicate things. I think he just likes expanding the world in a trillion different directions.



...So anyway, Toyotaro. On some level I feel like people are a bit harsh on him, as looking at his output over the years I do think he has improved, and that the DBS manga after it stopped being an overly compressed retelling of the anime is, at the very least, a reasonably competent product. I had fun with Moro and Super Hero, and honestly, even Granolah was entertaining enough to me with some interesting character work at the beginning and end. (And then a whole bunch of tensionless fighting that went on for way too long in the middle, but not gonna lie, I think even Toriyama's Dragon Ball had that issue. Like I have gone on record before saying that I think even in the manga, the fight against Freeza is way too long.) You can definitely tell that his inspiration list begins and ends with Dragon Ball though, and I think dude would hugely benefit from broadening his horizons and also maybe studying both some drawing fundamentals and storytelling fundamentals. While his work is generally competent these days in my eyes, it also feels very... workmanlike. Rarely do I feel like his paneling or shot composition or writing or what have you rise above being "decent".

[JulieYBM]

I definitely agree, which makes me wonder how on earth One Piece's team has managed to keep going for over 25 years now.

I mean as far as the anime is concerned, staff has had several shakeups over the years, with the current era very much being run by people who seem incredibly passionate about the material, both on the directorial side and on the individual animator side. The series has really felt more alive than ever in the past few years, despite the pacing often being less than ideal and Oda being a writer who clearly does not know the meaning of the word "restraint". (Though ironically Oda packing his chapters with a billion little things and cutaways actually kind of helps the anime, since he tends to have so much happening at once that plot points often kinda come and go without really getting any breathing room.)

...Not too many years before Wano though, yeah the anime felt absolutely dire. Fishman Island through, like... Zou? Maybe extend that to early Whole Cake Island? was depressingly lifeless and really felt like the staff were just going through the motions, though it doesn't help that even the manga felt like it was in a bit of a rut around that part.

...I doubt Oda himself feels the burnout though because like... Dude could at any point just decide to beeline it towards the ending he has supposedly had in mind since day one, yet even now, when the series is apparently in its "final saga", he keeps introducing new characters and plot points to complicate things. I think he just likes expanding the world in a trillion different directions.

Next to nobody from the original 1999 rotation of staff remain with the One Piece animated series in 2025. I think the only three animation supervisors left from the original rotation of staff during East Blue are Hisada Kazuya (Episode #1's animation supervisor, humorously enough), Deguchi Toshio and Yokoyama Kenji.

In terms of series directors:

Uda Konousuke: Episodes #1-278
Shimizu Junji: Episodes #131-159
Sakai Munehisa: Episodes #244-372
Miyamoto Hiro-aki: Episodes #352-679 (arguably the roughest production period for the series)
Fukuzawa Toshinori: Episodes #663-891
Nagamine Tatsuya: Episodes #780-782 (a three episode anime-original arc), Episodes #892-1122 (the beginning of the current era that we're in, with an incredible number of skilled animators being recruited to work on the series. If I understand correctly, Nagamine was basically like a chief director during this time, but also personally storyboarded and directed episodes, too)
Kureta Kouhei: Episodes #892-1030 (credited beneath Nagamine as a series director)
Komaki Aya: Episodes #892-961 (also credited under Nagamine as a series director, she also storyboarded and directed episodes personally)
Itou Satoshi: Episodes #780-782, Episodes #962-present
Koyama Yasunori: Episodes #1031-present
Matsumi Wataru: Episodes #1123-present

Series Composition (i.e. head writer):

Takegami Junki: Episodes #1-195
Uesaka Hirohiko: Episodes #196-798
Yonemura Shouji: Episodes #799-1029, Episodes #1031-present
Tanaka Jin: Episode #1030

When it comes to script writers, nobody from the current crop of writers wrote for the early years of the series, they've all been slowly replaced over the years.

Character Designers:

Koizumi Noboru: Episodes #1-425
Hisada Kazuya: Episodes #385-891
Matsuda Midori: Episodes #780-782, Episodes #892-present

Character Design Assistants:

Takagi Masayuki: Episodes #892-894
Oota Asako: Episodes #892-present
Takahashi Narumi: Episodes #892-present

Character designers are a bit more interesting, because the look of the series has had fewer shifts. Even when Hisada was beginning to assist Koizumi, he was still doing so under Koizumi's original style. Once Koizumi left and Hisada took over, Hisada was basically matching Oda's style from the comic as much as possible, which really changed the look of the series. Nagamine bringing in Matsuda as the new character designer for his era really revolutionized the look of the series, again. This doesn't even mention how Satou Masayuki has been the sole character designer and chief animation supervisor of the movies since Strong World, too. There's a stronger sense of cohesion in that regard.

Wow, this post got really off-topic lol. Anyway, we see similar shifts with Dragon Ball Super's series directors, too. The complete lack of production time and staff to work with really burn series directors out quickly (that or executives don't want to let a series director control a series too long anymore, lest they be seen as taking ownership).

[Von]

Hi!

I was also present during this press conference, and DBZCom's notes are extremely accurate and good!

We compared notes and I'm currently properly transcribing my own notes to make sure not a single drop of nuance is lot to emptiness.

Here is my transcription about the Dreaded CANON question:

https://vondbz.medium.com/canon-nakatsu ... 04a9a306eb


The people present for this interview did a great job to ask relevant questions, and I was lucky enough to be the one to ask the opening and closing question! Torishima's favorite movies really speak about who he is as a person (and him not knowing what Harmony Cels are made me proud because he wanted to thank me for teaching him that and I'm like BROHHHHH lol)

[Shorty GZ2]

A funny thing of part of the discussion here being about Toyotaro (or modern Jump mangaka in general) displaying a lack of inspiration outside of Dragon Ball/other manga + that it's important to have more interests/influences is that the 1st paragraph of the 1st part of the interview is Toyotaro mentioning Kenshin, Slam Dunk, Star Wars, & Back to the Future + talking about exactly that lmao

[Von]

Yes exactly! This is why, when I asked that question ("your inspirations outside of manga"), I wanted to know if Toyotaro would mention comics and super heroes (as he usually gets some references there).
Torishima being an adopted French loud obnoxious man is big mood (we all approve of his taste lol) who likes Audrey Hepburn, The GodFather and 2001, Nakatsuru being a Matsumoto fan is felt, but Toyo mentioning Back to the Future made me very happy!

I'm so happy I got to open the interview with that, it really let to a fun interesting discussion.

[dbgtFO]

It's the year 2025 and we still don't have any interview questioning why the fuck Dende was Earth's God in DBZ Movie 6, which came out 7 months before that was the case in the manga and if there were more plot points lile this the anime team were told way ahead of time.
To be honest it's shit like this that makes me lose faith in humanity

Also as far as the whole canon thing, it's clear that is just Toyotaro's personal opinion on the subject.
There is clearly an idea of the original story being the holy grail, where everything else shoots off from, but they don't really try to clearly connect the offshoot shows to each other, due to their messy continuities.
Still they use them as they see fit in merchandise, video games etc.
For me it's not some relevatory admission. Gt, Super, Daima, Online, Xenoverse are all Dragon Ball, but their next project doesn't neccessarily have to take any of those into account and can eo their own thing divorced from all of that, if they so choose.

Also I agree that Toyotaro could have been a bit more inspiring. He's been working on DB projects since 2012, so it's about time he stops putting himself down lile that and not offering any qualified insights.

[Vegeta th3 4th]

It's the year 2025 and we still don't have any interview questioning why the fuck Dende was Earth's God in DBZ Movie 6, which came out 7 months before that was the case in the manga and if there were more plot points lile this the anime team were told way ahead of time.

I don't think it's unreasonable to assume that Toriyama and his editors kept Toei up to speed on what their plans were in order to make it easier for them to plan out episodes and figure out staff rotation.

There is clearly an idea of the original story being the holy grail, where everything else shoots off from, but they don't really try to clearly connect the offshoot shows to each other, due to their messy continuities.

This is pretty much it, yet so many fans refuse to accept this clear fact. Something not fitting in somewhere shouldn't prevent you from enjoying it. Look at Fusion Reborn, that thing doesn't fit in with anything, yet it's a fan favorite for the majority of the base. I don't know why fans can over look "canon" with that one movie, but not anything else.

I agree that Toyotaro could have been a bit more inspiring. He's been working on DB projects since 2012, so it's about time he stops putting himself down like that and not offering any qualified insights.

The reason he doesn't offer more insights is probably because he doesn't have any. He's a fan creator, not a professional author. That can work when his job is to draw someone else's story, but he's nowhere near qualified to be the main writer of the series.

[sangofe]

It's the year 2025 and we still don't have any interview questioning why the fuck Dende was Earth's God in DBZ Movie 6, which came out 7 months before that was the case in the manga and if there were more plot points lile this the anime team were told way ahead of time.

I don't think it's unreasonable to assume that Toriyama and his editors kept Toei up to speed on what their plans were in order to make it easier for them to plan out episodes and figure out staff rotation.

There is clearly an idea of the original story being the holy grail, where everything else shoots off from, but they don't really try to clearly connect the offshoot shows to each other, due to their messy continuities.

This is pretty much it, yet so many fans refuse to accept this clear fact. Something not fitting in somewhere shouldn't prevent you from enjoying it. Look at Fusion Reborn, that thing doesn't fit in with anything, yet it's a fan favorite for the majority of the base. I don't know why fans can over look "canon" with that one movie, but not anything else.

I agree that Toyotaro could have been a bit more inspiring. He's been working on DB projects since 2012, so it's about time he stops putting himself down like that and not offering any qualified insights.

The reason he doesn't offer more insights is probably because he doesn't have any. He's a fan creator, not a professional author. That can work when his job is to draw someone else's story, but he's nowhere near qualified to be the main writer of the series.

Can you please let your opinion on Toyotarou rest? You fail to mention Toyotarou has not had a competent editor. Besides, there's plenty of people who think he's a competent story writer and competent to be the main writer. I was more than happy with the Moro arc. You may not think he's not good enough but that doesn't mean everyone thinks the same as you do.

[Vegeta th3 4th]

Can you please let your opinion on Toyotarou rest?

No.

You fail to mention Toyotarou has not had a competent editor.

That doesn't change the fact that, based on these interviews, he doesn't know what he's doing.

There's plenty of people who think he's a competent story writer and competent to be the main writer.

The fan base's standards have not been the highest since Super's debut, so I'm not sure him being liked by these same fans holds much weight.

I was more than happy with the Moro arc.

I will say it showed potential, but he completely dropped the ball with the following arc.

You may not think he's not good enough but that doesn't mean everyone thinks the same as you do.

Being right can be lonely sometimes.

[JulieYBM]

I don't think that Toyotaro is a good creator, but at the end of the day, he is still a professional with some degree of experience and skill and calling him a 'fan creator'—when he legally has zero leeway to do his own thing—is just disingenuous.

[VegettoEX]

< snip >

You continue to be regularly combative and condescending. Your posts do not provide valuable substance to ongoing conversations. You have been warned about this. You acknowledged this warning.

This is a prime example of the "not technically breaking the rules but making it absolutely miserable for everyone else" kind of side-step that we have no problem taking care of. An extended temporary ban is being issued -- let this be an example for all.

[Von]

It's the year 2025 and we still don't have any interview questioning why the fuck Dende was Earth's God in DBZ Movie 6, which came out 7 months before that was the case in the manga and if there were more plot points lile this the anime team were told way ahead of time.
To be honest it's shit like this that makes me lose faith in humanity

You know what? I'll ask Koyama.

edit: Koyama's response:
詳細は忘れましたが、デンデが神様役を引き受けたのが漫画連載よりアニメの方が早かったのであれば、アニメで勝手にそのような設定を作ることは許されていなかったわけですから、編集さんを通して、そういう設定が鳥山先生からもたらされていたということでしょう。

(roughly:) I forgot the details, but if Dende took on the role of god was faster than the manga series, it would have been that such a setting was brought from Mr. Toriyama through the editor, because it was not allowed to make such a setting arbitrarily in the anime.

[dbgtFO]

It's the year 2025 and we still don't have any interview questioning why the fuck Dende was Earth's God in DBZ Movie 6, which came out 7 months before that was the case in the manga and if there were more plot points lile this the anime team were told way ahead of time.
To be honest it's shit like this that makes me lose faith in humanity

You know what? I'll ask Koyama.

edit: Koyama's response:
詳細は忘れましたが、デンデが神様役を引き受けたのが漫画連載よりアニメの方が早かったのであれば、アニメで勝手にそのような設定を作ることは許されていなかったわけですから、編集さんを通して、そういう設定が鳥山先生からもたらされていたということでしょう。

(roughly:) I forgot the details, but if Dende took on the role of god was faster than the manga series, it would have been that such a setting was brought from Mr. Toriyama through the editor, because it was not allowed to make such a setting arbitrarily in the anime.

Oh wow, it was that easy!
Thank you, thank you!
Koyama may have had questionable writing choices throughout DB, but he's a champ for taking questions on social media!
Too bad he kinda forgot the details, but as most people would guess, it must have come from and been allowed by Toriyama and co.

[Von]

His health has been improving so he's been kind enough to answer random fan questions, so I'm happy to be able to slide him some love every now and then haha
(I do like his writing philosophy in general!)

But yeah it's been 35 years, and it was "just his job", so remembering the characters and being a Big Nerd isn't much of a thing.