Best and worst recasts

[Jord]

Best: The new Japanese actress for Bulma. She sounds uncannily like the original. Great job.

Worst: The second Mr Satan voice. Daiksuke Gori did such a great job but both his successors miss a lot of the charisma Gori gave Satan. They aren't bad actor but failed to give Satan that bluster he's known for. He feels like an entirely different character.

[JulieYBM]

I thought that Tanaka Mayumi was a much better Uranai Baba than Takiguchi Junpei. I loathe when cis men play women in general, so that's definitely a factor, but Tanaka's performance is also just plain funnier.

[MasenkoHA]

Worst recast is whoever the fuck voiced Kame Sennin in GT that was just awful and a massive downgrade from Kohei Miyauchi.

Best, I’ll probably also go with Bulma’s new voice. If I didn’t know Hiromi Tsuru had passed, I’d never have guessed it was a new actress

[Dragon Ball Ireland]

Worst, I'll agree with Unsho Ishizuka. There was something missing in the Mr Satan of Kai and Super.

Best would be all of the Daima cast, I think they've done a wonderful job at emulating the older performances.

[GhostEmperorX]

Personally thinking Yuichi Nakamura would have been a better choice than Hikaru Midorikawa to succeed Hirotaka Suzuoki as Tenshinhan.
Agreed on Daima's young character casts, especially Vegeta whose voice actor was convincingly close to Horikawa.

[Jord]

Best would be all of the Daima cast, I think they've done a wonderful job at emulating the older performances.

Good call, if you didn't know better, you'd think that it was just the regular crew doing the voices. It was hard to tell.

I thought that Tanaka Mayumi was a much better Uranai Baba than Takiguchi Junpei. I loathe when cis men play women in general, so that's definitely a factor, but Tanaka's performance is also just plain funnier.

How about when cis women play male characters?

[MasenkoHA]

Best would be all of the Daima cast, I think they've done a wonderful job at emulating the older performances.

Good call, if you didn't know better, you'd think that it was just the regular crew doing the voices. It was hard to tell.

I thought that Tanaka Mayumi was a much better Uranai Baba than Takiguchi Junpei. I loathe when cis men play women in general, so that's definitely a factor, but Tanaka's performance is also just plain funnier.

How about when cis women play male characters?

I don’t have any personal issues with cis men playing women but there is a pragmatic reason to have adult women voice young boy characters; women are able to do much more convincing “boy” voices than grown men (compare Masako Nozawa voicing any of the Son men as children to Takeshi Kusao’s honesty distracting as hell performance as Chibi Trunks). You can hire actual young boys to voice boy characters but then you run the risk of said actor going through puberty when their character hasn’t, necessitating recast. Most productions that do hire real children end up going through 3-5 boy actors to voice one character


Voice over is also really the only area where you get cis women playing male roles. There is a long history of cis men playing women roles on stage and film/television. For the reverse you really only get that with cis women playing pre op trans men and Peter Pan

[JulieYBM]

Best would be all of the Daima cast, I think they've done a wonderful job at emulating the older performances.

Good call, if you didn't know better, you'd think that it was just the regular crew doing the voices. It was hard to tell.

I thought that Tanaka Mayumi was a much better Uranai Baba than Takiguchi Junpei. I loathe when cis men play women in general, so that's definitely a factor, but Tanaka's performance is also just plain funnier.

How about when cis women play male characters?

A cis woman voicing or playing a cis male character doesn't have the centuries-old baggage of women oppressing men on a societal-level. Men have historically held positions of power over women, with women treated as lesser beings, to the point of women having no control over how they are depicted in the arts. It's something that pervails even today, with feminity mocked and used as a punchline.

Obviously, my view on the subject is going to be colored by my experiences as a trans woman. Depicting women like me as 'men in dresses' with masculine features is a problem that media has had for decades and it's something that really disgusts me, given the sort of effect it has on not just how women like me are treated, but how we view ourselves.

The long of the short of it is: no more cis men playing women, please. Thanks.

[GhostEmperorX]

It's something that pervails even today, with feminity mocked and used as a punchline.

This is true, and one has to look no further than boy-aimed media as recent as 20-30 years ago, juvenile as it is.

The long of the short of it is: no more cis men playing women, please. Thanks.

Does, say, Shouta Aoi happen to be included in this? I think I've even heard Akira Ishida in a role or two like that.

[JulieYBM]

It's something that pervails even today, with feminity mocked and used as a punchline.

This is true, and one has to look no further than boy-aimed media as recent as 20-30 years ago, juvenile as it is.

The long of the short of it is: no more cis men playing women, please. Thanks.

Does, say, Shouta Aoi happen to be included in this? I think I've even heard Akira Ishida in a role or two like that.

Casting decisions send a message. Specifically hiring an actor who identifies as a man to voice a woman means something about how the creative staff want the character to be perceived. I don't condone it.

[gokaiblue]

The long of the short of it is: no more cis men playing women, please. Thanks.

What about in regards to roles like Edna Turnblad?

[JulieYBM]

I never did mention a 'worst recast', but that's mostly because I feel like we've all shat on the worst Muten Roushi voice actors enough over the decades lol

The long of the short of it is: no more cis men playing women, please. Thanks.

What about in regards to roles like Edna Turnblad?

i stole a time machine and went back in time and prevented all male casting decisions from happening

My less self-effacing answer: There's not much that I can do about it, but it does still give me the ick (like, say, Takiguchi voicing Uranai Baba, or any other man voicing some type of woman in anime). For as much as cisgay men like Divine and Harvey Fierstein are victims of homophobia, they are still ultimately cisgender men parodying womanhood and depictions of womanhood in the media, and they do still have social and political power over women.

[Jord]

It's something that pervails even today, with feminity mocked and used as a punchline.

This is true, and one has to look no further than boy-aimed media as recent as 20-30 years ago, juvenile as it is.

The long of the short of it is: no more cis men playing women, please. Thanks.

Does, say, Shouta Aoi happen to be included in this? I think I've even heard Akira Ishida in a role or two like that.

Casting decisions send a message. Specifically hiring an actor who identifies as a man to voice a woman means something about how the creative staff want the character to be perceived. I don't condone it.

Isn't it up to the casting to decide the best person for the role, that best fits the character, regardless of gender? Sometimes a man fits a role better, sometimes a woman. Sticking strictly to genders means a lot of characters would need to get recast, including women playing roles of the opposite gender.
It would be interesting to hear a man playing the Son roles.

[JulieYBM]

This is true, and one has to look no further than boy-aimed media as recent as 20-30 years ago, juvenile as it is.



Does, say, Shouta Aoi happen to be included in this? I think I've even heard Akira Ishida in a role or two like that.

Casting decisions send a message. Specifically hiring an actor who identifies as a man to voice a woman means something about how the creative staff want the character to be perceived. I don't condone it.

Isn't it up to the casting to decide the best person for the role, that best fits the character, regardless of gender? Sometimes a man fits a role better, sometimes a woman. Sticking strictly to genders means a lot of characters would need to get recast, including women playing roles of the opposite gender.
It would be interesting to hear a man playing the Son roles.

You don't need to recast women playing cis men, because that is not the same thing or equal to a cis man play a woman.

That being said, I also don't care if a cis man voices the Son family next. Literally anyone can voice them, once Nozawa has retired.

[Jord]

It al depends on what the creative staff wants the character to sound and act like. Do they want to sound the character like a male or a female? There are situations in which a woman may the right choice for a male role and vice versa. There are also lots of examples of women voicing male or even boy characters and sound really bad, sounding like a girl that smoked too much, instead of like a believable boy.

Frieza had both a male and a female voice actor at times (English dub), with vastly different results. In that case, the female voice actress was a bad pick in my opinion, due to sounding too female for what is a male character. I'd say the current English Freeza is a big improvement.

We shouldn't cast on gender, we should cast on the voice itself and how it fits the character. Male and female vocal chords produce decisively different sounds and instead of forcing gender "rules" on voice actors, we should use those differences to our advantage and be flexible with it. There are some things female vocal chords have trouble with, and the same goes for male vocal chords.

[JulieYBM]

It al depends on what the creative staff wants the character to sound and act like. Do they want to sound the character like a male or a female? There are situations in which a woman may the right choice for a male role and vice versa. There are also lots of examples of women voicing male or even boy characters and sound really bad, sounding like a girl that smoked too much, instead of like a believable boy.

Frieza had both a male and a female voice actor at times (English dub), with vastly different results. In that case, the female voice actress was a bad pick in my opinion, due to sounding too female for what is a male character. I'd say the current English Freeza is a big improvement.

We shouldn't cast on gender, we should cast on the voice itself and how it fits the character. Male and female vocal chords produce decisively different sounds and instead of forcing gender "rules" on voice actors, we should use those differences to our advantage and be flexible with it. There are some things female vocal chords have trouble with, and the same goes for male vocal chords.

We don't live in a vacuum. We live in world where men playing women in television and film is specifically done to make a character sound creepy and off-kilter or as a punchline. We also live in a world where women have few types of roles that they are allowed to play conpared to men. The staff of any project is not above being criticized for the choices they make in casting. This has been my point across every post in this thread and will continue to be.

[Jord]

Criticism at the casting should apply if the character doesn't sound the way it "should" in case of a recasting, or if the character doesn't fit with the design or writing. In the case of DB, we are used to certain characters sounding a certain way. If a character's voice suddenly sounds a lot different than what we're used to and the writing and design don't accommodate the casting, the casting seems to be off. See my earlier example of Mr Satan lacking the bravado, or the GT Roshi.

You want the best person for the job, regardless of gender. Not giving a man or woman a job out of pity, when there's a better performer available. That would be in insult to the pity hire. Getting a job just because she's a woman, instead of for her performance/skills.

From a technical standpoint male and female vocal chords are different instruments, lending them slightly better for different vocal performances. They inherently sound different, which can either work or don't work for a character. Generally speaking, a woman can produce certain type of voices that men struggle with and vice versa. Talented voice actors certainly can close that gap, but you can't escape the physical differences between both genders. Great casting is key.

I do believe in blind auditions for parts though, but I have no idea how voice casting is done in Japan.

[MasenkoHA]

You want the best person for the job, regardless of gender. Not giving a man or woman a job out of pity, when there's a better performer available. That would be in insult to the pity hire. Getting a job just because she's a woman, instead of for her performance/skills.

Not the anti- DEI argument

Like, even you have to know this argument is ridiculous right? If man with a dad bod and a beard and a curvy hourglass shaped woman both auditioned for the role as sexy stripper for a movie should dad bod get the part if he ends up being a better actor? An absurd example, to be sure, but the point stands. Casting calls asking for a specific gender, look, and age range exist for a reason. Your gender argument is inane because when it comes to acting, gender typically matters. Voice acting is a different beast since your physical appearance doesn’t factor in but you’re not going to cast a deep voice cis male to voice a sexy female character unless the joke is “she looks hot and traditionally feminine but surprise she has a man voice” Shigeru Chiba was never going to be cast to play Bulma, no matter how good of an actor he is.


Masako Nozawa wasn’t hired to play Son Goku because of your imaginary DEI over merit boogieman she was cast because Toei presumably was looking for an actor who could “convincingly enough” sound like a young boy from the sticks. Adult male voice actors were probably never a consideration to begin with because this little chubby kid obsessed with weiners and chest butts isn’t going to sound like a grown man. The role was probably always limited to female seiyuus with experience voicing young boys auditioning and Nozawa gave Toriyama’s favorite performance. And of course she kept the role into Goku’s adulthood because, well, let’s be honest until Daima, Toei seemed allergic to recasting characters regardless if they were aged up or aged down.


But regardless Julie wasn’t even arguing that gender was more important than talent. Her whole thing was she doesn’t like cis men playing woman because, from her perspective, it’s used to be a mockery of femininity. I personally thinks there’s a bit more nuance to it (but as someone who is a cis male and not into drag I also have no skin in the game) but at least meet Julie at her argument instead of moving the goal post and trying to make it about diversity hires BAD

[JulieYBM]

MasenkoHa out here consistently being an example of a cool cis guy.

I might reply later if I think of anything I want to really add. I'm heading to a Pride event, so I'll be out baking in the sun being a bisexual tgirl in public all day.

[Jord]

You want the best person for the job, regardless of gender. Not giving a man or woman a job out of pity, when there's a better performer available. That would be in insult to the pity hire. Getting a job just because she's a woman, instead of for her performance/skills.

Not the anti- DEI argument

Like, even you have to know this argument is ridiculous right? If man with a dad bod and a beard and a curvy hourglass shaped woman both auditioned for the role as sexy stripper for a movie should dad bod get the part if he ends up being a better actor? An absurd example, to be sure, but the point stands. Casting calls asking for a specific gender, look, and age range exist for a reason. Your gender argument is inane because when it comes to acting, gender typically matters. Voice acting is a different beast since your physical appearance doesn’t factor in but you’re not going to cast a deep voice cis male to voice a sexy female character unless the joke is “she looks hot and traditionally feminine but surprise she has a man voice” Shigeru Chiba was never going to be cast to play Bulma, no matter how good of an actor he is.


Masako Nozawa wasn’t hired to play Son Goku because of your imaginary DEI over merit boogieman she was cast because Toei presumably was looking for an actor who could “convincingly enough” sound like a young boy from the sticks. Adult male voice actors were probably never a consideration to begin with because this little chubby kid obsessed with weiners and chest butts isn’t going to sound like a grown man. The role was probably always limited to female seiyuus with experience voicing young boys auditioning and Nozawa gave Toriyama’s favorite performance. And of course she kept the role into Goku’s adulthood because, well, let’s be honest until Daima, Toei seemed allergic to recasting characters regardless if they were aged up or aged down.


But regardless Julie wasn’t even arguing that gender was more important than talent. Her whole thing was she doesn’t like cis men playing woman because, from her perspective, it’s used to be a mockery of femininity. I personally thinks there’s a bit more nuance to it (but as someone who is a cis male and not into drag I also have no skin in the game) but at least meet Julie at her argument instead of moving the goal post and trying to make it about diversity hires BAD

I am not talking about DEI hires or DEI casting in general.
I am talking about hiring the best person for the voice acting job. Male or female. That to me is the great thing about voice acting, when compared to on camera acting.

If a woman can best portray a certain character, regardless of gender, she would be the best choice for the job. Same goes for men trying out for a character. Limiting the casting opportunity on a basis of gender seems limiting. That's why I argued for blind castings, especially with voice roles.
Are men's vocal chords better suited for certain kinds of roles? Sure.
Are women's vocal chords better suited for certain kinds of roles? Sure.
I agree that Chiba as Bulma would be an odd pick. Reminds me of Ginyu's voice coming out of Bulma's body on Namek.
That does bring to mind alien races, which have less defined voices and I feel have more freedom for casting either gender.

Does that mean I think a specific role has to be performed by the same gender? Not necessarily. If someone can pull off the best and most convincing performance, while being from the opposite gender, good for them. Hire her or him.
We can agree to disagree on that.

Dragon Ball is an excellent example of this with Kuririn and Goku both being performed by women.
I do feel that Nozawa better fit a young Goku and would not have minded a recast when Goku became an adult, but that's my personal opinion. I feel that Kuririn voice (and Yajirobe's voice by extend) fit their adult versions better. Again, that's my personal opinion.