"Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

[Bardock God of Time]

I could see occasional one-shot chapters like the Super Hero Prequel one

I'd like to see an End of Z chapter showing what all the other characters were doing during the 28th Tournament: 17, Beerus, Whis, Broly, etc.

Just a slice of life chapter that doesn't step on End of Z's shoes too much besides being like 17 and Beerus were in the audience. So basically a B-Plot of the og End of Z

The next volume for all we know could be the last one with a bunch of one-shot stories concluding Super. I don't think we really need a Black Frieza arc or any new arc anymore. Frieza is a motivator for Goku & Vegeta to get stronger like Beerus is.

People will complain but I think the manga needs a send off that's respectful and doesn't try to do too much. (Though the latest One-Shot I think works as a send off with Piccolo waving Goodbye)

I missed Slice of Life content in Dragon Ball, I loved that during the Z Fillers and Super's anime run.

[IntangibleFancy]

It’s already been so long since the Super Anime ended, at this point I don’t think it will come back on the air. As the years go by the beloved voice actors are getting older too.

Taking such a long hiatus with the manga means people lose interest and even forget aspects of the story. Evident with how often I post now, there’s been so little news outside of Daima people tend to move on.

I know many people on this forum don't really care about the power-scaling stuff as others but hearing this news makes me think even more so that the Anime ending with Goku surpassing Jiren (and by extension Beerus) made the ToP ending better and more climactic compared to the Manga making Beerus a moving goalpost and making it so that Goku doesn't actually master Ultra Instinct till the end of the Granolah arc.

As much as I'd like the Anime to return, I can at least be glad that it ended on a high note as compared to the Manga which still has the loose thread of Black Freeza.

Fully agreed.

The Anime doesn't need the Moro and Granolah arcs to feel "complete." In fact, they would only make the ToP harder to understand, since Toei was pretty clear that UI Goku is meant to have surpassed Beerus, or at least come very, very close to him (unlike in the manga where he's still fodder).

When I think about Super returning, I ask myself:

"Do I need more arcs to enjoy the anime? Does the ending of 131 feel incomplete? Am I left craving for more answers to questions?"

My answer to all these is: NOPE!

Episode 131 feels conclusive enough for the anime, so it doesn't "need" to return. It might, and I would welcome it of course, but it certainly doesn't need to return. It feels complete enough as it is.

But isn't the anime how we get merchandise? There's never been an official answer on that, but it seems to be the case to me. It's been gone longer than it's been on air, and Moro and Granolah have never been in anything, not even in Heroes. It definitely seems like, outside of a few special cases like attacks, an anime adaption is the only way manga content can be put into merchandise or video games, and I think that's a good enough reason for me to see it return.

I also see Super as more than just a video game commercial though, but I think the anime needs a remake. Not just because the animation and art direction for most of its run was very bad, but also because there's quite a few points in it that don't really make sense, and it's completely inconsistent with the manga, and whenever we get anything new they have to avoid both adaptions which also frustrates me because, like I said, there were a lot of things in Super that were rushed and very poorly animated, and the movies could have fixed that, but they didn't.

Although I can see why that's a bit of a popular opinion. I'd understand why fans would be pissed if we just got off of a 7 year hiatus just to start all the way back at Battle of the Gods (I'd want it to start at U6/U7, the movie already told the story perfectly). But One Piece got a remake of Fishman Island, another remake made by WIT is currently in production AND it has a super high quality, on-going anime. I don't see why Dragon Ball can't have any of that.

[JulieYBM]

The Fishman Island remake was just a re-edit of the old episodes with new post-processing and jumbled editing to combine episodes imperfectly. The second adaption by Wit will actually be made from scratch.

While I'm all for doing a remake of Super so that it doesn't look like dogshit, I'd hate for it to be an adaption of the manga. I like the original ideas of the anime staff and I'm tired of anime adaptions sticking too closely to the manga to the point of not having its own identity for the staff to flex in.

[Basaku]

Episode 131 feels conclusive enough for the anime, so it doesn't "need" to return. It might, and I would welcome it of course, but it certainly doesn't need to return. It feels complete enough as it is.

For the anime alone yes, but the animated side of Super didn't really end on that - it did go further with new developements of Broly and Superhero. It may be technically missing Moro&Granolah, but since both the manga and anime actually end up on Gohan and Piccolo getting big powerups and Freeza back to his galaxy-ruling ways, it feels incomplete in both cases to me and both are missing a closure of some sort, esp after featuring buildup that largerly amounts to nothing at the moment without some kind of a narrative capping

[Vegard Aune]

For the anime alone yes, but the animated side of Super didn't really end on that - it did go further with new developements of Broly and Superhero. It may be technically missing Moro&Granolah, but since both the manga and anime actually end up on Gohan and Piccolo getting big powerups and Freeza back to his galaxy-ruling ways, it feels incomplete in both cases to me and both are missing a closure of some sort, esp after featuring buildup that largerly amounts to nothing at the moment without some kind of a narrative capping

Yeah honestly, my "Freeza still needs to be dealt with" thing still applies to the anime, if not as strongly as for the manga. Freeza was the greater scope villain of DBS Broly, and while he had no direct involvement in Super Hero, they still made sure to bring him up as the reason for why Broly was now on Beerus's planet. It's not quite on the same level as the manga having an entire arc whose primary narrative focus is to hype up a new and improved Freeza (Seriously, go back and read Granollah again; Freeza's appearance at the end is anything but random. The seeds are laid for it throughout the entire arc) but Broly in particular sends us off with two separate instances of Freeza being like "I'll be back for revenge later, this isn't over!"


...Of course the usual caveat still applies here that the future of Super is uncertain right now and it is entirely possible (and seeming increasingly likely) that this story just ends at Super Hero with no resolution, but that's just due to tragic real life circumstances. Freeza has still been a constant presence since 2018 and there's always been at least an undercurrent of "We have not seen the last of him and we're going to have to fight him again eventually."

[JulieYBM]

Save for maybe the Future Trunks arc, Freeza really does feel like the the ultimate Dragon Ball antagonist. He's a presence in the Beers arc, he's the lead of the Golden Freeza arc, he's the linchpin of the Tournament of Power arc, the puppetmaster of the Broli arc, the echo of the Moro arc and the specter in waiting of the Granola arc. That final confrontation with Black Freeza feels like the perfect way to wrap up Super, especially if he kills Beers.

[Basaku]

Yup. Especially as I feel that whatever happens post-EOZ should REALLY shake things up in a big way, cast-wise and villains-wise. Hence I don't want Freeza to be the forever dangling thread out there, creeping into post-EOZ period. Finishing it up prior to the OG ending seems fitting and at this stage, it's what most expect by now anyway. And everyone would be fine if it was a realky big/long final arc, akin to TOP doubling the lenght of all prior Super arcs.

Sure, we may not even get a conclusion to Super anime/manga let alone anything post-EOZ but if it DOES happen then I strongly believe the franchise should move onto next gen cast or just reboot itself fully. Goku & Vegeta have run their course as leads and they should progress to mentor roles in future shows

[Cipher]

I still genuinely do not understand the reading that the series is promising a straight-played Black Freeza confrontation, at least in terms of all of Dragon Ball (and Super's) prior content.

Should the series continue, he seems destined to be used as a measuring stick for a different antagonist and/or be part of a reluctant team-up again.

[Basaku]

I still genuinely do not understand the reading that the series is promising a straight-played Black Freeza confrontation, at least in terms of all of Dragon Ball (and Super's) prior content.

Should the series continue, he seems destined to be used as a measuring stick for a different antagonist and/or be part of a reluctant team-up again.

Beerus, Buu, Uub, Whis, 12 universes, Jiren, Zeno, angels etc. How many measuring sticks does 1 story need? Plus it kinda craps all over themes, sacrifices and arcs of Namek. Freeza been a villain too long for a redemption arc IMO and just letting him hang around for kicks is really going overboard IMO in the silliness directions. One thing is to inject some more humor into the franchise after Freeza/Cell arcs, but another is to try and act like this is just some slapstick manga with zero stakes where the main protag is super happy to have a space hitler roam around and kill, enslave and absue millions so he can have another measuring stick

I don't need it to be a banal straightforward fight with Freeza 3.0, but some resolution to his issue/presence is absolutely needed IMO, he became far too much of a topic through the entire revival era

[Koitsukai]

There's been enough tease: reviving his ass, hinting in a movie that he's out there planning something, being the Godot that actually arrives in the last arc and spares the MCs, and in the last movie, being the reason why the new addition to the payroll is hiding on the safest planet, for this to deserve some type of resolution.
Trail of crumbs should not lead nowhere.

I do think, if it ever happens, it won't be what we all expect. But the table has been set for this to be addressed somehow.

[Vegard Aune]

I would be 100% okay if the Freeza thread is resolved in some way that isn't a third big fight with him as the main threat, but yeah, there have been too many hints, for far too long, for him to just not get any sort of resolution if the story itself ever resumes.

[Zephyr]

A few scattered thoughts:

- Goku being unreasonably-accommodating to dangerous people for the sake of a good fight, and that tendency escalating alongside his strength, sounds an awful lot like Dragon Ball to me.

- Freeza isn't a necessary measuring stick, but at this point I think he's far and away the most interesting character to use as one, given his history and rivalry with Goku.

- If there are truly only 28 planets in Universe 7 with 'humans'/'mortals', then Freeza's pretty much ruling an empire of corpses out there. And if so, then I think people are severely overestimating the amount of harm he's capable of inflicting at the moment.

- Had Super continued/if Super continues, I think Freeza would eventually get some resolution, but I see no reason that said resolution should come before or be separate from Super's own end and resolution.

- As far as resolutions for Freeza go: I think that him ultimately living out his life and having a kid, and Super connecting with Neko Majin, has comedic potential that far outweighs any dramatic potential that "and then they defeated Freeza for good this time!" has.

- I trusted Toriyama's stewardship to maybe help deliver on the comedic and/or dramatic potential that either scenario ostensibly offers, but I do not trust Toyotaro without said stewardship to deliver on either.

- Consequently, I'll be more than happy if the manga never comes back to 'resolve' this matter. But I expect that it will, eventually.

[BernardoCairo]

Beerus, Buu, Uub, Whis, 12 universes, Jiren, Zeno, angels etc. How many measuring sticks does 1 story need?

As of right now, Beerus and Whis are enough. Although the fact that Beerus's strength continues to magically increase is quite annoying.

After the Broly movie, I imagined Freeza would become a more tactical villain. I thought he’d start recruiting stronger fighters to join him (like Broly) and use Goku and Vegeta as pawns in a larger chess game. That made more sense to me. Having him as a recurring threat is far better than just bringing him back to life every couple of arcs.
But then Black Freeza showed up, and that made me question things. I still believe he’ll stick around as a constant antagonistic force for the next few arcs. He’ll keep manipulating things, playing with Goku and Vegeta. But eventually, he’s going to step back into the spotlight as the main villain. And when he does, I wouldn’t be surprised if he aims even higher and tries to challenge the gods themselves or something like that.

[Scsigs]

So, asking because I haven't read more than the first few chapters 10 years ago, but how would you guys say the Super manga's aged & developed over the years as it's gone on? Especially compared with the anime?

[LightBing]

So, asking because I haven't read more than the first few chapters 10 years ago, but how would you guys say the Super manga's aged & developed over the years as it's gone on? Especially compared with the anime?

It grew in number of pages and individuality.

While the main beats are all similar, there's significant differences. Either characters personalities, how secondary events occur, stuff that wasn't in the anime, etc...

Later it went beyond the anime, with two exclusive arcs and a mini-prologue to the Super Hero movie.

It's more grounded and better written than the anime. I personally prefer it. That said, quality varies and there's clear cut flaws that Toyotarõ never improved upon.

[JulieYBM]

They're pretty different projects with different goals and different influences crafted by different types of creators, so I would say that each has their own interesting quirks that might at least be worth checking out once.

[Vegard Aune]

The arcs shared between the manga and TV show are all overcompressed and have a tendency to just skip the non-action beats with narration boxes. The Future Trunks arc stands out among them as probably the only one that flows well as a story on its own (though it still rushes the denouement something fierce), meanwhile the initial clash with Beerus, the Universe 6 tournament and especially the Tournament of Power feel like they're being fast-forwarded through and Resurrection F doesn't exist at all, despite the story calling back to it several times. Broly is also completely skipped with just a few pages here and there going "Hey, remember when we fought Broly and this and this and this thing that we want to remind the readers of happened?"

...Halfway through volume 9 is when Toyotaro started telling actual new stories, and while I wouldn't say he's exactly grown to the level of a great mangaka... I do think the manga-exclusive arcs are at least competently written and paced. Moro (volumes 9-15) being probably the peak of the manga, as while it is a very basic good VS evil struggle with a villain who is established early on to genuinely just be a power-hungry monster with no emphathy, it is still well paced, fun, and introduces at least one pretty compelling character whom I absolutely would not mind seeing again in potential future stories.

The following Granolah arc... sadly borrows heavily from Dragon Ball Minus, aka one of the least popular things Toriyama wrote. Like, if you take Super as canon then there is absolutely no getting around the fact that Toriyama's Goody Two-Shoes version of Bardock is absolutely canon as this arc's backstory includes him quite extensively, and aside from that there really isn't all that much to it beyond a whole lot of people being tricked into fighting each other despite not actually having any reason to hate one another. (Which, to be clear, is the intent, it's not like Toyotaro and Toriyama weren't aware that Granolah's anger is entirely misplaced.) I do think the arc is overhated but... it's not as good as Moro.

...And then what is looking more and more likely to be the final arc of the DBS manga ever is a largely 1=1 retelling of the Super Hero movie. I for one am glad it's here as I hated Toyotaro skipping/skimming stories, and I do think it's done well and that the manga's version of the story is an enjoyable read in its own right... But it is 95% just the movie, and the remaining 5% are largely incidental details that don't end up mattering.


In short: DBS volumes 1-8 (and the first half of 9) is a pretty bad manga. DBS volumes 9 (from the midway point) and on is an okay manga with occasional moments of real goodness. It has never come close to being as good as Toriyama's own work, but I do still think it's a fun read past the anime arcs.

[Zephyr]

I personally enjoyed Granola a lot more than Moro on my last re-read. The Minus Bardock stuff super fucking sucks, but the hubbub about "who is really the strongest in the universe?", the discourse about being strong vs. knowing how to use that strength, and the multi-directional grudges playing out, made for some reasonably-compelling martial drama.

Meanwhile, Goku becoming a space cop in the Moro arc, and treating it with any amount of gravitas or reverence, felt pretty lame and wrong. Also had a lot of weird little things that bothered me, from the mook designs, to #17 and #18 saying they do not have ki (something that can't really be true), to copying the "Goku gives Cell a Senzu" moment with seemingly no grasp on why that worked in the Cell arc.

[Cipher]

I personally enjoyed Granola a lot more than Moro on my last re-read. The Minus Bardock stuff super fucking sucks, but the hubbub about "who is really the strongest in the universe?", the discourse about being strong vs. knowing how to use that strength, and the multi-directional grudges playing out, made for some reasonably-compelling martial drama.

Meanwhile, Goku becoming a space cop in the Moro arc, and treating it with any amount of gravitas or reverence, felt pretty lame and wrong. Also had a lot of weird little things that bothered me, from the mook designs, to #17 and #18 saying they do not have ki (something that can't really be true), to copying the "Goku gives Cell a Senzu" moment with seemingly no grasp on why that worked in the Cell arc.

I enjoyed it more on first read and re-reads. It's definitely a messy storyline, but the core of it as a character-driven martial-arts drama (simultaneously small scale and involving literally the strongest guys in the universe) works, as do its thematic throughlines and ultimate punchline. I also found its use of character drama a lot more compelling, generally. Quite possibly Vegeta's most compelling role in any Dragon Ball fiction since Namek. Visually, while it has some of Toyotaro's usual foibles, Vegeta vs. Granolah is also up there for my favorite battles in Super.

The Moro arc is...safe. It feels like the Dragon Ball-highlights reel it's trying to be, which is simultaneously the best or worst thing about it, depending on what you're looking or as a reader.

So, asking because I haven't read more than the first few chapters 10 years ago, but how would you guys say the Super manga's aged & developed over the years as it's gone on? Especially compared with the anime?

Every one of its arcs is better than every one of the anime's, and it needs to be given more benefit of the doubt as far as how well it stands alone. I think going through its first three arcs (mostly; there was a bit when the U6 manga was ahead) after seeing the TV versions unfairly clouded people's expectations. There are two or three spots where you can see it was intended to be a media-adjacent product, but by and large it just feels like a more streamlined, focused, and story-conscious version of the storylines benefitting from a single-author execution. The tone and characterizations are mostly in line with the original manga, and IMO much is gained and little lost from a tighter focus from the outset on how each storyline is supposed to work.

[TheComicCurator]

Wondering if the zwarriors here can help me with a full scan of the page. What chapter and series is this from, Super? Someone said this is from Jacos series and I have that series in full, its not from Jaco.

https://imgur.com/NyRARlQ