Should the Saban dub get another release?

[Tian]

Curiously enough, there were two people who competed for the role of Krillin: Sonny Strait and some other guy who sounded like a match for Terry Klassen.

Strait ended up getting the role because he was considered a better "actor" (for FUNimation's 1999 standards) than the other guy.

Kind of, Barry Watson hated Terry Klassen's take on Krillin, and Sonny only got the role because he proposed something different that Watson actually liked

Oh, so that's where the "sound like the strongest human on earth" thing came from.

The one exception would be Sonny Strait as Kuririn. Strait said in an interview that when he got the call telling him he got the part, he was told that it came down to two people, him and another actor. Apparently, the other actor sounded more like Terry Klassen (Kuririn's Ocean voice), but Strait came across to them as the better actor. Then-producer Barry Watson said that he felt, if Kuririn was supposed to be the strongest human on earth, that his voice should be tougher-sounding anyway. So, Strait just went his own way with the voice.

[Kunzait_83]

Then-producer Barry Watson said that he felt, if Kuririn was supposed to be the strongest human on earth, that his voice should be tougher-sounding anyway.

I'm sorry, what now?

At this point, 25 years on, I have to just concede that I'm living in a completely parallel alternate reality from everyone else on the planet when it comes to these fucking voices. But even by typical FUNimation voice-glazing standards, that Watson appraisal of Straight's Kuririn voice is just completely delusional and detached from reality.

"Tough." On what planet?

[JulieYBM]

Tough is when your voice is a little bit less falsetto.

Okay, stupid shit aside, I think it's hilarious how binary and cisheteronormative we still approach voices, especially considering how so many of the men in Dragon Ball don't have deep voices in the original version.

America sure is obsessed with not looking gay!

[MasenkoHA]

Then-producer Barry Watson said that he felt, if Kuririn was supposed to be the strongest human on earth, that his voice should be tougher-sounding anyway.

I'm sorry, what now?

At this point, 25 years on, I have to just concede that I'm living in a completely parallel alternate reality from everyone else on the planet when it comes to these fucking voices. But even by typical FUNimation voice-glazing standards, that Watson appraisal of Straight's Kuririn voice is just completely delusional and detached from reality.

"Tough." On what planet?

Keep in mind this is the same guy (either him or Chris Sabat) that apparently directed Stephanie Nadolny to make GOHAN sound “more like Clint Eastwood”

[Kunzait_83]

Keep in mind this is the same guy (either him or Chris Sabat) that apparently directed Stephanie Nadolny to make GOHAN sound “more like Clint Eastwood”

Clint Eastwood? Gohan is all of fucking 5 or 6 years old at the major points in the story when Nadolny voices him, and they wanted him to sound like Clint goddamned Eastwood? No wonder they instead landed on "kid with emphysema".

Like I've always been saying: the dub had consistently tried way, WAY too hard to be "hardcore kewl", and only allowing for exactly one single note for every character, regardless of context (and in Gohan's case, regardless of even his basic age range). Forget even how bad/untalented the actors themselves are: problem numero uno with this dub is and always has been first and foremost its vocal direction, which from day one had always been dumber than dogshit in its core approach.

[Tian]

Keep in mind this is the same guy (either him or Chris Sabat) that apparently directed Stephanie Nadolny to make GOHAN sound “more like Clint Eastwood”

Oh... I guess Kirk Thornton is no longer the first and only one who was told to act like Eastwood when he was cast as Shadow.

Something like "River Phoenix in Stand By Me" or "Mark Hamill in Star Wars" would have been more, I dunno, more believable than Clint Eastwood.

[MasenkoHA]

Keep in mind this is the same guy (either him or Chris Sabat) that apparently directed Stephanie Nadolny to make GOHAN sound “more like Clint Eastwood”

Oh... I guess Kirk Thornton is no longer the first and only one who was told to act like Eastwood when he was cast as Shadow.

Something like "River Phoenix in Stand By Me" or "Mark Hamill in Star Wars" would have been more, I dunno, more believable than Clint Eastwood.

At least with Shadow the Hedgehog I can understand the logic.


Gohan is a dweeb and a prepubescent the entire time he’s voiced by Nadolny

[ABED]

I like most of the cast of the Ocean dub. I'd like it to not be lost to time, like maybe put it on Tubi.

[JulieYBM]

Keep in mind this is the same guy (either him or Chris Sabat) that apparently directed Stephanie Nadolny to make GOHAN sound “more like Clint Eastwood”

Oh... I guess Kirk Thornton is no longer the first and only one who was told to act like Eastwood when he was cast as Shadow.

Something like "River Phoenix in Stand By Me" or "Mark Hamill in Star Wars" would have been more, I dunno, more believable than Clint Eastwood.

At least with Shadow the Hedgehog I can understand the logic.


Gohan is a dweeb and a prepubescent the entire time he’s voiced by Nadolny

I imagine that Watson's entire frame of mind was, "Cute and feminine and high-pitch equals fag shit" and "We got to man these boys up!" Because American men—especially down South—are weird like that.

[Dragon Ball Ireland]

I like most of the cast of the Ocean dub. I'd like it to not be lost to time, like maybe put it on Tubi.

It won't be lost to time, it's not like the Animax dub of original Dragon Ball, which has no known recordings. We know the Saban dub has been not only preserved by fans, but it had many VHS, DVD and VCD releases that can still be purchased second hand. This dub is thankfully at no risk of becoming lost media.

I never thought of Tubi but that sounds like a good place for it, as would Retrocrush if Crunchyroll were willing to work out a deal to stream it on either of those platforms.

[Yellow Flower King]

Oh... I guess Kirk Thornton is no longer the first and only one who was told to act like Eastwood when he was cast as Shadow.

Something like "River Phoenix in Stand By Me" or "Mark Hamill in Star Wars" would have been more, I dunno, more believable than Clint Eastwood.

At least with Shadow the Hedgehog I can understand the logic.


Gohan is a dweeb and a prepubescent the entire time he’s voiced by Nadolny

I imagine that Watson's entire frame of mind was, "Cute and feminine and high-pitch equals fag shit" and "We got to man these boys up!" Because American men—especially down South—are weird like that.

Laura Torres is a gay Icon. Both cute, femenine and BADASS.

[Vegetto95]

Doesn't sound surprising, and tbh they're all the better for it.
Those two are overexposed at this point, and there's lots of other material that's far more deserving of their efforts.

Cosigning. Couldn't agree more. Discotek is - overall - by far the best game in town when it comes to anime licensing, they have been for long many years now, and its not even close.

1000% yes. I mean, just over the past two or three years, they've put out some amazing stuff on Blu-ray like:
- The 1998 Berserk anime
- Great Teacher Onizuka
- ALL of the Fist of the North Star: Legends of the True Savior films
- Angel Heart
- Captain Harlock
- Belladonna of Sadness ON 4K!!!
- Cyborg 009 vs. Devilman
- Kite with all three cuts
- Rainbow
- The original Urusei Yatsura anime
- Midnight Eye Gokū
- The original Gunbuster OVAs (only the compilation film had seen release in the US before, at least on Blu-ray)
- A Wind Named Amnesia
- Mononoke
- The live action Dororo film
- They're currently in the middle of releasing all of the Urotsukidōji OVAs and compilation films
- AND they're set in November to release a complete series set of the original 113-episode Galaxy Express 999 anime! They did first release that in three separate sets back in 2020, but those have LONG since lapsed out of print and go for bare minimum $400 combined on eBay these days! So FUCK yeah!!

Now, if only they could reprint the Lily C.A.T. DVD, since that typically goes for 300+ bucks despite being an hour long film, since they first put it out back in 2014... (and throw the Blu-rays of Vampire Hunter D: Bloodlust, Ayakashi: Samurai Horror Tales, and The Twelve Kingdoms and the DVDs of the Area 88 OVAs and Twilight of the Cockroaches in there pretty please.. also EASILY $150-200+ used each...)

And yeah, sure, they put out their share of stupid shit too, such as the 90s Street Fighter and Darkstalkers cartoons, Medabots, and so on over the past few year or so, but they ABSOLUTELY have a much, MUCH better ratio of worthwhile gems to throwaway fluff when compared to Funimation/Crunchyroll, or god forbid Sentai Filmworks (talk about yeeeeuuch... Sentai has a few greats here and there like Ninja Scroll, the original Vampire Hunter D, the 2019 Dororo and Blade of the Immortal series, Ajin: Demi-Human, Short Peace, Venus Wars, Appleseed, Made in Abyss, and a few others... but generally around 97.6% of their titles are just the most vapid, inane, generic, moronic slice-of-life/isekai/ecchi garbage imaginable), and they're MUCH more dedicated to releasing stuff that isn't almost exclusively from the last 10-odd years (Disco releases stuff from the 70s and 80s AAAALL the time lol).

It's VERY telling that of the few series that are currently licensed by FuniCrunch that I have an interest in, quite a few are insanely out of print and SUPER expensive (Texhnolyze, Serial Experiments Lain, The Tatami Galaxy, Haibane Renmei, Wolf's Rain, RIN: Daughters of Mnemosyne, etc.), when inane crap I couldn't care less about like My Hero Academia, One Piece, Demon Slayer, Soul Eater, Fairy Tail, etc. remain perfectly available from them and relatively inexpensive. I get that it's because those shows are all super popular because most American anime fans have the most generic, fad-chasing tastes possible... but give me a break. I shouldn't have to pay FOUR HUNDRED FUCKING DOLLARS for thirteen fucking episodes of Haibane Renmei JUST because it's fairly obscure, ESPECIALLY when said Blu-ray isn't even four goddamn years old. (But hey... at least they still have stuff like Cowboy Bebop, Outlaw Star, Shigurui: Death Frenzy, Gantz, Paranoia Agent, Hellsing Ultimate, Trigun, etc. readily available and fairly cheap, so it's not ALL bad, but still...)

[JulieYBM]

Doesn't sound surprising, and tbh they're all the better for it.
Those two are overexposed at this point, and there's lots of other material that's far more deserving of their efforts.

Cosigning. Couldn't agree more. Discotek is - overall - by far the best game in town when it comes to anime licensing, they have been for long many years now, and its not even close.

1000% yes. I mean, just over the past two or three years, they've put out some amazing stuff on Blu-ray like:
- The 1998 Berserk anime
- Great Teacher Onizuka
- ALL of the Fist of the North Star: Legends of the True Savior films
- Angel Heart
- Captain Harlock
- Belladonna of Sadness ON 4K!!!
- Cyborg 009 vs. Devilman
- Kite with all three cuts
- Rainbow
- The original Urusei Yatsura anime
- Midnight Eye Gokū
- The original Gunbuster OVAs (only the compilation film had seen release in the US before, at least on Blu-ray)
- A Wind Named Amnesia
- Mononoke
- The live action Dororo film
- They're currently in the middle of releasing all of the Urotsukidōji OVAs and compilation films
- AND they're set in November to release a complete series set of the original 113-episode Galaxy Express 999 anime! They did first release that in three separate sets back in 2020, but those have LONG since lapsed out of print and go for bare minimum $400 combined on eBay these days! So FUCK yeah!!

Now, if only they could reprint the Lily C.A.T. DVD, since that typically goes for 300+ bucks despite being an hour long film, since they first put it out back in 2014... (and throw the Blu-rays of Vampire Hunter D: Bloodlust, Ayakashi: Samurai Horror Tales, and The Twelve Kingdoms in there pretty please.. also EASILY $150-200 used give or take...)

And yeah, sure, they put out their share of stupid shit too, such as the 90s Street Fighter and Darkstalkers cartoons, Medabots, and so on over the past few year or so, but they ABSOLUTELY have a much, MUCH better ratio of worthwhile gems to throwaway fluff when compared to Funimation/Crunchyroll, or god forbid Sentai Filmworks (talk about yeeeeuuch... Sentai has a few greats here and there like Ninja Scroll, the original Vampire Hunter D, the 2019 Dororo and Blade of the Immortal series, Ajin: Demi-Human, Short Peace, Venus Wars, Appleseed, Made in Abyss, and a few others... but generally around 97.6% of their titles are just the most vapid, inane, generic, moronic slice-of-life/isekai/ecchi garbage imaginable), and they're MUCH more dedicated to releasing stuff that isn't exclusively from the last 10-odd years (Disco releases stuff from the 70s and 80s AAAALL the time lol).

It's VERY telling that of the few series that are currently licensed by FuniCrunch that I have an interest in, quite a few are insanely out of print and SUPER expensive (Texhnolyze, Serial Experiments Lain, The Tatami Galaxy, Haibane Renmei, Wolf's Rain, RIN: Daughters of Mnemosyne, etc.), when inane crap I couldn't care less about like My Hero Academia, One Piece, Demon Slayer, Soul Eater, Fairy Tail, etc. remain perfectly available from them and relatively inexpensive. I get that it's because those shows are all super popular because most American anime fans have the most generic, fad-chasing tastes possible... but give me a break. I shouldn't have to pay FOUR HUNDRED FUCKING DOLLARS for thirteen fucking episodes of Haibane Renmei JUST because it's fairly obscure, ESPECIALLY when said Blu-ray isn't even four goddamn years old. (But hey... at least they still have stuff like Cowboy Bebop, Outlaw Star, Shigurui: Death Frenzy, Gantz, and Paranoia Agent readily available and fairly cheap, so it's not ALL bad, but still...)

I'm not here to sing the praises of HeroAca or One Piece—two series that I personally do not think are good—but I do think it's worth baring in mind that this weird blaming of them and their fans—fans who, quite frankly, will never read your post either way—is honestly just—and I'm not trying to coming across as a bitch here—unsightly to read. Like, I was seriously rolling at the use of 'fad-chasing'. Who cares? Talk about the shit you like, instead, you're not winning anyone over with talk like that.

[Vegetto95]

I'm not here to sing the praises of HeroAca or One Piece—two series that I personally do not think are good—but I do think it's worth baring in mind that this weird blaming of them and their fans—fans who, quite frankly, will never read your post either way—is honestly just—and I'm not trying to coming across as a bitch here—unsightly to read. Like, I was seriously rolling at the use of 'fad-chasing'. Who cares? Talk about the shit you like, instead, you're not winning anyone over with talk like that.

I mean... I AM talking about shit I like? You know, like Lily C.A.T., Ayakashi: Samurai Horror Tales, Vampire Hunter D: Bloodlust, The Twelve Kingdoms, Twilight of the Cockroaches, Area 88, Texhnolyze, Serial Experiments Lain, The Tatami Galaxy, Haibane Renmei, Wolf's Rain, RIN: Daughters of Mnemosyne, etc. (oh yeah, and I forgot about The Biobooster Armor Guyver before... the Blu-ray of the 2006 anime adaptation is also well over $100 on the rare occasion someone has a copy up for sale)? ALL of which I mentioned before as being HUNDREDS of dollars each even used because Discotek or Funimation or whoever have let them lapse out of print indefinitely?

And really, my point in bringing up shows like My Hero, One Piece, Demon Slayer, Fairy Tail, etc. wasn't to shit on them specifically (again, I personally don't like them, but that was NOT the point I was trying to make) but rather 1) mainly to single out Funimation/Crunchyroll as to how much their licensing and releasing trends differ from Discotek and why I personally VASTLY prefer the latter, and 2) again, to point out how what I described in the above paragraph is just not something more casual anime fans who are into the generic, super popular childrens' shows have to deal with 99% of the time, and how I personally don't exactly find that tradeoff to be particular fair to the more niche-dwelling (for lack or a better term lol) anime fans like me or Kunzait or Hellspawn.

Hell, I could have just as easily mentioned stuff like No Game, No Life, or Majikoi Samurai Girls, or Plus-Sized Elf, or Peter Grill and the Philosopher's Time, or Monster Musume, or whatever other brain-draining crap made by and for horny, borderline-pedophilic/ephebophilic hikkikomori that make up 97% of what Sentai puts out instead of the handful of FuniCrunch titles I did mention. But again, that wouldn't have been anymore relevant to my overall point.

And like... WHEN did I ever put any kind of actual blame on the fans of said super popular children's shows? I blame the companies that put out the releases, as one should. And like I said, I get it. They wanna keep those series in print and say "who cares?' about the less popular/well-known ones. I get it; from a financial, corporate point of view, they're gonna want to cater to the masses who like the popular shōnen stuff and not much else (which is why I said "It's very telling")... but as someone who's NOT a CEO or major shareholder of Crunchyroll or Discotek or Sentai or whatever and has ZERO desire to have even the slightest association with people like them, but rather as a fan of those aforementioned series that are now restrictively expensive... I'm not at all happy that my only choice if I want to physically own those dozen or so aforementioned shows and movies that I enjoy is to shell out a combined total of THOUSANDS of dollars for Blu-rays and DVDs that were all maybe 30-40 bucks each when they first released. ESPECIALLY in this economy... *cries*

And again, that's something those companies could EASILY remedy with a reprint, even if it's just like once a decade or something... but sadly, I know better than to hold my breath for that (although ironically that IS something Sentai does from time to time, as they just recently re-released Ninja Scroll, the 2004 Appleseed movie, Vampire Hunter D, and a few others over the past few months, which WERE hundreds of dollars used up until then as they had all been out of print for over a decade).

I'm not trying to come across as an asshole here either, but maybe don't overfocus on one single sentence towards the end of my post to the exclusion of everything else I said? I mean, it's not like I spent AT LEAST 90% of the previous post talking about dozens of anime I like or anything (most of the time rather excitedly)...

[Yellow Flower King]

I am a One Piece fan and was not offended by their post, But I do give kudos to Julie, defending the fans even if not the series themselves. No Assholes Here.

[MasenkoHA]

Oh... I guess Kirk Thornton is no longer the first and only one who was told to act like Eastwood when he was cast as Shadow.

Something like "River Phoenix in Stand By Me" or "Mark Hamill in Star Wars" would have been more, I dunno, more believable than Clint Eastwood.

At least with Shadow the Hedgehog I can understand the logic.


Gohan is a dweeb and a prepubescent the entire time he’s voiced by Nadolny

I imagine that Watson's entire frame of mind was, "Cute and feminine and high-pitch equals fag shit" and "We got to man these boys up!" Because American men—especially down South—are weird like that.

Given that the entire approach to Frieza was playing into the creepy androgynous effeminate homosexual character trope, I definitely think that was it.

And I’m not a fan of the performance, like at all, because I think it veers too much into modern generic anime boy voice, but it’s crazy how much hate Clinkenbeard as Gohan for trying to make Gohan sound like an actual little boy and not “grrr I’m so tough I smoke 2 Marlboro packs a day and then chase it with bourbon grrrr” But no Kai dub Gohan bad because voice is high pitched and girly just like a majority of actual 5 year old boys

[JulieYBM]

And really, my point in bringing up shows like My Hero, One Piece, Demon Slayer, Fairy Tail, etc. wasn't to shit on them specifically (again, I personally don't like them, but that was NOT the point I was trying to make) but rather 1) mainly to single out Funimation/Crunchyroll as to how much their licensing and releasing trends differ from Discotek and why I personally VASTLY prefer the latter, and 2) again, to point out how what I described in the above paragraph is just not something more casual anime fans who are into the generic, super popular childrens' shows have to deal with 99% of the time, and how I personally don't exactly find that tradeoff to be particular fair to the more niche-dwelling (for lack or a better term lol) anime fans like me or Kunzait or Hellspawn.

You spent two paragraphs framing yourself above 'stupid shit', 'throwaway fluff', 'yeeeeuuch', 'vapid', 'inane', 'generic', 'moronic slice-of-life/isekai/ecchi garbage' works, and described people who liked them as having 'the most generic, fad-chasing tastes possible'.

And yeah, sure, they put out their share of stupid shit too, such as the 90s Street Fighter and Darkstalkers cartoons, Medabots, and so on over the past few year or so, but they ABSOLUTELY have a much, MUCH better ratio of worthwhile gems to throwaway fluff when compared to Funimation/Crunchyroll, or god forbid Sentai Filmworks (talk about yeeeeuuch... Sentai has a few greats here and there like Ninja Scroll, the original Vampire Hunter D, the 2019 Dororo and Blade of the Immortal series, Ajin: Demi-Human, Short Peace, Venus Wars, Appleseed, Made in Abyss, and a few others... but generally around 97.6% of their titles are just the most vapid, inane, generic, moronic slice-of-life/isekai/ecchi garbage imaginable), and they're MUCH more dedicated to releasing stuff that isn't almost exclusively from the last 10-odd years (Disco releases stuff from the 70s and 80s AAAALL the time lol).

It's VERY telling that of the few series that are currently licensed by FuniCrunch that I have an interest in, quite a few are insanely out of print and SUPER expensive (Texhnolyze, Serial Experiments Lain, The Tatami Galaxy, Haibane Renmei, Wolf's Rain, RIN: Daughters of Mnemosyne, etc.), when inane crap I couldn't care less about like My Hero Academia, One Piece, Demon Slayer, Soul Eater, Fairy Tail, etc. remain perfectly available from them and relatively inexpensive. I get that it's because those shows are all super popular because most American anime fans have the most generic, fad-chasing tastes possible... but give me a break. I shouldn't have to pay FOUR HUNDRED FUCKING DOLLARS for thirteen fucking episodes of Haibane Renmei JUST because it's fairly obscure, ESPECIALLY when said Blu-ray isn't even four goddamn years old. (But hey... at least they still have stuff like Cowboy Bebop, Outlaw Star, Shigurui: Death Frenzy, Gantz, Paranoia Agent, Hellsing Ultimate, Trigun, etc. readily available and fairly cheap, so it's not ALL bad, but still...)

Like, come the hell on, that's insufferable behavior. That's my big criticism and what ruins what could be an otherwise good post if you just focused on talking about what you do like, instead of just listing off a dozen older series and not really saying much about what connects you to them in favor of listing off a bunch of other titles—that you've presumably spent dozens of hours of your life watching to be able to describe with such striking language.

Given that the entire approach to Frieza was playing into the creepy androgynous effeminate homosexual character trope, I definitely think that was it.

That makes sense. I haven't heard the Freeza dub voice in, like, fifteen years, so I've completely forgotten that they kept hiring women and making them talk like they smoked a carton a day, they wrote weirdly homoerotic jokes into the dub.

And I’m not a fan of the performance, like at all, because I think it veers too much into modern generic anime boy voice, but it’s crazy how much hate Clinkenbeard as Gohan for trying to make Gohan sound like an actual little boy and not “grrr I’m so tough I smoke 2 Marlboro packs a day and then chase it with bourbon grrrr” But no Kai dub Gohan bad because voice is high pitched and girly just like a majority of actual 5 year old boys

Ye olden nostalgia and general American hatred of femininity sure is a hell of a drug, unfortunately. :/

[jjgp1112]

I feel like everybody that could've possibly cared enough about it bought the Rock The Dragon set.

[LostTimeLord]

It's VERY telling that of the few series that are currently licensed by FuniCrunch that I have an interest in, quite a few are insanely out of print and SUPER expensive (Texhnolyze, Serial Experiments Lain, The Tatami Galaxy, Haibane Renmei, Wolf's Rain, RIN: Daughters of Mnemosyne, etc.)

The fact that most of those titles are still in print in the UK (via MVM and Anime Limited) says to me that the underlying issue is Sony taking almost everything out of print and very slowly re-issuing stuff with Crunchyroll branding. Hell, even the original Dragon Ball is apparently out of print!

when inane crap I couldn't care less about like My Hero Academia, One Piece, Demon Slayer, Soul Eater, Fairy Tail, etc. remain perfectly available from them and relatively inexpensive. I get that it's because those shows are all super popular because most American anime fans have the most generic, fad-chasing tastes possible... but give me a break.

Those Shonen series are popular because of American tastes? Demon Slayer and One Piece represent three of the top five highest grossing films in Japan. And half of those series are still ongoing, so of course Crunchyroll's going to prioritise keeping them in print.

[Kunzait_83]

Gohan is a dweeb and a prepubescent the entire time he’s voiced by Nadolny

Sure, Gohan is a nerd and a sheltered mama's boy as well, all that is also true and super important to the character and also part and parcel of why the "Clint Eastwood" thing is so ludicrously stupid and inappropriate.

But like, much, much more immediately glaring than even that part of it is... he's five years old, guys! What are we doing here?