Should the Saban dub get another release?

[Vegetto95]

You spent two paragraphs framing yourself above 'stupid shit', 'throwaway fluff', 'yeeeeuuch', 'vapid', 'inane', 'generic', 'moronic slice-of-life/isekai/ecchi garbage' works, and described people who liked them as having 'the most generic, fad-chasing tastes possible'.

First; being someone who mainlines stuff like One Piece, Naruto, My Hero Academia, Bleach, Attack on Titan, Yu-Gi-Oh!, Fullmetal Alchemist, Fairy Tail, Demon Slayer, Jujutsu Kaisen, Chainsaw Man, Dandadan, etc. (which are the types of series that make up the main crux of what Funimation releases) to the exclusion of most else is basically the anime fan equivalent of someone who mainlines movies like the MCU, Star Wars, and The Fast and the Furious. That IS generic and fad-chasing. It just is. And I have had MOOOORE than enough experience in the anime fandom both online and off over the last two decades to see that that is the case with the OVERWHELMINGLY large bulk of the American anime fandom.

But here's our disconnect, I think... you clearly feel that I intended "generic and fad-chasing" as an insult. But I just meant it in a very plain, matter-of-fact way. I don't think One Piece, Naruto, MHA, etc. are good at all, but people that do? Cool. Got no issues with that. I have FRIENDS that love those shows! But that doesn't mean I feel like I need to censor myself as to what I think of those series. If someone said that Guyver or Vampire Hunter D or Galaxy Express 999 were vapid or inane or moronic, obviously I wouldn't agree with them... but I'm not gonna get offended and tell them "You take that back!!!" or anything... because we're adults and that's our right to say shit like that. Again, there's a VERY, VERY BIG DIFFERENCE between saying "I think Naruto is stupid" and "I think Naruto fans are stupid for liking Naruto". And yeah... find where I even so much as insinuated the latter.

Again, for the umpteenth time... my WHOLE ENTIRE point at bringing up those kinds of shows at ALL in the first place was merely to voice my frustration at the lack of curation Funimation/Crunchyroll has generally displayed for more obscure/niche anime IN CONTRAST to them, something Discotek doesn't have ANYWHERE NEAR as much of a problem with. And sorry, but I don't see why it's so completely inexcusable that I used a small handful of mildly unflattering (but still VERY tame for the most part when all is said and done) adjectives to briefly relate my feelings about those types of series on the way.

Now, as for the OTHER half, since you conveniently merged together everything I said about two VERY different sides of anime fandom acroos two entirely separate paragraphs... yeah, if you're (the general you, not YOU, Julie lol) someone who watches more than five minutes of something like Mysterious Girlfriend X, No Game, No Life, Oreimo, Monster Musume, Ikki Tousen, etc. (which are the types of series that make up the main crux of what Sentai releases) and DON'T come away appalled at how disgustingly and exploitatively sexist, pedophilic, and quite honestly completely fucking braindead they are... then you're probably not someone I'm gonna want to spend a lot of time with... Sorry, but I DO have the reaction of "yeeeeeuuuch" to those types of series, and I DO think they're vapid and inane... and since I mentioned Isekai series in passing literally one time, I supposed I'll address the fact that I don't think it's a very unique opinion at ALL these days to call the vast majority of them "generic" lmao

Like, come the hell on, that's insufferable behavior. That's my big criticism and what ruins what could be an otherwise good post if you just focused on talking about what you do like, instead of just listing off a dozen older series and not really saying much about what connects you to them in favor of listing off a bunch of other titles—that you've presumably spent dozens of hours of your life watching to be able to describe with such striking language.

Okay, but, um... that's COMPLETELY besides the point???? My first post was ALL about agreeing with Kunzait and GhostEmperor that Discotek is awesome and easily the best anime distributor in the US, and I merely listed off a few examples of things they've released that back up why I PERSONALLY think that. Everything else was in service of describing why I PERSONALLY think the other major labels pale in comparison to them. THAT'S IT.

Describing in detail WHY I like every single solitary show and/or movie I listed has nothing to do with any of that. Again, I merely was citing them for examples of why I PERSONALLY like Discotek, in the spirit of "Woah, dude! Look at all the awesome anime I love that Discotek is putting out!! Mondo Cool!!! (yes, you may kill me now lmao) I wish Funimation and Sentai were as radical and tubular as Discotek!!! Cowabunga!". Because my post was about Discotek. Not the Fist of the North Star movies, not Galaxy Express 999, not Angel Heart, not Gunbuster, not Kite, not Belladonna of Sadness, but specifically the company that has recently released them on Blu-ray. Nothing is added to that by me describing those series as, say, "well-written" or "emotionally powerful" or "beautifully animated" or what have you. Could I have? Sure. Do I think that fact that I didn't is somehow "Insufferable"? Yeah, um... no. Please don't confuse me being overly verbose with me having a desire to veer wildly off-topic. Cuz I don't lol

Lastly... I'm sorry, but the fact simply is that I have a sailor's mouth and like to exaggerate things for effect. This is legit how I talk in real life; I'm a very animated speaker and I'm very hyperbolic, but in a very tongue-in-cheek way, and the way I write is no different. Don't take me using descriptors like "stupid shit" and "throwaway fluff" and whatnot so damn seriously, none of that is anything more than me fucking around. Nothing of what I'm saying is meant in a fuming-and-foaming-at-the-mouth type of manner. And also, I very much enjoy making use of the Brobdingnagian store of adjectives and whatnot available in the English language. It'd be very boring if I just said *ahem* stupid shit like "Thing bad, me no like", so that's a factor as well lmao (and I do indeed find it rather funny that you get on me for being so jokingly hyperbolic whilst simultaneously calling something so utterly trite as me writing a list of anime I like "insufferable" )

[Vegetto95]

The fact that most of those titles are still in print in the UK (via MVM and Anime Limited) says to me that the underlying issue is Sony taking almost everything out of print and very slowly re-issuing stuff with Crunchyroll branding. Hell, even the original Dragon Ball is apparently out of print.

Problem is, most (if not all) of the titles I listed went out of print LONG before Sony merged Funimation and Crunchyroll. I would LOOOOOVE it if Crunchyroll would reprint Lain, Haibane, Tatami Galaxy, etc. at a reasonable price (oh yeah, and Armitage III would be nice too, forgot to mention that one before lol)... but again, not holdin' me breath.

And hell, I thank Kamisama above that I bought the Dragon Boxes and Level sets for the original retail price when they came out circa 15 years ago, because they've been ASTRONOMICALLY expensive secondhand for the past ten years and FuniCrunch CLEARLY has ZERO interest in reprinting those EVER, as evidenced by the fact that their insultingly shitty Orange Brick DVDs have been consistently kept in print at bargain basement prices ever since they came out NEARLY 20 YEARS AGO!!!!, AND they re-released their only-slightly-less-terrible-but-still-inexcusably-godawful Blu-ray "Season" sets under the Crunchyroll labeling just barely two years ago. So yeah... I've never had much faith in Funimation, and them being called Crunchyroll now changes NADA lmao (also the fact that they never released the Dragon Ball, GT, and Movies Dragon Boxes... and gave up on the Level Sets damn near immediately *grumblegrumble*....)

Those Shonen series are popular because of American tastes? Demon Slayer and One Piece represent three of the top five highest grossing films in Japan. And half of those series are still ongoing, so of course Crunchyroll's going to prioritise keeping them in print.

I never said that those series are popular BECAUSE of American tastes. I said that AMERICAN companies (in this case, Funimation/Crunchyroll, but Viz and a few others are in the same boat) place more of a priority on keeping them in print (very much including the ones that ARE long over, like the original run of Bleach, Naruto/Shippuden, Fullmetal Alchemist, Fairy Tail, etc.) because they're uber popular in America. The fact that they're all uber popular in Japan too 1) I am very well aware of, thank you very much , and 2) is irrelevant to the subject of Funimation/Discotek/Sentai/Viz/other American anime distribution companies.

But regardless, my main point was that, yeah, I get that those shows make you buttloads of monay, FuniCrunch, and thus you don't want 'em lapsin' outta print... but can't you still simultaneously throw us anime fans with more, shall we say, eclectic tastes a bone and pwetty pweese repwint some of those other shows that most other people don't care about??? Just ONCE????????




P.S. Because experience has told me that this MAAAY come up... no, I am NOT trying to use the word "eclectic" in a context of "Muahahahahaha, my anime tastes are FAR superior to that of you uncultured shōnen-obsessed swine!!!"... just in the context of its literal dictionary definition. Please put down the pitchforks and torches now, as I do faint easily.

[Dr. Casey]

The 'Clint Eastwood' voice direction for Saiyan and Freeza era Gohan is pretty hilarious. A gruff hardened cool guy voice would be wildly inappropriate for him even at the very end of the series when he's 26 because that's just not his personality, but trying to give that kind of voice type to a kindergartener... yeah. I too was hard-boiled when I was four feet tall, weighed about 35 pounds, and had just recently learned the alphabet.

[Tian]

The 'Clint Eastwood' voice direction for Saiyan and Freeza era Gohan is pretty hilarious.

It's not only ridiculous but very random as well. It's like whoever brought it up to the booth had watched a Eastwood movie the day before and thought it was a brilliant and revolutionary idea.

[funrush]

I don't know about SHOULD, it is a chopped up version of the show. At the same time it's the version a lot of us grew up with. Looking at recent ebay sales the Rock the Dragon set goes for like $400 on average. With people willing to spend that much, maybe another release is in order. They wouldn't even have to do anything new, they could just do a reprint of the exact same Rock the Dragon set. Maybe some different packaging for marketing purposes/to indicate it's a reprint.

But I'd much rather them focus on A) Putting out Dragon Ball on Bluray and B) actually giving DB and DBZ proper remasters although I understand Funi's copies are maybe not in the best of shape and Toei is probably stingy about letting them use Dragon Box stuff. That 30th anniversary set was honestly not bad but still could be improved upon, it's a bit overly smoothed/overly bright. It'd be nice to get something more like the Level sets although those had lots of grain, but not trying too hard to get rid of the grain is probably exactly why those sets look so crisp.

[eledoremassis02]

I don't know about SHOULD, it is a chopped up version of the show. At the same time it's the version a lot of us grew up with. Looking at recent ebay sales the Rock the Dragon set goes for like $400 on average. With people willing to spend that much, maybe another release is in order. They wouldn't even have to do anything new, they could just do a reprint of the exact same Rock the Dragon set. Maybe some different packaging for marketing purposes/to indicate it's a reprint.

But I'd much rather them focus on A) Putting out Dragon Ball on Bluray and B) actually giving DB and DBZ proper remasters although I understand Funi's copies are maybe not in the best of shape and Toei is probably stingy about letting them use Dragon Box stuff. That 30th anniversary set was honestly not bad but still could be improved upon, it's a bit overly smoothed/overly bright. It'd be nice to get something more like the Level sets although those had lots of grain, but not trying too hard to get rid of the grain is probably exactly why those sets look so crisp.

There was a fan remaster of the level sets that cleaned up the levels a little more and they looked fantastic! If they were to do another release, I'd love for them to look like this

[Hellspawn28]

No. Not *everything* needs to be preserved. Its ok to let some things phase out of existence (or in this case, "into the next dimension" or whatnot).

I have seen people that try to argue that every form of art needs to be preserved. Treating a 5-second Shrek commercial the same as some silent film starring Valeska Suratt.

[LostTimeLord]

you clearly feel that I intended "generic and fad-chasing" as an insult. But I just meant it in a very plain, matter-of-fact way.

I have never heard the word "fad" used as anything other than a pejorative term, and some of the franchises you listed have been popular for decades. What does "fad" even mean in that context? Is it as a synonym for popular?

I never said that those series are popular BECAUSE of American tastes.

It was strongly implied because you said "American anime fans" when (apparently) referring to anime fandom generally:

I get that it's because those shows are all super popular because most American anime fans have the most generic, fad-chasing tastes possible... but give me a break.

I agree that Crunchyroll should reprint those more obscure series, and that sitting on licenses is unfair to fans and the creatives involved, but I think the popularity of other series is neither here nor there.

Treating a 5-second Shrek commercial the same as some silent film starring Valeska Suratt.

I think the underlying problem is that we've ended up with two competing definitions of the term "Lost Media" that are hilariously different in scope. And while I think there's a lot to be gained from the new Shrek-and-friends "lost media" community, I really wish there was an established term for that other than "lost media."

[M16U3L2015]

No. Not *everything* needs to be preserved. Its ok to let some things phase out of existence (or in this case, "into the next dimension" or whatnot).

Yes, even in this franchise, there are more important things to preserve, like the broadcast audios than the Ocean's dub which already has preserved in official releases on VHS and DVD and is easily found on torrent sites.

[funrush]

Yeah what's up with that? How come they never use the broadcast audio even though it's out there online? Legal reasons? It's created this weird situation where the versions of the show you can get on torrent sites are oftentimes more "definitive" than the actual legal releases. Dub with both Falconer and Kikuchi, broadcast JPN audio, there's some versions with color correction now.

[Dragon Ball Ireland]

I think the underlying problem is that we've ended up with two competing definitions of the term "Lost Media" that are hilariously different in scope. And while I think there's a lot to be gained from the new Shrek-and-friends "lost media" community, I really wish there was an established term for that other than "lost media."

In my experience of this fandom "Lost Media" generally refers to content that is not in circulation, official or otherwise.

Off the top of my head, some examples of content that have no known recordings:

• The Creative Corp Product dub of original Dragon Ball
• The Animax dub of original Dragon Ball
• TV2's Malay dubs of original Dragon Ball, Z and GT
• Astro Ceria's Malay dub of original Dragon Ball
• The two Malay dubs of Kai (one from Cartoon Network Asia, the other from NTV7)
• Indosiar's Indonesian dubs
• RCTI's Indonesian dubs of original Dragon Ball and GT
• Alta Productions' Tagalog dub of original Dragon Ball
• Modernine TV's Thai dub of original Dragon Ball
• The Tamil and Telugu dubs of Dragon Ball Z
• The Kosovar Albanian dub of original Dragon Ball
• The Khmer dub
• Daewon Broadcasting's Korean dub of Kai : The Final Chapters

The masters for these productions may or may not be lying around in the studios they were recorded in, so you may or may not disqualify them as "lost" on that basis, but whenever it's unconfirmed (which is in the majority of cases like this) fans generally refer to them as "lost" because they are not in public hands.

I've also heard the Westwood dub being referred to as "lost media" because it hasn't been available in an official capacity since the early to mid-2000s, although as its been restored and preserved by fans most don't call it as such.

[90sDBZ]

I have seen people that try to argue that every form of art needs to be preserved. Treating a 5-second Shrek commercial the same as some silent film starring Valeska Suratt.

Not the best comparison. The Saban dub is 53 episodes of a show that many people watched and became fond of. It was aired and re-ran for several years and is an important part of the English side of this franchise.

To this day its influence can still be felt in the modern Funimation dubs, ie; certain voices still resembling the Ocean counterparts, pronunciations/names carrying over etc..

Above all else the fact remains that a good amount of fans still remember it fondly and would jump at the chance to revisit it. It absolutely should be officially available, in the same way the Theatrical Star Wars trilogy should be. There's zero downside in both cases.

[GhostEmperorX]

It's created this weird situation where the versions of the show you can get on torrent sites are oftentimes more "definitive" than the actual legal releases.

The last people who tried to rectify this (AB) got stonewalled by Toei for some other reasons apparently. That's realistically all this cash cow is going to get, alongside previews of more sensible directions.

[MasenkoHA]

I think the underlying problem is that we've ended up with two competing definitions of the term "Lost Media" that are hilariously different in scope. And while I think there's a lot to be gained from the new Shrek-and-friends "lost media" community, I really wish there was an established term for that other than "lost media."

Perhaps Out of Print Media for stuff like the Funi/Ocean/Saban dub and original in-house Funi dub?


Although Unreleased would be more accurate for something like the Westwood dub which had no vhs/dvd release to begin with but easy to found tv rips online.

But yeah I would think Lost Media refers to something that people knows exist but there’s no video record on the Internet (or only small snippets) and no home media release, even an oop one.

[AlexSketchy04]

Yeah what's up with that? How come they never use the broadcast audio even though it's out there online? Legal reasons? It's created this weird situation where the versions of the show you can get on torrent sites are oftentimes more "definitive" than the actual legal releases. Dub with both Falconer and Kikuchi, broadcast JPN audio, there's some versions with color correction now.

Maybe it's the same situation where creators / companies aren't legally allowed to look at fanfiction and derivative fan content

[TechExpert2021]

Yes. As 90sDBZ said, the Saban/FUNimation/Ocean dub introduced people in English-speaking countries to DBZ (and the Dragon Ball franchise for the majority); and despite the censorship, edits, dialogue rewrites, and unfaithfulness to the original Japanese version, the dub was massively successful at the time.

My suggestion for this is that the Saban dub should get both a home video release and a streaming release (MasenkoHA suggested Tubi for the latter). I would also include the original Cartoon Network/Toonami broadcast version (and maybe the YTV broadcast version for the Canadian home video and streaming release) of the 1999-2003 FUNimation in-house dub, since it's obviously a continuation of the Saban dub (both dubs are the same dub (1996-1998 Saban/FUNimation/Ocean dub + 1999-2003 FUNimation in-house dub = 1996-2003 FUNimation dub); the only differences are the levels of censorship and editing, voices, replacement music, and distributor).

[jjgp1112]

Also I'm pretty certain if Funi wanted to release an HD Blu-Ray of the Ocean dub they'd have to re-edit the footage to get it to sync up. Otherwise you'd just have an upscale that's worthless in the grand scheme of things.

[90sDBZ]

Also I'm pretty certain if Funi wanted to release an HD Blu-Ray of the Ocean dub they'd have to re-edit the footage to get it to sync up. Otherwise you'd just have an upscale that's worthless in the grand scheme of things.

I think the idea is just to have it readily available in some official capacity. Either an upscale or an SD Blu-ray would achieve that.

The Rock the Dragon set has long been out of print and goes for a high price on ebay. The Pioneer singles are a pain to collect, with some going for a high price, and they're missing NEPs and the TV Tree of Might dub.

[MasenkoHA]

Also I'm pretty certain if Funi wanted to release an HD Blu-Ray of the Ocean dub they'd have to re-edit the footage to get it to sync up. Otherwise you'd just have an upscale that's worthless in the grand scheme of things.

I know there is (was?) a fan edit that synced up the Ocean dub audio to the Dragon Box footage minus the OP, ED, and commercial bumpers (for obvious ish reasons) and they even took the time to match up the footage with all the cuts and edits (so it didn’t just switch to the in-house dub for removed scenes). What they didn’t do though was recreate the digital edits so it was the Funi/Ocean dub with the blood and punches to the face and what not left uncensored.

Obviously Crunchymation isn’t about to do all that

[jjgp1112]

Also I'm pretty certain if Funi wanted to release an HD Blu-Ray of the Ocean dub they'd have to re-edit the footage to get it to sync up. Otherwise you'd just have an upscale that's worthless in the grand scheme of things.

I think the idea is just to have it readily available in some official capacity. Either an upscale or an SD Blu-ray would achieve that.

The Rock the Dragon set has long been out of print and goes for a high price on ebay. The Pioneer singles are a pain to collect, with some going for a high price, and they're missing NEPs and the TV Tree of Might dub.

But thats the thing...Rock The Dragon was that official release. And I think for something that's essentially a historical artifact that doesn't align with anything they've done for the last nearly 30 years, thats a pretty reasonable situation it's in...and its been what, 10 years since that set now? It was already a niche release primarily for people who were kids in the late 90s that still had some love for it and now they're an additional decade older. It's a nostalgia inception. It's like I said before...I think in Funi's mind, the Rock The Dragon set maximized everybody who could've possibly cared.

The assumption is basically...people who really cared that much about this old dub already had their shot a decade ago and now it matters even less.