Dragon Ball Daima: Episode 20 - Official Discussion Thread

[Noah]

Seeing how LEGENDS completely ignored the mini versions of SSJ3 Vegeta and SSJ4 Goku from DAIMA and jumped straight to the adult versions just confirms the general thought here that the kid versions have way less appeal than their current ones.

Xenoverse 2 modders would have you believing otherwise:

Spoiler:

Fans will always make MODs of the latest stuff from the series, but I think the people behind of releasing official franchise products base their choices on what they know works best overall. And in this thread and on Reddit, there are posts like: 'Wow, the scenes really stand out now that they’re back to being adults' and stuff like that.

[Saiyan007]

Seeing how LEGENDS completely ignored the mini versions of SSJ3 Vegeta and SSJ4 Goku from DAIMA and jumped straight to the adult versions just confirms the general thought here that the kid versions have way less appeal than their current ones.

Is that really a surprise?

Can't think of any popular anime that has their character turned into kids for an extended period of time and is praised for it.It's not a formula for success.

[nineko]

Can't think of any popular anime that has their character turned into kids for an extended period of time and is praised for it.It's not a formula for success.

Conan Edogawa would like to have a word with you.

Fine print: I'm not saying that I like the "turned into kids" trope (I don't), and I'm not saying that I am a fan of the Detective Conan anime (I'm not), though I recognise its popularity, so I'm merely providing a counterexample.

[Yuji]

Can't think of any popular anime that has their character turned into kids for an extended period of time and is praised for it.It's not a formula for success.

Conan Edogawa would like to have a word with you.

Fine print: I'm not saying that I like the "turned into kids" trope (I don't), and I'm not saying that I am a fan of the Detective Conan anime (I'm not), though I recognise its popularity, so I'm merely providing a counterexample.

I'm not really very familiar with the show, but that's different, no? He's an adult for one episode and the premise is about turning back, he's a child for the entire 1000+ episode run. It's not akin to characters who've been adults for hundreds of episodes suddenly turning into kids for 20 or 64 episodes only.

[goku the krump dancer]

Detective Conan/Case Closed’s story is told (in the anime anyway, not sure about the manga) in a Pokémon-ish kinda way where there IS a general plot to the story and the main character has a clear goal but almost every episode is a self contained story that doesn’t push the narrative forward of getting Conan closer to his goal of finding the cure of the drug that turned him into kid and arresting the guys that drugged him in the first place.

I think along side the 1000+ episodes there was also a movie or two that was made to help finish the story. Funny enough the powers that be figured that the series was worth a remake which came out maybe a decade ago at this point.

[PhantomSaiyan]

Detective Conan/Case Closed’s story is told (in the anime anyway, not sure about the manga) in a Pokémon-ish kinda way where there IS a general plot to the story and the main character has a clear goal but almost every episode is a self contained story that doesn’t push the narrative forward of getting Conan closer to his goal of finding the cure of the drug that turned him into kid and arresting the guys that drugged him in the first place.

I think along side the 1000+ episodes there was also a movie or two that was made to help finish the story. Funny enough the powers that be figured that the series was worth a remake which came out maybe a decade ago at this point.

This show is wild for that, when I was younger it was on tv so I ended up watching a LOT of episodes and I never understood what the general plot was lol it was all self contained cases

I wish I could start over from episode or chapter 1, but there's so much content by now that it's overwhealming

[JulieYBM]

Detective Conan/Case Closed’s story is told (in the anime anyway, not sure about the manga) in a Pokémon-ish kinda way where there IS a general plot to the story and the main character has a clear goal but almost every episode is a self contained story that doesn’t push the narrative forward of getting Conan closer to his goal of finding the cure of the drug that turned him into kid and arresting the guys that drugged him in the first place.

I think along side the 1000+ episodes there was also a movie or two that was made to help finish the story. Funny enough the powers that be figured that the series was worth a remake which came out maybe a decade ago at this point.

This show is wild for that, when I was younger it was on tv so I ended up watching a LOT of episodes and I never understood what the general plot was lol it was all self contained cases

I wish I could start over from episode or chapter 1, but there's so much content by now that it's overwhealming

Series like that basically thrive on a plot/staff-based manner of viewing. I'd similarly reccomend episodes of Pokemon based on the staff of the episode or any other features that make it quaint, because not every good episode is a gym battle/League tournament episode lol.

[Koitsukai]

A few years ago, I watched more than 900 episodes of Detective Conan, and yeah, it's knackering, specially when it's not over yet, not even to this day, 4 years after I watched all of that.
Out of the 900 episodes, I guess hardly 100 episodes were pushing the story forward. Over 800 episodes could be skipped and nothing would be lost. Although, most of them were pretty fun.
By now, around 300 new episodes have aired, and I'm afraid less than 30 of those probably are about the main story.

[kemuri07]

A few years ago, I watched more than 900 episodes of Detective Conan, and yeah, it's knackering, specially when it's not over yet, not even to this day, 4 years after I watched all of that.
Out of the 900 episodes, I guess hardly 100 episodes were pushing the story forward. Over 800 episodes could be skipped and nothing would be lost. Although, most of them were pretty fun.
By now, around 300 new episodes have aired, and I'm afraid less than 30 of those probably are about the main story.

But you don't watch a show like Detective Conan to see the story move forward. There's a central premise, but it's really about the case of the week and watching likeable characters deal with the situation. Hell, a show like that doesn't really need to ever end.

[PhantomSaiyan]

Series like that basically thrive on a plot/staff-based manner of viewing. I'd similarly reccomend episodes of Pokemon based on the staff of the episode or any other features that make it quaint, because not every good episode is a gym battle/League tournament episode lol.

Yeah I figured it would be better off that way, I enjoyed watching ranadom episodes a lot, I just wish I watched at least episode 1 so I could understand what the general plot was.
I might just do that instead, watch ep 1, then whatever the community recommends, it beats having to catch up on an infinite backlog

[IntangibleFancy]

I've been watching the recent One Piece episodes and even if it's factually untrue I just can't shake this notion of Toei playing favorites I see when I compare modern OP to Daima and even the DBS movies. Especially when they couldn't even properly promote Daima during its run.

[JulieYBM]

I've been watching the recent One Piece episodes and even if it's factually untrue I just can't shake this notion of Toei playing favorites I see when I compare modern OP to Daima and even the DBS movies. Especially when they couldn't even properly promote Daima during its run.

Dragon Ball is required—I assume by Toriyama or Iyoku Akio—to remain more on model than One Piece is. One Piece as a production also has entirely different leadership. Which is all just to say that I think it's less 'playing favorites' and more 'things are out of peoples' hands'.

[MCDaveG]

The premise of Conan is bit different as many stated, than turning the cast into kids again, as the show is basically about adult being turned the kid and that's the premise. The show wouldn't work onward if he turned back the way it is setup. When I watched the show as a kid, it hooked me up on that resolution of him finding the cure and I hate cliffhangers and unresolved things, but as it ran, ran and ran, I realized that it's actually about the premise of him being the kid and solving crimes of the week like that... Conan gets treated like a kid, obviously, which is another difference to DB, as in Daima, besides them getting chibified as a gimmick, it didn't really affect the characters' power, besides few jokes about Goku's parenting etc. and reason to give him back the iconic staff. Hate to say it, but GT's power limitation made more sense, even tho that basically got thrown out of the window pretty fast and it didn't got resolution either, besides showing ghost Goku years later

[Noah]

7 months since Daima finale, and I think most people feel like it ended up being a pretty forgettable series, even though it was really well-animated. I still don’t get the point of making a new series that was supposed to be a tribute to GT (the least popular one of all).
It started off promising, but then didn’t even bother to explain important stuff that was going on.

This Goku Black quote in DBL pretty much sums it all up lol

[LoganForkHands73]

7 months since Daima finale, and I think most people feel like it ended up being a pretty forgettable series, even though it was really well-animated. I still don’t get the point of making a new series that was supposed to be a tribute to GT (the least popular one of all).
It started off promising, but then didn’t even bother to explain important stuff that was going on.

I had a sudden realisation that it really was that long ago...

I don't think Daima ever had a problem with not explaining enough. If anything, the series had a habit of overexplaining lore and trivia at the expense of good pacing.

[Koitsukai]

What were the things we can say "man, that wasn't clear at all"?

SS4 and Neva's intervention is the first that comes to mind. But what other ones were there? Daima really went out of its way to explain stuff like the Daimakai DBs, the origin of the universes, the Kaioshins and the namekians... even who put those portals in each realm, and why.

I can think of things that narratively are there just because or dropped plotpoints that shouldn't even be there due to the short nature of the story, but aside from SS4 and perhaps the origin of the Third Eye, which isn't really a dealbreaker, at least to me, I can't remember many things left unexplained, honestly.

[Yuji]

What were the things we can say "man, that wasn't clear at all"?

SS4 and Neva's intervention is the first that comes to mind. But what other ones were there? Daima really went out of its way to explain stuff like the Daimakai DBs, the origin of the universes, the Kaioshins and the namekians... even who put those portals in each realm, and why.

I can think of things that narratively are there just because or dropped plotpoints that shouldn't even be there due to the short nature of the story, but aside from SS4 and perhaps the origin of the Third Eye, which isn't really a dealbreaker, at least to me, I can't remember many things left unexplained, honestly.

While it goes out of its way to overexplain a lot of details, Daima does mess with the lore in a way where you just kinda have to tie loose ends yourself.

I think I made a thread a while ago about how all the chronology in Daima seems to date back a few thousand years ago at most - at least Boo's creation, the Namekian and Kaioshin exodus and so on. And frankly it isn't clear how or why Boo escaped to U7, why the Glinds were chosen as Kaioshin of the mortal realm or when they were chosen.

[Koitsukai]

What were the things we can say "man, that wasn't clear at all"?

SS4 and Neva's intervention is the first that comes to mind. But what other ones were there? Daima really went out of its way to explain stuff like the Daimakai DBs, the origin of the universes, the Kaioshins and the namekians... even who put those portals in each realm, and why.

I can think of things that narratively are there just because or dropped plotpoints that shouldn't even be there due to the short nature of the story, but aside from SS4 and perhaps the origin of the Third Eye, which isn't really a dealbreaker, at least to me, I can't remember many things left unexplained, honestly.

While it goes out of its way to overexplain a lot of details, Daima does mess with the lore in a way where you just kinda have to tie loose ends yourself.

I think I made a thread a while ago about how all the chronology in Daima seems to date back a few thousand years ago at most - at least Boo's creation, the Namekian and Kaioshin exodus and so on. And frankly it isn't clear how or why Boo escaped to U7, why the Glinds were chosen as Kaioshin of the mortal realm or when they were chosen.

Right, but it's mostly things unrelated to Daima's narrative. It's more about how to tie it to the rest of the franchise. But the story presented didn't come to an end with things unanswered sans the SS4 form. Sure, it had dumb things like "why Degesu kidnapped Dende when they were storming the castle?", or "why should Glorio be so loyal to Arinsu?", that did take me out of the story for a bit, but not knowing Boo's timeline or the Glinds's isn't really something Daima needed to address to come full circle.

Why the Glinds are chosen as Kaioshin could've been explained in Daima, but the story didn't really need it because it wasn't about Shin or the Kaioshins, or even about the Glinds. The can of worms Daima opened can still be explained in subsequent material, and I think it'd make more sense for that to be explained in an arc or series more focused on those things, in a more organic way.

[Yuji]

I don't think any of it needs to be explained necessarily either, but the entire narrative does kinda hinge on preestablished lore and plot details of the Boo arc which are kinda rewritten over. I know DB does this often but in this case it's odd because lore retcons are usually just glossed over, whereas here they actively go out of their way to explain everything to death.

[Zephyr]

I still don’t get the point of making a new series that was supposed to be a tribute to GT (the least popular one of all).

GT itself started out as a throwback to one of the least popular stories from the manga. So I can see the vision.