Would DB still be popular if it came today?

[jjgp1112]

I think it depends on whether it's the exact original or a version tailored to current needs.

I think the exact original would still be successful, even though it suffers from pacing issues when looking at it from a modern lens. It would be less popular but still a fair hit. Of course, if all the other shows would have have come out, DB would be criticized for relying on tropes (which it originated).

Looking at modern Dragon ball, trying to use the DB(Z) formula the result had less positive results. DB Super got cancelled after having only 131 episodes, which is roughly 2 times the amount of GT. GT however, came after at the tail and of around 9 years of DB, with fatigue already setting in at the end of Z.
Super getting cancelled after a 20 year drought of DB episodes at just 131 episodes...not that good.

Daima got mixed reaction and I am not sure how big of little it's success is. We get the obligated game DLC that goes with it, but for the rest I don't feel it had that much of an impact, despite the animation and being Toriyama's last DB work.

Super wasn't "cancelled" and certainly wasn't ended for lack of success. It did exactly what Toei/Shueisha set out to do but they ended it to ease the production shitshow and then it got stuck in legal limbo when they were ready to resume.

[JulieYBM]

For the record, these longer-running anime typically have their broadcasts planned out six months at a time. The production committee would have known around August of 2017 that the series would not be continuing into April 2018, so it's hardly a 'cancellation' so much as it is all of the parties coming together and agreeing that the best course of action was to end broadcasting new episodes so that there would be more staff available for the film that they also wanted to release. This is also why Nagamine Tatsuya stops being the first credited of the two series directors for those last six months worth of episodes: the decision was already made for him to direct Dragon Ball Super: Broly.

[MasenkoHA]

Super getting cancelled after a 20 year drought of DB episodes at just 131 episodes...not that good.

In what world is a 2 and half year run not considered good? Like?

It was never going to have a run equal to that of the original Dragon Ball(Z) run

[JulieYBM]

Super getting cancelled after a 20 year drought of DB episodes at just 131 episodes...not that good.

In what world is a 2 and half year run not considered good? Like?

It was never going to have a run equal to that of the original Dragon Ball(Z) run

And even if it 'did', it would have been rebranded before hitting that length with a new Episode #1 on more than one occasion, ala any other media mix series aimed at kids.

[Jord]

I think it depends on whether it's the exact original or a version tailored to current needs.

I think the exact original would still be successful, even though it suffers from pacing issues when looking at it from a modern lens. It would be less popular but still a fair hit. Of course, if all the other shows would have have come out, DB would be criticized for relying on tropes (which it originated).

Looking at modern Dragon ball, trying to use the DB(Z) formula the result had less positive results. DB Super got cancelled after having only 131 episodes, which is roughly 2 times the amount of GT. GT however, came after at the tail and of around 9 years of DB, with fatigue already setting in at the end of Z.
Super getting cancelled after a 20 year drought of DB episodes at just 131 episodes...not that good.

Daima got mixed reaction and I am not sure how big of little it's success is. We get the obligated game DLC that goes with it, but for the rest I don't feel it had that much of an impact, despite the animation and being Toriyama's last DB work.

Super wasn't "cancelled" and certainly wasn't ended for lack of success. It did exactly what Toei/Shueisha set out to do but they ended it to ease the production shitshow and then it got stuck in legal limbo when they were ready to resume.

I keep hearing about them wanting to resume the show (and of course the final episode hinted at it) but do you have any actual proof or sources that explain that the show was cancelled due to production troubles and that they were ready to resume a while after? I would love to learn more from it without just relying on Internet rumors.
As far as I learned, TOEI's DB profits didn't decline after cancelling the show, showing them they didn't need an expensive show to make money of the brand.

Also, ratings where dropping pretty much during the tedious Top:

This is like the thread for Dragon Ball Kai's ratings except for Super. I'll be curious to see how well this show does and hope it's successful because it'll guarantee it a longer run.

Episode 1 - TV 7.9% (4th) - DVR 43.3 (6th)
Episode 2 - TV 5.6% (7th) - DVR 83.4 (2nd)
Episode 3 - TV 7.0% (5th) - DVR 94.2 (2nd)
Episode 4 - TV 6.3% (7th) - DVR 75.8 (3rd)
Episode 5 - TV 5.3% (5th) - DVR 65.3 (5th)
Episode 6 - TV 5.2% (6th) - DVR 55.5 (6th)
Episode 7 - TV 6.0% (7th) - DVR 100.0 (1st)
Episode 8 - TV 6.2% (7th) - DVR 56.8 (7th)
Episode 9 - TV 6.1% (6th) - DVR 100.0 (1st)
Episode 10 - TV 5.1% (8th) - DVR 59.7 (7th)
Episode 11 - TV 5.0% (5th) - DVR 61.0 (6th)
Episode 12 - TV 4.7% (7th) - DVR 56.6 (6th)
Episode 13 - TV 6.6% (6th) - DVR 57.9 (5th)
Episode 14 - TV 5.5% (8th) - DVR 61.8 (7th)
Episode 15 - TV 6.5% (7th) - DVR 56.7 (8th)
Episode 16 - TV 5.5% (8th) - DVR 53.2 (9th)
Episode 17 - TV 5.6% (9th) - DVR 51.3 (8th)
Episode 18 - TV 5.8% (8th) - DVR N/A
Episode 19 - TV 6.6% (7th) - DVR 51.2 (9th)
Episode 20 - TV 5.5% (8th) - DVR 50.7 (9th)
Episode 21 - TV 5.0% (7th) - DVR 55.5 (8th)
Episode 22 - TV 5.8% (7th) - DVR 47.6 (8th)
Episode 23 - TV 4.7% (9th) - DVR 52.4 (9th)
Episode 24 - TV 6.2% (5th) - DVR 53.4 (6th)
Episode 25 - TV 5.7% (3rd) - DVR 50.5 (6th)
Episode 26 - TV 4.9% (7th) - DVR 50.4 (7th)
Episode 27 - TV 5.2% (7th) - DVR 58.0 (9th)
Episode 28 - TV 6.0% (7th) - DVR 58.0 (9th)
Episode 29 - TV 5.3% (9th) - DVR 53.8 (10th)
Episode 30 - TV 6.7% (6th) - DVR 53.5 (10th)
Episode 31 - TV 6.6% (8th) - DVR 54.7 (10th)
Episode 32 - TV 7.3% (7th) - DVR 54.6 (10th)
Episode 33 - TV 5.7% (8th) - DVR 60.4 (9th)
Episode 34 - TV 5.7% (7th) - DVR 56.9 (10th)
Episode 35 - TV 6.3% (5th) - DVR 58.0 (9th)
Episode 36 - TV 5.4% (5th) - DVR 63.5 (8th)
Episode 37 - TV 6.3% (7th) - DVR 89.8 (3rd)
Episode 38 - TV 5.8% (5th) - DVR 70.2 (5th)
Episode 39 - TV 7.1% (7th) - DVR 70.4 (7th)
Episode 40 - TV 6.2% (7th) - DVR 67.3 (6th)
Episode 41 - TV 5.1% (8th) - DVR 64.9 (8th)
Episode 42 - TV 5.0% (7th) - DVR 84.1 (4th)
Episode 43 - TV 6.9% (6th) - DVR 84.3 (4th)
Episode 44 - TV 5.2% (7th) - DVR 68.6 (7th)
Episode 45 - TV 5.7% (7th) - DVR 66.2 (7th)
Episode 46 - TV 5.9% (6th) - DVR 70.6 (6th)
Episode 47 - TV 8.4% (3rd) - DVR 70.9 (7th)
Episode 48 - TV 6.1% (6th) - DVR 75.6 (5th)
Episode 49 - TV 6.8% (5th)
Episode 50 - TV 7.0% (3rd)
Episode 51 - TV 7.3% (6th)
Episode 52 - TV 5.0% (7th)
Episode 53 - TV 6.6% (7th)
Episode 54 - TV 5.8% (7th)
Episode 55 - TV 6.4% (6th)
Episode 56 - TV 5.7% (7th)
Episode 57 - TV 6.8% (5th)
Episode 58 - TV 6.4% (7th)
Episode 59 - TV 5.9% (5th)
Episode 60 - TV 5.0% (6th)
Episode 61 - TV 6.0% (5th)
Episode 62 - TV 6.2% (6th)
Episode 63 - TV 5.7% (6th)
Episode 64 - TV 5.6% (7th)
Episode 65 - TV 5.7% (7th)
Episode 66 - TV 6.6% (4th)
Episode 67 - TV 6.7% (7th)
Episode 68 - TV 6.2% (6th)
Episode 69 - TV 7.1% (7th)
Episode 70 - TV 6.2% (8th)
Episode 71 - TV 6.7% (7th)
Episode 72 - TV 5.6% (5th)
Episode 73 - TV 5.9% (5th)
Episode 74 - TV 5.8% (7th)
Episode 75 - TV 7.6% (6th)
Episode 76 - TV 5.7% (7th)
Episode 77 - TV 6.0% (7th)
Episode 78 - TV 5.6% (7th)
Episode 79 - TV 6.2% (7th)
Episode 80 - TV 6.6% (7th)
Episode 81 - TV 6.4% (6th)
Episode 82 - TV 5.6% (6th)
Episode 83 - TV 5.5% (4th)
Episode 84 - TV 5.5% (6th)
Episode 85 - TV 5.9% (6th)
Episode 86 - TV 5.0% (7th)
Episode 87 - TV 5.5% (7th)
Episode 88 - TV 4.4% (7th)
Episode 89 - TV 5.3% (5th)
Episode 90 - TV 5.6% (7th)
Episode 91 - TV 5.4% (7th)
Episode 92 - TV 4.9% (7th)
Episode 93 - TV 5.6% (6th)
Episode 94 - TV 6.3% (6th)
Episode 95 - TV 6.1% (6th)
Episode 96 - TV 5.5% (6th)
Episode 97 - TV 6.0% (6th)
Episode 98 - TV 4.8% (7th)
Episode 99 - TV 4.3% (5th)
Episode 100 - TV 5.7% (4th)
Episode 101 - TV 5.0% (6th)
Episode 102 - TV 4.5% (7th)
Episode 103 - TV 4.4% (5th)
Episode 104 - TV 5.0% (7th)
Episode 105 - TV 4.6% (8th)
Episode 106 - TV 5.0% (6th)
Episode 107 - TV 5.5% (7th)
Episode 108 - TV 5.3% (5th)
Episode 109/110 - TV 3.5% (6th)
Episode 111 - TV 4.2% (8th)
Episode 112 - TV 5.3% (7th)
Episode 113 - TV 5.1% (6th)
Episode 114 - TV 5.3% (7th)
Episode 115 - TV 5.0% (7th)
Episode 116 - TV 5.2% (7th)
Episode 117 - TV 4.9% (7th)
Episode 118 - TV 4.6% (9th)
Episode 119 - TV 4.5% (6th)
Episode 120 - TV 4.6% (6th)
Episode 121 - TV 4.0% (7th)
Episode 122 - TV 4.2% (5th)
Episode 123 - TV 4.5% (7th)
Episode 124 - TV 4.6% (7th)
Episode 125 - TV 4.6% (7th)
Episode 126 - TV 4.8% (8th)
Episode 127 - TV 4.9% (7th)
Episode 128 - TV 4.9% (7th)
Episode 129 - TV 5.5% (5th)
Episode 130 - TV 4.7% (4th)
Episode 131 - TV 5.7% (5th)

[jjgp1112]

...the series was the reason those profits were high to begin with.

Kai is what was explicitly cancelled due to lukewarm effect on merchandise sales, Super simply ended. Masaki Sato and other animators have also spoken about working on a continuation of Super on Twitter during that time period. Otherwise, I'm not going to get in a bad faith battle of "proof" knowing you'll dismiss anything that's not directly said by a Toei executive as hearsay; it's the same sources that as I recall, you said were completely wrong about everything they told us about Daima leading up to the announcement, despite getting every detail right down to the character designer and director, simply because of the name "Dragon Ball Magic"...which itself was just a mistranslation/misunderstanding of "Daima."

[MasenkoHA]

I think it depends on whether it's the exact original or a version tailored to current needs.

I think the exact original would still be successful, even though it suffers from pacing issues when looking at it from a modern lens. It would be less popular but still a fair hit. Of course, if all the other shows would have have come out, DB would be criticized for relying on tropes (which it originated).

Looking at modern Dragon ball, trying to use the DB(Z) formula the result had less positive results. DB Super got cancelled after having only 131 episodes, which is roughly 2 times the amount of GT. GT however, came after at the tail and of around 9 years of DB, with fatigue already setting in at the end of Z.
Super getting cancelled after a 20 year drought of DB episodes at just 131 episodes...not that good.

Daima got mixed reaction and I am not sure how big of little it's success is. We get the obligated game DLC that goes with it, but for the rest I don't feel it had that much of an impact, despite the animation and being Toriyama's last DB work.

Super wasn't "cancelled" and certainly wasn't ended for lack of success. It did exactly what Toei/Shueisha set out to do but they ended it to ease the production shitshow and then it got stuck in legal limbo when they were ready to resume.

I keep hearing about them wanting to resume the show (and of course the final episode hinted at it) but do you have any actual proof or sources that explain that the show was cancelled due to production troubles and that they were ready to resume a while after? I would love to learn more from it without just relying on Internet rumors.
As far as I learned, TOEI's DB profits didn't decline after cancelling the show, showing them they didn't need an expensive show to make money of the brand.

Also, ratings where dropping pretty much during the tedious Top:

This is like the thread for Dragon Ball Kai's ratings except for Super. I'll be curious to see how well this show does and hope it's successful because it'll guarantee it a longer run.

Episode 1 - TV 7.9% (4th) - DVR 43.3 (6th)
Episode 2 - TV 5.6% (7th) - DVR 83.4 (2nd)
Episode 3 - TV 7.0% (5th) - DVR 94.2 (2nd)
Episode 4 - TV 6.3% (7th) - DVR 75.8 (3rd)
Episode 5 - TV 5.3% (5th) - DVR 65.3 (5th)
Episode 6 - TV 5.2% (6th) - DVR 55.5 (6th)
Episode 7 - TV 6.0% (7th) - DVR 100.0 (1st)
Episode 8 - TV 6.2% (7th) - DVR 56.8 (7th)
Episode 9 - TV 6.1% (6th) - DVR 100.0 (1st)
Episode 10 - TV 5.1% (8th) - DVR 59.7 (7th)
Episode 11 - TV 5.0% (5th) - DVR 61.0 (6th)
Episode 12 - TV 4.7% (7th) - DVR 56.6 (6th)
Episode 13 - TV 6.6% (6th) - DVR 57.9 (5th)
Episode 14 - TV 5.5% (8th) - DVR 61.8 (7th)
Episode 15 - TV 6.5% (7th) - DVR 56.7 (8th)
Episode 16 - TV 5.5% (8th) - DVR 53.2 (9th)
Episode 17 - TV 5.6% (9th) - DVR 51.3 (8th)
Episode 18 - TV 5.8% (8th) - DVR N/A
Episode 19 - TV 6.6% (7th) - DVR 51.2 (9th)
Episode 20 - TV 5.5% (8th) - DVR 50.7 (9th)
Episode 21 - TV 5.0% (7th) - DVR 55.5 (8th)
Episode 22 - TV 5.8% (7th) - DVR 47.6 (8th)
Episode 23 - TV 4.7% (9th) - DVR 52.4 (9th)
Episode 24 - TV 6.2% (5th) - DVR 53.4 (6th)
Episode 25 - TV 5.7% (3rd) - DVR 50.5 (6th)
Episode 26 - TV 4.9% (7th) - DVR 50.4 (7th)
Episode 27 - TV 5.2% (7th) - DVR 58.0 (9th)
Episode 28 - TV 6.0% (7th) - DVR 58.0 (9th)
Episode 29 - TV 5.3% (9th) - DVR 53.8 (10th)
Episode 30 - TV 6.7% (6th) - DVR 53.5 (10th)
Episode 31 - TV 6.6% (8th) - DVR 54.7 (10th)
Episode 32 - TV 7.3% (7th) - DVR 54.6 (10th)
Episode 33 - TV 5.7% (8th) - DVR 60.4 (9th)
Episode 34 - TV 5.7% (7th) - DVR 56.9 (10th)
Episode 35 - TV 6.3% (5th) - DVR 58.0 (9th)
Episode 36 - TV 5.4% (5th) - DVR 63.5 (8th)
Episode 37 - TV 6.3% (7th) - DVR 89.8 (3rd)
Episode 38 - TV 5.8% (5th) - DVR 70.2 (5th)
Episode 39 - TV 7.1% (7th) - DVR 70.4 (7th)
Episode 40 - TV 6.2% (7th) - DVR 67.3 (6th)
Episode 41 - TV 5.1% (8th) - DVR 64.9 (8th)
Episode 42 - TV 5.0% (7th) - DVR 84.1 (4th)
Episode 43 - TV 6.9% (6th) - DVR 84.3 (4th)
Episode 44 - TV 5.2% (7th) - DVR 68.6 (7th)
Episode 45 - TV 5.7% (7th) - DVR 66.2 (7th)
Episode 46 - TV 5.9% (6th) - DVR 70.6 (6th)
Episode 47 - TV 8.4% (3rd) - DVR 70.9 (7th)
Episode 48 - TV 6.1% (6th) - DVR 75.6 (5th)
Episode 49 - TV 6.8% (5th)
Episode 50 - TV 7.0% (3rd)
Episode 51 - TV 7.3% (6th)
Episode 52 - TV 5.0% (7th)
Episode 53 - TV 6.6% (7th)
Episode 54 - TV 5.8% (7th)
Episode 55 - TV 6.4% (6th)
Episode 56 - TV 5.7% (7th)
Episode 57 - TV 6.8% (5th)
Episode 58 - TV 6.4% (7th)
Episode 59 - TV 5.9% (5th)
Episode 60 - TV 5.0% (6th)
Episode 61 - TV 6.0% (5th)
Episode 62 - TV 6.2% (6th)
Episode 63 - TV 5.7% (6th)
Episode 64 - TV 5.6% (7th)
Episode 65 - TV 5.7% (7th)
Episode 66 - TV 6.6% (4th)
Episode 67 - TV 6.7% (7th)
Episode 68 - TV 6.2% (6th)
Episode 69 - TV 7.1% (7th)
Episode 70 - TV 6.2% (8th)
Episode 71 - TV 6.7% (7th)
Episode 72 - TV 5.6% (5th)
Episode 73 - TV 5.9% (5th)
Episode 74 - TV 5.8% (7th)
Episode 75 - TV 7.6% (6th)
Episode 76 - TV 5.7% (7th)
Episode 77 - TV 6.0% (7th)
Episode 78 - TV 5.6% (7th)
Episode 79 - TV 6.2% (7th)
Episode 80 - TV 6.6% (7th)
Episode 81 - TV 6.4% (6th)
Episode 82 - TV 5.6% (6th)
Episode 83 - TV 5.5% (4th)
Episode 84 - TV 5.5% (6th)
Episode 85 - TV 5.9% (6th)
Episode 86 - TV 5.0% (7th)
Episode 87 - TV 5.5% (7th)
Episode 88 - TV 4.4% (7th)
Episode 89 - TV 5.3% (5th)
Episode 90 - TV 5.6% (7th)
Episode 91 - TV 5.4% (7th)
Episode 92 - TV 4.9% (7th)
Episode 93 - TV 5.6% (6th)
Episode 94 - TV 6.3% (6th)
Episode 95 - TV 6.1% (6th)
Episode 96 - TV 5.5% (6th)
Episode 97 - TV 6.0% (6th)
Episode 98 - TV 4.8% (7th)
Episode 99 - TV 4.3% (5th)
Episode 100 - TV 5.7% (4th)
Episode 101 - TV 5.0% (6th)
Episode 102 - TV 4.5% (7th)
Episode 103 - TV 4.4% (5th)
Episode 104 - TV 5.0% (7th)
Episode 105 - TV 4.6% (8th)
Episode 106 - TV 5.0% (6th)
Episode 107 - TV 5.5% (7th)
Episode 108 - TV 5.3% (5th)
Episode 109/110 - TV 3.5% (6th)
Episode 111 - TV 4.2% (8th)
Episode 112 - TV 5.3% (7th)
Episode 113 - TV 5.1% (6th)
Episode 114 - TV 5.3% (7th)
Episode 115 - TV 5.0% (7th)
Episode 116 - TV 5.2% (7th)
Episode 117 - TV 4.9% (7th)
Episode 118 - TV 4.6% (9th)
Episode 119 - TV 4.5% (6th)
Episode 120 - TV 4.6% (6th)
Episode 121 - TV 4.0% (7th)
Episode 122 - TV 4.2% (5th)
Episode 123 - TV 4.5% (7th)
Episode 124 - TV 4.6% (7th)
Episode 125 - TV 4.6% (7th)
Episode 126 - TV 4.8% (8th)
Episode 127 - TV 4.9% (7th)
Episode 128 - TV 4.9% (7th)
Episode 129 - TV 5.5% (5th)
Episode 130 - TV 4.7% (4th)
Episode 131 - TV 5.7% (5th)

So the ratings didn’t really drop off they maintained a pretty consistent 4-6 percent viewership.

Not surprisingly the highest rated episodes were the one that brought Future Trunks back and the series premiere.

It got 2 movies after it ended and a continued manga run. You don’t give that treatment to a failed series

And yes the “we’ll be back after a short break”’ suggests that was the plan. If they were pulling the plug because of bad ratings they would have just ended it.

[Jord]

You are right, I was skeptical of Daima, with a premise that seemed farfetched (And still feels farfetched to me after it's release) and I didn't believe it at the time. Some leakers were indeed right and that is the trouble with credible inside sources. Sometimes they're right, sometimes they're dead wrong. (Such as multiple people stating DB Super would return, including foreign voice actors)
Getting an actual account of what's the truth in these situations will probably never happen, since companies like TOEI don't talk a lot about cancelled plans and such. They're notoriously secretive.

I don't want to derail the thread and discuss Super or TOEI's inner workings (which can be incredible fascinating) but I did feel it was right to admit my wrong there.

A more interesting twist for this topic is if there is any data on the age of DB fans. How much of them are children, how much of them there adults that grew up with Z? I guess it's tricky to get such data, and it would differ per country perhaps. It would give us a glimpse on how much people got into DB due to Super and Daima and how much is nostalgic fans.

[funrush]

As far as the “inappropriate” humor it just straight up wouldn’t exist if Dragon Ball came out today. There would have been no “getting cancelled” Toriyama would have been creating the manga with the understanding he’s not allowed to do that in a manga aimed at young boys.

Anyways it’s really hard to imagine Dragon Ball coming out today. Not just because of it’s influence on later Shonen Jump title’s shamelessly ripping Goku off or the outdated humor but so much of Dragon Ball is baked into the decade it came out in. I just can’t see Toriyama looking to 70s Jackie Chan flicks as inspiration if he wrote the story in 2025 instead of starting in 1984.

Well without that stuff we're kind of talking about a different manga then. I was approaching the question as "What if the exact manga page for page came out today?" It is kinda fascinating to think about what it would be like with modern alterations and influences.

Sometimes they're right, sometimes they're dead wrong. (Such as multiple people stating DB Super would return, including foreign voice actors)

I think the foreign voice actors have just as much info as we do and they were just expecting that Super would eventually come back because Dragon Ball is this giant franchise. Even Sean Schemmel will straight up admit that he's heard nothing but is excited to do more Super.

In this hypothetical, do the things that Dragon Ball influenced still come out the same and unscathed? If so, I kinda wonder if there'd be people calling the Piccolo Jr arc onwards "Dragon Ball Shippuden" LOL

[dbs fanboy]

Honestly I don't know if Dragon Ball's perverted humour would be received so badly if it aired nowadays.

I mean we have different modern Shonen like Dan Da Dan for example, that have much more explicit stuff and they go without issue.

So while I used to think that dB's perverted humour had aged badly, nowadays I don't think so.

The one thing I would see being different if DB aired today is, it's depiction of Black People, there would be much more backlash nowadays than back then, I think.

[PhantomSaiyan]

He's just trying to derail this into a Dragon Ball Super defense thread; expect a few harassing PMs in your future.

Damn, I didn't know there was a risk of harassment, thanks for the warning, I guess I won't engage further into that conversation lol

[Dbzfan94]

- Goku letting Freeza go 100% because he wants to prove he's the strongest in the universe (proving he's a battle-obsessed maniac)

What kind of critique is this, that's just Goku being Goku, anyone who'd get mad at that probably isn't even aware of what manga they're reading

"What kind of critique is this?" The kind of critique Super gets on a regular basis.

Or are we going to pretend like people online aren't constantly complaining about Super Goku being "dumbed down" and "only caring about fighting"?

Why do you turn every discussion into DBS defending/hating on Z? It’s genuinely confusing, like you’re personally offended that people don’t like Super.

[SupremeKai25]

What kind of critique is this, that's just Goku being Goku, anyone who'd get mad at that probably isn't even aware of what manga they're reading

"What kind of critique is this?" The kind of critique Super gets on a regular basis.

Or are we going to pretend like people online aren't constantly complaining about Super Goku being "dumbed down" and "only caring about fighting"?

Why do you turn every discussion into DBS defending/hating on Z? It’s genuinely confusing, like you’re personally offended that people don’t like Super.

I don't like most of Super. I find all the movies except BoG to be nostalgia slop with pretty animation but very uninspired story, and I also find the Destroyer Tournament saga to be forgettable. So forgettable in fact that Sparking Zero didn't even make a campaign for it.

On average I actually find myself enjoying Z more than Super, although some of that enjoyment is most certainly my childhood nostalgia.

Anyway, I said that the original manga would be popular even if it came out today. SSJ1 is going to be awesome in 2025 as it was 30 years ago.

I simply believe that leak culture and social media fad of constantly posting leaks and snippets of the story without even checking if the translation is right would do more damage than good for Z. I cited the Moro saga as my example, but I didn't even say it had a fantastic story or a story better than Z. I just said that a lot of people were not willing to give it a chance because they saw some leaks about story developments they didn't like and they based their judgement on snippets of the real story, instead of waiting for the full story release before making a proper judgement.

[Adamant]

Yeah, if there's one thing the late 80s/early 90s American Dragonball fandom was known for, it was accurate and full translations of the series in its entirety.

[funrush]

The one thing I would see being different if DB aired today is, it's depiction of Black People, there would be much more backlash nowadays than back then, I think.

See I feel like it would depend on Japan's cultural sensibilities, I don't think they have many black people at all, and another factor is like how kids react to things differently than adults. Like as a kid I definitely didn't think anything sketchy of Mr. Popo, but I think if Dragon Ball was coming out in 2025 and I was introduced to Mr. Popo now as an adult having knowledge of racist caricatures throughout history I'd be like "okay what the fuck is this Toriyama." Pokemon had a similar looking character with Jynx and they turned her from black to purple and barely ever use her anymore, her companion characters Magmar and Electabuzz both got evos in Gen 4 and she got none.

[Jord]

They could always turn him blue again.

I thought that for a while they tried to avoid Popo but Daima brought him back. Perhaps his new horns are a way to make him less humanoid? He always did look different from how other black people are portrayed, such as General Black.

[JulieYBM]

The one thing I would see being different if DB aired today is, it's depiction of Black People, there would be much more backlash nowadays than back then, I think.

See I feel like it would depend on Japan's cultural sensibilities, I don't think they have many black people at all, and another factor is like how kids react to things differently than adults. Like as a kid I definitely didn't think anything sketchy of Mr. Popo, but I think if Dragon Ball was coming out in 2025 and I was introduced to Mr. Popo now as an adult having knowledge of racist caricatures throughout history I'd be like "okay what the fuck is this Toriyama." Pokemon had a similar looking character with Jynx and they turned her from black to purple and barely ever use her anymore, her companion characters Magmar and Electabuzz both got evos in Gen 4 and she got none.

Black people do exist in Japan. Even just putting aside television commercials, black people are actively in media, including series aimed at kids like Super Sentai and Kamen Rider.

[Tian]

Black people do exist in Japan. Even just putting aside television commercials, black people are actively in media, including series aimed at kids like Super Sentai and Kamen Rider.

Yeah, I remember there was this Ghanan actor named Samuel Pop Aning AKA Samy Pop in Abaranger (for folks who doesn't know, the original version of Power Rangers Dino Thunder) who appeared in both episodes 10 and 50.

Also, in anime, I remember I've heard Bernard Ackah as the master of ceremonies from Yu-Gi-Oh 5D's.

I'm sure there might be some more but these are the ones I recall at the moment.

[MasenkoHA]

Black people do exist in Japan. Even just putting aside television commercials, black people are actively in media, including series aimed at kids like Super Sentai and Kamen Rider.

Yeah, I remember there was this Ghanan actor named Samuel Pop Aning AKA Samy Pop in Abaranger (for folks who doesn't know, the original version of Power Rangers Dino Thunder) who appeared in both episodes 10 and 50.

Also, in anime, I remember I've heard Bernard Ackah as the master of ceremonies from Yu-Gi-Oh 5D's.

I'm sure there might be some more but these are the ones I recall at the moment.

Megaranger (series that got adapted as Power Rangers in Space) had a black and causasian employees working at Inet, the company responsible for creating the Megarangers powers and arsenal. Speaking English and everything. Don’t recall them appearing much after the first couple episodes but pretty sure they had sporadic appearances throughout.

That series also started airing around the time GT was wrapping up.

[JulieYBM]

Black people do exist in Japan. Even just putting aside television commercials, black people are actively in media, including series aimed at kids like Super Sentai and Kamen Rider.

Yeah, I remember there was this Ghanan actor named Samuel Pop Aning AKA Samy Pop in Abaranger (for folks who doesn't know, the original version of Power Rangers Dino Thunder) who appeared in both episodes 10 and 50.

Also, in anime, I remember I've heard Bernard Ackah as the master of ceremonies from Yu-Gi-Oh 5D's.

I'm sure there might be some more but these are the ones I recall at the moment.

Ike Nwala was a regular character in Kaitou Sentai Lupinranger VS Keisatsu Sentai Patranger (2018), playing the role of Director Hilltop and Kenneth Duria played Mr. J in Kamen Rider 555 (2003).

This is to say nothing of the adult-aimed Kamen Rider Black Sun featuring two black side characters who got some of the coolest scenes in the series: Nick (Jua) and Oliver Johnson (Moctar).

It's honestly really cool when a project goes out of its way to stretch like that and give a different side of Japanese entertainment and life. If you only ever watch one or two projects from Japan, you wind up having such a limited scope of what kind of art gets produced.