"Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

[Yuji]

Ngl, but I'd be really satisfied of the DB online Lore was adapted to Super in order to end it all.

But you know, build up into them, before Goku and Vegeta have their final battle in space, actually show Goku contemplating his mortality.

That would be fun.

I've also always been a fan of DBO's lore, before Heroes' and Xenoverse's commercialized bastardizations. I know DBO itself is just a consumer product, but you can tell it was a world created with passion and soul by people who care about the series, and not just meant to market toys like Heroes, or using the lore as a backdrop for gameplay like Xenoverse.

[Zephyr]

I think DBO's background lore has some interesting ideas that feel like pretty organic additions to the Dragon World's history, but I also think people exaggerate the extent of this. It is absolutely there primarily as a backdrop for gameplay, specifically that of an MMORPG, providing context for the various races and classes available to the player, as well as the goals they pursue and the enemies they fight.

[Skar]

What I liked about Online was the idea that there weren't any major threats after EoZ and the cast living out the rest of their lives in peace. Throughout the series stronger and stronger villains appeared shortly after each other but it makes sense at some point it would slow down and there would be a longer period of peace. It's how the series began since the Earth was relatively peaceful for a few hundred years until King Piccolo was released.

Something I didn't understand though was when Goku and Vegeta had their final battle after sensing their death was imminent. I assumed it meant they were near the end of their prime but still seems too early since Goku would've around the same as Nappa in the Saiyan saga. Goku is a few years younger than Vegeta and didn't age while in Other World so an even bigger age gap between them. I remember one fan theory that using transformations might shorten their lifespan or age them more than the average Saiyan. Goku achieved SSJ3 so maybe took more of a toll on him and made him "catch up" to Vegeta's age.

It's probably not something they thought about when they wrote the timeline but it would be interesting if there were any long time side effects to using transformations and they only find out much later since Goku and Vegeta were the first full blooded Saiyans to achieve SSJ in 1000 years. When Vegeta talked about Saiyans staying in their prime longer and I think in Super he said it's up until their 80s but that was based on his experience of regular Saiyans who never transformed before.

[Noah]

So no new manga arc this year, right? Can't believe I would miss criticizing Toyotaro lol

This is me being a broken record, but I rewatched Dragon Ball Super #77-89 shortly after Dragon Ball Daima ended and I am once again reminding people: that is how you engage an audience in a story. It's painful that that Tournament of Power had such a bad production, because those scripts are easily Dragon Ball's best and absolutely deserved to be elevated even more by a production crew that wasn't drowing to death.

Might be the third time this crossed my mind, but it’s little talked about much how the preparation episodes to the Tournament of Power were actually better than the tournament itself. I wouldn’t say it’s the best of Dragon Ball, but it definitely had some good moments.

[JulieYBM]

The tournament itself needed more staff and production time, to say nothing of a heavier commitment to all of the character threads being allowed to have weight and meaning for the characters by the end of the story arc, but I do still think the set up is really good and should be looked to as a good example of what Dragon Ball should do more of.

[funrush]

So no new manga arc this year, right? Can't believe I would miss criticizing Toyotaro lol

This is me being a broken record, but I rewatched Dragon Ball Super #77-89 shortly after Dragon Ball Daima ended and I am once again reminding people: that is how you engage an audience in a story. It's painful that that Tournament of Power had such a bad production, because those scripts are easily Dragon Ball's best and absolutely deserved to be elevated even more by a production crew that wasn't drowing to death.

Might be the third time this crossed my mind, but it’s little talked about much how the preparation episodes to the Tournament of Power were actually better than the tournament itself. I wouldn’t say it’s the best of Dragon Ball, but it definitely had some good moments.

We're unsure if/when the manga could even come back. Toyotaro's starting his own manga and I think the franchise had some sort of legal disputes going on not too long ago?

What did you like about the preparation episodes? Because when they were coming out I really did not like them. I remember being pretty annoyed at the Tien/Roshi one and it felt like they were just stalling after a while. I liked the Android 17 one though as well as the return of Freeza. The ones when they bring Freeza back were crazy.

[PhantomSaiyan]

We're unsure if/when the manga could even come back. Toyotaro's starting his own manga and I think the franchise had some sort of legal disputes going on not too long ago?

The legal dispute is still ongoing

[Xeogran]

Toyotaro's starting his own manga

I don't think so, that draft was too bad to be a real manga. And nothing about it has been said ever since the Japan Expo in Paris.

[PhantomSaiyan]

I don't think so, that draft was too bad to be a real manga. And nothing about it has been said ever since the Japan Expo in Paris.

so it's not happening just because you think it looks bad?

[jjbgood]

Wasn't it announced as a "one shot" from the beginning? These "starts his own manga" comments are just an exaggeration, aren't they?

[FlpShimizu]

I don't think so, that draft was too bad to be a real manga. And nothing about it has been said ever since the Japan Expo in Paris.

so it's not happening just because you think it looks bad?

People often confuse their wishes with reality, even more so when it's something they don't like.

[VegettoEX]

Toyotaro's "Lost Samurai" draft being presented on stage in front of a live audience and with live critique from Kazuhiko Torishima at Japan Expo was very clearly a stunt in support of Torishima's "Ultimate Manga Techniques" book coming up on its official French translation and release. It was a live demonstration of Torishima's thought processes and such, which readers can learn more about in the book. You can learn more about the panel and how it all went down and came across, from someone who was actually there, on Episode 526 of our podcast.

It has no relevance to or effect on the ongoing production (or lack thereof) of the Dragon Ball Super manga.

(Whether or not "Lost Samurai" was ever a legitimate draft that Toyotaro sketched out for actually pitching to Shueisha, or something made explicitly just for this panel, isn't exactly known... but it's also not particularly relevant in the long run.)

[Yuji]

As it turns out, Moro was more of Toyotaro's project with Granolah having more Toriyama supervision and input once more. That seems contrary to what we had assumed logistically, with one expecting lesser Toriyama supervision as time goes on, not more, alongside the released Toriyama corrections for the UI transformation sequence, and Granolah and Heatas being Toyotaro's designs - but it makes sense when you dissect the plot beats and how they represent each writers' focus and sensibility.

[JulieYBM]

As it turns out, Moro was more of Toyotaro's project with Granolah having more Toriyama supervision and input once more. That seems contrary to what we had assumed logistically, with one expecting lesser Toriyama supervision as time goes on, not more, alongside the released Toriyama corrections for the UI transformation sequence, and Granolah and Heatas being Toyotaro's designs - but it makes sense when you dissect the plot beats and how they represent each writers' focus and sensibility.

Yeah, I'm not surprised. The Granola arc seems like a Toriyama story with the way there's a peak into Bardock's past and a Namekian who creates Dragon Balls and only needs two to summon a dragon.

Not to mention that ending lol

[Mr Baggins]

Here is the source.

In sum: Toyotaro directly confirms he wrote the Moro arc himself, while Toriyama did part of the plot for the Granolah arc (in other words, not a complete outline) and then Toyotaro built upon it for a full manga story.

Pretty sure this is what most of us already gleaned from some prior interviews with Uchida. Here, Toyotaro also draws a distinction between Toriyama's arcs that were concurrent with the anime and the other two arcs that came after where he had more creative control over the story beats.

Not surprising at all. Confirmation's always good, though.

[LightBing]

Yeah, I'm not surprised. The Granola arc seems like a Toriyama story with the way there's a peak into Bardock's past and a Namekian who creates Dragon Balls and only needs two to summon a dragon.

Not to mention that ending lol

Bardock's inclusion seems 100% Toyotarõ. I don't think Toriyama ever wrote a flashback in Dragon Ball, with the exception of Trunks story.
Toyotarõ also included Vegetto back then, he likes to reintroduce concepts.

I'm assuming the start of the story is mostly Toriyama and Toyotarõ took over, specially since the ending is similar in terms of pace between Granola and Moro arc.

[JulieYBM]

Yeah, I'm not surprised. The Granola arc seems like a Toriyama story with the way there's a peak into Bardock's past and a Namekian who creates Dragon Balls and only needs two to summon a dragon.

Not to mention that ending lol

Bardock's inclusion seems 100% Toyotarõ. I don't think Toriyama ever wrote a flashback in Dragon Ball, with the exception of Trunks story.
Toyotarõ also included Vegetto back then, he likes to reintroduce concepts.

I'm assuming the start of the story is mostly Toriyama and Toyotarõ took over, specially since the ending is similar in terms of pace between Granola and Moro arc.

The dive into Bardock doesn't read to me like something that Toyotaro would attempt without express permission and guidance from Toriyama. With the Moro arc, Toyotaro was basically just writing his own characters.

[Mr Baggins]

Bardock's inclusion and plotline was from Toyotaro, not Toriyama (although Toriyama obviously approved it).

Which, again, is not surprising in the slightest for anyone that read the arc. You can see glimpses of Toriyama's writing here and there, but it's pretty clear he wasn't all that heavily involved.

[Bardock God of Time]

With the anime returning, the big question is if the manga will continue as well.

[The Dark Knight]

With the anime returning, the big question is if the manga will continue as well.

Of course it will, as the legal issues holding the anime back were also impacting the manga. Now it's only a matter of when the announcement will be made. I expect either comic-con in July, or Jump Festa in December.