Unpopular DB opinions

[GhostEmperorX]

I probably would've loved it if, instead of Goku ex deus machining it, it was Geets who came to save the day chiming in on the final blast. Vegeta was in debt with Gohan after he saved him vs Cell.
It would've worked with the whole Goten and Trunks wishing their dad came to save them, instead of somehow bringing somebody back to life without even summoning Shenron, it was actually the alive father that decided to help his son.

Can't let logic get in the way of a good rehash opportunity now can we?

With how the movie was told, it seems he is still shit-scared of Broly and more than willing to let his son die.

And Koyama probably wouldn't have had it any other way, being the hack that he was when it came to this particular character around this time.

Even if it was as brief as they believing at first it was Goku, due to being extremely battered and hallucinating, and then coming back to their senses, and seeing Geets say we're even now.

Ironically, this is exactly what was done when they faked Piccolo's appearance in Movie 10 as a prelude to completely cutting him out of the rest of the films in that era.

[JulieYBM]

Hack is the awfully strange language to use when you consider the context of 1) He's low on time to write a movie and 2) He isn't in charge of these things, he's a freelancer brought on to write a script for a producer who ultimately has more control than him.

[MasenkoHA]

I probably would've loved it if, instead of Goku ex deus machining it, it was Geets who came to save the day chiming in on the final blast. Vegeta was in debt with Gohan after he saved him vs Cell.
It would've worked with the whole Goten and Trunks wishing their dad came to save them, instead of somehow bringing somebody back to life without even summoning Shenron, it was actually the alive father that decided to help his son.

Can't let logic get in the way of a good rehash opportunity now can we?

With how the movie was told, it seems he is still shit-scared of Broly and more than willing to let his son die.

And Koyama probably wouldn't have had it any other way, being the hack that he was when it came to this particular character around this time.

Even if it was as brief as they believing at first it was Goku, due to being extremely battered and hallucinating, and then coming back to their senses, and seeing Geets say we're even now.

Ironically, this is exactly what was done when they faked Piccolo's appearance in Movie 10 as a prelude to completely cutting him out of the rest of the films in that era.

What’s funny is as infamous as Toriyama was for dropping and diminishing characters when he lost interest he kept Piccolo pretty relevant to the very end. At least the most prominent character after the Saiyans 5. But the movies just straight up drop him after movie 9. I guess since Koyama had put Piccolo in the box of “ Gohan’s protector” he didn’t see a point in the character once Gohan was a teenager, but at least Toriyama transferred him from Gohan’s honorary uncle to Goten and Trunks agitated sensei and babysitter.

[Michelle91]

I think the performances for the HG dub isn't too bad. I think the odd name choices did hurt it from being a possible good or even dub.

[GhostEmperorX]

I mean, he not only imported the same formula he used for the movies of the previous Toei series he worked on, but also wrote himself into a corner with a character that "destroyed the South Galaxy" which was at risk of breaking said formula. If that doesn't entail the least bit of hackery, what does?
(Although to be fair, I may have to put Morishita on the chopping block as well here... he was also the producer for that other series prior to Torishima tapping him for DB.)

What’s funny is as infamous as Toriyama was for dropping and diminishing characters when he lost interest he kept Piccolo pretty relevant to the very end. At least the most prominent character after the Saiyans 5. But the movies just straight up drop him after movie 9. I guess since Koyama had put Piccolo in the box of “ Gohan’s protector” he didn’t see a point in the character once Gohan was a teenager, but at least Toriyama transferred him from Gohan’s honorary uncle to Goten and Trunks agitated sensei and babysitter.

He was very much the Ikki to Gohan's Shun as far as Koyama was concerned. Meanwhile, on the flip side, while Toriyama had Videl bow out after the tournament, the movies gave her action scenes of some kind whenever she appeared.

[JulieYBM]

I mean, he not only imported the same formula he used for the movies of the previous Toei series he worked on, but also wrote himself into a corner with a character that "destroyed the South Galaxy" which was at risk of breaking said formula. If that doesn't entail the least bit of hackery, what does?
(Although to be fair, I may have to put Morishita on the chopping block as well here... he was also the producer for that other series prior to Torishima tapping him for DB.)

What’s funny is as infamous as Toriyama was for dropping and diminishing characters when he lost interest he kept Piccolo pretty relevant to the very end. At least the most prominent character after the Saiyans 5. But the movies just straight up drop him after movie 9. I guess since Koyama had put Piccolo in the box of “ Gohan’s protector” he didn’t see a point in the character once Gohan was a teenager, but at least Toriyama transferred him from Gohan’s honorary uncle to Goten and Trunks agitated sensei and babysitter.

He was very much the Ikki to Gohan's Shun as far as Koyama was concerned. Meanwhile, on the flip side, while Toriyama had Videl bow out after the tournament, the movies gave her action scenes of some kind whenever she appeared.

I mean, he's clearly overworked. Anyone would be when they're writing multiple episodes and movies all under strict guidelines each year. Heck, a formula isn't even necessarily a bad thing to have.

[GhostEmperorX]

I mean, he's clearly overworked. Anyone would be when they're writing multiple episodes and movies all under strict guidelines each year. Heck, a formula isn't even necessarily a bad thing to have.

Hmm... not really sure the two are mutually exclusive. As another example with producers shows, the Z "Hit Song Collections" and the team that produced them (MONOLITH) were set up by a Nippon Columbia producer. The team was under an even tighter crunch than the movies to put out albums within the same time period, and in the final volume from 1993, they left a message on the last page saying that it would be the last one they would work on.
A rather familiar arranger was hard at work all throughout, and it seems like he felt that he needed to resort to pilfering other works to meet the schedules.

All to say that hackery can at times become a way to deal with overwork.

[WittyUsername]

Maybe it’s because I’ve never been a hardcore Vegeta fan, but I don’t see the problem with how Vegeta is written in Movie 8. Vegeta at that point in the series was still written as an arrogant wildcard whose own sense of pride had recently screwed everyone over when it came to Cell, so having him spend much of the first Broly movie cowering in fear and ultimately being forced to give his ki to his hated rival seems pretty fitting to me.

Besides, it’s not like there’s no precedent in the manga for Vegeta to be paralyzed with fear.

[Michelle91]

I'm glad that we never got a "canon" version of Coola because I feel like they would just rehash DBZ Movie 5 all over again. There's nothing else that could be done that hasn't already been done.

[JulieYBM]

Why not do Coola, but better? Take the rules of those eighth and nineth films and break them? Coola's not like Freeza, but maybe that doesn't necessarily mean that he wants to kill Gokuu for revenge or whatever. Maybe he comes into conflict with Gokuu for other reasons? Perhaps—if set after the Black Freeza appearance—Coola wants something and can only achieve it by fighting Gokuu? Maybe he only wants to fight Gokuu because he wants to test him to see if he's strong enough to help him topple Freeza? Why is Coola in conflict with Freeza, then? Because Coola wants peace for the universe? Who knows! One can write any story they like!

[MasenkoHA]

I think the performances for the HG dub isn't too bad. I think the odd name choices did hurt it from being a possible good or even dub.

The performances were fine. The biggest problems with the five episodes we got were the scripts, which were just a mess, and the absolute insane censorship.

[Dragon Ball Ireland]

I think the performances for the HG dub isn't too bad. I think the odd name choices did hurt it from being a possible good or even dub.

The performances were fine. The biggest problems with the five episodes we got were the scripts, which were just a mess, and the absolute insane censorship.

I don't think the performances in the Harmony Gold being decent or even good is that unpopular. I've heard a lot of fans say Barbara Goodson was their favourite English kid Goku.

It was very clearly an 80s kids TV dub though, and if we were to rate it as a faithful representation of the original Japanese version it wouldn't hold up by today's standards for the reasons you stated.

[Noah]

I'm feeling pretty burnt out on Dragon Ball.

I've been re-watching the series in Japanese for the first time using Seed of Might's release, and it's been an amazing experience so far. I've never seen it in Japanese, so between that and SOM's amazing video quality, it feels like watching a completely new show.

Watching the 508 episodes from original series (including Movies, TV Specials and OVAs) in japanese was something I’ve always wanted to do since I first saw the trailer for Sparking Neo back in 2006, and I can honestly say it’s an experience I’d recommend to any DB fan. I wouldn’t say it gets to the point where it feels like a completely different show because here in Brazil, despite the dubbing mistakes (from Mexican dub), the soundtrack was still the same as the original version. Yu-Gi-Oh, though, actually felt like a different anime when I watched it in Japanese, 'thanks' to 4Kids

Would it be unpopular to say that I don’t see the need for a Dragon Ball anime remake?

Kinda, I would say yes based on my own opinion because I think the original DB deserves a remake. Even though I consider it a good anime (including its fillers), it’s sadly pretty dated now. And like people used to say back in the day, it would be great for both old and new fans to experience the stories from when Goku was naturally a kid (looking at you, GT and Daima)

Masako Nozawa as Bardock is my least favorite role from her. I almost wish they had a different actor for the role.

One interesting thing about the brazilian dub of DBZ is that they got Raditz’s dub actor to dub Bardock. I thought that was a nice choice, considering Bardock looks like Goku (his son) and sounds like Raditz (his other son). Tullece also has a different voice here, and the only character who has the same voice as Goku’s dub actor is Black (for obvious reasons).

[Vhanos]

Yu-Gi-Oh, though, actually felt like a different anime when I watched it in Japanese, 'thanks' to 4Kids

I've watched Yugioh in Japanese. It is a different experience. You can appreciate it more when there isn't music going on all the time like in the dub.

[Majin Buu]

I've watched Yugioh in Japanese. It is a different experience. You can appreciate it more when there isn't music going on all the time like in the dub.

I've said this many times in the past, but that right there has always been one of my main problems with Funi's Z dub.

In additional to replacing Kikuchi's score, that replacement score rarely ever shuts up (the only times I can think of is when Vegeta dies in the Namek arc and a brief moment when Satan throws #16's head at Gohan in the Cell arc (for some reason)). The drama just hits better when there isn't music constantly running in the background.

[GhostEmperorX]

I've said this many times in the past, but that right there has always been one of my main problems with Funi's Z dub.

In additional to replacing Kikuchi's score, that replacement score rarely ever shuts up (the only times I can think of is when Vegeta dies in the Namek arc and a brief moment when Satan throws #16's head at Gohan in the Cell arc (for some reason)). The drama just hits better when there isn't music constantly running in the background.

Also, the original direction of Z was one where a special emphasis was placed on the visuals and the sound effects, and every part of the design (including the tracks mainly being short in their length) indicated that the staff didn't feel the need to carry the series with BGM and end up overwhelming said elements (which was a known concern of the composer as well, leading to his holding back on the scale of the compositions).

Even the movies had numerous moments where they just let those stand on their own.

[MasenkoHA]

I've watched Yugioh in Japanese. It is a different experience. You can appreciate it more when there isn't music going on all the time like in the dub.

I've said this many times in the past, but that right there has always been one of my main problems with Funi's Z dub.

In additional to replacing Kikuchi's score, that replacement score rarely ever shuts up (the only times I can think of is when Vegeta dies in the Namek arc and a brief moment when Satan throws #16's head at Gohan in the Cell arc (for some reason)). The drama just hits better when there isn't music constantly running in the background.

I think it’s telling even people who swear by the Mike Smith and Company score it’s pretty much exclusively the character pieces like Vegeta’s Hells Bells and Gohan’s Anger Theme and Perfect Cell’s Theme that they are talking about. And perhaps the title card music. You’re probably never gonna hear a fan of that score praises the fax machine breaking down noises that makes up 20-60 percent of the American soundtrack in a given episode or the “Hey you stupid child! The characters said a joke! Here’s some silly music because you’re stupid and we need you to know a character said a funny!” music stings.

I feel like if the American score had been stripped down to just 20-30 pieces of music and didn’t have a requirement to Mickey Mouse the animation it would have been a more tolerable score.

And for all the Kai dub and Japanese dub with Team Faulconer music fanedits, I’m surprised none of the fans have attempted that. At least not to my knowledge.

[GhostEmperorX]

You’re probably never gonna hear a fan of that score praises the fax machine breaking down noises that makes up 20-60 percent of the American soundtrack in a given episode or the “Hey you stupid child! The characters said a joke! Here’s some silly music because you’re stupid and we need you to know a character said a funny!” music stings.

Indeed, no one will ever defend the likes of episode 200 for example, the ratio on the 2 unreleased score rip uploads is a good indicator of that.
Easily the most mid usage of the whole score that has everything described here.

[WittyUsername]

I've watched Yugioh in Japanese. It is a different experience. You can appreciate it more when there isn't music going on all the time like in the dub.

I've said this many times in the past, but that right there has always been one of my main problems with Funi's Z dub.

In additional to replacing Kikuchi's score, that replacement score rarely ever shuts up (the only times I can think of is when Vegeta dies in the Namek arc and a brief moment when Satan throws #16's head at Gohan in the Cell arc (for some reason)). The drama just hits better when there isn't music constantly running in the background.

I think it’s telling even people who swear by the Mike Smith and Company score it’s pretty much exclusively the character pieces like Vegeta’s Hells Bells and Gohan’s Anger Theme and Perfect Cell’s Theme that they are talking about. And perhaps the title card music. You’re probably never gonna hear a fan of that score praises the fax machine breaking down noises that makes up 20-60 percent of the American soundtrack in a given episode or the “Hey you stupid child! The characters said a joke! Here’s some silly music because you’re stupid and we need you to know a character said a funny!” music stings.

I feel like if the American score had been stripped down to just 20-30 pieces of music and didn’t have a requirement to Mickey Mouse the animation it would have been a more tolerable score.

And for all the Kai dub and Japanese dub with Team Faulconer music fanedits, I’m surprised none of the fans have attempted that. At least not to my knowledge.

I’d say that Time Chamber, Ginyu Transformation, and the Super Saiyan 3 theme are pretty good.

[MasenkoHA]

I've said this many times in the past, but that right there has always been one of my main problems with Funi's Z dub.

In additional to replacing Kikuchi's score, that replacement score rarely ever shuts up (the only times I can think of is when Vegeta dies in the Namek arc and a brief moment when Satan throws #16's head at Gohan in the Cell arc (for some reason)). The drama just hits better when there isn't music constantly running in the background.

I think it’s telling even people who swear by the Mike Smith and Company score it’s pretty much exclusively the character pieces like Vegeta’s Hells Bells and Gohan’s Anger Theme and Perfect Cell’s Theme that they are talking about. And perhaps the title card music. You’re probably never gonna hear a fan of that score praises the fax machine breaking down noises that makes up 20-60 percent of the American soundtrack in a given episode or the “Hey you stupid child! The characters said a joke! Here’s some silly music because you’re stupid and we need you to know a character said a funny!” music stings.

I feel like if the American score had been stripped down to just 20-30 pieces of music and didn’t have a requirement to Mickey Mouse the animation it would have been a more tolerable score.

And for all the Kai dub and Japanese dub with Team Faulconer music fanedits, I’m surprised none of the fans have attempted that. At least not to my knowledge.

I’d say that Time Chamber, Ginyu Transformation, and the Super Saiyan 3 theme are pretty good.

I probably should have said leimotifs or non-filler music something because I agree with Super Saiyan 3 and Ginyu Transforms (can’t remember Time Chamber for the life of me).


There’s definitely a notable difference between the music that’s there because Team Faulconer had something to say and the music that’s there because of Barry Watson’s demands for wall to wall music.