What did you think of the final fights with Gomah?

Discussion specifically regarding the "Dragon Ball Daima" TV series premiering October 2024, including individual threads for each episode.
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What did you think of the final fights with Gomah?

Post by Peach » Fri Oct 17, 2025 7:33 pm

I adored all those fights at the end of the series with all the various characters rushing Gomah.

What impressed me was we never really see long fights like that with minimal talking in this franchise like this. It was focused fighting without the fighters babbling between attacks. It had few cutaways and extremely limited commentary from observers. Gomah himself extremely difficult for everyone too, which went a long way in emphasizing how strong he was. I can't remember the last time we've seen something like this in this franchise. The Tournament of Power was constantly cutting to stands or Zeno, having fighters talk and quip between attacks. Dragon Ball Super in general consistently had characters talking between blows. The rushing of Goma felt like a long martial arts battle.
Last edited by Peach on Fri Oct 17, 2025 8:22 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: What did you think of the final fights with Gomah?

Post by JulieYBM » Fri Oct 17, 2025 7:48 pm

Gomah didn't have enough of an arc to really be excited over these fights. The lack of development for the characters during the fight and connection with Gomah really let down the amazing work that the storyboard artists, episode directors and animators were turning in.
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Re: What did you think of the final fights with Gomah?

Post by Vegard Aune » Sat Oct 18, 2025 2:34 am

Gomah was by far the most boring option for the final villain. Sure, the fight was a non-stop feast for the eye, but Gomah was just such a nothing character, and the threat he posed pretty much entirely came down to "He hits really hard and he can't die." It should not have gone on for as long as it did, much as I loved the way the fight concluded.
And yes, I know in the grand scheme of Dragon Ball, a four episode fight is nothing, but in this case that's a four episode fight to cap off a twenty episode show where every other confrontation was at most two episodes with other things happening at the same time.

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Re: What did you think of the final fights with Gomah?

Post by Zephyr » Sat Oct 18, 2025 3:37 pm

Aside from the visuals, this story had one of the sloppiest Dragon Ball climaxes I've ever seen. Where GT had "good ideas, bad execution", Daima might have "it looked really nice, but...."

The Fights:
Gomah making an arena to test his strength was a cool little moment, but after that he didn't really have any chemistry as a martial artist with anyone. I thought it was strange to see Goku opt to gang up on Gomah first, rather than having that be a last resort (or at least the second resort). Also, it felt like Goku easily could have just landed a hit on the back of Gomah's head during all the shit he was doing, so having Piccolo as a factor in that at all felt unnecessary.

The Transformations:
These fights featured some of the narratively-weakest mid-fight transformations in the entire series. Neva somehow just unlocking Super Saiyan 4 for Goku was lame (and in Lore Dump: The Series, not getting any context for what just happened at the time felt egregious), everyone being shocked to see Super Saiyan 3 Vegeta (again) was weird, and everyone being shocked to see Super Saiyan 4 Goku (again) was also weird. Doo "going Super Saiyan 3" was very funny, though.

The Wish:
The wish to turn everyone back into adults featured the beginning and end of Glorio and Arinsu's way-too-late and way-too-brief soap opera over what to use the DBs for. Yeah DB's subtle with this sort of stuff, but this went beyond subtle into "basically nothing" territory. I'm not even saying to punch up the melodrama, just spread it out a bit more, structurally. Have us learn Glorio's true motives earlier on, and have the twist reveal after the dragon is summoned be what his choice was.

---

I can pick nits about any DB climax in this way (Namek, Cell, and Boo in particular), but most of the time these criticisms never seriously affect my enjoyment and appreciation of the larger thing that the story is aiming to do.

During Namek's climax, Kaio somehow not understanding that Goku very much is a reckless bastard doesn't really undercut the interpersonal drama of martial egos playing out between Goku and Freeza. During Cell's climax, Goku giving up and giving a really strange excuse to stay dead don't really undercut Goku's Super Saiyan "school" being proven superior to Vegeta's vicariously through Gohan. During Boo's climax, Gohan being abruptly sidelined with no reflection on that fact doesn't really undercut the interpersonal drama of martial egos playing out between Goku and Vegeta.

With Daima? I'm not sure what sort of stuff there is to appreciate that my critique "doesn't really undercut". Goku ending demon apartheid? Glorio finding a new family? Like, that's cool I guess, but doesn't really have anything to do with Goku or his rivals' journeys as martial artists. And, no, of course, even if DB is a story about getting stronger and fighting people, an individual standalone DB story is allowed to be about stuff besides that. But it is in the context of that stuff that DB fights tend to contain valuable narrative content. So when we get a big DB fight at the end, and it doesn't have any of the narrative substance that tends to keep big fights from being mere spectacle, that's gonna hit poorly.

But, again, it did look nice.

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Re: What did you think of the final fights with Gomah?

Post by Mr Baggins » Sun Oct 19, 2025 2:10 am

Re: Gomah being called a "nothing character":

Where Gomah stands out as an antagonist obviously isn't his personality in a vacuum. If that's how people wish to distill him, anyone can very pointedly make similar criticisms of Piccolo Daimao, Frieza, Cell, Super Buu, etc., all of whom are straightforwardly evil. But nobody would (or should, if I'm feeling less charitable towards the fandom writ large) analyze those characters bereft of their narrative significance.

Rather, Gomah is a fitting villain because of what he embodies thematically. As the latest in a long line of greedy despots, he represents the corrupt system of the Great Demon Realm as a whole. Not exactly all that much backstory or motivational pathos to him, but that's the point: Gomah is privilege incarnate. He spent his life in service to a king that continually subjugated his people, and after taking the seat of power for himself, maintained the status quo and actually made shit worse for them. Toriyama wasn't even subtle here – everything from this pipsqueak's hilariously short temper to his arrogance and cowardice even down to his character design as a little man who thinks he's big (and literally turns big) is entirely in service to this. I can see people drawing comparisons to Frieza in the original series as well, though I'd say Frieza's focal point there was his extreme prejudice and paranoia over the Saiyans more than his authoritarian rule, at least to the same extent as portrayed in Daima.

Put all of that on a throne and problems are guaranteed to ensue. As I've said elsewhere, Gomah's actions throughout the show constantly set him up for failure. He aims to weaken Goku et al by turning them into kids, but his wish is shortsighted and ironically leads Goku et al right to him. He shuts down Sir Warp to make traversal through the demon worlds impossible, but that leads Neva to undo the seal of the main pathway that limited traversal to begin with. To get even more literal, his third eye form has him accidentally destroying parts of his own palace in the climax. The sort of unwitting sabotage we see with Gomah is portrayed as a vicious cycle when the show draws parallels to Abura and Dabura making very similar mistakes. All systems governed by self-serving rulers are inherently self-defeating.

Hence all the worldbuilding throughout Daima that elucidates the evils of the system and lends to payoffs like Kuu being the first decent king in kami knows how many millenia. Hence Goku piercing Gomah with that big ass Kamehameha, but more importantly piercing through the entire realm; breaking its barriers and quite literally freeing the Third Demon World of its harsh atmospheric conditions.

Daima is a story of autocracy and its societal consequences and ultimate tendency to collapse on itself, something immediately apparent to anyone with enough media literacy to understand metaphor, storytelling, and Toriyama's approach to either (see: Frieza being based on real estate speculators). You know you have a pretty good villain when much of the audience feels a sense of catharsis and satisfaction after Marba locks his obnoxious ass in magic jail for 99 years.

"When a clown moves into a palace, he doesn't become a king. The palace instead becomes a circus."

tl;dr: Gomah is Donald Trump.

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Oh yeah, the actual fights themselves were pretty great too.

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Re: What did you think of the final fights with Gomah?

Post by LoganForkHands73 » Sun Oct 19, 2025 5:23 pm

There were some things I really liked, and some I thought could've been done much better. I'll get the bad out of the way first, because I need to explain the negatives to contextualise the parts I enjoyed.

I was disappointed that Gomah's hammy personality all but disappeared the moment he hulked out with the Tertian Oculus, outside of a few fun moments (e.g. smugly shadow-boxing Vegeta as a taunt). Ideally, I would have liked to have seen his capabilities before he powered up, because the promise that this petulant imp being genuinely quite fearsome was a decent hook. Some more magical techniques would have also been nice. Villains with powerful healing factors was already a tired gimmick the last 50 times it's been wheeled out.

It's also a shame that on an individual level, he lacked an entertaining dynamic with any of the heroes. He really does just feel like a featureless obstacle for Vegeta and Goku to punch around. The stakes also feel deflated. Usually, there's a really clear sense of the terrible consequences if the heroes fail to defeat a given threat. Pure Buu would have continued his indiscriminate rampage across the cosmos. Cell would have sadistically murdered every last human before expanding his reign of terror to other planets.

With Gomah, there's no sense of urgency or desperation. If he wins, he'll presumably kill all the heroes and continue his inept, unpopular rule over the Demon Realm, with a severely depleted army. Obviously the latter is not a great result for the demon populace, especially with that life energy tax. But on the point of killing the heroes, Gomah doesn't seem to be in a great rush to do so, considering the leisurely pace of the fight and the non-combatants casually spectating. After Glorio wishes the outsiders back to their normal heights, Gomah is forced on the backfoot for the rest of his time onscreen. If Goku can't finish Gomah, is Gomah even strong enough to kill him? And would the others really have no chance of escaping? If they were forced to retreat, Gomah seems too lazy and complacent to actively hunt them down once they're no longer a threat.

Onto the good stuff...

Seeing everyone, including Tamagami Number One, team up against Gomah was the kind of fist-pump moment you love to see in Dragon Ball. Almost everyone had moments to shine, which is rare for a multi-man brawl in this franchise. Majin Kuu being the ultimate victor and immediately proving himself as a competent, judicious ruler (though making Duu of all people a high-ranking minister? Nepotism much?), after everyone dismissed him as a screw-up, was sheer perfection.

The tiered geography of the Demon Realm is, much like the segregated train cars in Snowpiercer, a pretty blatant allegory for real life class systems in a capitalist (or in the Demon Realm's case, feudalistic) society. Echoing Baggins' point, Goku's Kamehameha piercing Gomah and destroying the arbitrary boundaries between all the worlds is one of the most memorable pieces of imagery from Daima. It's the one moment that justifies this whole battle and makes you realise why the Dragon Team are really here, putting their lives on the line for this foreign realm. This shitty authoritarian status quo must be defeated.

Some fans hate the handling of the new Super Saiyan transformations, but I'm at worst indifferent to them. Adult Vegeta's first round against Gomah establishes that the Saiyans are vastly more powerful as adults than they were as de-aged children, so seeing a grown-up Super Saiyan 3 in action would be shocking to the likes of Panzy and Kadan. Moreover, I feel that everything we needed to understand about Super Saiyan 4 was visually communicated to us clearly enough; people read too much into Goku and Vegeta's conversation at the end. Sure, getting multiple aura-farming transformation scenes for the same forms is a bit redundant to us as viewers, but in-universe, I can make some sense of it.

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Re: What did you think of the final fights with Gomah?

Post by Makaioshin » Sun Oct 19, 2025 7:26 pm

A nice animation showcase without much substance. And that is completely by design. Gomah, similar to DBS Broly and Cell Max, has very few lines in the actual fight. Those two were berserk but Gomah they just outright stopped giving him lines at a certain point. It cuts to the chase -- the villain is simply there get taken down by the new form and any personal conflict just gets in the way.

Gomah even had his infinite regeneration and offered minimal pushback so they could fit in showcases for three new forms between SSJ4 Goku (Mini), SSJ3 Vegeta, and SSJ4 Goku.

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Re: What did you think of the final fights with Gomah?

Post by Koitsukai » Mon Oct 20, 2025 9:08 am

I never knew Gomah (in battle), only what the Third Eye could do and it bored me pretty quickly, not just because I’ve seen the relentless healing factor many, many, way too many times in this franchise. I’ve also seen it in much more entertaining ways instead of punch-punch, heal, punch-punch, heal while different guys were taking turns. It looked beautiful, though.

I really wanted to see what Gomah was capable of because he was supposed to be a big deal in terms of magic. Oh, well, at least we got SS4 out of Neva’s ass.

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Re: What did you think of the final fights with Gomah?

Post by Mr Baggins » Mon Oct 20, 2025 3:49 pm

I guess I should clarify what I thought of all the fighting.

It was fine. Gomah's sequence of fights is interspersed with enough interesting and/or funny and/or substantive interactions (be they outside of the fighting on the sidelines or within it) that I never trailed off mentally or found any of these episodes boring. That, and the action is deadlock-heavy as hell for Dragon Ball. It's refreshing to see both sides pulling out all the stops with the Demon Realm's political future on the line, and I'm not sure there were any deeper conversations left to be had at that point.

Of course, it feeling like a desperate struggle was most likely made possible specifically because of the lack of cutaways OP mentioned. Seems like people wanted some ideological prattling between the opposing sides or something, but the show had been meticulously building the reasons for this conflict from day one, and I think it'd also clearly diminish what they were going for directorially. Not every battle needs "chemistry" to say something, nor was that always the case even in the original series.

If I'm to compare the climaxes for all of Toriyama's revival projects, I'd say this is leagues better than utterly pointless dreck like Cell Max, which was pandering nonsense from start to finish that added nothing to the movie except pretty stupidly used callbacks to a superior story arc – a rare miss on Toriyama's part, though sadly one of several in Super Hero. I'll maintain that Battle of Gods and Broly had the best climax character dynamics of all, however. You can't really go wrong with those two films.

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Re: What did you think of the final fights with Gomah?

Post by LoganForkHands73 » Mon Oct 20, 2025 4:33 pm

Mr Baggins wrote: Mon Oct 20, 2025 3:49 pm Of course, it feeling like a desperate struggle was most likely made possible specifically because of the lack of cutaways OP mentioned. Seems like people wanted some ideological prattling between the opposing sides or something, but the show had been meticulously building the reasons for this conflict from day one, and I think it'd also clearly diminish what they were going for directorially.
For my part, I wasn't expecting an ideological struggle, but Gomah was set up as a funny, entertaining character with a great voice actor, and I was sad that he was reduced to endlessly growling "MADA MADA DA!" each time he got whooped. At least he kept the smug facial expressions.
Not every battle needs "chemistry" to say something, nor was that always the case even in the original series.
This is a pretty wild take to me. I really struggle to think of a single final boss in the original series that doesn't offer some chemistry or at least an interesting dynamic with the heroes. It was practically Toriyama's forte that separated his work from the imitators.

It was impressive how he managed this even for enemies that couldn't speak. Pure Buu has the most Doomsday motivations ever and he was introduced at the apex of a decade-long burnout, and he still somehow had excellent chemistry with Goku, Vegeta and Satan. He was a sadistic little tormenter who nonetheless enjoyed prey that could punch back. You mention Super Broly, he barely says a word, yet his interesting dynamic with his Saiyan rivals carried that film's whole climax.

I appreciate what they were going for, but I think the broader political allegory driving the conflict against Gomah wasn't quite enough to carry it. Gomah himself needed to be more compelling.
If I'm to compare the climaxes for all of Toriyama's revival projects, I'd say this is leagues better than utterly pointless dreck like Cell Max, which was pandering nonsense from start to finish that added nothing to the movie except pretty stupidly used callbacks to a superior story arc – a rare miss on Toriyama's part, though sadly one of several in Super Hero. I'll maintain that Battle of Gods and Broly had the best climax character dynamics of all, however. You can't really go wrong with those two films.
Yeah, the more I look back on Super Hero, the more it feels like a pointless, glorified B-plot without an A-plot. The conflict against the Gammas petered out so badly that they had to introduce Cell Max just so the movie wouldn't prematurely end 30 minutes in.

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Re: What did you think of the final fights with Gomah?

Post by JulieYBM » Mon Oct 20, 2025 4:49 pm

LoganForkHands73 wrote: Mon Oct 20, 2025 4:33 pm
Mr Baggins wrote: Mon Oct 20, 2025 3:49 pm Of course, it feeling like a desperate struggle was most likely made possible specifically because of the lack of cutaways OP mentioned. Seems like people wanted some ideological prattling between the opposing sides or something, but the show had been meticulously building the reasons for this conflict from day one, and I think it'd also clearly diminish what they were going for directorially.
For my part, I wasn't expecting an ideological struggle, but Gomah was set up as a funny, entertaining character with a great voice actor, and I was sad that he was reduced to endlessly growling "MADA MADA DA!" each time he got whooped. At least he kept the smug facial expressions.
Not every battle needs "chemistry" to say something, nor was that always the case even in the original series.
This is a pretty wild take to me. I really struggle to think of a single final boss in the original series that doesn't offer some chemistry or at least an interesting dynamic with the heroes. It was practically Toriyama's forte that separated his work from the imitators.

It was impressive how he managed this even for enemies that couldn't speak. Pure Buu has the most Doomsday motivations ever and he was introduced at the apex of a decade-long burnout, and he still somehow had excellent chemistry with Goku, Vegeta and Satan. He was a sadistic little tormenter who nonetheless enjoyed prey that could punch back. You mention Super Broly, he barely says a word, yet his interesting dynamic with his Saiyan rivals carried that film's whole climax.

I appreciate what they were going for, but I think the broader political allegory driving the conflict against Gomah wasn't quite enough to carry it. Gomah himself needed to be more compelling.
If I'm to compare the climaxes for all of Toriyama's revival projects, I'd say this is leagues better than utterly pointless dreck like Cell Max, which was pandering nonsense from start to finish that added nothing to the movie except pretty stupidly used callbacks to a superior story arc – a rare miss on Toriyama's part, though sadly one of several in Super Hero. I'll maintain that Battle of Gods and Broly had the best climax character dynamics of all, however. You can't really go wrong with those two films.
Yeah, the more I look back on Super Hero, the more it feels like a pointless, glorified B-plot without an A-plot. The conflict against the Gammas petered out so badly that they had to introduce Cell Max just so the movie wouldn't prematurely end 30 minutes in.
I agree with you, I just want to point out what I think is a major underlying issue:

In the script for Dragon Ball Z: Ressurection F, we see that Toriyama doesn't really write out character beats during the fight like he would have when drawing the original comic week to week. We see this again in a lot of ways with Dragon Ball Super Broly, too, although I think Nagamine Tatsuya's directing helped lifted some of that up, I think actual, stronger alterations to whatever script he and the other storyboard artists were working from would have benefited the film even more.

Interview materials with Kakihara Yuuko for Dragon Ball Daima point to her basically copying Toriyama's notes as-is when she wrote her scripts. Kakihara's scripts match Toriyama's style for the two aforementioned films much more than, say, the scripts for Dragon Ball Super (2015 TV Series) proper.

All by which I mean: I think the major weak point here is not breaking away from Toriyama's script enough to weave the character arcs into the battles like would have been not only done for the original Dragon Ball (1984), but also for manga and anime in general.

The production staff of Daima and the films are too conservative when working based on a Toriyama script and it's actively making the stories not feel like they're properly paced and written. I'm not sure if all of the scripts were written before Toriyama passed away or was unable to be involved in script meetings, but they should have absolutely been going to Toriyama and convincing him to let them restructure the plot more so that episodes had some degree of weight to them and didn't just feel like a bullet point list being read off.

I know that I'm being a broken record here, but literally go watch the first ten or whatever episodes of the Tournament of Power arc. They might look like dogshit—thanks to scheduling and Yamamuro—but good lord did they feel like properly written episodes of a television series with tension and narrative and characters having lives and emotions.
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Re: What did you think of the final fights with Gomah?

Post by YamiGoku » Mon Oct 20, 2025 6:44 pm

Goma has to be the worst final boss in the franchise, I liked him on the first episode, but then he does almost nothing on the series until the final episodes, and as the final boss on his Third-Eye form, he loses 95% of his personality, he is just a big punching bag that can't be defeated on a fight, and the only thing he does is silly faces when he gets punched and says some oneliners a couple of times.

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Re: What did you think of the final fights with Gomah?

Post by Mr Baggins » Mon Oct 20, 2025 7:55 pm

LoganForkHands73 wrote: Mon Oct 20, 2025 4:33 pm This is a pretty wild take to me. I really struggle to think of a single final boss in the original series that doesn't offer some chemistry or at least an interesting dynamic with the heroes.
I just meant that interesting dynamics and themes needn't require constant yapping, something I've often noticed the word "chemistry" used as shorthand for (hence the quotation marks).

Indeed, Pure Buu is a fitting example. While there's a few noteworthy interactions where he's riffing off of the other characters, his role is by and large to be this existential threat that required the protagonists to unite and throw the whole kitchen sink to stop. The heroes in Daima similarly represent Gomah's comeuppance in many ways: Goku, Vegeta and Piccolo are literally the children he wished for, Kuu would become Gomah's successor in retrospect, and even otherwise neutral characters like Tamagami 1 participated because Neva decided to stop being complicit and instead take a chance on proper resistance.

With all the pieces assembled, there's nothing left to be said but to fight for the state of the realm. If it wants to take a quieter approach, I have no problem with that because of the way Daima built up to all of it. It, contrary to Cell Max, at least has a place.
JulieYBM wrote: Mon Oct 20, 2025 4:49 pm In the script for Dragon Ball Z: Ressurection F, we see that Toriyama doesn't really write out character beats during the fight like he would have when drawing the original comic week to week.
Now this is truly a wild take. For all of Resurrection 'F''s faults, character beats/chemistry isn't remotely among them. The whole movie is Frieza having psychological hangups with the two Saiyans!

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Re: What did you think of the final fights with Gomah?

Post by Vegard Aune » Tue Oct 21, 2025 2:50 am

Mr Baggins wrote: Mon Oct 20, 2025 7:55 pmNow this is truly a wild take. For all of Resurrection 'F''s faults, character beats/chemistry isn't remotely among them. The whole movie is Frieza having psychological hangups with the two Saiyans!
We have access to the script Toriyama wrote. What Julie says is true. The fight scenes are basically just "And then there's a big fight. Do your best, animators." Or at least that's how the Dragon Team VS Freeza Army sequence was done.

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Re: What did you think of the final fights with Gomah?

Post by Mr Baggins » Tue Oct 21, 2025 4:57 am

Vegard Aune wrote: Tue Oct 21, 2025 2:50 am The fight scenes are basically just "And then there's a big fight. Do your best, animators." Or at least that's how the Dragon Team VS Freeza Army sequence was done.
Yes, I'm aware that's how the 1,000 soldiers scene was done. Toriyama tends to leave the action and choreography to Toei's animators in his movie/television scripts, and notably, it's one of the few extended scenes in that movie with little to no dialogue*.

(* the sole exception here is a pretty funny convo between Kuririn and Jaco, something confirmed to be from the script.)

But while I don't have access to Volume F myself, I have it on good authority that all the major beats and exchanges between Goku/Vegeta and Frieza, all of which happen during their fight in the climax, are present in his original screenplay.

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Re: What did you think of the final fights with Gomah?

Post by BernardoCairo » Wed Oct 22, 2025 8:54 am

I can only say that I haven't forgotten that shot of Super Saiyajin 4 Goku smiling for the camera. It looks great, almost as if it were taken straight from one of the kanzenban covers from the '90s (particularly the Boo saga). Awesome moment.
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Re: What did you think of the final fights with Gomah?

Post by LoganForkHands73 » Wed Oct 22, 2025 5:37 pm

JulieYBM wrote: Mon Oct 20, 2025 4:49 pm I agree with you, I just want to point out what I think is a major underlying issue:

In the script for Dragon Ball Z: Ressurection F, we see that Toriyama doesn't really write out character beats during the fight like he would have when drawing the original comic week to week. We see this again in a lot of ways with Dragon Ball Super Broly, too, although I think Nagamine Tatsuya's directing helped lifted some of that up, I think actual, stronger alterations to whatever script he and the other storyboard artists were working from would have benefited the film even more.

Interview materials with Kakihara Yuuko for Dragon Ball Daima point to her basically copying Toriyama's notes as-is when she wrote her scripts. Kakihara's scripts match Toriyama's style for the two aforementioned films much more than, say, the scripts for Dragon Ball Super (2015 TV Series) proper.

All by which I mean: I think the major weak point here is not breaking away from Toriyama's script enough to weave the character arcs into the battles like would have been not only done for the original Dragon Ball (1984), but also for manga and anime in general.

The production staff of Daima and the films are too conservative when working based on a Toriyama script and it's actively making the stories not feel like they're properly paced and written. I'm not sure if all of the scripts were written before Toriyama passed away or was unable to be involved in script meetings, but they should have absolutely been going to Toriyama and convincing him to let them restructure the plot more so that episodes had some degree of weight to them and didn't just feel like a bullet point list being read off.

I know that I'm being a broken record here, but literally go watch the first ten or whatever episodes of the Tournament of Power arc. They might look like dogshit—thanks to scheduling and Yamamuro—but good lord did they feel like properly written episodes of a television series with tension and narrative and characters having lives and emotions.
Yeah, I wish the animation staff felt more freedom to do more creatively when the scripts have those blank spaces.

With the Super anime, they really had no choice but to improvise almost everything. And yes, that meant that quite often, it didn't tonally reflect Toriyama's work all that well, but now that we know how much of a mess the production schedule was and how little collaboration Toriyama gave, I don't think it's fair to hold a grudge against any of the creatives involved. All things considered, they really turned it around in those last few arcs and self-contained episodes.
Vegard Aune wrote: Tue Oct 21, 2025 2:50 am
Mr Baggins wrote: Mon Oct 20, 2025 7:55 pmNow this is truly a wild take. For all of Resurrection 'F''s faults, character beats/chemistry isn't remotely among them. The whole movie is Frieza having psychological hangups with the two Saiyans!
We have access to the script Toriyama wrote. What Julie says is true. The fight scenes are basically just "And then there's a big fight. Do your best, animators." Or at least that's how the Dragon Team VS Freeza Army sequence was done.
There was character stuff going on in the final battle at least, and some of it was alright. I enjoyed Goku absent-mindedly treating Freeza more like a friendly rival than a serious threat and even complimenting how far he's come. Vegeta giving less than a single shit about Freeza and burying him in the past wasn't what fans expected, but it was satisfying. It's, appropriately enough considering the thread, Freeza himself who comes off as kinda weak and bland in this script, never shutting up about his reveeeenge. It's also hard to ignore that some parts of the climax feel very derivative of the Piccolo Jr. arc, right down to how Freeza nearly swindles a win and tortures Goku.

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Mr Baggins
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Re: What did you think of the final fights with Gomah?

Post by Mr Baggins » Thu Oct 23, 2025 11:53 am

Well, that's the point.

It's a deliberate contrast. Goku and Vegeta didn't take Frieza seriously, but Frieza took them too seriously. Frieza was still hellbent on revenge while the Saiyans have long since moved on with their lives. That's the movie itself poking fun at him; maybe the Saiyans too, since their nonchalance blew up the planet.

I think if the fault lies anywhere, it's Yamamuro's direction and Sumitomo's score completely botching the tone of what was clearly a self-aware script. But OH SHIT GUISE FRIEZA IS BACK so of course fanfare takes precedence.

Toei got better and understood the assignment for Super Hero, which gives that movie a leg up despite my issues with, ironically, its script.

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OLKv3
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Re: What did you think of the final fights with Gomah?

Post by OLKv3 » Sun Dec 28, 2025 1:07 pm

Way too repetitive. Looked really good though

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Re: What did you think of the final fights with Gomah?

Post by Kenji » Sun Dec 28, 2025 8:36 pm

Boring, unsubstantial, repetitive, padding of the worst kind.
I'm not one to feel easily impressed by pretty animation or raw spectacle, I'm more one trying to understand how the story is progressing. So it really ended up feeling like I was watching hours of nothing.

There were bits here and there that I enjoyed, like Doo doing gags and parodying the series' ridiculousness.
But overall, we really didn't need 3-4 episodes in a row to get the point across that the Evil Third Eye is invincible.

Gomah is also not a very good villain,.
He's never done anything remotely interesting for me to believe he is an urgent threat other than wear a stupid MacGuffin, and to make things even more uninteresting, he treated the whole fight as an inconsequential exercise rather than a battle to the death.

Pilaf at the very least attempted and nearly succeeded in melting the heroes alive in his arc, but Gomah couldn't even do that. Yes, the bar is so low that Pilaf is a better villain than Gomah. Let that sink in.

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