Unpopular DB opinions

[JulieYBM]

I don't care for Abridged, but just block and go on with your day. If people want to talk about it, it doesn't mean that you need to engage with it.

[Captain Awesome]

I don't care for Abridged, but just block and go on with your day. If people want to talk about it, it doesn't mean that you need to engage with it.

I never said I did engage with it? I just said it sucks and I think it has had a negative impact on the franchise.

I was expressing my opinion, which is uh, the entire premise of this thread.

[PhantomSaiyan]

That's just life. People stop seeing each other because life happens. It's sad, but not depressing. It doesn't have to be due to some falling out, either.

GT wasn't very Toriyama, so an ending that tries to all of a sudden be Toriyama would feel off. We already got the open ending. Giving a more definitive ending felt right.

Dragon Ball isn't supposed to be "just life", nothing about it has ever been "just life", so to suddenly become super realistic just for the ending is nothing but a bummer in the context of all of the adventures the cast had throughout the years, it will never feel right to me, it's antithetical to the very essence of DB.

GT’s ending is definitely emotional for longtime fans, especially because of the final montage. However, Goku "dying" and becoming some kind of spirit who returns to watch over his descendants just doesn’t sit right with me. It doesn’t feel very Dragon Ball-like. Personally, I’d rather see Goku go off to train the next generation, leaving the story open for us to imagine future adventures.

Exactly, couldn't have said it better myself. Goku dying and randomly going off with the Shenron (who tf thought that was a good idea?) for super flimsy reasons just straight up sucks.
At least last time he abandoned his family we knew he could come back anytime with Instant Transmission (or even go back living with them like he did in Neko Majin), this time? He just fucks off, what a bummer.
Ever since I watched it as a kid it left a sour taste in my mouth. I never got emotional during GT's ending, all it managed to do was piss me off.
Having a sense of finality isn't always a good thing in stories. Some stories are meant to end with the implication that the character's adventures will continue.

Abridged is terrible and has poisoned the discourse around the franchise.

I'm sick of hearing about it like it’s a legitimate way to experience Dragon Ball.

“JuSt wAtCh aBridGed”

I don't straight up hate it, but I have grown to dislike it a lot, especially during the Cell arc where it seemed like they were trying way too hard, forgetting that they're just making a silly parody, and started taking themselves WAAAAAY too seriously.

The people who tell others to watch Abridged, or say that they prefer it however, I have nothing but hate for them lol that's why I don't talk in Dragon Ball subreddits anymore, it's infested with those people who have the audacity to claim it's better.

I'm not people having that opinion (even though I despise it) but I'm against those people calling themselves Dragon Ball fans. They're not, they are Abridged fans, they should at least have the balls to admit it.
Especially when they do nothing but trash talk the original Manga and Anime in order to praise their parody dub. It's like they lack the self awareness to even notice what they're doing

[WittyUsername]

I recall mentioning several years ago that DBZ Abridged seemed to gradually treat itself less like a parody as it went on and there were people who disputed that notion. Frankly though, I’m not sure how anyone who followed the series can deny that’s the case.

Yes, DBZA still made jokes during the Cell saga, but it also played certain dramatic moments a lot more straight than the older episodes, which had a lot more meta and fourth wall breaking humor in comparison. Basically, it seemed like they were legitimately trying to adapt the original story in their own quirky way, rather than simply doing an irreverent parody. They even seemed to try and “improve” the story in certain aspects, like when they established that Goku killed Dr. Gero’s son or how 17 and 18 acknowledge and are occasionally called by their “real” names (Lapis and Lazuli).

[ABED]

That's just life. People stop seeing each other because life happens. It's sad, but not depressing. It doesn't have to be due to some falling out, either.

GT wasn't very Toriyama, so an ending that tries to all of a sudden be Toriyama would feel off. We already got the open ending. Giving a more definitive ending felt right.

Dragon Ball isn't supposed to be "just life", nothing about it has ever been "just life", so to suddenly become super realistic just for the ending is nothing but a bummer in the context of all of the adventures the cast had throughout the years, it will never feel right to me, it's antithetical to the very essence of DB.

GT’s ending is definitely emotional for longtime fans, especially because of the final montage. However, Goku "dying" and becoming some kind of spirit who returns to watch over his descendants just doesn’t sit right with me. It doesn’t feel very Dragon Ball-like. Personally, I’d rather see Goku go off to train the next generation, leaving the story open for us to imagine future adventures.

Exactly, couldn't have said it better myself. Goku dying and randomly going off with the Shenron (who tf thought that was a good idea?) for super flimsy reasons just straight up sucks.
At least last time he abandoned his family we knew he could come back anytime with Instant Transmission (or even go back living with them like he did in Neko Majin), this time? He just fucks off, what a bummer.
Ever since I watched it as a kid it left a sour taste in my mouth. I never got emotional during GT's ending, all it managed to do was piss me off.
Having a sense of finality isn't always a good thing in stories. Some stories are meant to end with the implication that the character's adventures will continue.

Giving a bit of realism doesn't make GT super honest. It's not a bummer to have a character's journey end in a meaningful way.

You all need to stop using words like random. It wasn't random. Guess what, sad things happen. That doesn't make them bad, and you have the ending where Goku goes off to train the next generation. Why do it again?

Whether an ending is open or closed ending depends on the point being made.

It should be noted that the title of the final episode of GT is "Goodbye, Goku… Until the Day We Meet Again".

[JulieYBM]

The Dragon Ball anime was not created to appeal to Toriyama's fans. It wasn’t made to be a perfect recreation of how much of a weirdo he was. It was made for kids and their parents, by people who are not Toriyama. It was made by people who's job was to create something that appealed to a broader base than just whatever appealed to Toriyama. Dragon Ball GT feeling un-Toriyama like was intentional.

[PhantomSaiyan]

Giving a bit of realism doesn't make GT super honest. It's not a bummer to have a character's journey end in a meaningful way.

You all need to stop using words like random. It wasn't random. Guess what, sad things happen. That doesn't make them bad, and you have the ending where Goku goes off to train the next generation. Why do it again?

Whether an ending is open or closed ending depends on the point being made.

It should be noted that the title of the final episode of GT is "Goodbye, Goku… Until the Day We Meet Again".

It feels random to me so that's how I'll call it.
The actual reasons why he HAS to go with Shenron is convolluted as hell, and not even properly explained in the show itself. Besides, there's absolutely nothing satisfying about Goku just chilling with Shenron for whatever reason. Wtf are they gonna do?
What Dragon Ball mechanic even allowed this weird duo to be stuck together? It makes no sense

And like I've already said, nothing wrong with sad things, or endigns that give a sense of finality. Not in my Dragon Ball though. Dragon Ball is not that kind of story therefore this type of narrative clashes HARD. Completely antithetical to everything that came before.

There should always be a door left fot future unseen adventures, and Toriyama knew it.
GT's ending is absolutely a bummer, even if according to you it ended in a meaningful way, I see nothing meaningful about Goku leaving all of his loved ones behind (forever this time) to be stuck with a dragon (whom he never even used once to express a wish btw) for whatever mysterious mechanic of the dragon balls that the GT writers made up for the purpose of this decision.

The Dragon Ball anime was not created to appeal to Toriyama's fans. It wasn’t made to be a perfect recreation of how much of a weirdo he was. It was made for kids and their parents, by people who are not Toriyama. It was made by people who's job was to create something that appealed to a broader base than just whatever appealed to Toriyama. Dragon Ball GT feeling un-Toriyama like was intentional.

That's fair, but that's exactly why I don't like it, more weirdo writing for me please! (Though with Toriyama being dead and all, I'm not sure I'll be getting my wish anytime soon lol)

[JulieYBM]

I'd say that if anything, they didn't go far enough on breaking from Toriyama, in large part because the series—all of Dragon Ball—is still so largely made for kids and Series Director Kasai Osamu didn't have much of a strong vision. Going for a Secret Third Option—rather than more Toriyama-esque—would have really benefited Dragon Ball GT more. Like, I wanted more characters dying like Piccolo and never coming back. That was good shit and I wish both the Kasai and Toriyama had learned from that path.

[ABED]

Giving a bit of realism doesn't make GT super honest. It's not a bummer to have a character's journey end in a meaningful way.

You all need to stop using words like random. It wasn't random. Guess what, sad things happen. That doesn't make them bad, and you have the ending where Goku goes off to train the next generation. Why do it again?

Whether an ending is open or closed ending depends on the point being made.

It should be noted that the title of the final episode of GT is "Goodbye, Goku… Until the Day We Meet Again".

It feels random to me so that's how I'll call it.
The actual reasons why he HAS to go with Shenron is convolluted as hell, and not even properly explained in the show itself. Besides, there's absolutely nothing satisfying about Goku just chilling with Shenron for whatever reason. Wtf are they gonna do?
What Dragon Ball mechanic even allowed this weird duo to be stuck together? It makes no sense

And like I've already said, nothing wrong with sad things, or endigns that give a sense of finality. Not in my Dragon Ball though. Dragon Ball is not that kind of story therefore this type of narrative clashes HARD. Completely antithetical to everything that came before.

There should always be a door left fot future unseen adventures, and Toriyama knew it.
GT's ending is absolutely a bummer, even if according to you it ended in a meaningful way, I see nothing meaningful about Goku leaving all of his loved ones behind (forever this time) to be stuck with a dragon (whom he never even used once to express a wish btw) for whatever mysterious mechanic of the dragon balls that the GT writers made up for the purpose of this decision.

The Dragon Ball anime was not created to appeal to Toriyama's fans. It wasn’t made to be a perfect recreation of how much of a weirdo he was. It was made for kids and their parents, by people who are not Toriyama. It was made by people who's job was to create something that appealed to a broader base than just whatever appealed to Toriyama. Dragon Ball GT feeling un-Toriyama like was intentional.

That's fair, but that's exactly why I don't like it, more weirdo writing for me please! (Though with Toriyama being dead and all, I'm not sure I'll be getting my wish anytime soon lol)

You want exposition that explains all the mechanics. Not only would that be a waste of time, it wouldn't make anything better. The point is that Goku's gone and he's not coming back. They decided to leave it vague because it ultimately doesn't matter how. Clearly Goku made a deal so he could defeat the 1 star dragon and the price was his life and the Dragon Balls. It is in keeping with Dragon Ball as the Elder Kaioshin did make mention of the overuse of the DB's having a consequence.

The whole of GT clashes with Dragon Ball. The show should go with what makes sense with what it has built, not just do another open ending to leave the door open.

I prefer DB to have an open ending for DB not because it leaves things open for continuation, but bc it's in keeping with the themes of the show about continual self improvement. However, GT felt like DB in name only. A sense of melancholy pervades the whole series. The show went with what felt appropriate to itself, not Toriyama's DB.

You see nothing meaningful about a man dying to protect his friends and family and world he loves?

[BernardoCairo]

The Dragon Ball anime was not created to appeal to Toriyama's fans. It wasn’t made to be a perfect recreation of how much of a weirdo he was. It was made for kids and their parents, by people who are not Toriyama. It was made by people who's job was to create something that appealed to a broader base than just whatever appealed to Toriyama. Dragon Ball GT feeling un-Toriyama like was intentional.

I'm not sure if this was intentional. In fact, I see a lot of Toriyama's influence in GT. I truly believe they drew heavily from his manga to create the story (so much so that he gave the team instructions early on in production).
Anyway, the fact that Toriyama didn't write the ending has nothing to do with my opinion of it. I simply think it's weak compared to the original, nothing special.

[BernardoCairo]

Regarding DBZA, I agree that the fanbase can be a bit obnoxious at times. The story itself isn’t anything remarkable, so I’ve never really understood why it’s held in such high regard. Some of the jokes work, but the overall concept starts to lose focus around the Cell Saga.
That said, I don’t think the creators ever meant to cause any kind of divide within the fanbase. It feels more like a byproduct of social media culture, where everything becomes polarized and other fandoms, like One Piece’s, use it for ragebait.
Still, I really can’t stand the whole “Piccolo is Gohan’s dad” joke. It’s been run into the ground.

[PhantomSaiyan]

You want exposition that explains all the mechanics. Not only would that be a waste of time, it wouldn't make anything better. The point is that Goku's gone and he's not coming back. They decided to leave it vague because it ultimately doesn't matter how. Clearly Goku made a deal so he could defeat the 1 star dragon and the price was his life and the Dragon Balls. It is in keeping with Dragon Ball as the Elder Kaioshin did make mention of the overuse of the DB's having a consequence.

The whole of GT clashes with Dragon Ball. The show should go with what makes sense with what it has built, not just do another open ending to leave the door open.

I prefer DB to have an open ending for DB not because it leaves things open for continuation, but bc it's in keeping with the themes of the show about continual self improvement. However, GT felt like DB in name only. A sense of melancholy pervades the whole series. The show went with what felt appropriate to itself, not Toriyama's DB.

I don't want exposition, I want something that makes sense that doesn't come out of left field. To this day I'm still confused as to why Goku has to leave with Shenron, where tf they're going or even what they're gonna do, and why tf Goku seems so happy about it. It would make more sense if Goku just died normally.
Why would a deal with Shenron mean that Goku has to leave with him forever? Is Shenron THAT lonely?

And I can agree with your last points, I see what you mean. I also like the open endedness for how it relates to self improvement (but also because I just like to imagine that the characters will have more adventures even if I never get to see them)

And I also agree that GT felt different since the start.

You see nothing meaningful about a man dying to protect his friends and family and world he loves?

It's not that I don't feel anything meaningful in that.
It's just how it was executed, and what franchsie it was executed in. Dragon Ball throughout the years got me and all of us used to a certain type of narration, it educated us as to what to expect from it. So to suddenly have the very idea of Dragon Ball implanted in me betrayed like that, I just can't accept it.
I was taught by the show that whenever someone dies, as sad as it is in the moment, if the protagonists can overcome that wall, defeat the enemy, then everything will be fine again. I love that. And in GT, the final win didn't feel like a true win because of that. On top of that it happened in the dumbest way possible, so I will never accept it

If I want that type of storytelling, I have literal hundreds of other anime I can turn to that I love that do this well. I just don't like it when Dragon Ball does it.

[ABED]

You say you don't want exposition and then go onto say in more words that's exactly what you want. The issue with Dragon Ball is their version of the afterlife is a known location that can be reached. The point of the ending is to in effect kill Goku and for the characters to have to deal with it like we deal with death. When we lose someone, they're gone. They aren't coming back. Where do they go? Don't know. Where does Goku go? Don't know. Why does he leave with Shen Long? It's the price of letting him live long enough to destroy the One Star Dragon.

[JulieYBM]

For all of Toriyama's talk of going against the grain, an ending that has some degree of bittersweetness—the Dragon Ball GT ending—goes against the grain of a 'happy ending' far more than the ending of the original comic. I don't even particularly think that Dragon Ball GT is a good series, but it's ending feels far more reflective of the uncertainty, bittersweetness, and fear of real life than the original comic's ending does.

[jjgp1112]

You want exposition that explains all the mechanics. Not only would that be a waste of time, it wouldn't make anything better. The point is that Goku's gone and he's not coming back. They decided to leave it vague because it ultimately doesn't matter how. Clearly Goku made a deal so he could defeat the 1 star dragon and the price was his life and the Dragon Balls. It is in keeping with Dragon Ball as the Elder Kaioshin did make mention of the overuse of the DB's having a consequence.

The whole of GT clashes with Dragon Ball. The show should go with what makes sense with what it has built, not just do another open ending to leave the door open.

I prefer DB to have an open ending for DB not because it leaves things open for continuation, but bc it's in keeping with the themes of the show about continual self improvement. However, GT felt like DB in name only. A sense of melancholy pervades the whole series. The show went with what felt appropriate to itself, not Toriyama's DB.

I don't want exposition, I want something that makes sense that doesn't come out of left field. To this day I'm still confused as to why Goku has to leave with Shenron, where tf they're going or even what they're gonna do, and why tf Goku seems so happy about it. It would make more sense if Goku just died normally.
Why would a deal with Shenron mean that Goku has to leave with him forever? Is Shenron THAT lonely?

I know it's a joke but the nature of it leads me to believe you're missing the forest for the trees here.

The whole thing is just a Standard Issue Jesus allegory. For he so loved the world that he gave his only begotten filthy monkey.

(This is why most literature programs include the bible because 90% of heroic fiction is reheating The New Testament's nachos)

[PhantomSaiyan]

I know it's a joke but the nature of it leads me to believe you're missing the forest for the trees here.

The whole thing is just a Standard Issue Jesus allegory. For he so loved the world that he gave his only begotten filthy monkey.

(This is why most literature programs include the bible because 90% of heroic fiction is reheating The New Testament's nachos)

Having grown up in one of the most catholic countries in the world probably, the reference definitely isn't lost on me lol But if it's goofy it's goofy, no matter what it's referencing.

[super michael]

According to that ending, Goku and Vegeta's families had a fallout to the point that Bulma Jr. doesn't even know who Pan is.

That's honestly the most Toriyama part of GT. Better late than never I suppose.

This has to be kidding. One of the better decisions by Super is to have everyone be a huge family. When Bulma dies. It is a big drop dead tragic moment. I cant believe a Super fan is saying this.

I'm not a "Super fan". I like a few Super arcs, and dislike the majority of them. The world isn't exactly black and white.

I am also a big lover of the ending Toriyama wrote for the story as a whole. Goku was never supposed to be a family man, so it makes sense that he leaves his family to train Uub. And similarly, it makes sense that his descendants didn't keep in touch with Vegeta's and they just drifted apart.

I thought you were a huge fan of Dragon Ball Super.

As for Goku dying in the Cell Games, one could see that as the end of Goku adventure as living being, but it could be the start of his new adventure. We knew Goku could keep his body and he could train, explore Otherworld and meet other beings that kept their body.


Think of Bleach when the Fullbringer died, they ended up in Spirit World.

Now as for DBS episode 131 I will admit that was a good ending, Goku still has the goal to regain UI. Seeing Goku and Vegeta in a familiar place about to fight was good.

Goku didn't keep in touch with the others, after Piccolo defeat in the tournament. Goku didn't keep in touch with the others after Buu defeat.
Lets not forget Goku refused Porunga wish to have him teleported to earth, since he wanted to train on Yardrat.


DBS Super Hero however ruined Goku as a character, they turned him into a amateur, which goes against Toriyama manga. He was bossy and ignorant of the things that he once knew. Goku got a hard reset for no reason, he never regained UI after the ToP.

[GurixDr34]

Dragon Ball GT does not deserve so much hate it is a good show and the only reason why people hate it is because it is not Canon with Toriyama work but Toei did a good job and about the comment of a user who said that the ending of GT was not very Toriyama i disagree it was a great ending for the Dragon Ball franchise if you like the Original Dragon Ball you should watch GT now that there is no new Dragon Ball content i recommend everyone to watch GT and the Original Dragon Ball especially after Daima GT is the Original Daima only instead of traveling through the Demon Realm Goku traveled across the Galaxy i want to clarify that i like all of Dragon Ball all the Animes Mangas and Ovas i just want to give my opinion on that

Goku and Pan relationship as grandfather and granddaughter in GT is very good and i doubt Goku and Pan have that chemistry in Super Pan character shines a lot in GT and i would have liked to see a GT sequel show with Pan as the protagonist i hope Super knows how to use Pan in a good way too

Dragon Ball is a franchise with a lot of humor and thats fine i dont understand why some fans get upset with that humor will always be in Dragon Ball its fine to have moments of tension like in Z but i think Super and GT knew how to balance the tone of humor and seriousness well Dragon Ball is not Naruto or Shingeki no Kyojin

[PhantomSaiyan]

Dragon Ball GT does not deserve so much hate it is a good show and the only reason why people hate it is because it is not Canon with Toriyama work but Toei did a good job and about the comment of a user who said that the ending of GT was not very Toriyama i disagree

If it was non canon and good I'd like it. I like the Z Movies: non canon. Weak defense, our dislike of GT is not based on canonicity.

And the ending is 100% not Toriyama-like. He would never write something like that, and never did throughout his whole career. Not one of his manga has a moment like the GT ending. People who worked with him notoriously noticed that he really didn't like to write sentimentl things, it's a known fact.

[super michael]

Dragon Ball GT does not deserve so much hate it is a good show and the only reason why people hate it is because it is not Canon with Toriyama work but Toei did a good job and about the comment of a user who said that the ending of GT was not very Toriyama i disagree

If it was non canon and good I'd like it. I like the Z Movies: non canon. Weak defense, our dislike of GT is not based on canonicity.

And the ending is 100% not Toriyama-like. He would never write something like that, and never did throughout his whole career. Not one of his manga has a moment like the GT ending. People who worked with him notoriously noticed that he really didn't like to write sentimentl things, it's a known fact.

Goku doesn't seem to be dead, seeing that he appears in the tournament which Goku Jr and Vegeta Jr fights. Goku even appears in the GT movie. It is possible that Goku is still on his own adventure, just like how Goku was training, meeting other beings and learning from others.
Goku did learn the fusion dance and gained SSJ2 and SSJ3 while in otherworld before the Buu Saga.

Goku is someone that would sacrifice his life, to protect everyone as he did in multiple times throughout Dragon Ball.


In the past people had the idea that if GT was canon and Toriyama was invovled, then GT would have been better.


Piccolo now protects Hell from villains that tries to cause trouble.