Unpopular DB opinions

[PhantomSaiyan]

There's nothing filler here. Enma-Daioh says to Goku he sent Dabura to heaven in the manga. And by saying that Demon Realm looks like hell, it's already giving us some description of hell.

I would post the exact panel of this statement like I always do, but I'm on cellphone right now, so I can only suggest you read the manga.

No need for panels, I already acknowledged my mistake in my comment above I forgot it was stated in the manga

[Hellspawn28]

Oh that's right. Dabura was sent to heaven because hell was very similar to the Demon Realm, but after Dragon Ball Daima, the Demon Realm didn't look that bad, to me at least.

So... Why was Dabura sent to heaven?

Because Heaven is nice and cheerful. The idea of a demon being in a wonderland is pain to them.

[ABED]

It bums me out more that Goku leaves to train with Uub and makes it sound like he'll be gone for an undisclosed amount of time, which could be years. He can teleport so why the sense of urgency? That bothers me more than his fate in GT because there he goes away for a noble and and physically can't return. Goku at the end of Z leaves and could return anytime he wants but actively chooses not to.

I get this can be subjective, but how could that ever be more of a bummer? How? He can return to his family anytime and will 100% do so. Toriyama even drew Goku and Uub at Goku's house with his entire family. Yeah it's not 100% canon, but Toriyama still made it, so it shows that the idea of him regularly seeing his family and not just disappearing is there.

Now idk about you, but dying and disappearing forever to god knows where, is like, almost objectively more of a bummer than just going away for a bit lol

What is pointless sap?

The mechanics of why are goofy but I like the idea of Piccolo spending his afterlife making sure the bad guys in Hell don't cause problems. It feels like a suiting fate for Piccolo.

I think that's a terrible fate, and it does not make me feel good to think that Piccolo has the godawful task of living in hell and dealing with bad guys. Yet another bummer.

And as other people are already saying, the mechanics of GT hell are the nail in the coffin for this baffling decision.

Did you not read what I wrote? Goku COULD go back and see his family but the story makes it seem like he's going to be gone for awhile. He's choosing to leave his family when eh could pop in and out. A CHARACTER dying at the end of the story for noble reasons doesn't really bum me out. It's often cathartic. Also, I just don't care about Uub.

it's a task he chooses because being in Heaven bores him, and honestly, I get why. He WANTS to deal with bad guys.

These are stories, not real. Mechanics can change. I don't care if it's not consistent if it's good.

[JulieYBM]

Just to put it in more plain language: I think everything is a tool in telling a story, so it's not like I only want one type of story/film/television episode/whatever. I think Dragon Ball does fall into the camp of relying too much on one type of story or vibe and that prevents it from being a good television series/film/comic/whatever.

To reference another kid's cartoon: Gundam (1979) used death effectively to show the costs of war. Toriyama—especially later Toriyama—was far too unwilling to rock the boat and that made things have less lasting impact. You can still play as Ryu Jose in video games, but what his death represented—that even the White Base's big brother figure could die—gave the cartoon a lasting impact. I think that's what we see a little bit of with Piccolo's death in Dragon Ball GT, although I do feel like the staff tried to water the tension down a bit by giving him a small role in the subsequent arcs.

[super michael]

Just to put it in more plain language: I think everything is a tool in telling a story, so it's not like I only want one type of story/film/television episode/whatever. I think Dragon Ball does fall into the camp of relying too much on one type of story or vibe and that prevents it from being a good television series/film/comic/whatever.

To reference another kid's cartoon: Gundam (1979) used death effectively to show the costs of war. Toriyama—especially later Toriyama—was far too unwilling to rock the boat and that made things have less lasting impact. You can still play as Ryu Jose in video games, but what his death represented—that even the White Base's big brother figure could die—gave the cartoon a lasting impact. I think that's what we see a little bit of with Piccolo's death in Dragon Ball GT, although I do feel like the staff tried to water the tension down a bit by giving him a small role in the subsequent arcs.

Here is another example Inuyasha, Sesshōmaru didn't know his sword could only bring back to life once, it hit him really hard when he couldn't revive Rin. Luckily Sesshōmaru mother was able to revive Rin, but Sesshōmaru learned to value the life of others and not take it for granted. He also learned that he isn't a god that can revive anyone infinity times.

In Naruto many characters died which includes sensei and some of the main cast.

[PhantomSaiyan]

Did you not read what I wrote?

Not liking the attitude you're carrying into this conversation.

Everything else you've said, I've already responded to basically, you're going in circles. We have different taste in what we expect from Dragon Ball. I even acknowledged that your pov is understandable a few comments back.

Meanwhile I say my opinion, and I get hit wit the "did you even read what I wrote"
Yeah I have no need or desire to keep going, sorry.

[ABED]

Did you not read what I wrote?

Not liking the attitude you're carrying into this conversation.

Everything else you've said, I've already responded to basically, you're going in circles. We have different taste in what we expect from Dragon Ball. I even acknowledged that your pov is understandable a few comments back.

Meanwhile I say my opinion, and I get hit wit the "did you even read what I wrote"
Yeah I have no need or desire to keep going, sorry.

Sorry for how that came off but I said he can return to his family whenever he wants but he chooses to be gone for what is implied to be a lengthy amount of time. Your reply was "But he can go back any time he wants". Which is a restatement of what I wrote. That made me think you gave it a cursory glance.

[PhantomSaiyan]

Sorry for how that came off but I said he can return to his family whenever he wants but he chooses to be gone for what is implied to be a lengthy amount of time. Your reply was "But he can go back any time he wants". Which is a restatement of what I wrote. That made me think you gave it a cursory glance.

It's alright, sorry for the overreaction, I just felt like it was getting more heated than I would have liked, but maybe that's just my impression. It's clear to me now that you don't intend to have that kind of negative discourse, so I'm sorry for assuming you were more hostile than you actually are.

It's just that I don't feel as strongly as you do that the dialogue implies that he definitely won't be back, so I stated again how I think that Toriyama's Neko Majin depiction of Goku Uub and family is close to what actually would end up happening instead of him leaving indefinitely.

That's my idea, I should have maybe elaborated on it more as to not give the impression that I've read your reply in a superficial manner, but it was definitely meant to further explore the point, not to merely repeat it.
If I repeated myself, then I've been superficial about my own comments, not yours, I try my best to always give the proper attention to every reply that I get!

Ultimately, I respect your point of view, and I don't think it's unreasonable. I just happen to feel differently about it

[ABED]

No problem. My bad. I'll try to be better about how I phrase things. I know Goku will be back, but the way it comes across makes it seem like it's lengthy and indefinite. Goku leaving the way he does before the tournament is even over and not saying goodbye to everyone just doesn't work for me. I'm not judging this like real life. I'm judging this as an ending. I don't like the idea that it ends with Goku leave for even a year with Uub of all characters (erm, plot device). It's not all that interesting or cathartic. Goku dying to save the people he loves and the world he calls home is an ending I like way more. As for DB endings that work best, minus the 5 episode wedding dress arc, the ending after the 23rd TB is my favorite.

Correct me if I'm wrong but a few replies ago, you said GT went against what you had come to expect of DB which is them overcoming the odds. Problem with that is that for much of the time, they overcome the odds and put everything right again through a combination of convenient power ups and magical orbs that can bring people back from the dead en masse. Also a reminder that pretty much every restriction on the use of the Dragon Balls got lifted at some point.. GT had the good sense to pay off Old Kaioshin's warning about overusing the Dragon Balls.

[jjgp1112]

It bums me out more that Goku leaves to train with Uub and makes it sound like he'll be gone for an undisclosed amount of time, which could be years. He can teleport so why the sense of urgency? That bothers me more than his fate in GT because there he goes away for a noble and and physically can't return. Goku at the end of Z leaves and could return anytime he wants but actively chooses not to.

I get this can be subjective, but how could that ever be more of a bummer? How? He can return to his family anytime and will 100% do so. Toriyama even drew Goku and Uub at Goku's house with his entire family. Yeah it's not 100% canon, but Toriyama still made it, so it shows that the idea of him regularly seeing his family and not just disappearing is there.

Now idk about you, but dying and disappearing forever to god knows where, is like, almost objectively more of a bummer than just going away for a bit lol

What is pointless sap?

The mechanics of why are goofy but I like the idea of Piccolo spending his afterlife making sure the bad guys in Hell don't cause problems. It feels like a suiting fate for Piccolo.

I think that's a terrible fate, and it does not make me feel good to think that Piccolo has the godawful task of living in hell and dealing with bad guys. Yet another bummer.

And as other people are already saying, the mechanics of GT hell are the nail in the coffin for this baffling decision.

I mean, shit happens. Stories end. Yes, Goku disappearing forever is sad in a way, but as a way of closing the book for Dragon Ball and given Goku's wayward proclivities, it's fitting. It may be a "bummer," but that's life., and ultimately Goku did it for the greater good and his family will thrive for generations. Piccolo also seems to be fine with his fate, especially given his past comments on finding Namek's lifestyle boring. The former Demon King becoming Hell's bouncer is pretty fuckin metal, it's just how we got there was incredibly stupid.

And like ABED said, DB's ending comes out of left field and Goku's strange finality for something that he could easily step away from comes off much more aloof and dickheadish. I feel like Gohan's "Fuck's sake!" reaction is all of us.

[Grimlock]

Because Heaven is nice and cheerful. The idea of a demon being in a wonderland is pain to them.

Freeza was in a nice and cheerful place but still in hell.

[Dragon Ball Ireland]

Because Heaven is nice and cheerful. The idea of a demon being in a wonderland is pain to them.

Freeza was in a nice and cheerful place but still in hell.

A nice and cheerful place surrounded by fairies and cuddly animals sounds like Freeza's idea of hell. Also very Toriyama because it subverts expectations.

[Hellspawn28]

Because Heaven is nice and cheerful. The idea of a demon being in a wonderland is pain to them.

Freeza was in a nice and cheerful place but still in hell.

Freeza had his own hell. We don't know if the other villains got their special space or not.

[Koitsukai]

I'm in the "Piccolo being a Hell bouncer is awesome and fitting but done stupidly" camp, too. Enma didn't need to be portrayed as such a rampant idiot nor that situation needed to have any type of obstacle. Not being able to return to heaven, even if he doesn't want to, isn't as strong as choosing not to, in his own terms. It's like he is making lemonade because he was given lemons, instead of buying the lemons himself, which would've been more fitting for his character.
Also: what a wasted opportunity to have Piccolo and Paikuhan having some scenes together.

I never had any problems with Goku leaving with Shenron nor with the lack of explanation... less is more sometimes, and this is it. It doesn't need much really either, he sacrificed himself and the price to pay was to leave.
Where? it doesn't matter. For how long? apparently for a long, long time. Why? because somehow it's what Shenron wanted in exchange of letting Goku try one more time vs Omega.
It's bittersweet but I like it, it's the estrangement of the crew I grew up, after Goku's gone, is what leaves a weird taste in my mouth.

[Yellow Flower King]

I have an objection not only against ending dragon ball in such a bitter way, but also that this is an objectively or artistically better way to end it. I think Dragon Ball is a franchise that tracends generations and the characters are immortal in the hearts of everyone. This is one of the few franchises that has endured with a singular cast.

[jjgp1112]

I have an objection not only against ending dragon ball in such a bitter way, but also that this is an objectively or artistically better way to end it. I think Dragon Ball is a franchise that tracends generations and the characters are immortal in the hearts of everyone. This is one of the few franchises that has endured with a singular cast.

What does that have to do with anything?

[WittyUsername]

Because Heaven is nice and cheerful. The idea of a demon being in a wonderland is pain to them.

Freeza was in a nice and cheerful place but still in hell.

Freeza had his own hell. We don't know if the other villains got their special space or not.

That begs the question of why Dabura wasn’t sent to that same kind of Hell though. Enma explicitly said that he decided to send him to Heaven.

[Dbzfan94]

Freeza was in a nice and cheerful place but still in hell.

Freeza had his own hell. We don't know if the other villains got their special space or not.

That begs the question of why Dabura wasn’t sent to that same kind of Hell though. Enma explicitly said that he decided to send him to Heaven.

Because the King of the Demons going to Heaven is funny and this series has done Hell multiple different ways over the years so it’s just inconsistent. Plus the obvious answer of one was in the 90s and the other was 2015 so things are gonna be different.

[MasenkoHA]

Freeza had his own hell. We don't know if the other villains got their special space or not.

That begs the question of why Dabura wasn’t sent to that same kind of Hell though. Enma explicitly said that he decided to send him to Heaven.

Because the King of the Demons going to Heaven is funny and this series has done Hell multiple different ways over the years so it’s just inconsistent. Plus the obvious answer of one was in the 90s and the other was 2015 so things are gonna be different.

This. There was at least 20 years between a throwaway line Toriyama wrote circa 1995 and writing Resurrection F as a nostalgic cash in after being inspired by a Metal song.

Fans like to overstate the fuck out of Toriyama’s forgetfulness and act like he had trouble remembering to leave the house with his shoes but, in this case, chances are high that Toriyama genuinely forgot he even wrote the line about Dabura. It was a throwaway line that the animation promoted to a small one or two scene gag.

[Hellspawn28]

Based on what we do see of Heaven, maybe Dabra would have hated it. It's possible that Piccolo Daimao's off spring may have gone to heaven too because they are demons. They would probably enjoy Hell too much.