In order to continue DB's story in an authentic manner, Jump should create a Toriyama AI bot

[PowerPhantom245]

This right here should be basic common sense, bur for some reason it isn't. I'm not against the use of AI as a tool to make the work of an author/artist easier (like any other piece of tech that's been used over the years), but I don' want to see companies removing the human element entirely from the process of creating art. Look at Daima; that show was a labor of love from Toriyama to everyone on the production team; it's not the kind of project AI can create, even if you give it a 100 years to do so. The problem is, fans don't care about that; they want generic fights with little to no substance behind them.

Sadly, consumer/audience would buy into anything these days.

[The Dark Knight]

In the 2010s, Weekly Shonen Jump gave us My Hero Academia, Demon Slayer, & Jujutsu Kaisen. Before that they gave us Naruto, One Piece, & Bleach. Before even that they gave us Dragon Ball, Fist of the North Star, & Saint Seiya. I don't care how advanced AI becomes, it will never create art on that level, for the simple fact that it lacks the human element that brought these stories to life.

[Kamiccolo9]

This is going to sound awkward, but how common is AI in anime industry?
Is AI bot really that common in animation industry?

From what I understand, it's fairly common in subtitles nowadays, and AI upscaling has been discussed. I seem to also recall Netflix saying they were gonna put out an AI anime and outcry resulted in them backing down, though I may be misremembering.

[PowerPhantom245]

From what I understand, it's fairly common in subtitles nowadays, and AI upscaling has been discussed. I seem to also recall Netflix saying they were gonna put out an AI anime and outcry resulted in them backing down, though I may be misremembering.

To be honest, I'm not COMPLETELY against with AI in film industries, per-se.
Something like subtitle is fine, as long as someone double (or triple) checks the grammar and spelling.
I think it works the best for something like parody and satire, or humor like rifftrax and MST3K skits.
I would have issue if it becomes standard and new norms, which I discussed in details already.

[Hellspawn28]

It's bad enough that people use ChatGPT for creative purposes. As someone who is trying to be an English professor, I have seen people use ChatGPT to write stuff and it's so bad. Filled with clichés, errors, and repeating the same plot lines.

[PhantomSaiyan]

To be honest, I'm not COMPLETELY against with AI in film industries, per-se.
Something like subtitle is fine, as long as someone double (or triple) checks the grammar and spelling.
I think it works the best for something like parody and satire, or humor like rifftrax and MST3K skits.
I would have issue if it becomes standard and new norms, which I discussed in details already.

If they have to put so much effort into checking ai's work then they might as well do it themselves from scratch like they've always done.

It doesn't "help", it just interferes with the process that the professionals are already perfectly good at and familiar with. It's nothing but a pointless addition to a process that's already been figured out, it's only use is allowing higher up bastards to refuse the option to pay other humans for their services.

[PowerPhantom245]

If they have to put so much effort into checking ai's work then they might as well do it themselves from scratch like they've always done.

It doesn't "help", it just interferes with the process that the professionals are already perfectly good at and familiar with. It's nothing but a pointless addition to a process that's already been figured out, it's only use is allowing higher up bastards to refuse the option to pay other humans for their services.

Like I said previously, AI is essentially a tool; if it use it correctly it can have good outcome.
If you misuse it, then it would result terribly.
Every tool has its pros and cons.
AI use in film industry is a relatively new concept, that hasn't utilized well.
It just needs more time to practice.

I personally, think something like emergency/urgent situation would helpful.
Let's say an actor wasn't available to do voice work in unforeseen circumstances and the studio needs the stand up in short time frame.
Granted, there's always double/alternative in case of emergency for situation like this, but AI can be useful for this type of situation (I think).

[Dragon Ball Ireland]

It's bad enough that people use ChatGPT for creative purposes. As someone who is trying to be an English professor, I have seen people use ChatGPT to write stuff and it's so bad. Filled with clichés, errors, and repeating the same plot lines.

That's an example of where AI could be used as a tool as students could learn to edit other essays, which would make them better writers provided they work on what they've learned by improving upon generic AI slop.

[PhantomSaiyan]

Like I said previously, AI is essentially a tool; if it use it correctly it can have good outcome.
If you misuse it, then it would result terribly.
Every tool has its pros and cons.
AI use in film industry is a relatively new concept, that hasn't utilized well.
It just needs more time to practice.

I personally, think something like emergency/urgent situation would helpful.
Let's say an actor wasn't available to do voice work in unforeseen circumstances and the studio needs the stand up in short time frame.
Granted, there's always double/alternative in case of emergency for situation like this, but AI can be useful for this type of situation (I think).

It is unneeded as a tool.

AI bros are creating an artificial (pun intended) demand in the market for something that no one is asking for an no one needs, translators can do their job fine, same with artists, screenwriters, and everyone else that works in artistic projects: it's all figured out already, ai is again, NOT needed, the demand for ai in these roles DOES NOT exist

the ONLY ONES that want it to exist are again, the rich higher up bastards who only care about spending less money paying actual humans.

The solution to your "emergency" situation sucks: if a voice actor is not available they can already deal with it (ESPECIALLY now that they work remotely as well) without ai like they have done for decades instead of muddying the work with that shit.

It also sucks as an example because for all the talk of it being just a "tool to help", the only example you come up with essentially completely replaces the voice actor in that instance. You pretty much explained exactly why we think it sucks, accidentally proving our point

[Peach]

I have asked ChatGPT and Claude about Dragon Ball a few times, and it gets so much wrong. It thought Goten was Goku's Grandson and that Goku got all of Vegeta's memories by fusing with him.

LLMs are good for spell checking, doing search engine queries, writing cover letters, workshopping resumes, and basic tech support. They aren't good for complex fiction, especially with a franchise as complex as Dragon Ball. It regularly hallucinates and makes shit up. Anything requiring consistency and attention to fine details like in franchise work is a no go. This technology is going to implode within the next three years in all honesty as capabilities are exaggerated.

[Peach]

Even the top AI models struggle to really... well convey humanity in it's stories. I've tried to get Grok and Gemini to do silly DB fanfic stuff and it always is... well very fanficy wth generic character names and not to mention the limited context windows. A "Toriyama AI" would be a million times more forgetful (not to mention soulless) than the man himself.

Yeah. There's something about the way AI writes. It can't write real time experience or the cadence of how real people talk. It's almost like reading a summary of something instead of a piece of fiction crafted by someone. It never lives in the moment or lets a story flow naturally. It's always wanting to get to the next beat as fast as possible. Even when it's instructed to go slow and not be in a rush to move forward, it still reads as unnatural.

[MCDaveG]

Art is always an artistic expression of human or other conscious being. End of story.
I am tired of these arguments for the sake of arguments, completely ignoring fundamental basics.

[The Dark Knight]

Art is always an artistic expression of human or other conscious being. End of story.

Although I agree with you, I believe it will come down to the consumers to decide if this will hold true in the future. If people decide to support AI garbage because it's faster to produce, then unfortunately, that's what's going to be on the market moving forward.

[JulieYBM]

Art is always an artistic expression of human or other conscious being. End of story.

Although I agree with you, I believe it will come down to the consumers to decide if this will hold true in the future. If people decide to support AI garbage because it's faster to produce, then unfortunately, that's what's going to be on the market moving forward.

The wealthy create the artificial demand for AI, so it's their responsibility for putting this shit out there.

[The Dark Knight]

The wealthy create the artificial demand for AI, so it's their responsibility for putting this shit out there.

Consumers also have a responsibility to say "no, we're not paying for garbage". Companies understand one thing, and one thing only: their bottom line. If they put out a product and it doesn't sell, then they stop producing it. If it does sell, they produce more of it.

[JulieYBM]

The wealthy create the artificial demand for AI, so it's their responsibility for putting this shit out there.

Consumers also have a responsibility to say "no, we're not paying for garbage". Companies understand one thing, and one thing only: their bottom line. If they put out a product and it doesn't sell, then they stop producing it. If it does sell, they produce more of it.

I'm not absolving people of their responsibilities, but if you want to kill the dragon you have to go for the heart.

[MCDaveG]

Art is always an artistic expression of human or other conscious being. End of story.

Although I agree with you, I believe it will come down to the consumers to decide if this will hold true in the future. If people decide to support AI garbage because it's faster to produce, then unfortunately, that's what's going to be on the market moving forward.

So far, it's more about the companies promoting it, than market supporting it. Did the Coca Cola ad work? Yes it did... And it did so because of brand assets, that were not only created by humans, but were in use for decades. There are numbers and data for it.
On the oher hand, we can agree in professional circles, that the add itself was shit when stripped down from the assets that make it work on brand level. And that's the problem. Shit in, shit out, it's missing any coherent story besides emulating the christmas trucks (already before made assets, that AI can recycle). It took 70 000 AI shots to complete, because of promting and curating and in the end, cost around the same time and money, if it was created by regular pro team and probably with better result, as they could've pitch in more disruptive ideas than just soulless loops of artificial animals, that are there for the reason.
That is the worst thing about, you can try the same approach for your village business selling screws and bolts and the numbers will be bad – that's not different from the time before AI, when client came in and was like, "I really love what Nike are doing!" Yeah, but you're not Nike and probably never will be, you have to do your own work and development and find out what really works for you in the first place and then you have decades before you in the making, if your business can make it. Also one of the reasons, why jumping into popular trend makes you dead in the water and you should focus on being a trend setter as the thing you want to copy is already viral among masses, so you can get originally lost in it and forgotten.

There are many parallels. For example Hollywood. They made basically what AI would do, let's go earn the most money in the most efficient cost savy way. Stick to working models and do not disrupt them beyond necessary and let's play it safe. Combined with the destructive approach the companies had to streaming, we have a consumer fatigue that doesn't bring in revenue... Why is that? I do know the question from research.
And the same fate is waiting for AI. Many experts say that it is a bubble, that is ready to burst, as it is just a complex set of algorithms.
Open AI created hype, but are now unable to progress upon it... somehow, the AGI is way off the course than predicted and it works on different principles than nowadays LLMs.

Customers might be stupid in ways unimaginable per our views from the industry bubble, but they are not completely stupid. When labeled as AI, people are against it, just from the get go because trust issues for the most part.
But on general level, customers will eat up things, that bring in some longterm value or solve some of your issues.
So far, it just enabled people who weren't able to before, to generate pictures and content, that has the same value that people insert in it, surprise, in most cases it is uninteresting AI slop. AI can help you to put together a strategy for example, but you have to have the know-how first and funnily enough, be able to put it together yourself and in the end, can save you some time, if you know what you're doing.

Companies, fresh from the hype, are already trying to hire people, who will correct the issues and errors that AI created in the hands of trigger happy managers and the funniest thing is, that professionals are still going nowhere, as per other researches, the craft is far from being endangered and some companies, including in my country, found out that what is actually obsolete now is the middle management.

This is not personal to the user in quote, but in general, people who do frankly know nothing about the industry, AI, art or creative and craft procesess in general, tend to misunderstand the use, effect and implications of AI... it's also mostly those people who are in WOW effect, because for example their drawing skills were shit and now they put in idea, something happens and the output looks better than anything they could've created. That's great... but unfortunately, those outputs won't stand the scrutiny and won't be competitive by pro standards, as it is not about just the aesthetical.

I would suggest to anyone who wants to enter any of the disciplines, to study the subject first to a level, they can understand the why's of do's and don'ts as AI is just a tool like anything else. The craft mindset starts with the way of how you think before creating something in the first place and you are in control the whole time, just need to know how

Another interesting point, younger generations are moving away from classic social media like Meta (Facebook and Instagram), because companies warped and fucked the environment with mediocre content and AI helped to create a boost in that regard.
That's why many people in the field, including myself are not afraid of AI, we are not even against it as in the long run, the flood of mediocrity, sameness and non-usability will help to make our work stand out more and more.
And charging more money for it, because of exclusivity. Which already happened to me in a sense... Everyone can use digital tools from Adobe, Affinity etc. and nowadays, with an advent of workshops and courses, there is ton of quick born professionals.
For many reasons, some of them stated above, it didn't fazed me one bit.

[Saiya6Cit]

oh wow

I did not know the term ragebait, people who spend a lot of time on the internet are very... peculiar.

No.
The answer is No. Because AI will never be able to create a good story. Anyone who has used AI at work knows that it is more of an assistant than a creator.

All things considered, maybe in a decade AI could be able to create something well done. I would be better than Toyotaro's DB for sure.

[NeoZ Duwang]

Maybe we shouldn't continue DB's story in an "authentic manner"?

I think the most obvious counter-argument is that AI sucks! It's unethical and there's basically zero benefits for the art itself. And I agree! It sucks, there's no point in even considering it.

However, I'm also bothered by the [somewhat trivial in comparison] implications that "Dragon Ball needs to continue". I see this happening a lot in basically every fandom I'm a part of, but personally? I wouldn't mind if most series I follow just... stop.

It's not that I don't like getting new things, but we're not gonna starve when we have:
624 manga chapters (Original manga + Super)
659 anime episodes (DB/Z/GT/SUPER)
3 TV specials (Z/GT)
21 movies (Not counting Evolution)
(I'm counting from my head here, I hope I didn't make any glaring mistakes)

How many of you have read/watched all of that, let alone more than once? And there's still stuff I'm not counting, so unless Dragon Ball is your only interest in life [which I'm sure it isn't] you're going to be okay

[JulieYBM]

I think it's a better investment to create new original series instead of making more Dragon Ball.