DB & Z or Super: Which Should get a Remake ?

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Re: DB & Z or Super: Which Should get a Remake ?

Post by PhantomSaiyan » Wed Dec 03, 2025 3:51 pm

super michael wrote: Wed Dec 03, 2025 3:44 pm Dragon Ball isn't the only anime that Toei makes, with their other anime they have proven that they can do an excellent job when they want to. If Toei could improve digimon, then why wouldn't that be possible with Dragon Ball? They relied too much on PIS in the plot for Digimon Adventure Reboot.

Beerus in a costume episode was all about Goku being dumb, that episode contradicts his 21st, 22nd and 23rd Martial Art Tournament self.
DBS Super Hero Goku contradicts everything about Goku.
Goku forgetting senzu bean, that never happened before. Goku forgot the urn and talisman, even though Master Roshi told Goku to wait until he gets it. Goku believes senzu beans gives immortality and was a pest toward Zamasu.
Lets not forget Goku was annoying toward Whis, just because he wanted to eat. Goku got so annoying that Whis considered not training. Goku hated when Vegeta trained alone and when Vegeta didn't want to train.

Chi Chi didn't want Gohan to decide how to raise Pan, she locked herself and Pan away from everyone. She believes Goten is only allowed to train if there are bad guys around, otherwise he can't train. What happened to her development in the Buu saga.
They can improve it, not saying they can't, but not using your complaints.

Nobody at Toei will go "hey Chichi was too much of a control freak in the 2 scenes she had in the show, let's remake the anime just for her, that will definitely make it a good show and fix everything!!"
That's never gonna happen.

You really think Chichi makes of breaks the show? She's barely in it man

And Goku was always silly. Enough of the Superman Goku that western audiences think existed, but in reality was never there to begin with.
I can concede on the meditation fuck up in Super Hero, and the Senzu Beans, but other than that, the complaints are overblown.
Last edited by PhantomSaiyan on Wed Dec 03, 2025 4:03 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: DB & Z or Super: Which Should get a Remake ?

Post by super michael » Wed Dec 03, 2025 4:02 pm

PhantomSaiyan wrote: Wed Dec 03, 2025 3:51 pm
super michael wrote: Wed Dec 03, 2025 3:44 pm Dragon Ball isn't the only anime that Toei makes, with their other anime they have proven that they can do an excellent job when they want to. If Toei could improve digimon, then why wouldn't that be possible with Dragon Ball? They relied too much on PIS in the plot for Digimon Adventure Reboot.

Beerus in a costume episode was all about Goku being dumb, that episode contradicts his 21st, 22nd and 23rd Martial Art Tournament self.
DBS Super Hero Goku contradicts everything about Goku.
Goku forgetting senzu bean, that never happened before. Goku forgot the urn and talisman, even though Master Roshi told Goku to wait until he gets it. Goku believes senzu beans gives immortality and was a pest toward Zamasu.
Lets not forget Goku was annoying toward Whis, just because he wanted to eat. Goku got so annoying that Whis considered not training. Goku hated when Vegeta trained alone and when Vegeta didn't want to train.

Chi Chi didn't want Gohan to decide how to raise Pan, she locked herself and Pan away from everyone. She believes Goten is only allowed to train if there are bad guys around, otherwise he can't train. What happened to her development in the Buu saga.
They can improve it, not saying they can't, but not using your complaints.

Nobody at Toei will go "hey Chichi was too much of a control freak in the 2 scenes she had in the show, let's remake the anime jsut for her, that will definitely make it a good show and fix everything!!"
That's never gonna happen.

You really think Chichi makes of breaks the show? She's barely in it man

And Goku was always silly. Enough of the Superman Goku that western audiences think existed, but in reality was never there to begin with.
Who is asking for Superman Goku? No one is asking for him, what we want is Toriyama Goku to return. DBS Goku doesn't act anything like Toriyama Goku from Dragon Ball at all. I can show you how DB/DBZ Goku acts different to DBS Goku in the same scenario if you want.

In DBS Manga Chi Chi didn't do anything bad at all, she didn't get in the way of anyone training. They can do that with the remake. Although I can see many people won't care about Chi Chi.

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Re: DB & Z or Super: Which Should get a Remake ?

Post by PhantomSaiyan » Wed Dec 03, 2025 4:06 pm

super michael wrote: Wed Dec 03, 2025 4:02 pm
Who is asking for Superman Goku? No one is asking for him, what we want is Toriyama Goku to return. DBS Goku doesn't act anything like Toriyama Goku from Dragon Ball at all. I can show you how DB/DBZ Goku acts different to DBS Goku in the same scenario if you want.

In DBS Manga Chi Chi didn't do anything bad at all, she didn't get in the way of anyone training. They can do that with the remake. Although I can see many people won't care about Chi Chi.
Like I've said in my edit, I can concede on the meditation fuckup in Super Hero and the Senzu Beans fuckup, but other than that, the complaints are a little overblown.

And of course Manga Chichi is not annoying, she does literally nothing in the entire story after becoming a housewife, like every other Toriyama female character. She doesn't even get the chance to be annoying.

But aside from that, the point remains, Super would not be a better product if they made Chichi less of a "control freak" because she barely impacts the quality of the show in the first place, her scenes can be counted on the fingers of one hand, and are so insignificant and forgettable.

Why not fix things that actually matter?

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Re: DB & Z or Super: Which Should get a Remake ?

Post by SupremeKai25 » Wed Dec 03, 2025 4:24 pm

PhantomSaiyan wrote: Wed Dec 03, 2025 4:06 pm Why not fix things that actually matter?
Several people, on this very forum, said that they can't get into Super because it "looks ugly", even towards the end.

I mean, you talk like the "average fan" doesn't care about this stuff, but... that's not what I have seen in my experience.

Indeed, from what I have seen, pretty much THE NUMBER 1 criticism people have about Super and the main reason they can't get into it is the inconsistent and poor artwork, which was a result of insane deadlines and artists being overworked.

A version of Dragon Ball Super that constistently looks like Daima and Broly would in fact be wildly more popular and successful than base Super (which was already wildly popular and successful).

But anyway, this is all theory-crafting, and OP included "Super" in the question. So I don't see why we shouldn't talk about Super in this topic.
At his core Zamasu is good like Shin, though I guess you could say he was so fastidious that it backfired. But you know, for this "Future Trunks Arc" you had to depict Zamasu and Trunks' inner conflict, right? If this was back when I was drawing the manga myself then I doubt if I could have done it. I mean, I'm not very good at depicting the characters' psychology on the page. So this all came together because now I only have to think up the story. [...] On my own, I doubt I would have been able to express Zamasu's fall to the dark side.
Akira Toriyama, DBS vol.4 joint interview with Toyotaro

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Re: DB & Z or Super: Which Should get a Remake ?

Post by Vegard Aune » Wed Dec 03, 2025 4:25 pm

SupremeKai25 wrote: Wed Dec 03, 2025 2:08 pm I don't know why people are focusing on the manga. To me, a Super "remake" would be bigger and more ambitious in scope than that.

The point of a "Super remake" would be to combine aspects of the anime and the manga in new and creative ways to deliver a product that feels both fresh and nostalgic.

I would personally love to see a manga-only scene like Black stabbing Gowasu animated, but I also would want Black to keep his Anime personality.

I don't know why I can't have the best of both worlds?

And let me make this clear

A Super Remake is very unlikely. An OG DB remake is way, way, way, wayyyyyy more likely. I just want to have fun theory-crafting.
Really it occurs to me, if they were to do a remake to try and streamline things and work out plot holes and inconsistencies... It makes a thousand times more sense to start at chapter 1. That way you could do stuff like:
-Foreshadow Gero during the Red Ribbon arc
-Foreshadow Namek
-Not act like Kaio and then later Kaioshin are the absolute supreme deity of the universe when both those characters should logically be aware of the ones higher up the food chain than them. (You could technically still be sneaky about not referencing the Omni-King too early by saying that Kaioshin is the highest authority of "this universe", though.)
-Have Trunks not specifically identify the androids who ruined his timeline as "Androids 19 and 20" only for him to later come back and be like "19 and 20? Who are those? 17 and 18 are the ones who ruined my timeline!" (And this is an exceedingly easy fix: Just don't have him mention their numbers at all.)

...And probably a billion smaller things that are not coming to mind right now. Just, take advantage of hindsight and set up things earlier. I guess actually the Super era arcs would benefit particularly from this, owing to how Super barely connected its arcs together in the first place. It really was just "And then Beerus showed up but the crisis was averted. Later Freeza came back but they dealt with him. Later Champa challenged Beerus to a tournament which was neatly resolved. Then a while after that Trunks came back and asked for help with Goku Black, and after that battle was resolved he left. And then some more time after that the Omni-King held the Tournament of Power." Well, the Tournament of Power was established during Champa, I guess, and the second Omni-King introduced in the Future Trunks arc turned out to be a pretty big part of why that tournament ended up being what it was. But every arc except the Tournament of Power felt completely disconnected from the others.

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Re: DB & Z or Super: Which Should get a Remake ?

Post by PhantomSaiyan » Wed Dec 03, 2025 4:38 pm

SupremeKai25 wrote: Wed Dec 03, 2025 4:24 pm Several people, on this very forum, said that they can't get into Super because it "looks ugly", even towards the end.
Woah, I never said people don't want the ART and animation fixed. That's on my top 3 of "things that actually matter" and that need to be fixed
SupremeKai25 wrote: Wed Dec 03, 2025 4:24 pm I mean, you talk like the "average fan" doesn't care about this stuff, but... that's not what I have seen in my experience.
When did I ever say that exactly?...
SupremeKai25 wrote: Wed Dec 03, 2025 4:24 pm But anyway, this is all theory-crafting, and OP included "Super" in the question. So I don't see why we shouldn't talk about Super in this topic.
And when did I say people shouldn't talk about Super?....

Man..Are you replying to the wrong comment by any chance? Did you not read what I wrote? I'm on your side here lol

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Re: DB & Z or Super: Which Should get a Remake ?

Post by super michael » Wed Dec 03, 2025 4:46 pm

PhantomSaiyan wrote: Wed Dec 03, 2025 4:06 pm
super michael wrote: Wed Dec 03, 2025 4:02 pm
Who is asking for Superman Goku? No one is asking for him, what we want is Toriyama Goku to return. DBS Goku doesn't act anything like Toriyama Goku from Dragon Ball at all. I can show you how DB/DBZ Goku acts different to DBS Goku in the same scenario if you want.

In DBS Manga Chi Chi didn't do anything bad at all, she didn't get in the way of anyone training. They can do that with the remake. Although I can see many people won't care about Chi Chi.
Like I've said in my edit, I can concede on the meditation fuckup in Super Hero and the Senzu Beans fuckup, but other than that, the complaints are a little overblown.

And of course Manga Chichi is not annoying, she does literally nothing in the entire story after becoming a housewife, like every other Toriyama female character. She doesn't even get the chance to be annoying.

But aside from that, the point remains, Super would not be a better product if they made Chichi less of a "control freak" because she barely impacts the quality of the show in the first place, her scenes can be counted on the fingers of one hand, and are so insignificant and forgettable.

Why not fix things that actually matter?
I will admit that changing Chi Chi won't make any difference to what the fans think, you are right many fans don't care about Chi Chi. However I still prefer the manga version even if she doesn't appear.

If we were to make a complete list of dumb things Goku does in both DB/DBZ and DBS, I believe DBS would have a bigger list.

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Re: DB & Z or Super: Which Should get a Remake ?

Post by MasenkoHA » Wed Dec 03, 2025 4:50 pm

PhantomSaiyan wrote: Wed Dec 03, 2025 2:13 pm
JulieYBM wrote: Wed Dec 03, 2025 11:23 am Dragon Ball and Dragon Ball Z were designed to run forever. They weren't made with looking spectacular in mind. They weren't even that special when they were originally broadcasting, let alone nowadays when battle and alice-of-life anime are made to look better.
100% yeah, I'm not denying that, I just don't think it looks straight up awful, aside from some episodes.

I'm all for taking nostalgia goggles off, but I also don't want to downplay it either, some episodes had really strong art and direction
I think the main problem is much of the world got Dragon Ball and DBZ a decade or more after they were released.

Og Dragon Ball really doesn’t look any worse than say the 1987 Ninja Turtles cartoon or a Pup Named Scooby Doo or gen 1 Transformers i.e it’s actual contemporaries. But most of the anglosphere didn’t see it until the 2000s making it look worse than it actually was for its time


The manga was also designed to run for as long as it remained profitable or until Toriyama was burned out so nothing wrong with trimming the fat and looking at what worked and what didn’t and what became redundant in hindsight
Last edited by MasenkoHA on Wed Dec 03, 2025 4:53 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: DB & Z or Super: Which Should get a Remake ?

Post by PhantomSaiyan » Wed Dec 03, 2025 4:53 pm

super michael wrote: Wed Dec 03, 2025 4:46 pm I will admit that changing Chi Chi won't make any difference to what the fans think, you are right many fans don't care about Chi Chi. However I still prefer the manga version even if she doesn't appear.

If we were to make a complete list of dumb things Goku does in both DB/DBZ and DBS, I believe DBS would have a bigger list.
Manga preference is fair, I prefer it in a lot of ways too. Idk if it was you that wrote this earlier in the thread or someone else, but I'd also like for a version that combines the best of both the anime and the manga, because it's a little frustrating to me that both have strong pros and cons, I'd rather just have one but really good and polished story instead of two lol

And sure, he might have been more silly in Super, but could it be that the difference is that the situations and circumstances allowed him to be more silly? Some of Super has the same world ending stakes as Z, but sometimes, shit just ain't that serious in general lol it felt more lighthearted aside from Zamasu arc and latter half of the Tournament of Power

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Re: DB & Z or Super: Which Should get a Remake ?

Post by JulieYBM » Wed Dec 03, 2025 5:06 pm

PhantomSaiyan wrote: Wed Dec 03, 2025 2:13 pm
JulieYBM wrote: Wed Dec 03, 2025 11:23 am Dragon Ball and Dragon Ball Z were designed to run forever. They weren't made with looking spectacular in mind. They weren't even that special when they were originally broadcasting, let alone nowadays when battle and alice-of-life anime are made to look better.
100% yeah, I'm not denying that, I just don't think it looks straight up awful, aside from some episodes.

I'm all for taking nostalgia goggles off, but I also don't want to downplay it either, some episodes had really strong art and direction
There's definitely some great bursts of animation, but the overall quality of those shows really are pretty blah, even matching up against its contemporaries that were of similar length. I don't mean for this to be a hill to die on—after all, I did propose in my first post in this thread that it was wiser to just create original anime—but I do think there's plenty of merit to looking at Dragon Ball and Dragon Ball Z and going, "Okay, yeah, it's time for a new take."
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Re: DB & Z or Super: Which Should get a Remake ?

Post by SupremeKai25 » Wed Dec 03, 2025 5:09 pm

PhantomSaiyan wrote: Wed Dec 03, 2025 4:38 pm
SupremeKai25 wrote: Wed Dec 03, 2025 4:24 pm Several people, on this very forum, said that they can't get into Super because it "looks ugly", even towards the end.
Woah, I never said people don't want the ART and animation fixed. That's on my top 3 of "things that actually matter" and that need to be fixed
Then we are on the same page and the misunderstanding is cleared.

And yeah... it's the main reason I think Super *could* use a remake.

I don't think it *should* necessarily get a remake over the original... but it would certainly be interesting to have a world where Super has consistent artwork and it looks closer to Broly and Daima artstyle.

That's not to say that the original Super looks bad, of course. To me, aside from a few outliers here and there (which the original also had), the Future Trunks and Tournament of Power sagas don't look bad at all.

But unfortunately it's well-documented that the artists working on Super were pushed to the brink by insane deadlines. So it would be interesting to have a version of Super where the artists can actually work in ethical conditions.
At his core Zamasu is good like Shin, though I guess you could say he was so fastidious that it backfired. But you know, for this "Future Trunks Arc" you had to depict Zamasu and Trunks' inner conflict, right? If this was back when I was drawing the manga myself then I doubt if I could have done it. I mean, I'm not very good at depicting the characters' psychology on the page. So this all came together because now I only have to think up the story. [...] On my own, I doubt I would have been able to express Zamasu's fall to the dark side.
Akira Toriyama, DBS vol.4 joint interview with Toyotaro

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Re: DB & Z or Super: Which Should get a Remake ?

Post by Yellow Flower King » Wed Dec 03, 2025 5:24 pm

I insist upon myself and say OG DB really needs it. If OG DB had the animation Daima did it would be easily better than any anime currently airing, because it actually has genuinely epic moments that deserve to be animated as such. OG DB and Z readapted is a must for me.

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Re: DB & Z or Super: Which Should get a Remake ?

Post by Skar » Wed Dec 03, 2025 6:23 pm

I think a remake of DB or DBZ would be unlikely because the original versions were faithful adaptations of the manga with just filler added. Kai didn't do so well and that was cheaper than reanimating the entire series. Super is different with the production being rushed and there's still room to "streamline" the arcs and make them more faithful to Toriyama's outlines. I know there's technically no filler but maybe more focus on just adding scenes to connect Toriyama's plot points and less extra content and plot threads that don't really go anywhere or end up ignored in a later arc.

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Re: DB & Z or Super: Which Should get a Remake ?

Post by Peach » Wed Dec 03, 2025 7:24 pm

I would be in favor of remakes if they were movies - like what Dragon Ball: Path to Power did. I tend to think shortening a saga into a movie would be a good anniversary project. I was surprised they never followed up Path to Power with anything, or never did a three movie remake for the Saiyan saga, Frieza, and Cell.

A GT remake would be amazing as a set of movies in the Super continuity.

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Re: DB & Z or Super: Which Should get a Remake ?

Post by Shaddy » Fri Dec 05, 2025 12:52 pm

All three. Plus whatever stuff is worth salvaging from the movies, filler, Daima and GT. Go scorched Earth, why not. Ultimate Dragon Ball! If they focus on making a good TV show first and foremost, it'd take less than 150 episodes to adapt the original manga to a decently-paced format. 6-7 seasons, depending on how much of that filler/movie stuff did get expanded upon. Super's stuff would take longer, but that's also the stuff they can correct their own mistakes the most. They need to be honest about which things deserve to be altered and/or expanded from the source material (INCLUDING Toriyama's manga) and which things need to be cut entirely. I'm honestly past the point where stringent manga-accuracy matters to me, if Dragon Ball keeps going it needs to change and become a new version of itself, and that means it can't be shackled to thirty year-old cartoons that don't even have Japanese Blu Rays. Also all the stuff Julie said.

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Re: DB & Z or Super: Which Should get a Remake ?

Post by The Dark Knight » Fri Dec 05, 2025 2:43 pm

Peach wrote: Wed Dec 03, 2025 7:24 pmA GT remake would be amazing as a set of movies in the Super continuity.
Considering how Daima botched Ssj4 from a writing perspective (the fights were amazing), I can't say I'm too enthusiastic about a hypothetical GT remake.

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Re: DB & Z or Super: Which Should get a Remake ?

Post by JulieYBM » Fri Dec 05, 2025 2:52 pm

The Dark Knight wrote: Fri Dec 05, 2025 2:43 pm
Peach wrote: Wed Dec 03, 2025 7:24 pmA GT remake would be amazing as a set of movies in the Super continuity.
Considering how Daima botched Ssj4 from a writing perspective (the fights were amazing), I can't say I'm too enthusiastic about a hypothetical GT remake.
If we're going to hypothesize about a remake of Dragon Ball GT...we should be hypothesizing about it actually being good.

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Re: DB & Z or Super: Which Should get a Remake ?

Post by NeoZ Duwang » Fri Dec 05, 2025 4:06 pm

I'll hypothesize my own remake of Dragon Ball GT because that's what I'd want the most:

- Keep the Galaxy tour, but streamline Immega, change Zuunama's episodes to be anything but a carbon copy of Oolong and add two or three more adventures before going into the machine mutants stuff
- Make it so Goku can't turn into a Super Saiyan at first and is also actually weaker as a child. Also, give him his Nyoibo back, because I like it
- DON'T make Pan a damsel in distress and instead focus more on her arc about proving to the adults around her she is capable of helping, also, she turns into a Super Saiyan in M-2.
- Give Oob a subplot that happens concurrently to the space travel episodes. Maybe something about his own journey as a martial artist, I'm not sure
- Keep most of Baby stuff as is
- The final fight is a team up between SSJ4 Goku and Oob against Baby
- Make Goku and Vegeta kiss at the end after he recover his body, also, Chichi and Blooma are fine with this and they all start a polyamorous relationship

Not going to bother with Super 17 or Evil Dragons for now...
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Re: DB & Z or Super: Which Should get a Remake ?

Post by Zephyr » Fri Dec 05, 2025 4:13 pm

Shaddy wrote: Fri Dec 05, 2025 12:52 pmAll three. Plus whatever stuff is worth salvaging from the movies, filler, Daima and GT. Go scorched Earth, why not. Ultimate Dragon Ball!
Yeah this is kinda where I'm at. Toriyama's gone, he can no longer contribute even a little bit to new projects (posthumous contributions notwithstanding). Dragon Ball's "done" in a way it never has been before. Why not take the opportunity now to do a re-imagining that brings everything together into a single tidy continuity? Make Daima, the Supers, and GT fit. Maybe adapt the DBO backstory as an ending.

Weave the events of the old Z movies in somehow! You could get real crazy with it. Split Namek into multiple arcs with the events of DBZ Movies 2, 3, and 4 sandwiched between them. Depict the original "Future" timeline right after Namek (throw the events of DBZ Movie 6 in there) before the twins kill everyone and Trunks goes back in time. Depict the "shutdown controller" timeline next (throw the events of DBZ Movie 7 in there), and then show Cell killing Trunks and going back in time again to create the Cell Games timeline. Let's have two Brolees, fuck it. An so on, and so on. This would change which things are twists and all that, but we can get new ones instead.

My vision's definitely not doable in 150 eps though.

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Re: DB & Z or Super: Which Should get a Remake ?

Post by JulieYBM » Fri Dec 05, 2025 4:18 pm

I'll just shamelessly repost this idea for a Dragon Ball GT Remake I threw together for another thread back in May lol.
I really should do a version of this with the Super arcs and Daima at some point lol
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