Does Goku play up his innocence and ignorance?

[Yuji]

I think you can make an argument either way, but I'm curious on what the forum thinks. Does Goku purposefully make himself look dumber at certain points to fool his friends or enemies for a laugh, or is he genuinely acting on ignorance/innocence at every point?

If so, which certain scenes can you point to?

[Desassina]

He put on a mask until it became his face.

Perhaps worth noting is that Dragon Ball and DBS are years apart in development, so Goku's personality did not have a continuous growth.

[Dr. Casey]

I can't think of any specific examples, but broadly speaking I think it would be out-of-character for the Freeza arc and earlier, plausible for Cell, and very in-character by Buu. I think Goku becomes more clever and intelligent throughout the series and during the Buu arc actually seems slightly above average in intelligence. I don't know if he'd play up his ignorance for a laugh in routine social interactions, but almost 100% he could do so if there was actual motivation to. Almost the very last thing he does in the manga is be manipulative (being a dick to Uub to get him to fight).

[Yasai9001]

I can't think of any specific examples, but broadly speaking I think it would be out-of-character for the Freeza arc and earlier, plausible for Cell, and very in-character by Buu. I think Goku becomes more clever and intelligent throughout the series and during the Buu arc actually seems slightly above average in intelligence. I don't know if he'd play up his ignorance for a laugh in routine social interactions, but almost 100% he could do so if there was actual motivation to. Almost the very last thing he does in the manga is be manipulative (being a dick to Uub to get him to fight).

I'd be inclined to say that Goku is genuinely one of those people who loves to play stupid under the guise of his silliness but he is actually a social genius. He just likes to play dumb because he's free-spirited. He gets serious when he has to. And while he's not academically inclined, I can guarantee that if he wanted to, he could be Einstein 2.0; he's the embodiment of doing whatever if he sets his mind to it. But you know...he don't like that (academics/studying), lol

[nickzambuto]

This definitely became a thing starting with the Cell Games.

[SupremeKai25]

It's worth noting that Goku has an actual job (him, Gohan, Krillin, maybe Yamcha? are the only ones in the main cast with an actual job), and his job consists of farming and selling his produce on the market of neighboring cities... so he must be pretty smart, smarter than he seems, yes? I mean he farms, he puts prices on his produce, he finds markets in towns to sell his produce to, and so on.

He's not dumb or stupid. The perfect term would be "uncouth". He's uncouth because he was raised like a savage far from civilization, so he doesn't really know proper manners or basic things that people in the city take for granted.

He's a hillbilly. But that doesn't necessarily make him stupid or slow.

[super michael]

If Goku was pretending to be dumb in the episode of Beerus in a costume, that would have been better. The same applies in DBS Super Hero, it would have been great if he was pretending to be dumb.

As for Goku Black Saga that was the worst time to pretend to be dumb, he got an entire time line erased. I don't believe Goku was pretending to be dumb, he was actually dumb.

DBS Goku doesn't know how to be patient at all, he is super bossy and ignorant.

[LightBing]

It's worth noting that Goku has an actual job (him, Gohan, Krillin, maybe Yamcha? are the only ones in the main cast with an actual job), and his job consists of farming and selling his produce on the market of neighboring cities... so he must be pretty smart, smarter than he seems, yes? I mean he farms, he puts prices on his produce, he finds markets in towns to sell his produce to, and so on.

He's not dumb or stupid. The perfect term would be "uncouth". He's uncouth because he was raised like a savage far from civilization, so he doesn't really know proper manners or basic things that people in the city take for granted.

He's a hillbilly. But that doesn't necessarily make him stupid or slow.

I agree. Early in the manga he lacks any tact for how to behave in society, which comes off as stupidity.
At most he isn't book-smart although I think he did the minimum when Roshi taught him.

With the progression of the manga, his "stupidity" disappears and he's quite resourceful.

Super portrayal of him..., pure character assassination.

[SupremeKai25]

It's worth noting that Goku has an actual job (him, Gohan, Krillin, maybe Yamcha? are the only ones in the main cast with an actual job), and his job consists of farming and selling his produce on the market of neighboring cities... so he must be pretty smart, smarter than he seems, yes? I mean he farms, he puts prices on his produce, he finds markets in towns to sell his produce to, and so on.

He's not dumb or stupid. The perfect term would be "uncouth". He's uncouth because he was raised like a savage far from civilization, so he doesn't really know proper manners or basic things that people in the city take for granted.

He's a hillbilly. But that doesn't necessarily make him stupid or slow.

I agree. Early in the manga he lacks any tact for how to behave in society, which comes off as stupidity.
At most he isn't book-smart although I think he did the minimum when Roshi taught him.

With the progression of the manga, his "stupidity" disappears and he's quite resourceful.

Super portrayal of him..., pure character assassination.

You do realize I was talking about Super, right?

Goku in DBZ is dead half of the time, the other half he's just leeching off of Chi Chi, who comes from a rich family as her father is a king.

Goku in Super actually got a job and started financially supporting his family.

Thanks to his thriving work as a farmer, Goku is now able to financially pay for Goten's tuition fee at one of the most prestigious colleges in the world.

For context, that's the same college Trunks goes to and his mother is one of the richest women in the world. So Goku works his ass off at the farm and presumably makes a ton of money selling his produce to nearby cities.

[LightBing]

You do realize I was talking about Super, right?

Goku in DBZ is dead half of the time, the other half he's just leeching off of Chi Chi, who comes from a rich family as her father is a king.

Goku in Super actually got a job and started financially supporting his family.

Thanks to his thriving work as a farmer, Goku is now able to financially pay for Goten's tuition fee at one of the most prestigious colleges in the world.

For context, that's the same college Trunks goes to and his mother is one of the richest women in the world. So Goku works his ass off at the farm and presumably makes a ton of money selling his produce to nearby cities.

I did not, my bad.

His farming proves aptitude, at the same time Super portrays him as an idiot of the highest order. One thing doesn't annul the other.
The portrayal is still a caricature of Goku.

[super michael]

You do realize I was talking about Super, right?

Goku in DBZ is dead half of the time, the other half he's just leeching off of Chi Chi, who comes from a rich family as her father is a king.

Goku in Super actually got a job and started financially supporting his family.

Thanks to his thriving work as a farmer, Goku is now able to financially pay for Goten's tuition fee at one of the most prestigious colleges in the world.

For context, that's the same college Trunks goes to and his mother is one of the richest women in the world. So Goku works his ass off at the farm and presumably makes a ton of money selling his produce to nearby cities.

I did not, my bad.

His farming proves aptitude, at the same time Super portrays him as an idiot of the highest order. One thing doesn't annul the other.
The portrayal is still a caricature of Goku.

In the episode of Beerus in a costume how in the world was Goku so clueless, they stripped Goku of all his intelligence for no reason.

- Kuririn went in front of Goku and screamed Taiyoken, Goku saw this before the light appeared.
- Beerus didn't disguise his smell, he only wore a costume, Goku should have been able to tell that he doesn't smell like Monaka.
- Beerus costume was breaking, Goku should have been able to see it breaking.
- Goku heard Yamcha spill the beans about Monaka being knocked out the entire time
- Goku was near everyone, so he should have been able to sense their ki and smell

Goku didn't figure it out. DB/DBZ Goku would have figured that out very easy.


Lets not forget that Goku being forgetful got Future Trunks time line erased. Whenever Goku said something smart in Goku Black Saga, they acted all surprise, no one acted like that in DB/DBZ. Lets not forget DBS Super Hero which Goku was completely clueless and bossy.

[Dr. Casey]

It's worth noting that Goku has an actual job (him, Gohan, Krillin, maybe Yamcha? are the only ones in the main cast with an actual job), and his job consists of farming and selling his produce on the market of neighboring cities... so he must be pretty smart, smarter than he seems, yes? I mean he farms, he puts prices on his produce, he finds markets in towns to sell his produce to, and so on.

He's not dumb or stupid. The perfect term would be "uncouth". He's uncouth because he was raised like a savage far from civilization, so he doesn't really know proper manners or basic things that people in the city take for granted.

He's a hillbilly. But that doesn't necessarily make him stupid or slow.

I agree. Early in the manga he lacks any tact for how to behave in society, which comes off as stupidity.
At most he isn't book-smart although I think he did the minimum when Roshi taught him.

With the progression of the manga, his "stupidity" disappears and he's quite resourceful.

That's all true, and on top of being less worldly and experienced he genuinely is just kind of dumb early on due to being a kid. Pilaf Goku feels structurally different, more vacant and vapid. I think the Red Ribbon arc is where it first feels as though something's actually going on upstairs (especially from Tao Pai Pai onwards), whereas in Pilaf and 21st Budokai he's more of a braindead little monkey boy reacting to stimuli. In Saiyan and Freeza he's kind of an average himbo country guy, and in Cell and especially Buu he seems somewhat above average - good insight into others, a little manipulative, willing to have long complicated conversations like a normal adult (Trunks arrival).

[MasenkoHA]

Not exactly playing up his “innocence and ignorance “ as much as he’s showing a surprising amount of tact and reasoning to someone like an actual adult but Goku does rationalize to Buruma that Gero “technically hasn’t done anything wrong yet” as a reason to not just find him and kill him before he creates the Androids. I think we all know he just really wants to fight the Androids like Vegeta and Tenshinhan.

Depending on how you want to interpret him not offering up Chi Chi to Elder Kaioshin. Did he sincerely think the old coot wouldn’t be interested in her boobs or did he just not want his wife getting felt up by someone else either?


In both the Murasaki two parter and the Hell filler in Z Goku does come off like he’s playing the innocent act to fuck with Murasaki and later Gozu and Mezu but that could be up for viewer interpretation.

[Mystic-han]

No

The only time you could argue for it was Buu saga but even then he was a totally moron

[super michael]

No

The only time you could argue for it was Buu saga but even then he was a totally moron

Goku wasn't a complete moron in the Buu Saga, he did the best that he could with the information that he had.

Goku avoided using SSJ3 against Vegeta, since he wanted to keep it for an emergency. If Goku used it, he wouldn't know how much time he would have left on earth after using it and he wouldn't know if Buu revives in that time span. Buu can revive earlier an expected by the space ship getting some shock wave or explosion.

When Buu revived Goku was thinking of himself and Vegeta fighting together, Goku had no way of knowing that Vegeta would do something as stupid as fighting alone and doing suicidie.
Goku using his time to train Goten and Trunks was smart, since the earth needs strong fighters, for when there are new villains. Goku knew that Buu wouldn't be the last villain and he can't return to earth again. The only reason Goku had to fight Buu was to stall, so someone could get the radar to get the Dragon Balls.
Goku had no way of knowing that Buu would split up and get eaten to become something worse.


The only thing dumb that Goku did was destroy the Potara against Kid Buu, however regardless if he did or didn't destroy the Potara we know Vegeta was going to destroy his.

[Koitsukai]

No

The only time you could argue for it was Buu saga but even then he was a totally moron

Goku wasn't a complete moron in the Buu Saga, he did the best that he could with the information that he had.

Goku avoided using SSJ3 against Vegeta, since he wanted to keep it for an emergency. If Goku used it, he wouldn't know how much time he would have left on earth after using it and he wouldn't know if Buu revives in that time span. Buu can revive earlier an expected by the space ship getting some shock wave or explosion.

When Buu revived Goku was thinking of himself and Vegeta fighting together, Goku had no way of knowing that Vegeta would do something as stupid as fighting alone and doing suicidie.
Goku using his time to train Goten and Trunks was smart, since the earth needs strong fighters, for when there are new villains. Goku knew that Buu wouldn't be the last villain and he can't return to earth again. The only reason Goku had to fight Buu was to stall, so someone could get the radar to get the Dragon Balls.
Goku had no way of knowing that Buu would split up and get eaten to become something worse.


The only thing dumb that Goku did was destroy the Potara against Kid Buu, however regardless if he did or didn't destroy the Potara we know Vegeta was going to destroy his.

Haven’t we been through this before?
Goku had, all along, in his back pocket, the key to ending the arc before it even began.

With a finger, he could’ve turned Geet’s M into an L (kudos to jjgp1112 for the awesome phrase), teleported back to Dabura, erased him (not even needing SS3 for that), and thus de-stoned Krillin and Piccolo. Even if he were called back to the afterlife before dealing with Babidi, the crisis would’ve already been avoided by the time he left his encounter with Vegeta completely unscathered.
He just wanted to do his thing, as usual.

It was Goku who freed Buu because of all the damage he let himself take by using a weaker form. And later, he didn’t hesitate to whip out SS3 just to stall Buu, even though he could’ve shunkan-ido’d the fuck out of that radar himself and continued training the kids. Instead, he chose to play a little longer, at the expense of possibly being sent back to the Afterlife before even finishing the fusion dance lessons.

He wasn’t being a moron like in DBS, he was being selfish, caring about nothing except his desire to fight people on even terms. He didn’t even care about beating Buu. He just wanted to flex.

[super michael]

No

The only time you could argue for it was Buu saga but even then he was a totally moron

Goku wasn't a complete moron in the Buu Saga, he did the best that he could with the information that he had.

Goku avoided using SSJ3 against Vegeta, since he wanted to keep it for an emergency. If Goku used it, he wouldn't know how much time he would have left on earth after using it and he wouldn't know if Buu revives in that time span. Buu can revive earlier an expected by the space ship getting some shock wave or explosion.

When Buu revived Goku was thinking of himself and Vegeta fighting together, Goku had no way of knowing that Vegeta would do something as stupid as fighting alone and doing suicidie.
Goku using his time to train Goten and Trunks was smart, since the earth needs strong fighters, for when there are new villains. Goku knew that Buu wouldn't be the last villain and he can't return to earth again. The only reason Goku had to fight Buu was to stall, so someone could get the radar to get the Dragon Balls.
Goku had no way of knowing that Buu would split up and get eaten to become something worse.


The only thing dumb that Goku did was destroy the Potara against Kid Buu, however regardless if he did or didn't destroy the Potara we know Vegeta was going to destroy his.

Haven’t we been through this before?
Goku had, all along, in his back pocket, the key to ending the arc before it even began.

With a finger, he could’ve turned Geet’s M into an L (kudos to jjgp1112 for the awesome phrase), teleported back to Dabura, erased him (not even needing SS3 for that), and thus de-stoned Krillin and Piccolo. Even if he were called back to the afterlife before dealing with Babidi, the crisis would’ve already been avoided by the time he left his encounter with Vegeta completely unscathered.
He just wanted to do his thing, as usual.

It was Goku who freed Buu because of all the damage he let himself take by using a weaker form. And later, he didn’t hesitate to whip out SS3 just to stall Buu, even though he could’ve shunkan-ido’d the fuck out of that radar himself and continued training the kids. Instead, he chose to play a little longer, at the expense of possibly being sent back to the Afterlife before even finishing the fusion dance lessons.

He wasn’t being a moron like in DBS, he was being selfish, caring about nothing except his desire to fight people on even terms. He didn’t even care about beating Buu. He just wanted to flex.

So basically the idea is this, Goku turns SSJ3 and easily beats Majin Vegeta. Then Goku uses shunkan-ido to teleport to Babidi and Dabura and then beats them with his SSJ2 form. Gohan didn't need to lift a finger with this plan.
This is a great plan, there is no way Babidi would get any energy from Goku at all. Although can Goku lock on to Dabura ki? Goku did mention that Babidi men ki are not normal.

Goku can't use shunkan-ido to West City to get the Dragon Ball Radar, he has to lock on to a strong ki. If there is no one strong in West City, then he can't teleport there. Notice when Trunks says he got the radar, he reverts back to base form as soon as possible and then use shunkan-ido to Kami Lookout.
Goku didn't fight Buu because he wanted to, he fought Buu because he had to, to give Trunks time to get the radar. Without that radar finding the dragon balls would be impossible.

Goku didn't fight Buu with the intention of beating him or flexing, his intention was to stall. Goku didn't hold SSJ3 back to be even with Vegeta, he held it because for an emergency which as you shown it was a bad plan. I doubt Goku was being selfish there.

[Koitsukai]

So basically the idea is this, Goku turns SSJ3 and easily beats Majin Vegeta. Then Goku uses shunkan-ido to teleport to Babidi and Dabura and then beats them with his SSJ2 form. Gohan didn't need to lift a finger with this plan.
This is a great plan, there is no way Babidi would get any energy from Goku at all. Although can Goku lock on to Dabura ki? Goku did mention that Babidi men ki are not normal.

Goku can't use shunkan-ido to West City to get the Dragon Ball Radar, he has to lock on to a strong ki. If there is no one strong in West City, then he can't teleport there. Notice when Trunks says he got the radar, he reverts back to base form as soon as possible and then use shunkan-ido to Kami Lookout.
Goku didn't fight Buu because he wanted to, he fought Buu because he had to, to give Trunks time to get the radar. Without that radar finding the dragon balls would be impossible.

Goku didn't fight Buu with the intention of beating him or flexing, his intention was to stall. Goku didn't hold SSJ3 back to be even with Vegeta, he held it because for an emergency which as you shown it was a bad plan. I doubt Goku was being selfish there.

Goku doesn't need to lock on to Dabura, Gohan's ki is enough, he's right there. Shit, there's no need to hurry either with Vegeta KO'd, he can fly there, too. He knew SS3 could be used for an instant, at the very least... he chose to use it twice, after all.

Shunkanido depends on what the plot requires, if he could get from the AL to a planet that's unreachable like Shin's, he can get to West City. And if he cannot, he can fly waaaay faster than Trunks. He only needs to get there, he can shunkanido his way back to Kami's lookout.
There's no way around it, he wanted to fight Buu, there were many options smarter and less risky than what he ended up doing.
You are confusing the excuse he gave to jump back into the ring with what he actually wanted to do.

What emergency could there be greater than preventing Buu's revival? Janemba appearing on Earth two hours later? Black Goku? there's nothing else!
We've been here before, come on. I shouldn't be repeating the same arguments every six months.

[super michael]

So basically the idea is this, Goku turns SSJ3 and easily beats Majin Vegeta. Then Goku uses shunkan-ido to teleport to Babidi and Dabura and then beats them with his SSJ2 form. Gohan didn't need to lift a finger with this plan.
This is a great plan, there is no way Babidi would get any energy from Goku at all. Although can Goku lock on to Dabura ki? Goku did mention that Babidi men ki are not normal.

Goku can't use shunkan-ido to West City to get the Dragon Ball Radar, he has to lock on to a strong ki. If there is no one strong in West City, then he can't teleport there. Notice when Trunks says he got the radar, he reverts back to base form as soon as possible and then use shunkan-ido to Kami Lookout.
Goku didn't fight Buu because he wanted to, he fought Buu because he had to, to give Trunks time to get the radar. Without that radar finding the dragon balls would be impossible.

Goku didn't fight Buu with the intention of beating him or flexing, his intention was to stall. Goku didn't hold SSJ3 back to be even with Vegeta, he held it because for an emergency which as you shown it was a bad plan. I doubt Goku was being selfish there.

Goku doesn't need to lock on to Dabura, Gohan's ki is enough, he's right there. Shit, there's no need to hurry either with Vegeta KO'd, he can fly there, too. He knew SS3 could be used for an instant, at the very least... he chose to use it twice, after all.

Shunkanido depends on what the plot requires, if he could get from the AL to a planet that's unreachable like Shin's, he can get to West City. And if he cannot, he can fly waaaay faster than Trunks. He only needs to get there, he can shunkanido his way back to Kami's lookout.
There's no way around it, he wanted to fight Buu, there were many options smarter and less risky than what he ended up doing.
You are confusing the excuse he gave to jump back into the ring with what he actually wanted to do.

What emergency could there be greater than preventing Buu's revival? Janemba appearing on Earth two hours later? Black Goku? there's nothing else!
We've been here before, come on. I shouldn't be repeating the same arguments every six months.

You have proven Goku idea in not using SSJ3 against Vegeta was a bad plan. Goku had complete faith that Gohan could kill Dabura by getting enraged, so Goku didn't calculate in Buu arrival.

shunkan-ido has only been used for long distant when there is a ki to lock on, the only time it has been used without locking on to a ki signature is when it is close range.
Trunks would know were the Dragon Ball Radar is placed better than Goku, Trunks not knowing where the radar is placed is anime filler.
If they had the radar then Goku wouldn't fight Buu, Bulma pointed out that she needs special parts to make another radar which isn't available in Kami Lookout.


The only time Goku was 100% selfish in the Buu Saga was when he decided to destroy the Potara against Kid Buu.
Goku wanting to fuse with the Potara was good, along with wanting to keep the Potara incase they need to fuse outside Buu body and wanting to fuse with the fusion dance. Not sure why he changed against Kid Buu.

[Saiya6Cit]

I think you can make an argument either way, but I'm curious on what the forum thinks. Does Goku purposefully make himself look dumber at certain points to fool his friends or enemies for a laugh, or is he genuinely acting on ignorance/innocence at every point?

If so, which certain scenes can you point to?

Yes.

There has been times when he plays dumb. For example: When he offered somebody else's wife to old Kai. He knows what a wife is, and he knows what men want women for, and still he did it. And when Vegeta confronted him he played dumb.