Janemba could be the next villain! (ties to Black Frieza)

[Dragmobot12]

If Janemba comes back, he’s not a villain. He’s a consequence.

Janemba was never just “evil incarnate.” Even in Fusion Reborn, he existed because the system that was supposed to cleanse evil failed. Evil didn’t rebel. It overflowed. That distinction matters, because modern Dragon Ball has quietly turned its gods into the biggest source of imbalance in the multiverse. Look at the pattern, Gods of Destruction erase civilizations casually, Zeno deletes entire universes for convenience, Angels preach neutrality while enabling all of the atrocities, this isn’t justice, it’s authority without accountability.

The line was crossed when Whis resurrected Frieza. An Angel overrode the afterlife and brought back a genocidal monster who was already being punished in hell, not out of mercy, but convenience. That’s not balance. That’s cosmic interference. That should not be possible.

Angels have their own rules they cannot break, right? They can't fight, or use their power for example, but there's probably more rules and somehow, you would think that crossing a realm they have no dominion off and bring back a literal space hitler, would somehow not have consequences?

This whole thing just feeds the Janemba machine even more in my opinion, and it's honestly a better take because souls are not evil, what's evil are the actions of the living, and now even gods sin. So, to put it short, I see Janemba being brought back as an entity created by the universe itself to basically correct itself. And it would kinda feel like a direct sequel to Goku Black/Zamasu and Tournament of Power, because both have covered these similar events. The outside world is getting more evil and evil.

[Kaboom]

Please for the love of Dende, no.

Too many prominent classic characters and concepts have already been dragged through the mud and devalued by the modern slop — Freeza, Bardock, Trunks, Broli, Super Saiyan 4... even Goku himself.

I don't need or want to see some similar half-assed revamp of poor Janemba, especially not one where the "it's Beerus and/or Whis' fault" trope is regurgitated yet again.

[The Dark Knight]

Please for the love of Dende, no.

Too many prominent classic characters and concepts have already been dragged through the mud and devalued by the modern slop — Freeza, Bardock, Trunks, Broli, Super Saiyan 4... even Goku himself.

I don't need or want to see some similar half-assed revamp of poor Janemba, especially not one where the "it's Beerus and/or Whis' fault" trope is regurgitated yet again.

Don't worry, Cooler is probably up next; it'll be awhile before they get to Janemba. I do agree with you though, as it seems like everyone they bring back ends up being worse than they were originally.

[Dragmobot12]

Please for the love of Dende, no.

Too many prominent classic characters and concepts have already been dragged through the mud and devalued by the modern slop — Freeza, Bardock, Trunks, Broli, Super Saiyan 4... even Goku himself.

I don't need or want to see some similar half-assed revamp of poor Janemba, especially not one where the "it's Beerus and/or Whis' fault" trope is regurgitated yet again.

Don't worry, Cooler is probably up next; it'll be awhile before they get to Janemba. I do agree with you though, as it seems like everyone they bring back ends up being worse than they were originally.

Disagree on Cooler from an artistic point of view, say what you want about Janemba's character, but one cannot deny that he has some exceptional abilities. For instance, his pixelated teleportation is a standout skill. It seems clear to me that the choice of this villain was driven not by a desire to explore his character depth, but rather to showcase his unique abilities and visual appeal. Ultimately, it's about the stunning animation that he contributes, which is certainly worthy of awards. It appears that Akio Iyoku is eager to create more of those breathtaking visuals. But I was just picturing a different scenario with depth for him, but we'll see in the near future.

[Zephyr]

Part of the appeal of redoing these old characters, stories, and iconography was to see Toriyama give his own spin on them. With him gone, the speculation over what thing they're gonna suggest for him to remix seems kinda pointless now, given that they kinda can't suggest anything to him anymore.

[Koitsukai]

Without Akira-kun, it makes no sense for TOEI to re-interpret TOEI-created characters.

If we must keep going down the member berry lane, then just find a way to cram the existing movie characters into the MC. Leave them as they are, just tweak their introduction.

[JulieYBM]

Without Akira-kun, it makes no sense for TOEI to re-interpret TOEI-created characters.

If we must keep going down the member berry lane, then just find a way to cram the existing movie characters into the MC. Leave them as they are, just tweak their introduction.

'Toei' didn't create Janemba, Writer Koyama Takao and Director Yamauchi Shigeyasu did, over thirty years ago. These are real people who existed and crafted a film. You replace those two and you are going to get a different kind of film and a different kind of character, especially if you don't have a producer meddling in their vision to shill more merchandise and maintain a specific 'brand' identity.

[MasenkoHA]

The problem with Janemba is as far as movie villains go he ranks below Tullece, Coola, and Broli and maybe Garlic Jr. He’s also just a Majin Buu rehash.

He’s not quite Bojack Pirateman and what was that Kaiju’s name in movie 13 levels of “obligatory villain” but people definitely remember Hitler and Gogeta way more than Janemba

[JulieYBM]

The problem with Janemba is as far as movie villains go he ranks below Tullece, Coola, and Broli and maybe Garlic Jr. He’s also just a Majin Buu rehash.

He’s not quite Bojack Pirateman and what was that Kaiju’s name in movie 13 levels of “obligatory villain” but people definitely remember Hitler and Gogeta way more than Janemba

The only things that really make Janemba interesting are his sick-ass design and techniques. The idea of being a sort of fucked-up mutation from the reincarnation cycle is interesting, but these things still need something more to tie them all together into a character. A writer and director who want to play with those things and don't try too hard to replicate how Koyama or Toriyama write would be the only way to make an interesting story.

Which, I guess just goes back to what I'm always saying: let creators create lol

[Mr Baggins]

Without Akira-kun, it makes no sense for TOEI to re-interpret TOEI-created characters.

This.

The whole point of all these twists and re-interpretations of old non-canon material was specifically in seeing them through the lens of Dragon Ball's creator. I don't give a shit about Koyama's movies otherwise and find them pretty universally bad.

The best ideas from Movie 12 were already mined for Broly.

[Dragmobot12]

Without Akira-kun, it makes no sense for TOEI to re-interpret TOEI-created characters.

This.

The whole point of all these twists and re-interpretations of old non-canon material was specifically in seeing them through the lens of Dragon Ball's creator. I don't give a shit about Koyama's movies otherwise and find them pretty universally bad.

The best ideas from Movie 12 were already mined for Broly.

The way you say “non-canon,” it sounds like you’re talking about fan-fiction, which it isn’t. These are official studio products with full legal and commercial standing. Characters like Janemba alone have generated massive revenue through merch and games, arguably more than the anime budget itself, and he’s remained consistently present across Dragon Ball media. Whether Toriyama created them or not is kind of beside the point. Dragon Ball hasn’t been solely “Toriyama’s” for a long time honestly, not even when he was alive. Toei owns these properties, and all of it is source material they’re free to reinterpret or reintroduce however they want.

I’m not saying they will bring anyone back, but recognizable characters absolutely have a higher chance of returning in new ways because they make money. That’s just how the franchise operates.

Also, fans were losing their minds over that fake leak last year, so there’s clearly demand.

[Grimlock]

As long as they keep the design intact and all of his abilities, as well as coming up with new and interesting ones, it's fine. Janemba is the only movie character who should've seen a comeback anyway, as personality-wise, he is a blanket character, so it would be very interesting to see him with a full-fledged one. He's only missing that.

But I doubt they would keep the design as is (see how they massacred Bardock in that aspect), and I'm not feeling confident about how his techniques would be portrayed, so maybe we are better off leaving him in Movie 12, where he shines the most, and that's even without a personality, imagine if he had one.

[SupremeKai25]

Whether Toriyama created them or not is kind of beside the point. Dragon Ball hasn’t been solely “Toriyama’s” for a long time honestly, not even when he was alive. Toei owns these properties, and all of it is source material they’re free to reinterpret or reintroduce however they want.

Unfortunately there's a lot of hate for Toei writers in the fandom. I don't know why.

I think the old DBZ movies and the DBS Anime are as good or sometimes even better than Toriyama material.

I'm honestly pretty excited to see what kind of stories Toei will make next and how the franchise will evolve beyond Toriyama. Toriyama will never be forgotten, as the creator of the franchise; but every work of art ends up surpassing the artist. It's just how it is. You can't "gatekeep" art and that's a toxic mindset.

[Mr Baggins]

Whether Toriyama created them or not is kind of beside the point. Dragon Ball hasn’t been solely “Toriyama’s” for a long time honestly, not even when he was alive. Toei owns these properties, and all of it is source material they’re free to reinterpret or reintroduce however they want.

It's not at all "beside" the point.

1. Shueisha has ultimate authority and ownership over these properties, not Toei. Toei is commissioned to work on them, usually with some oversight from Shueisha. They don't just freely decide to animate Great Value Majin Buu or whoever and go on their merry way; that would be up to Shueisha and CCT.

2. All of these respun ideas were born from an executive approaching Toriyama and going "hey, would you be interested in giving your own spin on this". You can fret over my use of non-canon all you want, but at least while he was alive, new story initiatives – especially the kind of remixed initiative you describe – deferred strictly to him, post-revival. The point being what kind of story we'd get if the original author wrote it.

3. I don't care about any version of Dragon Ball that isn't Toriyama's Dragon Ball.

You might, and that's fine. Just don't expect every response to a topic you created to find said topic appealing or agreeable. I'm not interested in any of what you described.

[GurixDr34]

Cooler is definitely the one who should return because of his connection to Frieza and now with the Black Frieza storyline they could introduce him i would also like to see Baby again

[DragonBalllKaiHD]

Whether Toriyama created them or not is kind of beside the point. Dragon Ball hasn’t been solely “Toriyama’s” for a long time honestly, not even when he was alive. Toei owns these properties, and all of it is source material they’re free to reinterpret or reintroduce however they want.

It's not at all "beside" the point.

1. Shueisha has ultimate authority and ownership over these properties, not Toei. Toei is commissioned to work on them, usually with some oversight from Shueisha. They don't just freely decide to animate Great Value Majin Buu or whoever and go on their merry way; that would be up to Shueisha and CCT.

2. All of these respun ideas were born from an executive approaching Toriyama and going "hey, would you be interested in giving your own spin on this". You can fret over my use of non-canon all you want, but at least while he was alive, new story initiatives – especially the kind of remixed initiative you describe – deferred strictly to him, post-revival. The point being what kind of story we'd get if the original author wrote it.

3. I don't care about any version of Dragon Ball that isn't Toriyama's Dragon Ball.

You might, and that's fine. Just don't expect every response to a topic you created to find said topic appealing or agreeable. I'm not interested in any of what you described.

Dragon Ball is Dragon Ball, regardless if it was from Toriyama himself or Toei. If you want a pure Toriyama experience, there's manga. Otherwise, it's mostly Toei's stuff. The classic movies had very little to no input from the creator at all, and most of us watched the movies without thinking it's from him.

Plenty of IPs have been successful long after their creators' passing. An example of that on top off my head is James Bond films.

I think it's bit silly to strictly refuse to consume the newer products after Toriyama's passing. Dragon Ball will always be made years in and out.

[Mr Baggins]

Plenty of IPs have been successful long after their creators' passing. An example of that on top off my head is James Bond films.

...Luso Saiyan more than adequately responded to this the last time you brought it up, and so have I elsewhere. There's a reason I ignored your reply in the other thread.

If you're reading these responses and still believe the distinction being made is IP-related, you've grossly missed the point.

[GurixDr34]

I hope the next villain in Dragon Ball Super is something related to the Angels