Non-thread-worthy discussions

[Yellow Flower King]

With serialization becoming the default, I've actually grown to enjoy filler (or what people think is filler) more over the years. Plot is just the way we get to the story. It's not the end all be all.

Its going to become rarer and rarer as time goes on, sadly enough. I still want a re animated adaptation of the manga, but I am glad the first adaptation has "filler" in it.

funnily enough, as TV shows become more and more like films cut up into "episodes", there's going to be more actual padding/filler. So many times I've watched a docuseries or a limited series and thought "this could've been a 90-minute movie."

Here we are in the future and it's BRIGHT!


...*Sighs*

[Dragon Ball Ireland]

I don't like this trend of TV episodes becoming as long as movies, like the final episode of Stranger Things being 2+ hours. May as well just do a movie at that point rather than have an episode of a series masquerading as one.

[JulieYBM]

I don't like this trend of TV episodes becoming as long as movies, like the final episode of Stranger Things being 2+ hours. May as well just do a movie at that point rather than have an episode of a series masquerading as one.

Television episodes have been movie-length for decades. Star Trek has multiple 90-minute long episodes, for example.

The issue with Stranger Things is that it's a shitty fucking show with bad writing and directing lol

[ABED]

I don't like this trend of TV episodes becoming as long as movies, like the final episode of Stranger Things being 2+ hours. May as well just do a movie at that point rather than have an episode of a series masquerading as one.

Television episodes have been movie-length for decades. Star Trek has multiple 90-minute long episodes, for example.

The issue with Stranger Things is that it's a shitty fucking show with bad writing and directing lol

But they are written with the knowledge they'll be broken in two in subsequent airings and are structured as such.

[TechExpert2021]

I don't like this trend of TV episodes becoming as long as movies, like the final episode of Stranger Things being 2+ hours. May as well just do a movie at that point rather than have an episode of a series masquerading as one.

Same here. But AFAIK, only big-budget live-action TV series and streaming original series have movie-length episodes, as either I don't see the same thing applied to animated TV series (including anime), or it's rare for animated TV series to have movie-length episodes. I could be wrong, though.

[JulieYBM]

I don't like this trend of TV episodes becoming as long as movies, like the final episode of Stranger Things being 2+ hours. May as well just do a movie at that point rather than have an episode of a series masquerading as one.

Television episodes have been movie-length for decades. Star Trek has multiple 90-minute long episodes, for example.

The issue with Stranger Things is that it's a shitty fucking show with bad writing and directing lol

But they are written with the knowledge they'll be broken in two in subsequent airings and are structured as such.

In re-airings, yeah, but that doesn't necessarily mean that they weren't ideally made to be seen together as a single episode. It's why home video releases usually use the proper 90-minute master.

It's really funny that this has come up, since Shaddy and me were watching the Twin Peaks Pilot this morning lol. That thing is 94 minutes long without commercials or the International Cuts's non-canon scenes.

[ABED]

Television episodes have been movie-length for decades. Star Trek has multiple 90-minute long episodes, for example.

The issue with Stranger Things is that it's a shitty fucking show with bad writing and directing lol

But they are written with the knowledge they'll be broken in two in subsequent airings and are structured as such.

In re-airings, yeah, but that doesn't necessarily mean that they weren't ideally made to be seen together as a single episode. It's why home video releases usually use the proper 90-minute master.

It's really funny that this has come up, since Shaddy and me were watching the Twin Peaks Pilot this morning lol. That think is 94 minutes long without commercials or the International Cuts's non-canon scenes.

I get what you mean, but when you watch those episodes at home, you'll see there's a clean break, even if it's just a cliffhanger that works as an act break or cliffhanger for the next episode. It's also why many Pilots/finales that are double length are also listed as 2 episodes on the DVDs and that's even if they play as one on the home video releases. Regardless, shows meant to air on either cable or broadcast even if longer tended to have a far greater degree of structure. If I was a betting man, I'd wager that the reason so many episodes are getting longer instead of just breaking them into smaller units is due to contractual and pay issues. Some of these episodes should be 2, but even if it's the same amount of screen time, people would have to be paid for 2 instead of 1. It's conjecture, but I don't think I'm going out on a limb.

[JulieYBM]

But they are written with the knowledge they'll be broken in two in subsequent airings and are structured as such.

In re-airings, yeah, but that doesn't necessarily mean that they weren't ideally made to be seen together as a single episode. It's why home video releases usually use the proper 90-minute master.

It's really funny that this has come up, since Shaddy and me were watching the Twin Peaks Pilot this morning lol. That think is 94 minutes long without commercials or the International Cuts's non-canon scenes.

I get what you mean, but when you watch those episodes at home, you'll see there's a clean break, even if it's just a cliffhanger that works as an act break or cliffhanger for the next episode. It's also why many Pilots/finales that are double length are also listed as 2 episodes on the DVDs and that's even if they play as one on the home video releases. Regardless, shows meant to air on either cable or broadcast even if longer tended to have a far greater degree of structure. If I was a betting man, I'd wager that the reason so many episodes are getting longer instead of just breaking them into smaller units is due to contractual and pay issues. Some of these episodes should be 2, but even if it's the same amount of screen time, people would have to be paid for 2 instead of 1. It's conjecture, but I don't think I'm going out on a limb.

Given how the unions are not happy about shows since the move to streaming, I absolutely would not be surprised if there was a move from executives to push for less episodes and more runtime so as to avoid paying out.

Creatively-speaking, though, I want to stress that the issue with these longer episodes is really down to bad production practices, rather than the length itself. The act structure of a series like, say, Star Trek of old or LOST is a wonderful tool, but not necessarily one that needs to be followed precisely.

The reason a two hour episode of Stranger Things drags is because the writing and characterizations is so sparse. Characters just spin their wheels for the entire series because The Duffer Bros don't have densely written arcs for the characters. A proper writer's room could help mitigate that, but Stranger Things is part of the new wave of 'auteur television', which doesn't rely on the salaried writer's room of old (Trek, LOST, older series I haven't watched).

I go back to it a lot, but the first episode of Oshi no Ko is 82 minutes without commercials and adapted the entire first volume of the comic, ten chapters, while still cutting bits of the story out to reframe the story. It's a wildly intriguing establishing episode and when more Dragon Ball television is inevitably made, I'd love to see some experimentation with episode lengths. Daima Episode #1 is already the longest episode of the franchise, but I think that thirty-two minutes could have been used more wisely (the Gokuu and Vegeta sparring scenes are awful and add nothing and the party scenes themselves were really boring comparedto the Gomah scenes).

The Fate series and Re:Zero also do expanded runtimes quite successfully.

[Dragon Ball Ireland]

I don't like this trend of TV episodes becoming as long as movies, like the final episode of Stranger Things being 2+ hours. May as well just do a movie at that point rather than have an episode of a series masquerading as one.

Television episodes have been movie-length for decades. Star Trek has multiple 90-minute long episodes, for example.

I've only seen the original series and The Next Generation and every episode was around 45 minutes. The latter has a lot more two parters, but they're two episodes not one movie length episode, which I like as cliffhangers are good for keeping viewers excited for whats to come.

[super michael]

There are TV network that are against long running anime, CN they won't allow cartoon to be 20 minutes long. Even when the animator request for special episode, CN will just deny it.
I know CN doesn't have any anime, they removed all the anime from their channel.

CN now isn't anything like in the 90s and 2000s when they had the best anime and cartoons available.

[JulieYBM]

I don't like this trend of TV episodes becoming as long as movies, like the final episode of Stranger Things being 2+ hours. May as well just do a movie at that point rather than have an episode of a series masquerading as one.

Television episodes have been movie-length for decades. Star Trek has multiple 90-minute long episodes, for example.

I've only seen the original series and The Next Generation and every episode was around 45 minutes. The latter has a lot more two parters, but they're two episodes not one movie length episode, which I like as cliffhangers are good for keeping viewers excited for whats to come.

The TNG Pilot is 90 minutes long. The early scenes are 48 minutes long (down from 50 minutes for TOS). The series finale is also 90 minutes long (or thereabouts). Similarly, DS9's Pilot, Season 4 Episode 1, and series finale are all 90 minutes.

I could go on and on. LOST did similar things, regularly doing double-length episodes meant to be reviewed as such. The series finale is over 100 minutes long, which I remember being shocked by back in 2010 because of how no other series that I knew of doing an episode so long that it required a chunk of a third hour's timeslot to finish.

Being broken down for future airings does not mean that that is the episode's true form or whatever. These episodes are planned as double-length and have the same writers and directors. They're different from two-parters.

[super michael]

Television episodes have been movie-length for decades. Star Trek has multiple 90-minute long episodes, for example.

I've only seen the original series and The Next Generation and every episode was around 45 minutes. The latter has a lot more two parters, but they're two episodes not one movie length episode, which I like as cliffhangers are good for keeping viewers excited for whats to come.

The TNG Pilot is 90 minutes long. The early scenes are 48 minutes long (down from 50 minutes for TOS). The series finale is also 90 minutes long (or thereabouts). Similarly, DS9's Pilot, Season 4 Episode 1, and series finale are all 90 minutes.

I could go on and on. LOST did similar things, regularly doing double-length episodes meant to be reviewed as such. The series finale is over 100 minutes long, which I remember being shocked by back in 2010 because of how no other series that I knew of doing an episode so long that it required a chunk of a third hour's timeslot to finish.

Being broken down for future airings does not mean that that is the episode's true form or whatever. These episodes are planned as double-length and have the same writers and directors. They're different from two-parters.

There is no doubt that TV series can be 90 minutes long, but when it comes to cartoons and anime some network are against it being 20 minutes long. Some networks the max per episode is 10 minutes long with no exception. Although the only one against 20+ minutes cartoon is CN, I don't know any other network that are strict with their 10 minutes policy.

I assume this is an issue with outside Japan the time limit.

[ZeroNeonix]

With serialization becoming the default, I've actually grown to enjoy filler (or what people think is filler) more over the years. Plot is just the way we get to the story. It's not the end all be all.

For me, it depends on what the filler is about. The Garlic Junior stuff was kind of a drag, but the slice of life stuff with Gohan adapting to life in school was genuinely entertaining. Moreso than the rest of the Buu saga, IMO.

[ABED]

With serialization becoming the default, I've actually grown to enjoy filler (or what people think is filler) more over the years. Plot is just the way we get to the story. It's not the end all be all.

For me, it depends on what the filler is about. The Garlic Junior stuff was kind of a drag, but the slice of life stuff with Gohan adapting to life in school was genuinely entertaining. Moreso than the rest of the Buu saga, IMO.

I meant as a general rule I have nothing against it and I've learned to embrace it. Obviously like anything else, it's dependent on execution. Don't love the Garlic Jr. arc as a whole, but there are lots of things I do like about it. My favorite episode in the "Garlic Jr. arc" is the one where Kuririn tries to get the big pearl but ends up breaking up with Marron.While overall I don't love the Fake Namek episodes, I enjoy elements such as the acid lake stuff.

[Toxin45]

Garlic junior haven’t heard that name in a while

[ZeroNeonix]

Garlic junior haven’t heard that name in a while

Dumbass gets immortality, literally can't lose. Gets tired of getting hit, so he opens up a portal to a dimension from which there is no escape. Literally, his own weakness, and he gives it to them. Twice. lol

[MasenkoHA]

With serialization becoming the default, I've actually grown to enjoy filler (or what people think is filler) more over the years. Plot is just the way we get to the story. It's not the end all be all.

For me, it depends on what the filler is about. The Garlic Junior stuff was kind of a drag, but the slice of life stuff with Gohan adapting to life in school was genuinely entertaining. Moreso than the rest of the Buu saga, IMO.

I meant as a general rule I have nothing against it and I've learned to embrace it. Obviously like anything else, it's dependent on execution. Don't love the Garlic Jr. arc as a whole, but there are lots of things I do like about it. My favorite episode in the "Garlic Jr. arc" is the one where Kuririn tries to get the big pearl but ends up breaking up with Marron.While overall I don't love the Fake Namek episodes, I enjoy elements such as the acid lake stuff.

I think I would have liked Fake Namek better if it wasn’t 3 episodes and also tied to the canon stuff. You can’t really skip those episodes because Vegeta recovering at the medical bay and finding out about Freeza going after the dragon balls are in those episodes and the last episode has the trio making it to actual Namek.


Speaking of, I wish Toei had done more stuff with the voyage to Namek beyond the space orphans and fake Namek episodes. Feels like they ended up paying for not spacing themselves out further from the manga iwith the Goku vs Freeza fight. Perhaps they didn’t anticipate Toriyama keeping everyone on Namek for as long as he did.

[Scsigs]

I think I would have liked Fake Namek better if it wasn’t 3 episodes and also tied to the canon stuff. You can’t really skip those episodes because Vegeta recovering at the medical bay and finding out about Freeza going after the dragon balls are in those episodes and the last episode has the trio making it to actual Namek.

Speaking of, I wish Toei had done more stuff with the voyage to Namek beyond the space orphans and fake Namek episodes. Feels like they ended up paying for not spacing themselves out further from the manga with the Goku vs Freeza fight. Perhaps they didn’t anticipate Toriyama keeping everyone on Namek for as long as he did.

The curse of the longrunning anime based on a manga. I'm assuming this type of shit is why Toei's switching to a seasonal format with One Piece & Studio Periot waited way too damn long to do the last arc of the Bleach manga. I think doing that is smart because it'll take less episodes to adapt an arc, the manga can get farther ahead with material, they can put more of a budget, time, & manpower into producing episodes, & not have to produce filler. Bleach got especially egregious with its filler, of which they went with doing smaller arcs rather than strings of episodes. Apparently, even the Japanese Blu-Rays for the series don't have the filler episodes. I specifically remember a filler in the middle of the 2nd or 3rd manga arc the anime adapted had the narrator break the 4th wall & just tell the audience it was filler (not with those specific words, but that's what the words meant), so I was just like, "Ok," & just looked up a guide & skipped to the next episode that adapted the manga again because I didn't give a flying fuck about it. Otherwise, Bleach generally has good pacing in the anime adaptation.
I think this is also where Kai benefited from the recut. The fact that they had to add so much filler later on to the arc that literally added up to nothing necessitated it.

[JulieYBM]

I think I would have liked Fake Namek better if it wasn’t 3 episodes and also tied to the canon stuff. You can’t really skip those episodes because Vegeta recovering at the medical bay and finding out about Freeza going after the dragon balls are in those episodes and the last episode has the trio making it to actual Namek.

Speaking of, I wish Toei had done more stuff with the voyage to Namek beyond the space orphans and fake Namek episodes. Feels like they ended up paying for not spacing themselves out further from the manga with the Goku vs Freeza fight. Perhaps they didn’t anticipate Toriyama keeping everyone on Namek for as long as he did.

The curse of the longrunning anime based on a manga. I'm assuming this type of shit is why Toei's switching to a seasonal format with One Piece & Studio Periot waited way too damn long to do the last arc of the Bleach manga. I think doing that is smart because it'll take less episodes to adapt an arc, the manga can get farther ahead with material, they can put more of a budget, time, & manpower into producing episodes, & not have to produce filler. Bleach got especially egregious with its filler, of which they went with doing smaller arcs rather than strings of episodes. Apparently, even the Japanese Blu-Rays for the series don't have the filler episodes. I specifically remember a filler in the middle of the 2nd or 3rd manga arc the anime adapted had the narrator break the 4th wall & just tell the audience it was filler (not with those specific words, but that's what the words meant), so I was just like, "Ok," & just looked up a guide & skipped to the next episode that adapted the manga again because I didn't give a flying fuck about it. Otherwise, Bleach generally has good pacing in the anime adaptation.
I think this is also where Kai benefited from the recut. The fact that they had to add so much filler later on to the arc that literally added up to nothing necessitated it.

The Japanese Blu-rays don't have the anime-original arcs? That fucking sucks, those arcs are a lot of fun and interesting side stories. The closest thing long-running anime have gotten to perfecting the formula, considering the challenges they face.

[Scsigs]

The Japanese Blu-rays don't have the anime-original arcs? That fucking sucks, those arcs are a lot of fun and interesting side stories. The closest thing long-running anime have gotten to perfecting the formula, considering the challenges they face.

From what I know, they don't.
I don't know. I watched the Bount Arc. It was neither fun nor interesting. The quality dip from the previous manga material was pretty steep & I didn't enjoy a lot of it. If I were to rewatch the earlier stuff, I'd skip it & I wouldn't watch any of the other filler arcs. The 3 characters from that arc that they kept around were also quietly removed from the next arc within a few episodes & forgotten about because they didn't matter whatsoever despite dropping them into manga scenes they weren't in originally. I'm not interested in filler that adds literally nothing to the ongoing story & even the anime writers tell you in the material itself is filler &, thus, not important whatsoever.