GT treating the Z movies as having happened

[90sDBZ]

This has always intrigued me. Supposedly GT takes place in a universe were several (maybe even all) of the Z movies somehow actually happened, along with Z itself.

There's a bunch of references throughout GT's run. Some are obvious, while others are more subtle. Here's the ones I can think of;

-Cooler showing up with the other villains in the Super 17 arc

-Goku using Dragon Fist multiple times

-Trunks having the sword Tapion gave him in the opening

-Vegeta already knowing the Fusion dance well enough to perform it first try. (You could argue he knew it from seeing Goten and Trunks from the afterlife in the Buu arc, but the fact he's able to execute it perfectly on the first try makes me think Movie 12 happened).

-Gogeta repeating the line "I am neither Goku nor Vegeta..". And this is a stretch, but the fact they instantly know their name is Gogeta (but I guess they did in Movie 12 too, so it probably doesn't mean much).

-The trope of Goku's friends giving him energy for a power up. This happened in both Movie 4 and 8, and is reused against Baby and Syn Shenron.

-Trunks knowing kamehameha (he did it in Movie 11).

I know it makes zero sense for all these stories to coexist, but it's fun to think about. What other references does GT make to the Z movies?

[Grimlock]

Nothing new here. Dragon Ball GT and the movies coexisting lacks only a statement, because if we go by everything else, be it direct references or indirect ones, it is already known. Dragon Ball Heroes supports that idea, through suspiciously placing movie villains behind a GT Goku card, as well as Xeno Goku, who is GT Goku just older, recognizing the movie villains.

-Vegeta already knowing the Fusion dance well enough to perform it first try. (You could argue he knew it from seeing Goten and Trunks from the afterlife in the Buu arc, but the fact he's able to execute it perfectly on the first try makes me think Movie 12 happened).

I don't think one could argue that thanks to Dragon Ball Super Broly. That Vegeta also saw Goten and Trunks performing and still had Goku and Piccolo to teach him. So the only possible explanation is that, indeed, Movie 12 happened.

[SSJ4Goku]

Toei just felt like doing whatever they wanted to...
As you stated, they somehow occur within' the same continuity... this just shows how off-centre placed the timeline is.

I would lean into Vegeta just witnessing the Fusion Dance instead of Movie 12.
Firstly, he was dead after the Final Explosion, and with a lack of Majin Buu in the movie, I just assumed that Gotenks defeated Buu.
I just think that Vegeta in Movie 12 just got reincarnated, but I shouldn't think about it too much.

[Xeogran]

Well, Z treated Garlic Jr's movie as it happened, despite it making no sense for the timeline.
So I think GT just continued on what Z started. They just knew that people like references to movie content.
Heck, even Kakarot has Dragon Fist everywhere, and that game tried to treat itself as some additional canon material at first.

[ABED]

Toei made GT and its DBZ filler canon. It's kinda neat.

[MasenkoHA]

In Z Hire Dragon shows up in the Garlic Jr and the driving school episode and I think gets referenced by Goten in the Great Saiyaman arc. Also just the Garlic Jr arc happening at all with Maron even showing up in the Android saga .

I think Toei just doesn’t have reservations about using their own material when they don’t have the manga to follow.

[Dragon Ball Ireland]

I don't think TOEI necessarily thought about how elements of the movies would theoretically fit into the Z filler and GT, as MasenkoHa said it was just a case of the writers having more freedom because they weren't adapting a manga. Seeing things like Cooler being amongst the villains who escape from Hell are nice easter eggs for fans that watched all the movies though.

[90sDBZ]

Another thing I thought of is the Sacred Water being re-used. It's used to cure the earthlings from Garlic Jr's Black Water mist, and again to remove Baby's eggs.

Japanese audiences who watched the original run must have picked up on all this stuff as it came out. English speaking territories got a lot of the movies much later, with some not releasing until after GT had concluded.

I remember Goku using Dragon Fist on Super 17 and wondering how he learned that technique. I didn't see Movie 13 until years later (although even that doesn't explain the move).

[Kenji]

As far as I'm concerned, they were always "canon" in the anime adaptation continuity.
Z treating the Garlic Jr. movie as having happened, and Toei bringing in small elements from the now decanonized (if you can say that) Bardock special and the other Z movies was always a thing they were doing. And yes, it's a complete mess and you can argue that the movies don't fit with the manga's timeline, but at the same time, Toriyama started doing the exact same thing with Super and Daima, so... eh!

[WittyUsername]

Toei never seemed to think too hard about continuity. From their perspective, all the movies are “canon” to the anime whenever it’s convenient.

Even the Super era has indulged in that mindset to a degree, like when Kuririn claimed that Goku can’t use the Genki Dama as a Super Saiyan because he doesn’t have a calm heart in that form. Or how Kid Vegeta was depicted with his anime-only bangs in his Beerus flashback. Hell, they even seemed to reference Maron at some point.

[Zebra]

Trunks having the sword Tapion gave him in the opening

It's not the same sword. Trunks's sword in GT's opening (as well as Final Bout's) has a golden hilt; Tapion's doesn't.

[JulieYBM]

In Z Hire Dragon shows up in the Garlic Jr and the driving school episode and I think gets referenced by Goten in the Great Saiyaman arc. Also just the Garlic Jr arc happening at all with Maron even showing up in the Android saga .

I think Toei just doesn’t have reservations about using their own material when they don’t have the manga to follow.

Yeah, like, who is going to mind? The kids will just ve happy to see a character that is either new or from the movies to them.

The biggest shame is that GT didn't lean into this more and do a series of big character interactions.

[MasenkoHA]

In Z Hire Dragon shows up in the Garlic Jr and the driving school episode and I think gets referenced by Goten in the Great Saiyaman arc. Also just the Garlic Jr arc happening at all with Maron even showing up in the Android saga .

I think Toei just doesn’t have reservations about using their own material when they don’t have the manga to follow.

Yeah, like, who is going to mind? The kids will just ve happy to see a character that is either new or from the movies to them.

The biggest shame is that GT didn't lean into this more and do a series of big character interactions.

Exactly. There is no possible way to fit the third Z movie at all. Not even in a “if you just ignore this part and this part “ way when fans place the first movie between Dragon Ball and Dragon Ball Z. But kids know who Hire Dragon is why not include him in a story arc or episode that’s independent from the manga? Especially in a series of episodes where Gohan is currently leading and you can give him his own companion equivalent to Kinto’un

[Kenji]

I feel more fans should adopt that mindset.
"Oh, this is not canon, this doesn't fit with the story, this-"

OK, but who cares? Just try to enjoy things as they are.
Not saying you should think the Z movies or GT are any good, I certainly don't, but at least try to enjoy what you're watching rather than wallowing in how valid a piece of fiction is.

[The Dark Knight]

The way I see it is that Goku and his friends fought all these villains, but the events played out a bit differently to fit the continuity of the main story. For example, the events of Lord Slug happened, just after Goku returned from Namek, and that Goku used his regular Ssj form instead of the fake one. Fusion Reborn happened, but it happened after the defeat of Kid Buu and Goku and Vegeta were alive.

[JulieYBM]

The big problem with nerds—especially the online sort—is that they're inflexible. They don't know how to roll with the punches. They approach everything with the same light switches flipped on, rather than learning when to flip a switch off and just roll with something because they need to put things 'making sense' above 'fun' or viewing the series from an outside perspective.

Are things inconsistent? Sure, yeah, whatever. It's a decades-old cartoon franchise made not for home video, but for weekly consumption and then tossing out. Not everybody keeps their old, shitty TV Guides after the week is over, right? It's the same way with these long-running anime, so don't try to apply the same logic to them as shorter anime with prestige status attributed to them.

[Scsigs]

Yeah, this is why GT makes sense to be an alternate timeline to even the Z anime. The fact that the writers just decided some of the Z movies were canon, as well as the Garlic Jr. arc filler, makes it incompatible with the manga's version of events, but also some of the movies just outright contradict events from both Z & manga just makes it also incompatible with Z. I assume it's more of a case where "Some version of the movie events happened in this timeline," but even that just proves my point. I mean, hell, the Baby arc is spawned from the filler backstory Toriyama gave the anime staff to base filler episodes on which Toriyama hasn't really touched on much in his works for the series, so I just rationalize it as an alternate timeline. It's the only way my brain can square it away.

[Kid Buu]

When did Trunks do the kamehameha? Was it when they killed General Rildo?

[Koitsukai]

It's funny because Toei chose to keep their Precious (Broly) out of the equation in GT, probably to save face, since he was coming back only to get oneshot back to hell.

That said, they could’ve simply made him more than just fodder like the rest. Or maybe, since the Z movies contradict not only the main series but even each other, Broly exists in a different timeline altogether, but I doubt they put that much thought into such a minute matter. More likely, Broly was missing simply so he wouldn’t be disserviced.

Janemba does not exist anymore and Hirudegan... probably too distracting visually to be part of the arc, IDK.

I still don't know why Baby didn't come back.

[JulieYBM]

It's funny because Toei chose to keep their Precious (Broly) out of the equation in GT, probably to save face, since he was coming back only to get oneshot back to hell.

That said, they could’ve simply made him more than just fodder like the rest. Or maybe, since the Z movies contradict not only the main series but even each other, Broly exists in a different timeline altogether, but I doubt they put that much thought into such a minute matter. More likely, Broly was missing simply so he wouldn’t be disserviced.

Janemba does not exist anymore and Hirudegan... probably too distracting visually to be part of the arc, IDK.

I still don't know why Baby didn't come back.

Koyama Takao didn't work on Dragon Ball GT, which is probably why Broly did not appear. Koyama is the reason why Broly has three movies: he couldn't think of other characters to serve as antagonists.