GT treating the Z movies as having happened

[Scsigs]

The biggest issue is the quality of the fights. If nothing else changed besides that, GT would be held in much higher regard. It's not because Goku supposedly become the focus. He was always the main character. That isn't where the problems are stemming from.

I agree on the quality of the fights, but I ultimately think it's both, tbh. Think about it for a second. The fight against Freeza ultimately has Goku & him square off for the final battle, but beforehand, Vegeta, Gohan, Krillin, & Piccolo all fought him in his previous forms. They at least got something to do & it properly built how much trouble Freeza was. A lot of the fights are just Goku doing things for way too long without a lot of anything going on. Coupled with the fact that Goku mostly resorts to things like a lot of Kamehamehas or nothing too inventive. A lot of the fights have no real flow or imagination thrown into them, whether it be the choreography or the fact that Goku's the only one doing anything in them.

[ABED]

The biggest issue is the quality of the fights. If nothing else changed besides that, GT would be held in much higher regard. It's not because Goku supposedly become the focus. He was always the main character. That isn't where the problems are stemming from.

I agree on the quality of the fights, but I ultimately think it's both, tbh. Think about it for a second. The fight against Freeza ultimately has Goku & him square off for the final battle, but beforehand, Vegeta, Gohan, Krillin, & Piccolo all fought him in his previous forms. They at least got something to do & it properly built how much trouble Freeza was. A lot of the fights are just Goku doing things for way too long without a lot of anything going on. Coupled with the fact that Goku mostly resorts to things like a lot of Kamehamehas or nothing too inventive. A lot of the fights have no real flow or imagination thrown into them, whether it be the choreography or the fact that Goku's the only one doing anything in them.

That something was futily fight and buy time as Goku heals up. None of the fights in GT are nearly as long, which is a great benefit. Even if it were just Goku, a handful of episodes means one fighter can carry the weight of it. A fight the length of the Freeza fight requires more just to break up the sheer sameness.

[super michael]

You need to stop paying attention to the execution and pay attention to the message.

The message is hollow when the execution is terrible.

The message of Dragon Ball was always that you should always improve on yourself, and that anybody can be that strong if they work hard for it.

Yet so many characters remain weak despite having trained so much (i.e Tenshinhan), so it's a pretty pretentious message if anything.

The message is more, "anyone can be strong if they're a Saiyan, or just plain Gokuu".

Tenshinhan and the other humans on Kaio Planet gained a lot of power from training, while Kuririn gained a lot of power from getting his potential unlocked. However the problem is that the humans no longer trained hard after the Namek Saga. The humans don't dare train with anyone stronger and more skill than themselves. No one dared to train with Goku, Piccolo and Gohan an example.
No human dared to train in the ROSAT and Gravity Chamber.

However I don't see any Saiyan from planet Vegeta being able to stall Semi-Perfect Cell, so the human has that feat. The Saiyans from planet Vegeta are a joke compared to the Saiyans, Namekian and humans on earth.

[Zebra]

As Torishima explained, there's nothing to learn from Dragon Ball as it's a work without substance. There's no real message behind it.

Yet so many characters remain weak despite having trained so much (i.e Tenshinhan), so it's a pretty pretentious message if anything. The message is more, "anyone can be strong if they're a Saiyan, or just plain Gokuu".

This was never the case in the original manga. The Saiyans may have had an advantage later on, but despite that advantage, characters like Tien and especially Piccolo still got to shine alongside them.

Tenshinhan was only relevant for one arc. After Gokuu drinks the Choushinsui, Tenshinhan never catches up with him.

Piccolo would briefly catch up with Gokuu only to be surpassed shortly after. By the Boo arc, he's completely left in the dust.

I'm criticizing the writing decisions to not have Pan receive focus and growth. The in-universe depiction of Pan reflecting said poor writing is irrelevant. If Pan isn't strong enough...you write her to become strong.

There's no reason to make her strong when all the other side characters are fodder, though.

You're watching the wrong series if you want Dragon Ball to have strong female fighters.

You know, these people aren’t real. The so called lack of passion comes from the writers, not something inherent to the real-life characters the saiyans are based on. You simply have to choose to give a character passion.
With Pan in particular, we’re talking about a pretty much brand new character who clearly showed passion in EoZ. The "she had no fighting passion" argument doesn't work with her, at all.

It isn't inherited either, the passion, there's no passion gene. The main thing to inherit in this show is the power, which all of the hybrids got already.

Saiyans are biologically inclined to enjoy fighting. Gokuu and Vegeeta's love for it definitely comes from their genes.

When you look at how none of the half Saiyans (Gohan, Goten, Trunks, and Bra) care much for fighting, there's no reason to think a quarter Saiyan like Pan will care much for it, either.

In-universe, Pan inherited the potential to become strong just like the half Saiyans did. But because she lacks passion for fighting, she wasn't going to realize that potential. You suggest that the writers could've given her passion anyway, but they were obviously never going to do that. They intended for only pure blooded Saiyans to really enjoy fighting, for mixed breeds to be slackers, and for Gokuu to be the only character who matters.

[JulieYBM]

There's no reason to make her strong when all the other side characters are fodder, though.

You're watching the wrong series if you want Dragon Ball to have strong female fighters.

The reason to make Pan strong is because there is a story being told and an arc for Pan to have. That's the point. That's how writing works. People criticize how Dragon Ball depicts its female characters because Toriyama and other creative people involved in the franchise have a history of portraying them poorly.

Dragon Ball Super is literally an improvement on depicting female characters with Caulifla and Kale. A work can have strong female fighters who have their own character arcs, just like a work can have characters of any gender with good character arcs. It's been done and should continue to be done in the future.

[Zebra]

There's no reason to make her strong when all the other side characters are fodder, though.

You're watching the wrong series if you want Dragon Ball to have strong female fighters.

The reason to make Pan strong is because there is a story being told and an arc for Pan to have. That's the point.

Dragon Ball isn't her story. It's Gokuu's, and Toei deliberately made him get all the spotlight in GT. It's lame, but it's redundant to complain about Pan specifically when all the other side characters sucked.

People criticize how Dragon Ball depicts its female characters because Toriyama and other creative people involved in the franchise have a history of portraying them poorly.

Why be surprised when GT portrays them poorly, then? It's par the course.

Dragon Ball Super is literally an improvement on depicting female characters with Caulifla and Kale.

They were only one-off characters.

[super michael]

As Torishima explained, there's nothing to learn from Dragon Ball as it's a work without substance. There's no real message behind it.

In the manga this a conversation that happened:

Vegeta - You should be honored, you know...... A bottom-tier boy like you hardly ever gets a chance to play with an elite warrior like me........ We Saiyan are tested for combat aptitude soon after we're born... The pitiful babies with low battle-numbers are shipped off to a planet with no serious opponents... Just like you were.......
Goku - If that's how I got to earth... I am grateful. On this planet we know that even the lowest-born can outdo the elite if they work hard enough.

That is a good lesson anyone can learn.

Master Roshi trained his student by doing physical training, studying since their mind needs to be strong not just their body and resting. Here is a quote "Move well, study well, play well, eat well, rest well -- That is the turtle master way!".

Tenshinhan was only relevant for one arc. After Gokuu drinks the Choushinsui, Tenshinhan never catches up with him.

Piccolo would briefly catch up with Gokuu only to be surpassed shortly after. By the Boo arc, he's completely left in the dust.

Tenshinhan was helpful in stalling Cell, he managed to stall long enough for C18 to get away and Vegeta fight Cell. If Vegeta was smart then Cell would have been killed thanks to both Tenshinhan and Vegeta.
Tenshinhan was able to save Mr Satan and Dende, who were important in saving the universe from Kid Buu.

Kuririn was able to save him, Gohan and Dende thanks to his quick thinking in using the Taiyoken. Dodoria failed to kill them.
It was thanks to Kuririn that Android 16 was able to help in the Cell Games, without him then Gohan wouldn't have unlocked SSJ2.

Yajirobe was able to cut Vegeta tail, without him then they would have needed to fight Oozaru Vegeta. I doubt Oozaru Gohan would beat Oozaru Vegeta.

Mister Satan he got Android 16 head to Gohan, which helped Gohan. He became friends with Majin Buu, if it wasn't for the evil humans, then the Buu Saga would have got resolved there.
Mister Satan convinced the humans to donate their ki to Goku Genki Dama.



I almost forgot Tenshinhan creating a hole in the 23rd Martial Art Tournament helped many survive Piccolo explosion.

There's no reason to make her strong when all the other side characters are fodder, though.

You're watching the wrong series if you want Dragon Ball to have strong female fighters.

Pan father is Gohan, who has both SSJ2 and Ultimate form unlocked. That should give Pan a lot of potential. Here are some potential an example:

Vegeta > King Vegeta
Goku > Bardock
Gohan > Goku
Goten > Goku
Trunks > Vegeta

Gohan age 9 he gained SSJ and SSJ2. Goku only had his base form at the time.
Goten age 7 or before he gained SSJ. Goku only had SSJ form at the time.
Trunks age 8 or before he gained SSJ. Vegeta only had SSJ form at the time.

The reason why Pan didn't have SSJ or any form is because the writers wanted Pan to be the damsel in distress. There is no other reason. The only fighter to gain new forms in GT are Goku and Vegeta temporary since he lost his tail. Goten, Trunks and Gohan didn't gain any new form and Gotenks didn't appear at all.

Saiyans are biologically inclined to enjoy fighting. Gokuu and Vegeeta's love for it definitely comes from their genes.

When you look at how none of the half Saiyans (Gohan, Goten, Trunks, and Bra) care much for fighting, there's no reason to think a quarter Saiyan like Pan will care much for it, either.

In-universe, Pan inherited the potential to become strong just like the half Saiyans did. But because she lacks passion for fighting, she wasn't going to realize that potential. You suggest that the writers could've given her passion anyway, but they were obviously never going to do that. They intended for only pure blooded Saiyans to really enjoy fighting, for mixed breeds to be slackers, and for Gokuu to be the only character who matters.

We never saw Pan get bored of fighting. As for Goten we know why he became a slacker, he cared more about dating than training. As for Trunks we don't know his reason. Bra she was never a fighter in the first place.
Gohan he cared more about studying than training since the first episode that he appeared. When there was peace he would stop training. Gohan didn't train after returning from Namek and he didn't train after Cell defeat, he only trained because he had to.

The reason to make Pan strong is because there is a story being told and an arc for Pan to have. That's the point. That's how writing works. People criticize how Dragon Ball depicts its female characters because Toriyama and other creative people involved in the franchise have a history of portraying them poorly.

Dragon Ball Super is literally an improvement on depicting female characters with Caulifla and Kale. A work can have strong female fighters who have their own character arcs, just like a work can have characters of any gender with good character arcs. It's been done and should continue to be done in the future.

Seeing Caulifla use her brains to understand how Super Saiyan transformation works instead of relying on rage was good. She wanted to understand by how it feels and were she should focus her ki in her body, that is what a smart fighter does. Caulifla supporting Kale is what helped her gained control of herself, which is another excellent writing.


DBS Super Hero Pan is written really good, he is really into fighting and training, plus it helps that Piccolo is teaching her.
It is too bad that GT Pan they made her a weakling, she is weaker than all the Z fighters. I wanted to see her gain a lot of power and gain transformation.



I will say DBS handheld some character bad, the characters that comes to my mind are Goten, Trunks and Buu either sleeping or forbidden.

[JulieYBM]

Dragon Ball isn't her story. It's Gokuu's, and Toei deliberately made him get all the spotlight in GT. It's lame, but it's redundant to complain about Pan specifically when all the other side characters sucked.

Pan is a co-lead of Dragon Ball GT and her character being underserviced is worthy of being criticized.

Why be surprised when GT portrays them poorly, then? It's par the course.

Nobody is 'surprised'. I am being critical of how Dragon Ball in general and Dragon Ball GT specifically poorly write Pan and these criticisms stand for a majority of other depictions of female characters throughout the franchise.

They were only one-off characters.

Caulifla and Kale are characters who appear in numerous episodes of a serialized storyline that spanned a year. They had character arcs that had the bare minimum amount of development placed into them and they stand as a model that other Dragon Ball projects can and should learn from.

[Scsigs]

If we're really bringing up how Pan was treated in GT, I'm of the opinion that she started off ok, definitely a decently entertaining personality, but she then becomes a bully to Giru & is inconsistent in some of her personality traits after the opening few episodes. What doesn't help is that she's Goku's granddaughter & Gohan's daughter, yet doesn't noticeably get more powerful or do much that actually affects what's going in. She tries, but never succeeds. Like, I wonder why she never goes Super Saiyan ever & isn't able to properly defend herself in lieu of her being put in the damsel in distress role. Now, not that she can't be put in that role, but it happens way too much where she becomes a plot device or motivation for Goku (usually that he doesn't need) rather than a full character.

The 1 thing that still weirds me out is the first couple of episodes where they had her on a date with a guy who's noticeably older, yet is supposed to be 9 at best. Did the writers of GT think that 9-year-old girls (at least in Japan) are going out on dates & with guys that are way too old for them? Like, I know Japan has different cultural values in some respects than the US, but I wouldn't think prepubescent girls would be going on dates with older guys over there. This is 1 of the reasons why I don't mind FUNimation or other people thinking this series is supposed to be 10 years after the end of the manga/Z, as that's easier to accept with her being 14 as opposed to 9, but it's still a bit weird.

Compared with how Toriyama was starting to develop Pan in the Super continuity, where she's super cute in how she acts, she's more of a hybrid of Goku & Gohan's personalities from when they were kids, she's really strong for her age, & I could see Pan going on to be a great character had he not died & was able to continue Super passed the end of the manga/Z.

Dragon Ball isn't her story. It's Gokuu's, and Toei deliberately made him get all the spotlight in GT. It's lame, but it's redundant to complain about Pan specifically when all the other side characters sucked.

Ok, no. Dragon Ball is the story of an ensemble cast. Goku is the main character we follow for a lot of it, but it focuses on multiple characters at a time & gives them some kind of character development or arcs to go on. Goku gets the least character development of them, but they all still do. I need to rewatch the original DB series to track all of the developments from that half of the manga, but in Z/the last 4 arcs of the manga, it's mainly centered around the developments of 3 characters; Piccolo, Gohan, & Vegeta. Piccolo turns into a good guy, Gohan matures as a person, & Vegeta gets over his own ego. Hell, even Goku gets development in the Android Arc to be more proactive & not just want a good fight. It's stupid & flies in the face of a lot of his characterization from before then, but that's his arc for that part of the story.

As for "all the side characters sucked," um, no? The fuck are you talking about? A lot of the side characters are either cool or entertaining. They have flaws, but they get ironed out over time or aren't enough to ruin stories. Toriyama purposefully made a lot of the characters the ways he did to draw comedy from their personalities & a lot of them grow out of those personality traits over time & gain new ones like we all do in life. That's such a bad take, man.

[JulieYBM]

Extremely sad that Dragon Ball GT did not do an episode where Zarbon and Thouser met and interacted.

If we're really bringing up how Pan was treated in GT, I'm of the opinion that she started off ok, definitely a decently entertaining personality, but she then becomes a bully to Giru & is inconsistent in some of her personality traits after the opening few episodes. What doesn't help is that she's Goku's granddaughter & Gohan's daughter, yet doesn't noticeably get more powerful or do much that actually affects what's going in. She tries, but never succeeds. Like, I wonder why she never goes Super Saiyan ever & isn't able to properly defend herself in lieu of her being put in the damsel in distress role. Now, not that she can't be put in that role, but it happens way too much where she becomes a plot device or motivation for Goku (usually that he doesn't need) rather than a full character.

The 1 thing that still weirds me out is the first couple of episodes where they had her on a date with a guy who's noticeably older, yet is supposed to be 9 at best. Did the writers of GT think that 9-year-old girls (at least in Japan) are going out on dates & with guys that are way too old for them? Like, I know Japan has different cultural values in some respects than the US, but I wouldn't think prepubescent girls would be going on dates with older guys over there. This is 1 of the reasons why I don't mind FUNimation or other people thinking this series is supposed to be 10 years after the end of the manga/Z, as that's easier to accept with her being 14 as opposed to 9, but it's still a bit weird.

Compared with how Toriyama was starting to develop Pan in the Super continuity, where she's super cute in how she acts, she's more of a hybrid of Goku & Gohan's personalities from when they were kids, she's really strong for her age, & I could see Pan going on to be a great character had he not died & was able to continue Super passed the end of the manga/Z.

The answer is misogyny. The answer is always misogyny. Men treat girls and women like they are not human and work to perpetuate a society where girls and women internalize those notions. This manifests in attitudes across a broad spectrum.

[MasenkoHA]

Dragon Ball is the story of an ensemble cast. Goku is the main character we follow for a lot of it, but it focuses on multiple characters at a time & gives them some kind of character development or arcs to go on. Goku gets the least character development of them, but they all still do. I need to rewatch the original DB series to track all of the developments from that half of the manga,

But it’s really not though. It is Goku’s story. He’s kinda co-leading with Bulma in the first arc and Gohan very temporarily takes over at the end of Cell and partway through Boo but it’s otherwise the Goku show especially in the pre-Saiyan era where Toriyama didn’t have the need to keep him out of the story to make the villains a threat.

Gohan’s importance pre-Cell Games gets way over inflated by the anime. He’s pretty much there in the Saiyan arc for Piccolo’s growth and by Namek he’s no more important than Kuririn.

Supporting characters can get development and growth in the story to, it doesn’t make the series an ensemble.


Other characters getting their time in the spotlight, usually in their introductory arc, doesn’t change that Goku is the constant of the series.

[Kid Buu]

Gohan’s importance pre-Cell Games gets way over inflated by the anime. He’s pretty much there in the Saiyan arc for Piccolo’s growth and by Namek he’s no more important than Kuririn.

Not sure if this scene is in the comic, but in the cartoon, there's literally a scene where Goku tells Gohan to imagine being mad at Cell and Gohan's all like "uh, I don't know how Cell looks like" which really shows how relevant he was in that arc before the final battle.

[Zebra]

Pan is a co-lead of Dragon Ball GT and her character being underserviced is worthy of being criticized.

Not really a co-lead. Gokuu's the star and everyone else is just his cheerleader.

Nobody is 'surprised'. I am being critical of how Dragon Ball in general and Dragon Ball GT specifically poorly write Pan and these criticisms stand for a majority of other depictions of female characters throughout the franchise.

It goes without saying that a series created by a self-proclaimed pervert who drew a comic where a woman gets raped for laughs won't depict women in the best light.

Doesn't make it right, but it'd be better to just watch a series that actually stars women than demand Dragon Ball treat women better. By the time GT rolled around, it was too late to expect the franchise to suddenly do women justice.

Caulifla and Kale are characters who appear in numerous episodes of a serialized storyline that spanned a year.

They don't appear at all after the Tournament of Power. And they were always minor characters.

Kale is just a gender-bent knockoff of Broly and Caulifla is an accessory to her.

[Zebra]

Ok, no. Dragon Ball is the story of an ensemble cast.

It's Gokuu's story. Everyone else comes up short compared to him, and they just exist to make him look better in the end. Some characters develop and get spotlight, but ultimately, they're not as important as Gokuu.

As for "all the side characters sucked," um, no? The fuck are you talking about?

They sucked in GT.

[super michael]

Ok, no. Dragon Ball is the story of an ensemble cast.

It's Gokuu's story. Everyone else comes up short compared to him, and they just exist to make him look better in the end. Some characters develop and get spotlight, but ultimately, they're not as important as Gokuu.

As for "all the side characters sucked," um, no? The fuck are you talking about?

They sucked in GT.

Even if other characters are not as important as Goku, they are still important. If not for Bulma radar, then Goku wouldn't have a way to revive and fight the Saiyans. If not for their team work, then Vegeta would have beat them all up.

The same on Namek if it wasn't for Piccolo and Gohan, then Freeza would have killed Goku before his Genki Dama was ready.
Gohan was the star in the Cell Games.

In GT only Goku made progress, while everyone else didn't make progress. Vegeta power was temporary.

Edit I almost forgot Raditz would have killed everyone if Piccolo wasn't there.

[Kid Buu]

Even if other characters are not as important as Goku, they are still important. If not for Bulma radar, then Goku wouldn't have a way to revive and fight the Saiyans. If not for their team work, then Vegeta would have beat them all up.

The same on Namek if it wasn't for Piccolo and Gohan, then Freeza would have killed Goku before his Genki Dama was ready.
Gohan was the star in the Cell Games.

In GT only Goku made progress, while everyone else didn't make progress. Vegeta power was temporary.

Edit I almost forgot Raditz would have killed everyone if Piccolo wasn't there.

Well, to be fair, Goku only beat Baby and Super 17 due to help from Uub and Android 18.

[Scsigs]

The answer is misogyny. The answer is always misogyny. Men treat girls and women like they are not human and work to perpetuate a society where girls and women internalize those notions. This manifests in attitudes across a broad spectrum.

I...don't think so. I think it's more likely a result of the writers of that episode in Japan not having a firm grasp on how old exactly that Pan was supposed to be. I'd love to know if there's an interview of why that decision was made. Like, the date served no purpose. You could easily have Pan hanging out with a friend of her's from school & it'd fit much better.

But it’s really not though. It is Goku’s story. He’s kinda co-leading with Bulma in the first arc and Gohan very temporarily takes over at the end of Cell and partway through Boo but it’s otherwise the Goku show especially in the pre-Saiyan era where Toriyama didn’t have the need to keep him out of the story to make the villains a threat.

Gohan’s importance pre-Cell Games gets way over inflated by the anime. He’s pretty much there in the Saiyan arc for Piccolo’s growth and by Namek he’s no more important than Kuririn.

Supporting characters can get development and growth in the story to, it doesn’t make the series an ensemble.


Other characters getting their time in the spotlight, usually in their introductory arc, doesn’t change that Goku is the constant of the series.

Like I said, it's an ensemble cast. Yes, Goku is the character we follow for most of the story, but every arc of the manga establishes a main group that we follow, most of which are in each arc. Even if you wanna say they're just the supporting cast, they're still there.
I'll compare it to Ben 10. Each series of the original continuity follows the adventures of Ben Tennyson, but we usually have more characters than him in the cast; Max & Gwen in the original series, Gwen & Kevin in UAF, & Rook in Omniverse, then there's the recurring characters we see a lot. Or, even other anime, Bleach. Ichigo is the main character we follow, but he's surrounded by supporting characters that make up the cast.

Also, I haven't watched a lot of Z, just the end of Cell into the Buu Arc & that was over a decade ago. I've mainly just experienced the games & Kai, so whatever's left from Z in Kai that expanded on the manga's storytelling is whatever you'd have to talk about here. I know of some of it, but that's not what I'm talking about here.

[MasenkoHA]

Like, the date served no purpose. You could easily have Pan hanging out with a friend of her's from school & it'd fit much better.

It did serve a purpose though. Pan liked boy. Boy liked Pan. Boy got freaked out because girl strong and kicks butt and runs off. It really doesn’t work with “just a friend from school”

I mean, the whole thing was ultimately pointless to the wider series narrative, as I don’t recall Pan needing to learn a lesson on being okay with being herself or being more lady like (because 90s Japan) but it did serve an episode specific purpose even if that was with a bit of a sexist undercurrent of “boys don’t want a girl stronger than them”

Like I said, it's an ensemble cast. Yes, Goku is the character we follow for most of the story, but every arc of the manga establishes a main group that we follow, most of which are in each arc. Even if you wanna say they're just the supporting cast, they're still there.

Ensemble cast implied multiple characters of equal importance. They’re not . We follow Goku for most of the story because it’s HIS story with Toriyama even having to announce that Gohan will be taking over for a bit after the Cell Games, something that wouldn’t be necessary if the story was truly an ensemble.

Fans will convince themselves it’s not supposed to be Goku’s story and then get upset when GT focuses even more on Goku or when Goku gets almost all of the major victories against the bad guy and really they’re doing it to themselves. Nobody is gonna say Dragon Ball doesn’t have a supporting cast most stories do that’s how stories work.

[WittyUsername]

Outside of the first arc, when the series was just a goofy gag manga about finding the titular objects, Dragon Ball has never really been an ensemble story.

[Kenji]

Digressing a bit from the main convo:

I think the thing with Pan's date from the first episode was meant to be explored at some point, but got thrown out the window as soon as the producers saw that GT wasn't going to get better ratings and the show pivoted to more Z-like adventures.

The scene implies that she is constantly dumped by the boys at her school for being too strong and scary, which probably explains why she keeps complaining that she wants to be treated like a Proper Lady later on.

At the end of the show, she does meet a boy who is kind of implied to be her future love interest, because he asks her to have flying lessons with her, much like Videl and Gohan started out.

Maybe the lesson they were trying to impart to their audience was that Pan shouldn't lessen herself to be what society expects a woman to be and just be her strong authentic self, boys who are scared of her be damned? Maybe this is also why Giru grows a crush on her during their space trip? "Pan dangerous, but Giru loves Pan!"

But then again, I'd be putting way too much faith into people who deliberately put her in the damsel-in-distress role.