Dragon Ball Genkida Matsuri 2026 DBS remaster, DBS galactic patrol arc, Age 1000 announced.

[JulieYBM]

Call me a cynic, but I can't say that I understand the logic in thinking that Daima was a replacement for Super when Daima was just a project that Toriyama took over working on while still working on Super. There was no way that Super wasn't going to continue to be the primary face of the franchise after how huge it was for both the Tournament of Power and the Broly film.

To be fair, Daima happened right in the middle of the legal rights clusterfuck, that everyone and their mom expected to go for years and years and years. And then Toriyama died, making everything even worse.
It was not the craziest of stretches to think that between those two things the Iyoku side of things would go "fuck it, let's make our own Dragon Ball sequel now, with blackjack and hookers. Super? What's a Super? No idea what you're talking about."
It was either that or Dragon Ball continuing to be nothing while the legal mess kept going on. In all honestly, whatever agreements or deals or whatever happened in the background, we're real lucky things are moving on this quickly because these sort of things can easily hit up a decade.

God, I wish there was actual blackjack and sex workers in Daima.

[The Dark Knight]

Geekdom said in his latest video that the regular Ssj Black from the manga might make its way into the remake. If this actually happens, then it opens the door to SsjG also making its way into the arc, as well as the Champa arc.

[JulieYBM]

It isn't a leap to guess that any additions are possible to the enhanced version.

[The Dark Knight]

It isn't a leap to guess that any additions are possible to the enhanced version.

Making the Zamasu arc closer to the manga version will require more than just a few additions, it'll require entire sections of the story being remade from the ground up. Could they get away with changing Black's hair to yellow instead of pink when he initially stabs Vegeta ? Sure, because that would more or less be a simple swap of colors, but the entire fight between him and Ssj2 Vegeta, Goku using Hakai, the clone Zamasus, etc... ? I don't know how likely that is. Changes such as these seem to be way above the scope of this project.

[JulieYBM]

It isn't a leap to guess that any additions are possible to the enhanced version.

Making the Zamasu arc closer to the manga version will require more than just a few additions, it'll require entire sections of the story being remade from the ground up. Could they get away with changing Black's hair to yellow instead of pink when he initially stabs Vegeta ? Sure, because that would more or less be a simple swap of colors, but the entire fight between him and Ssj2 Vegeta, Goku using Hakai, the clone Zamasus, etc... ? I don't know how likely that is. Changes such as these seem to be way above the scope of this project.

They don't need to make major revisions if they're just adding in new bits that don't require too many new shots. The enhanced version does not need to mimic the comic to simply include ideas that are in the comic.

[The Dark Knight]

Um...none of that handwaving or ignoring what actually happened in Daima would make Daima actually compatible with Super. Every solution you just tried to introduce only creates more problems & logical inconsistencies.

Yeah, you're right. After thinking about it though, I do believe there's a way to include Daima's event in Super's timeline without messing things up. Kibito only had one or two scenes in Battle of Gods, so they can just redraw him as Nahara instead, as we know certain scenes are getting redrawn. When Goku transforms into Ssj3 against Beerus, he says something along the lines that it's his most powerful form. As a result of certain dialogue being re-recorded for this, they can have Goku say something along the lines of "this should be enough to handle you", which hints at Goku having a stronger form (Ssj4) without actually having to animate it. As for Ssj3 Vegeta, they can have Piccolo say something along the lines of "he got that strong without using his Ssj3 ?" when he rages against Beerus. I just don't see them ignoring something Toriyama was so heavily involved with, and something that has potential for more stories, so this would be one way of including those events into Super's story.

[L3anD3RStar]

[quote=JulieYBM post_id=1812196 time=1769646842 user_id=996
God, I wish there was actual blackjack and sex workers in Daima.
[/quote]

There’s very little that isn’t improved by those two things. Maybe I’ve just been watching too much other content set in Hell, but this Demon Realm was awfully devoid of seediness for an underworld full of gestapo who leech away the life energy of an enslaved population and criminals who will steal your car. One or two bar dancers and a nondescript gambling table or two would’ve sold the setting better.

Especially because Hat Girl was definitely some kind of sex worker hired to steal a belt.

My biggest frustration was Daima was it kept doubling down on the stuff it didn’t need, like all of the vehicle hopping, and just throwing away ideas that could’ve made the story more interesting, like the Majin collars. And Arinsu. She ends up getting away with everything. So does what’s-his-name, the other Kai who held a baby at gunpoint.

I do believe there's a way to include Daima's event in Super's timeline without messing things up.

I think you could’ve solved the problem by just making SSJ4 a magical transformation, which Goku couldn’t do on his own, or which was limited to the demon world somehow. Just cut the line at the end when Goku says “Oh yeah that monkey stuff, I could totally already do that.” Or just have him be, ya know… lying. To troll Vegeta. Goku has been known to lie to get what he wants. He’s not above it.

Just make it so the skills and powers they gained in the Demon Realm only work in the demon realm.

Or don’t worry about it and call it its own continuity. It wouldn’t be the first time.

[Xeogran]

SSJ Black is great news. If he makes it in this whole thing is officially worth it. And honestly, it is a "now or never" situation, so I don't see why would they pick "never".

[JulieYBM]

There’s very little that isn’t improved by those two things. Maybe I’ve just been watching too much other content set in Hell, but this Demon Realm was awfully devoid of seediness for an underworld full of gestapo who leech away the life energy of an enslaved population and criminals who will steal your car. One or two bar dancers and a nondescript gambling table or two would’ve sold the setting better.

Especially because Hat Girl was definitely some kind of sex worker hired to steal a belt.

My biggest frustration was Daima was it kept doubling down on the stuff it didn’t need, like all of the vehicle hopping, and just throwing away ideas that could’ve made the story more interesting, like the Majin collars. And Arinsu. She ends up getting away with everything. So does what’s-his-name, the other Kai who held a baby at gunpoint.

The character arc wheel spinning in Daima is its greatest weakness. It makes me wish it just went full R18 so that they could st least do a bunch of weird pervert shit for the hell of it instead of aiming the project at families and kids.

Also, I'm just bi and want silly hot people shenanigans.

[Scsigs]

Um...none of that handwaving or ignoring what actually happened in Daima would make Daima actually compatible with Super. Every solution you just tried to introduce only creates more problems & logical inconsistencies.

Yeah, you're right. After thinking about it though, I do believe there's a way to include Daima's event in Super's timeline without messing things up. Kibito only had one or two scenes in Battle of Gods, so they can just redraw him as Nahara instead, as we know certain scenes are getting redrawn. When Goku transforms into Ssj3 against Beerus, he says something along the lines that it's his most powerful form. As a result of certain dialogue being re-recorded for this, they can have Goku say something along the lines of "this should be enough to handle you," which hints at Goku having a stronger form (Ssj4) without actually having to animate it. As for Ssj3 Vegeta, they can have Piccolo say something along the lines of "he got that strong without using his Ssj3?" when he rages against Beerus. I just don't see them ignoring something Toriyama was so heavily involved with, and something that has potential for more stories, so this would be one way of including those events into Super's story.

In order to fit Daima's events into Super's timeline, you'd need to heavily rewrite parts of it & Super's chain of events as well to an extent & in better ways than you suggest.

Just off the top of my head, having SS4 be tied directly to Neva & not have Goku saying he was trying to develop it on his own would be the first steps. Rather than having him be able to transform into it as an adult, him getting a shot of the special energy Neva gave him as a kid would also have to be added. It could be explained as a form tied to Goku going to a new level of Super Saiyan in the Demon Realm or something, as the Namekians & Popo being from there could say that the evolution & development of beings from there goes off on a point of divergence as they would in the regular universe. This would help explain how SS4 is visually very different than every other Super Saiyan form & could also be used to explain how Goku can't access it when he gets home as well, so he's stuck with SS3...for now. It'd also explain why he has a tail in the form, but doesn't regrow it in his base state, nor does he retain it after transforming back.

Then, if Vegeta really is supposed to have SS3, maybe having him unlock it through being in the Demon Realm rather than having it already would also be a good idea since, if he's supposed to have it beforehand, that's kind of weird that he doesn't transform into it when he gets pissed at Beerus. That'd also give him a bit of development in Daima & make it so that the Super Saiyan forms aren't just handed out like candy every time, as well as reach back to how Gotenks got it by training in the Time Chamber rather than already be able to transform into it when fused.

As for Supreme Kai & Kibito, maybe have the fusion bugs come back as a last minute joke where they accidentally fuse back together with some & can't use Majin Buu again to defuse so they have to think of a new plan for that.

All of these, though, would require re-animating parts of Daima & I don't think they're going to do that just to make it fit with Super.

As for them ignoring stories that Toriyama came up with, they already did when making the Super version of Battle of Gods excising the mention of Tarble for no reason. He wrote the story for that OVA, so why leave the mention of him out? It's stupid. They also gladly ignore the parts of the last 2 chapters of the manga that Super blatantly contradict about Earth being at peace for 10 years & Goku & Bulma having not seen each other in 5 years (which is mostly Toriyama's fault for also ignoring those, but still). They also blatantly ignored Toriyama's continuity most of the time when writing the 90s Z movies. Don't act like it'd be the first or only time they've done it to tell new stories.

I don't know why it's so hard for some fans to just accept Daima as being incompatible with Super & to just let both coexist with one another. This sounds an awful lot like when Super first came out & people still trying to insist that GT was canon even though GT has contradictions in of itself to Toriyama's manga. Just let both exist side by side as different timelines like we do at this point with Super & GT. It's not a bad thing & Toei are under no obligation to make both work within the same continuity if they don't want to. It's like Superman Returns completely ignoring the events of Superman 3 & 4 to be an alternate sequel to Superman 2, or the fact that there are way too damn many alternate timelines in the Halloween franchise because they can't make up their damn minds on what's supposed to be canon. Dragon Ball has had multiple works that take place in alternate timelines before, so why is it all of a sudden a problem now?

[kiarasuraru]

Dragon Ball has had multiple works that take place in alternate timelines before, so why is it all of a sudden a problem now?

Presentation.
All those other works made it clear what they were. That they all were for fun side-things you shouldn't think too hard about. That the most Toriyama ever did on them was design a few characters and call it a day.

With Daima? They did their utmost to make it appear as legitimate as possible. That Toriyama was involved, very involved, in fact, that this was the most Toriyama Toriyama had ever Torimaya'd on anything since forever.
Lots of and lots of this is a sequel, the sequel, of OG manga, in fact, this is a direct sequel to the Buu saga, the most sequel sequel of them all and with the most Toriyama ever on it too so that makes it the most Toriyama sequel of them all.
Don't you remember how much of the marketing was about that?
And then Toriyama died. Granted, this was not on purpose, duh, but it helped a lot with the "optics". Toriyama's "last gift"? It clearly must the canonest canon of all the canons of them all.

I remember how even before Daima started to air there was people going about how Daima was gonna be the new canon and Super was gonna get retconned and going the way of GT. Super funny and ironic considering how things panned out at the end of the day.

So it's a mix of marketing doing its thing, the typical expectation that Toriyama involved = canon, people not even knowing what canon even means anymore, and a healthy dose of Super hate to push a narrative.

It's funny because if we use that typical argument the most canon of them all is Dragon Ball Online, alas, no one cares about DBO.

[JulieYBM]

Literally all they have to do is throw in a few shots of Kaiou-shin and Kibito instead of Kibito-Kai and then have Super Saiyan 4 Gokuu lose to Beerus. There doesn't need to be a ton of changes, if any at all.

[Kenji]

I really don't understand the weird fixation with wanting Daima to be connected/disconnected from Super.

From my own personal perspective, both happen in the same timeline. Both Toriyama and Toyotaro said he liked making new stories, even if they didn't make perfect sense or connected all that well. I wouldn't be shocked if the new version of Battle of Gods begins with Kibito and Shin already defused and they add SSJ4 to the mix of transformations Goku goes through before fighting Beerus. It's really not all that hard to connect them, actually.

I could be right, or I could be wrong, only time can tell. But the real question here is: Why is it such a big deal?
Does Daima being connected or disconnected from Super really affect their stories or your enjoyment of them somehow?

[Skar]

So it's a mix of marketing doing its thing, the typical expectation that Toriyama involved = canon, people not even knowing what canon even means anymore, and a healthy dose of Super hate to push a narrative.

I think it's mostly the idea that anything Toriyama was involved in = canon so fans try to force it all to fit in one continuity. We know by now in Japan everything is treated as official and existing in different continuities. It's why the different continuities of Super can borrow from other continuities like the manga using both Yardrat designs. It doesn't mean that every scene in Z filler and Online is canon to the manga and just whatever Toyotaro decides to include. Same with the anime that referenced some filler before and going to be including both designs in their Moro arc.

The Namek lore from Daima kinda works the Granolah arc because the Cerealian dragonballs were the first set not to have seven balls and it implied Nameks originated from a different realm. Maybe Toyotaro knew Toriyama was working on Daima at the time and decided to include those or they were suggestions from Toriyama while he was supervising the manga. It's similar lore but I think the origin of the DBs is still different. In Daima, the first set was in the Demon Realm and Namekian DBs were created separately later. In Super, the Namekian DBs were created from a shard of the Super DBs or something like that. There's also the origin of the multiverse because Daima only mentioned the Rymus and the Kaioshin while it depends if Super ever brings up Rymus or if he has a connection to other deities like Zeno and Angels.

[JulieYBM]

I really don't understand the weird fixation with wanting Daima to be connected/disconnected from Super.

From my own personal perspective, both happen in the same timeline. Both Toriyama and Toyotaro said he liked making new stories, even if they didn't make perfect sense or connected all that well. I wouldn't be shocked if the new version of Battle of Gods begins with Kibito and Shin already defused and they add SSJ4 to the mix of transformations Goku goes through before fighting Beerus. It's really not all that hard to connect them, actually.

I could be right, or I could be wrong, only time can tell. But the real question here is: Why is it such a big deal?
Does Daima being connected or disconnected from Super really affect their stories or your enjoyment of them somehow?

1. I'm cynical and imagine that they will want to toss in Super Saiyan 4 to Super for fun.

2. I want to make dumb gay jokes about the purple cat furry beating up the pink monkey furry.

Very simple reasons that make sense, especially the second.

[Peach]

The remaster is a good idea. Dragon Ball Super suffered from a lot of bad art and animation. Even in the Universal 6, Future Trunks, and Tournament of power sagas looked bad. Sort of a glossy look. I hated how future trunks’ timeline looked. Not to mention it’s filled with pointless episodes (Goku and Vegeta changing Beerus’ sheets)

I would be interested in a traditionally animated version of the super hero movie too. And would appreciate it if they remade GT at some point in the Super continuity.

[Grimlock]

It's why the different continuities of Super can borrow from other continuities like the manga using both Yardrat designs. It doesn't mean that every scene in Z filler and Online is canon to the manga and just whatever Toyotaro decides to include.

But if there is a canon, then Dragon Ball Online is canonical by all intents and purposes, using any and all arbitrarily made-up excuses people generally use to credit/discredit something.

Kid Vegeta appears with bangs in the manga too, so we have both bangless Vegeta and bang Vegeta "coexisting". So it's more that it's a case of "if it's official, then it's all that matters" mindset, which is something that everyone should live by now.

[Xeogran]

It's funny because if we use that typical argument the most canon of them all is Dragon Ball Online, alas, no one cares about DBO.

I care about DBO, but I feel like with Super now being a thing, they'll be retconning it's canon with inserting Super elements into it.
Project Age 1000 feels like DBO: Super Edition

So at this point DBO will probably be another Toriyama property that'll be "retconned" by another one, and honestly, screw this canon stuff as a whole.

[JulieYBM]

Canon was invented to sell more canon. We should focus on the individual quality of a project as it relates to whether or not it is a good project. Capitalism makes that difficult, but sometimes something good gets made despite it.

Getting away from franchise nonsense like Dragon Ball is good for the soul, though, so I always encourage people to do that, too. You can't always just eat junk food, after all.

[Skar]

But if there is a canon, then Dragon Ball Online is canonical by all intents and purposes, using any and all arbitrarily made-up excuses people generally use to credit/discredit something.

By "canon" in that example I meant the Super manga referencing Z filler and Online doesn't mean that all events of those continuities exist in the same continuity of the manga and just whatever Toyotaro decided to include. Same with Daima and they might reference some of it later without needing to including every piece of lore or transformation that appeared in Daima.

All the different continuities still exist and nothing is being discredited like a western studio coming out and declaring part of their franchise as "non-canon". Online was shutdown but characters and the story were included in Xenoverse and now this new game that might be treated as a sequel to Online.