Dragon Ball Genkida Matsuri 2026 DBS remaster, DBS galactic patrol arc, Age 1000 announced.

[The Dark Knight]

I really don't understand the weird fixation with wanting Daima to be connected/disconnected from Super.

I don't think it's that people want or don't want Daima to connect, but rather simply want to know whether it will or not. No one would be talking about this if someone official would just say what's going on. If it's connected to Super, then great; If not, then that's great too.

[Tian]

I really don't understand the weird fixation with wanting Daima to be connected/disconnected from Super.

I don't think it's that people want or don't want Daima to connect, but rather simply want to know whether it will or not.

That's pretty much my case. I want to know whether this re-version will include elements from Daima or not and if so, how they'll handle them.

I don't expect SSJ4 showing up though.

[Mr Baggins]

Well, the official stance is that they're separate continuities. At least according to the games.

Look no further than Sparking Zero's "Girl Talk" dialogue, where Bulma (Super) doesn't recognize Panzy or any of the characters from Daima. She also reacts as if she's seeing Vegeta as a kid for the first time. The women can only recall the events from the original series and Super (all the way up to Super Hero) whereas GT and Daima are distinctly treated like alternate realities.

...which makes sense, tbh. Daima became increasingly difficult to reconcile with Super nearly every week, to the point that by the time it was over, I'm certain the show was just meant to be a different take from Toriyama on a Buu arc continuation. Should be obvious by now that they weren't going back to the Buu era and using a brand new subtitle just because.

It doesn't invalidate Super at all; just means that Toriyama had no problem writing what-ifs for his own sequel material. That's fine. People do that shit with fanfiction all the time, and authors themselves have done it on many an occasion.

tl;dr: Dragon Ball Zelda is real. The sooner we embrace that, the fewer headaches I think we'll have.

[WittyUsername]

I don’t have a “fixation” with keeping Daima separate, so much as I’d find any attempt to reconcile it with Super to be face-palm worthy at best. The simple fact is that Daima contradicts Super in numerous ways and unless there’s some plan to have characters like Gloria and Panzy appear in the future, there’s no reason for the remake to mention Daima at all.

Most of us have no problem reconciling that GT is not the same timeline as Super, so what’s the problem with applying the same logic to Daima? It’s not like branching timelines are unheard of in fiction anyway. Look at the Halloween and Godzilla franchises.

[Vegard Aune]

The Namek lore from Daima kinda works the Granolah arc because the Cerealian dragonballs were the first set not to have seven balls and it implied Nameks originated from a different realm. Maybe Toyotaro knew Toriyama was working on Daima at the time and decided to include those or they were suggestions from Toriyama while he was supervising the manga. It's similar lore but I think the origin of the DBs is still different. In Daima, the first set was in the Demon Realm and Namekian DBs were created separately later. In Super, the Namekian DBs were created from a shard of the Super DBs or something like that. There's also the origin of the multiverse because Daima only mentioned the Rymus and the Kaioshin while it depends if Super ever brings up Rymus or if he has a connection to other deities like Zeno and Angels.

I am all but entirely certain that the Namek lore in Super chapter 69 is intentional Daima foreshadowing. It casually brings up the Namekians hailing from another world, it has Granolah use the same chant that was used to summon the dragon in Daima, and, though the Viz translation fails to include this, it is the first time the word "Namekku-jin" is used. Specifically in the context of Maki wondering if "Namekku-jin" and "Namekku-seijin" are the same thing or not. The timelines also add up such that I think it's quite safe to assume Daima was in the works at the time chapter 69 came out.

[Scsigs]

Literally all they have to do is throw in a few shots of Kaiou-shin and Kibito instead of Kibito-Kai and then have Super Saiyan 4 Gokuu lose to Beerus. There doesn't need to be a ton of changes, if any at all.

I literally explained what they'd need to change to make Daima fit with Super. It's WAY more than that. I feel you know that, though.

I really don't understand the weird fixation with wanting Daima to be connected/disconnected from Super.

From my own personal perspective, both happen in the same timeline. Both Toriyama and Toyotaro said he liked making new stories, even if they didn't make perfect sense or connected all that well. I wouldn't be shocked if the new version of Battle of Gods begins with Kibito and Shin already defused and they add SSJ4 to the mix of transformations Goku goes through before fighting Beerus. It's really not all that hard to connect them, actually.

I could be right, or I could be wrong, only time can tell. But the real question here is: Why is it such a big deal?
Does Daima being connected or disconnected from Super really affect their stories or your enjoyment of them somehow?

I'd love for Daima & Super to be in the same timeline, I really would, but there's too many discontinuities between them to ignore & I listed several of them. I don't have a personal want for them to not be in the same continuity, it's just that they don't fit together. I'd rather people just accept that they're 2 different timelines & get over it already so we can have more productive discussions. Seriously, when I heard Geekdom say they aren't 2 different timelines in 1 of his recent videos, I'm like, "Dude, you're an idiot." I even pulled the GT comparison where by now we just accept that it's a different timeline than Super & that's fine.

[Kenji]

Whether Daima is connected to Super or not, that's up to the DB producers to determine, not you or me.
And so far, the only thing anyone or anything in any official capacity has ever said about the subject was:

- "The movies happen in another dimension" (Toriyama)
- "GT is an alternate timeline" (Xenoverse)
- "Fans must decide their own canon" (Toyotaro)
- "Everything is canon in some shape or form, including GT" (Shueisha)

And Daima has never been neither confirmed nor denied to be a separate continuity from Super.

[WittyUsername]

I’ve said many times before that I doubt Toriyama was deliberately trying to contradict DBS when he wrote Daima, but the contradictions exist regardless and they’re pretty difficult to ignore. The powers that be seem to more or less be treating Daima as a one-off thing anyway, so why is it so important that it exist in the same continuity as Super? If people love Daima, its existence isn’t going to suddenly be invalidated just because Super doesn’t acknowledge it.

[JulieYBM]

Literally all they have to do is throw in a few shots of Kaiou-shin and Kibito instead of Kibito-Kai and then have Super Saiyan 4 Gokuu lose to Beerus. There doesn't need to be a ton of changes, if any at all.

I literally explained what they'd need to change to make Daima fit with Super. It's WAY more than that. I feel you know that, though.

No, I just did not think that any of your explanations made sense. People will watch Daima, then they will watch Dragon Ball Super: Beerus and not at all be surprised when Gokuu transforms into Super Saiyan 4 against someone, say, Beerus, and voila, gets his ass kicked. Why do we need to explain away Neva or anything at all? Assuming that the staff of Super (2026) felt like it was necessary smooth out little inconsistencies, those changes could easily be done in none resource intensive ways.

Shit, include Super Saiyan 4 Vegeta for funsies, too. We see Vegeta getting pissed off at Beerus in the trailer, perhaps in the next shot he transforms into Super Saiyan 3 or 4 to sell a new figure or sticker set.

I’ve said many times before that I doubt Toriyama was deliberately trying to contradict DBS when he wrote Daima, but the contradictions exist regardless and they’re pretty difficult to ignore. The powers that be seem to more or less be treating Daima as a one-off thing anyway, so why is it so important that it exist in the same continuity as Super? If people love Daima, its existence isn’t going to suddenly be invalidated just because Super doesn’t acknowledge it.

I do not see how it's a stretch to suspect that the production staff for these projects might stop and say to themselves, "Hey, wouldn't it be cool if Gokuu used Super Saiyan 4 in this fight? Toriyama-sensei designed his own take on it, so we can just use that, right?"

I have low as hell expectations for this project already, given that it's mostly just cobbling together episodes from an eleven year old television series that was rushed out the door, but it doesn't hurt to say, "Ooh, this would be cool, blah, blah, blah."

[Scsigs]

Whether Daima is connected to Super or not, that's up to the DB producers to determine, not you or me.
And so far, the only thing anyone or anything in any official capacity has ever said about the subject was:

- "The movies happen in another dimension" (Toriyama)
- "GT is an alternate timeline" (Xenoverse)
- "Fans must decide their own canon" (Toyotaro)
- "Everything is canon in some shape or form, including GT" (Shueisha)

And Daima has never been neither confirmed nor denied to be a separate continuity from Super.

I'm sorry, but you missed one.
"Our old anime shows are different continuities from the manga & now ever since Kai, nothing about them is canon to what we're doing nowadays, which is meant to springboard off the manga." (Toei)
They did that when they made Kai to explicitly be a closer adaptation of the manga's version of events & then Super was explicitly made to be a sequel to the original manga & they used the Kai remaster footage for flashbacks at points early on. They've made references to the filler from Z at points (Ginyu frog, Yamcha's baseball career), but you're not supposed to take Super as a sequel to the older animes. Hell, they re-animated scenes from History of Trunks so they can keep up the lie that Future Trunks' hair is blue & has been the whole time.

And, I'm sorry, but no. Toriyama explicitly ignored certain things that he himself wrote in Super for Daima just so he could tell a new story without having to worry about continuity after the manga in it. That much is evident & visible if you watch both Super & Daima. They made it to be a reboot of some of the ideas in GT, they've said as much, & Toriyama got involved to the point he wrote a lot of the story for it. He was certainly way more involved in the writing than he was for Super. I don't know how you argue against this in good faith with a straight face.

[Kenji]

"Our old anime shows are different continuities from the manga & now ever since Kai, nothing about them is canon to what we're doing nowadays, which is meant to springboard off the manga." (Toei)

Can you please tell me where that quote comes from?

I don't know how you argue against this in good faith with a straight face.

I am arguing in good faith.

Toriyama has said as much that he simply likes writing stories regardless if they connect well, Torishima then reinforced that when asked about "canon." How else am I supposed to take their words, then? Am I supposed to take fan speculation over what the creators behind the franchise themselves are saying? Wouldn't that instead be considered arguing in bad faith?
viewtopic.php?t=49627

There has been exactly zero words on whether Daima and Super are connected continuities or not, zero.
We may speculate, but we are not the ones to decide that.

[Scsigs]

"Our old anime shows are different continuities from the manga & now ever since Kai, nothing about them is canon to what we're doing nowadays, which is meant to springboard off the manga." (Toei)

Can you please tell me where that quote comes from?

Bro, I made it up based on what is obviously been Toei's attitude since 2009. I thought that was obvious, sorry.

I don't know how you argue against this in good faith with a straight face.

I am arguing in good faith.

Toriyama has said as much that he simply likes writing stories regardless if they connect well, Torishima then reinforced that when asked about "canon." How else am I supposed to take their words, then? Am I supposed to take fan speculation over what the creators behind the franchise themselves are saying? Wouldn't that instead be considered arguing in bad faith?
viewtopic.php?t=49627

There has been exactly zero words on whether Daima and Super are connected continuities or not, zero.
We may speculate, but we are not the ones to decide that.

This feels like an authorial intent VS death of the author kind of thing, but even if it's not, you kind of just defeated your own argument & bolstered mine. If Toriyama didn't care about how neatly everything lined up, that's only more reason to go with Daima being an alternate timeline from Super. I'm fine with Toriyama writing whatever he wanted regardless of if they lined up or not, but that doesn't mean we suddenly have to take everything as 1 timeline. In fact, it's all the more reason not to. If viewers notice obvious discrepancies in events that happen in these things, we can obviously decide that, what? How is this a real argument here?

[miguelnuva1]

Is Super Beerus opens with Kaioshin and Kibito separate and then Goku and Vegeta use SS4 and SS3 that's more than enough to connect to Super.

[The Dark Knight]

Is Super Beerus opens with Kaioshin and Kibito separate and then Goku and Vegeta use SS4 and SS3 that's more than enough to connect to Super.

Kaioshin and Kibito being separate in Battle of Gods was actually Toriyama's original plan, as his art of the characters from the movie back in 2013 had them separate, so that could happen. As for Goku and Vegeta using those forms, we already know they won't because we saw them using Ssj3 and Ssj2 respectively in the trailer. However, they could throw in a couple of lines that either indicate they have them and explain why they're not using them.

[JulieYBM]

Is Super Beerus opens with Kaioshin and Kibito separate and then Goku and Vegeta use SS4 and SS3 that's more than enough to connect to Super.

Kaioshin and Kibito being separate in Battle of Gods was actually Toriyama's original plan, as his art of the characters from the movie back in 2013 had them separate, so that could happen. As for Goku and Vegeta using those forms, we already know they won't because we saw them using Ssj3 and Ssj2 respectively in the trailer. However, they could throw in a couple of lines that either indicate they have them and explain why they're not using them.

A trailer is just a trailer. While I expect that those shots will appear in the episodes proper, to think that they could not simply be followed up by further transformations is jumping the gun.

[MCDaveG]

Um...none of that handwaving or ignoring what actually happened in Daima would make Daima actually compatible with Super. Every solution you just tried to introduce only creates more problems & logical inconsistencies.

Yeah, you're right. After thinking about it though, I do believe there's a way to include Daima's event in Super's timeline without messing things up. Kibito only had one or two scenes in Battle of Gods, so they can just redraw him as Nahara instead, as we know certain scenes are getting redrawn. When Goku transforms into Ssj3 against Beerus, he says something along the lines that it's his most powerful form. As a result of certain dialogue being re-recorded for this, they can have Goku say something along the lines of "this should be enough to handle you", which hints at Goku having a stronger form (Ssj4) without actually having to animate it. As for Ssj3 Vegeta, they can have Piccolo say something along the lines of "he got that strong without using his Ssj3 ?" when he rages against Beerus. I just don't see them ignoring something Toriyama was so heavily involved with, and something that has potential for more stories, so this would be one way of including those events into Super's story.

I am bit afraid, that leaving Daima bits to Daima only, might be the best approach, as this will definitely please those fans, that demand canon and have headaches that basically only steady timeline is the original one and all the sequels so far run in opposition to each other, basically being their own alternate branches.
Goku's statement would create more plotholes than solving continuity... If he can attain SSJ4, why doesn't he use it against Beerus?
That's one bummer for viewers. If he does go through the full progression, updated with SSJ4, that makes it quite a lot of extra work to include, beyond just making SSJ Black and SSJ4 wouldn't be relevant afterwards. Not to mention that it's unnnecesary complication story-wise, there is buttload of issues in writing that Super had to begin with without addressing extended continuity beyond the original series, from out of context and nowhere lore bits being tossed around while forgetting about Pilaf, introducing Jaco like an old pal from old anime, which makes sense only for those that read the manga. Half the show feels like not much of source material, heavily threaded with filler, which is unnaceptable when the show itself is the source material, not having any manga to go off from (that's only different with Moro and Granolah, not yet adapted).
But there were also moments that I liked... I thought that the idea with Ginyu was awesome, as well as including Gotenks, but handled poorly, while the scene of Freeza destroying Earth was surprisingly way better than in the actual movie.

IMHO I'd prefer and I do prefer, Daima and Super being separate. Back at the time, I took it as "Toriyama's special project to pull off the closest to the sequel he'd like to do" whatever the background is with potential of continutation without being hindered by whatever the projects before did. As Toriyama sadly passed away, I can write it off as great and fun one off and if they are redoing Super, which I always said about that it's my childhood dream sequel in contrast to GT and take Super as one and only sequel again. It's opportunity that I really hope they won't fuck up this time, as besides Daima and movies, all the recent productions starting with Kai were low-cost and behind the scenes management disasters.

[The Dark Knight]

IMHO I'd prefer and I do prefer, Daima and Super being separate.

I think it would be easier to just leave Daima behind as its own standalone project, but with how heavily Toriyama was with it, and with how many new story opportunities it's opened up, will they really do that ? I think at this point it's a given that Daima will get a sequel, but do we really want yet another series of stories set before EOZ, or would it be better to connect Daima to Super and have any future stories be set after EOZ ? I honestly don't know, because I've seen compelling arguments for both sides. The earliest we can expect Daima to be revisited would likely be after whatever they plan to do with Black Freeza gets animated, which may not be until 2030, so we don't really have to worry about it now.

[mecha3000]

IMHO I'd prefer and I do prefer, Daima and Super being separate.

I think it would be easier to just leave Daima behind as its own standalone project, but with how heavily Toriyama was with it, and with how many new story opportunities it's opened up, will they really do that ? I think at this point it's a given that Daima will get a sequel, but do we really want yet another series of stories set before EOZ, or would it be better to connect Daima to Super and have any future stories be set after EOZ ? I honestly don't know, because I've seen compelling arguments for both sides. The earliest we can expect Daima to be revisited would likely be after whatever they plan to do with Black Freeza gets animated, which may not be until 2030, so we don't really have to worry about it now.

I agree. I feel like Dragon Ball fans are so guilty of trying to connect dots and thinking things are connected like the Marvel Cinematic Universe or something. And I promise that NO ONE AT TOEI OR EVEN TORIYAMA ever thought about it that way. I could be wrong, but I doubt SSJ4 Goku will fight Beerus in the Super remake because I don't think they want to alter the original story that much. I doubt Daima ever gets addressed in Super until maybe after the Black Freeza arc and by then, it might be retconned to be SUPER'S version of SSJ4, which I think might be better at the end of the day so it doesn't have to be inferior to the god forms and Ultra Instinct. I've also seen people suggest maybe SSJ4 and Ultra Instinct can be combined to make SSJ5 canon. That could be awesome.

But yeah, I prefer Super and Daima just being separate continuities/timelines. Especially with the whole Supreme Kai defusing with Kibito and Zeno/Rymus contradictions. And Dragon Ball has different timelines in its canon so why not just say Super and Daima are two different timelines? Hell, maybe even make a multiverse movie where Super Goku meets Daima Goku and they have to team-up against Zamasu and Gomah, No Way Home-style. Too far? Yeah, too far. But you get my point. Daima Goku meeting Super Goku can redeem Heroes building up SSJ4 Goku fighting Super Saiyan Blue Goku (if I remember right) and completely wasting that fight.

[Luso Saiyan]

And I promise that NO ONE AT TOEI OR EVEN TORIYAMA ever thought about it that way.

I'm sorry, but that's an asinine statement. Of course Toriyama makes new stories and worldbuilding in connection to his own story. How much of that story is faithfully adapted or how much stuff is made up in addition to what he provided is anyone's guess since it's rarely made public.

[Grimlock]

In fact, this would be the perfect opportunity to tell the Galactic Patrol trilogy.
Adapting "Jiya", "Sachie-Chan" and "Jaco" as Merus' stories to Goku and Vegeta as they are about to go to Namek would be ideal, not only to get a complete picture of the Galactic Patrol (and Jaco, who was introduced in the Dragon Ball animation really badly, as if everyone knew him), but it would also give more lore to Earth.

I've heard those stories also feature the Galactic Patrol thing, but are they really connected to Dragon Ball? Like, has any Dragon Ball character appeared in it or vice-versa? I never saw anything and I am completely oblivious to those other works.

Neko Majin, no. I don't see that getting an anime adaptation. Yes, there are some DB crossovers in it, moreso in Neko Majin Z, but I don't think enough to sustain it for long & they'd have to wait a bit if they go in chronological order because, iirc, Toriyama didn't do those crossovers for a while in it. On top of that, its slice of life Toriyama comedy probably wouldn't be suitable for a lot of DB fans at least internationally since the least popular arcs over here are the earlier ones & the Buu Arc, which did have more of his comedy in them.

Adapting Neko Majin (with some rewritings) could be a set-up for a new story later down the road. Have those characters eventually interact with the Dragon Ball characters in a new saga. It would also make Freeza's return wothwhile, as he had a child out there and could also make things interesting.

I don't care much about how it would be received, if people won't like it, it would be their problem (but people like seeing the same things again and again? I would suggest them to see a doctor, they have major issues that need to be taken care of), but Neko Majin would certainly expand the world of Dragon Ball, and that's what I care about and I'm here for.

Zeno/Rymus contradictions.

What about them are contradicted?

Hell, maybe even make a multiverse movie where Super Goku meets Daima Goku and they have to team-up against Zamasu and Gomah, No Way Home-style. Too far? Yeah, too far.

Nope, that's exactly what should be happening. Though I would change the villains. Have them team-up to face a new one instead.