Unpopular DB opinions

[JulieYBM]

I am mega pro filler episodes. I know filler episodes can be annoying when you are waiting for canon episodes, but filler can be fun and even great and iconic. Mr Robot anyone? That's why I dont think Super:Beerus should have the bare minimum amount of episodes, it should have the amount needed to tell its story and present fun and unique tales and adventures, maybe slice of life even.

I havent watched Mr Robot but how can that show have filler? Isn't filler inherent from shows (animated ones) that adapt manga? How can a tv show like Mr Robot have filler? Isnt't it an original story?

People have decided that 'filler' means "does not push forward a series or season-long narrative," which is just really insane to me as a writer. Girl, sometimes a bitch just wants to write a fun scene that isn't just caught up in the drama of everything else happening!

[Yellow Flower King]

You are the second person to tell me that today. I will be more specific, Robot Oji-san from the iconic dbz filler episode.

[Zephyr]

Outside of anime and manga circles, filler is just used as a synonym for padding, I'm pretty sure. Spinning wheels. Killing/wasting time. Unimportant stuff.

This can certainly apply to some "adaptation-original content", but not all "adaptation-original content" is padding.

I think this is also different from "monster of the week" type content in otherwise serialized stories. This is also not necessarily padding, as it can serve as a vehicle for developing important character relationships and arcs. But it could also be padding.

[Yellow Flower King]

I am mega pro filler episodes. I know filler episodes can be annoying when you are waiting for canon episodes, but filler can be fun and even great and iconic. Mr Robot anyone? That's why I dont think Super:Beerus should have the bare minimum amount of episodes, it should have the amount needed to tell its story and present fun and unique tales and adventures, maybe slice of life even.

I havent watched Mr Robot but how can that show have filler? Isn't filler inherent from shows (animated ones) that adapt manga? How can a tv show like Mr Robot have filler? Isnt't it an original story?

People have decided that 'filler' means "does not push forward a series or season-long narrative," which is just really insane to me as a writer. Girl, sometimes a bitch just wants to write a fun scene that isn't just caught up in the drama of everything else happening!

I know this is going to be an odd question but I was thinking of who would be the most likely to have an arc where they transition to their preferred gender... And that this is one of the few franchises where one can say "I WANNA BE (MY GENDER)" and get their wish granted.

[JulieYBM]

I havent watched Mr Robot but how can that show have filler? Isn't filler inherent from shows (animated ones) that adapt manga? How can a tv show like Mr Robot have filler? Isnt't it an original story?

People have decided that 'filler' means "does not push forward a series or season-long narrative," which is just really insane to me as a writer. Girl, sometimes a bitch just wants to write a fun scene that isn't just caught up in the drama of everything else happening!

I know this is going to be an odd question but I was thinking of who would be the most likely to have an arc where they transition to their preferred gender... And that this is one of the few franchises where one can say "I WANNA BE (MY GENDER)" and get their wish granted.

Goten or Trunks have that shit baked into being high school characters right now, so it's perfect for indulging in all the usual gender bender manga tropes.

[Yellow Flower King]

People have decided that 'filler' means "does not push forward a series or season-long narrative," which is just really insane to me as a writer. Girl, sometimes a bitch just wants to write a fun scene that isn't just caught up in the drama of everything else happening!

I know this is going to be an odd question but I was thinking of who would be the most likely to have an arc where they transition to their preferred gender... And that this is one of the few franchises where one can say "I WANNA BE (MY GENDER)" and get their wish granted.

Goten or Trunks have that shit baked into being high school characters right now, so it's perfect for indulging in all the usual gender bender manga tropes.

I dont know if its a joke answer or not but damn this is a good response. And it would DEFINITELY set Goten apart. And Masako Nozawa would get to play the pretty girl she always wanted to play. (She has mostly played boys for most of her career.)

[ABED]

I am mega pro filler episodes. I know filler episodes can be annoying when you are waiting for canon episodes, but filler can be fun and even great and iconic. Mr Robot anyone? That's why I dont think Super:Beerus should have the bare minimum amount of episodes, it should have the amount needed to tell its story and present fun and unique tales and adventures, maybe slice of life even.

I havent watched Mr Robot but how can that show have filler? Isn't filler inherent from shows (animated ones) that adapt manga? How can a tv show like Mr Robot have filler? Isnt't it an original story?

People have decided that 'filler' means "does not push forward a series or season-long narrative," which is just really insane to me as a writer. Girl, sometimes a bitch just wants to write a fun scene that isn't just caught up in the drama of everything else happening!

This. And by getting to know the characters and spend more time with thiem, we care more when the plot moves forward. What drives me bonkers is when "filler" is applied to older shows which were made up of pretty much mostly one offs and the only real serialization is a couple of new characters here and there. Maybe a new antagonist. Maybe the will they, won't they finally gets together. Plot is the vehicle we use to explore the story. Now plot and serialization is starting to feel like sugar, and we've long since passed the stage where it spikes our energy. Now we're in that stage where it makes us feel lethargic and bloated.

Professional writers would say filler isn't a thing. It's a fanmade term. I'm sure that's true and it likely started in anime fan circles. Then it got latched onto every other show as shows became more serialized. Now I fear those that grew up using it are becoming professional writers and think of stories in this way.

[JulieYBM]

I havent watched Mr Robot but how can that show have filler? Isn't filler inherent from shows (animated ones) that adapt manga? How can a tv show like Mr Robot have filler? Isnt't it an original story?

People have decided that 'filler' means "does not push forward a series or season-long narrative," which is just really insane to me as a writer. Girl, sometimes a bitch just wants to write a fun scene that isn't just caught up in the drama of everything else happening!

This. And by getting to know the characters and spend more time with thiem, we care more when the plot moves forward. What drives me bonkers is when "filler" is applied to older shows which were made up of pretty much mostly one offs and the only real serialization is a couple of new characters here and there. Maybe a new antagonist. Maybe the will they, won't they finally gets together. Plot is the vehicle we use to explore the story. Now plot and serialization is starting to feel like sugar, and we've long since passed the stage where it spikes our energy. Now we're in that stage where it makes us feel lethargic and bloated.

Professional writers would say filler isn't a thing. It's a fanmade term. I'm sure that's true and it likely started in anime fan circles. Then it got latched onto every other show as shows became more serialized. Now I fear those that grew up using it are becoming professional writers and think of stories in this way.

O'Brien Must Suffer episodes are some of my favorite episodes of Star Trek and they pretty much never did anything other than tell you something new about the poor bastard. It was great.

The big issue with Hollywood's old 22-26 episodes a season shit was that they were produced too quickly—exhausting for the cast and crew—and produced too strigently on both a financial and creative-level. Shows that mostly shot on soundstages meant a cast and crew spending sixteen hours a day six days a week shooting an episode, which is pure hell for the mind and body.

You also just can't stretch an arc out too much. As the format for these longer seasons switched to full season arcs being written into otherwise episodic A/B/C-Plots, the drama just gets untenable when you try to push it forward every episode. Directors not experimenting with editing, shot selection and sound direction for the sake of bleeding every episode into a single feel, inoffensive feel also really make episodes become boring as hell. I've been rewatching Twin Peaks lately and it's amazing how repeating the same Laura Palmer and series main themes over as much as it does saves a lot of scenes from feeling bland.

I know this is going to be an odd question but I was thinking of who would be the most likely to have an arc where they transition to their preferred gender... And that this is one of the few franchises where one can say "I WANNA BE (MY GENDER)" and get their wish granted.

Goten or Trunks have that shit baked into being high school characters right now, so it's perfect for indulging in all the usual gender bender manga tropes.

I dont know if its a joke answer or not but damn this is a good response. And it would DEFINITELY set Goten apart. And Masako Nozawa would get to play the pretty girl she always wanted to play. (She has mostly played boys for most of her career.)

Goten has so little personality that he can either be accidentally turned into a girl and learn to love it and fall in love with Trunks or he could be the male love interest to Trunks, who accidentally gets turned into a girl and learns to love it. The relationship dynamics work either way: M/M, F/M, or F/F.

I dunno, all the trans shit I write is floating around my brain all the time, I don't have anymore room to shift gears and develop a full outline for this right now lol

[90sDBZ]

It kind of annoys me when people say to skip 'The Fly' episode on Breaking Bad, due to it supposedly being filler. It has an important moment in Walt and Jesse's relationship, and is just fun to watch.

Another example is 'The Lost Sister' episode in Stranger Things. It's an important episode for Eleven's development, and adds some extra emotional weight to later scenes in season 2. It literally ends with her making the heroic choice to return to Hawkins.

But I do feel DB's filler is often actual filler, and can be straight up boring at times. There's fun filler, like Goku's post-Baba adventures, the driving episode, and the Otherworld Tournament.

But then there's stuff like the Spaceship episodes, Fake Namek, and Bulma's bad day, which are all a chore to get through.

I can understand them trimming down the Beerus stuff. Aside from them wanting this new version to stand apart, the first 26 episodes of Super moved very slow.

Goku vs Beerus was frustrating, because they constantly kept stopping to talk throughout the fight, to the point were it ruined the flow. It didn't help that the dialogue was very repetitive.

[ABED]

I enjoy the TV version of Battle of Gods. I like the expanded material. I could watch Beerus and Whis all day, so stopping the fight to have Beerus and Goku talk is something I find enjoyable. Better than cutaways to whatever Chichi was doing.

[The Dark Knight]

I do feel DB's filler is often actual filler, and can be straight up boring at times. There's fun filler, like Goku's post-Baba adventures, the driving episode, and the Otherworld Tournament. But then there's stuff like the Spaceship episodes, Fake Namek, and Bulma's bad day, which are all a chore to get through.

I think the biggest issue with the classic Dragon Ball material is that we don't have a middle ground; we're either going too fast (the manga) or too slow (the anime). Personally though, I prefer the pacing of the anime, because for every bad scene of filler, there's one good one just around the corner. As much as I love the original manga, it was too fast for my liking; it didn't let scenes breath the way the anime did. My ideal version of the story would be one that just keeps the good parts of filler, as that would give us a balanced version that's neither too fast nor too slow.

[Zephyr]

Professional writers would say filler isn't a thing. It's a fanmade term. I'm sure that's true and it likely started in anime fan circles. Then it got latched onto every other show as shows became more serialized. Now I fear those that grew up using it are becoming professional writers and think of stories in this way.

I'm hesitant to fully 'blame' anime circles for starting it, because it doesn't seem like they've ever had a monopoly on the term, in reference to art and media. I've seen the phrase "all killer, no filler" in reference to music records, particularly in reviews. The phrase even appears as the name for official releases, with this 1993 rock/country box set being the earliest example I'm seeing at a cursory glance. I have no doubt that some contemporary TV show commentators cribbed it from anime circles. But I think it's also clear that the term existed and was already applicable to commercial art, in areas that I sincerely doubt had any overlap with anime fandom, at least as far back as the early 90's. So there's a chance we'd still be seeing people calling Breaking Bad's fly episode "filler" even if the anime fans didn't do their part to irreparably damage media discourse.

If you wanna say "that's just music, TV shows are different", then fair enough. Color me still unconvinced, though.

[jjgp1112]

It kind of annoys me when people say to skip 'The Fly' episode on Breaking Bad, due to it supposedly being filler. It has an important moment in Walt and Jesse's relationship, and is just fun to watch.

Another example is 'The Lost Sister' episode in Stranger Things. It's an important episode for Eleven's development, and adds some extra emotional weight to later scenes in season 2. It literally ends with her making the heroic choice to return to Hawkins.

But I do feel DB's filler is often actual filler, and can be straight up boring at times. There's fun filler, like Goku's post-Baba adventures, the driving episode, and the Otherworld Tournament.

But then there's stuff like the Spaceship episodes, Fake Namek, and Bulma's bad day, which are all a chore to get through.

I can understand them trimming down the Beerus stuff. Aside from them wanting this new version to stand apart, the first 26 episodes of Super moved very slow.

Goku vs Beerus was frustrating, because they constantly kept stopping to talk throughout the fight, to the point were it ruined the flow. It didn't help that the dialogue was very repetitive.

The difference between Anime filler and what fans co sides TV show filler and why they've bastardaized it so much in the process is that with anime filler, there's an implicit contract to basically not impact the actual material in any significant way or recontextualize events, and so that often just results in complete fluff from a group of writers that are already a step removed from the actual creative process of the story they're adapting; that's why Anime filler tends to turn character into complete and utter caricatures (Let's make Goku really dumb! Chi-Chi REALLY mean! Krillin really pathetic! Depending on where we think Toriyama is taking the story, let's make Vegeta either super evil or co Stanley remind you hes actually a big softie, and of course let's make Roshi SUPER rapey!)

Since they're at somebody else's mercy rather than the guys doing the story week to week, there's only so much they feel they can do. And as weve seen with DB, branching out too much will get you burned by the author if he doesn't really care too much about what youre doing lol. The only time amime filler was useful was when they pretty much were operating like an traditional TV writers room, where they already know the road map ahead and so the filler is an opportunity to expand on things and show stuff we didnt see even if we dont "need" to, or even foreshadow future events (ie Tien's early cameo and Piccolo saving a mother and her son before the tournament to show he has a capacity to be good somewhere in there even if he was just taking an opportunity to gauge his skill lol)

Tangent, but I've seen people claim Toei's Gohan training filler is ruined by him freezing up against Nappa but I disagree. The story may not explicitly address it, but that that's stage fright 101, and besides; the manga already showed us Gohan very comfortable and capable of handling himself in the wild, which was why Piccolo even decided he was ready to train in the first place. But all the training in the world isn't going to prepare you for the moment you're up against a 15 foot tall tank that just punched a guy's arm off and survived a point-blank explosion. And I think Piccolo quickly regaining his faith in Gohan confirms that the bravery was already there, he just got spooked by the real thing.

[JulieYBM]

I have to wonder how much of the modern English-speaking anime fan's use of the term 'filler' is impacted by the same anti-censorship/anti-Americanization sentiments that were cultivated in the 1990s and early 2000s, back when a lot of the Japanese animated series being viewed by Millenials were getting the violence, sexuality and Japanese attributes removed and few of these series had easily accessible unedited releases—official or not. "That doesn't reflect the original version" or whatever now doesn't just refer to changing onigiri to donuts or giving Japanese characters 'American' names, it now means, "This isn't like the manga!!" to some.

[Yellow Flower King]

I have to wonder how much of the modern English-speaking anime fan's use of the term 'filler' is impacted by the same anti-censorship/anti-Americanization sentiments that were cultivated in the 1990s and early 2000s, back when a lot of the Japanese animated series being viewed by Millenials were getting the violence, sexuality and Japanese attributes removed and few of these series had easily accessible unedited releases—official or not. "That doesn't reflect the original version" or whatever now doesn't just refer to changing onigiri to donuts or giving Japanese characters 'American' names, it now means, "This isn't like the manga!!" to some.

Fun Fact, in the Ocean dub that Robot Oji-san episode is merged out of existance. So in a way Ocean dub is the sort of "Plot only/Manga Only!" cut that fans wanted lol.

[MasenkoHA]

I have to wonder how much of the modern English-speaking anime fan's use of the term 'filler' is impacted by the same anti-censorship/anti-Americanization sentiments that were cultivated in the 1990s and early 2000s, back when a lot of the Japanese animated series being viewed by Millenials were getting the violence, sexuality and Japanese attributes removed and few of these series had easily accessible unedited releases—official or not. "That doesn't reflect the original version" or whatever now doesn't just refer to changing onigiri to donuts or giving Japanese characters 'American' names, it now means, "This isn't like the manga!!" to some.

Fun Fact, in the Ocean dub that Robot Oji-san episode is merged out of existance. So in a way Ocean dub is the sort of "Plot only/Manga Only!" cut that fans wanted lol.

The problem was the original Funi/Ocean dub wasn’t using the manga as a guide so they would remove important scenes from the manga too. Kami explaining to Mr.Popo that he’s sensing that the new Piccolo isn’t as evil and reiterating his connection to Piccolo for those who missed the previous two arcs is completely removed. Making him die when Piccolo dies just something that happens because reasons.

Although by complete accident that dub gets a more faithful rendition of the start of the Saiyan arc than even Kai by opening up with Raditz landing on earth so there’s that

[Yellow Flower King]

I have to wonder how much of the modern English-speaking anime fan's use of the term 'filler' is impacted by the same anti-censorship/anti-Americanization sentiments that were cultivated in the 1990s and early 2000s, back when a lot of the Japanese animated series being viewed by Millenials were getting the violence, sexuality and Japanese attributes removed and few of these series had easily accessible unedited releases—official or not. "That doesn't reflect the original version" or whatever now doesn't just refer to changing onigiri to donuts or giving Japanese characters 'American' names, it now means, "This isn't like the manga!!" to some.

Fun Fact, in the Ocean dub that Robot Oji-san episode is merged out of existance. So in a way Ocean dub is the sort of "Plot only/Manga Only!" cut that fans wanted lol.

The problem was the original Funi/Ocean dub wasn’t using the manga as a guide so they would remove important scenes from the manga too. Kami explaining to Mr.Popo that he’s sensing that the new Piccolo isn’t as evil and reiterating his connection to Piccolo for those who missed the previous two arcs is completely removed. Making him die when Piccolo dies just something that happens because reasons.

Although by complete accident that dub gets a more faithful rendition of the start of the Saiyan arc than even Kai by opening up with Raditz landing on earth so there’s that

Wait, wait, WHAT? Really? Wow I was just kidding. I didnt know the manga opened that way! And Chris Psaros apparently didnt either! (He explicitly pointed the alteration was not the intention of the Anime director!)

[Hulk10]

I'm a little worried about the upcoming Beerus film............

[Yellow Flower King]

I'm a little worried about the upcoming Beerus film............

It is not a film it is a TV Series.

[Hulk10]

Okay then TV show, but I'm still worried about it. Exactly what are they going to change and include?