Which was the better sequel: GT, Super, or Daima ?

[funrush]

Well, GT is the only one of the 3 that's actually a sequel, the other 2 are side stories taking place before EoZ so GT wins by default. The end.

Jk lol. Out of these 3 possible timelines Super is the "correct" one to me.

• GT is generally a mixed bag, I enjoyed the Black Star Dragon Ball arc and the Shadow Dragons arc. The idea of the heroes getting punished for using the Dragon Balls too much is a fascinating premise. I didn't care so much for the Baby/Super 17 stuff though. Animation wasn't blowing me away either. I also don't get why the series insists on keeping Goku as a child the entire way through. To give the middle arcs some credit I liked the part in Super 17 when we get to see a lot of the old villains come back from Hell. GT's version of Super Saiyan 4 looks super cool too.

• Super I thoroughly enjoyed and made fond memories discussing it with friends or seeing the films in theaters. The story was derivative and the animation of the TV show tended to be below average but overall it felt like a respectable and entertaining continuation of the story. Beerus and Whis are iconic at this point. Goku Black is great too. I like most of the new characters. Goku being forced to team up with Freeza was crazy. The DBS Broly movie is probably the best looking Dragon Ball thing ever made and I watched it in theaters multiple times when it came out. I like that the Toriyama comedy pokes its head out at times and it doesn't take itself too seriously, although I do think it's a bit too conservative when it comes to body horror/gore/blood compared to Z. The worldbuilding is interesting. The forms introduced near the end of the series like Ultra Instinct and Ultra Ego are an interesting evolution of the usual "Saiyans unlock this list of forms in order" thing we're used to.

• Daima I think is probably the most "Toriyama" visually. Toriyama spent much of his life designing for Dragon Quest and this show kinda feels like a combination/culmination of the things he did, an RPG adventure through the demon world. It kinda takes on the tone of original Dragon Ball while also heavily drawing from GT for its concepts. The fights were scarce but dope when they did occur and I loved Kuu and Duu. Animation was gorgeous. The main thing holding this back from me picking it is that it's only one arc long, it just ends. Solid arc though.

[GurixDr34]

In theory there are only two sequels GT made by Toei in the 90s and Daima and Super both made by Toriyama and both Daima and Super should be in the same timeline

[MCDaveG]

I am looking forward to revisit this discussion after Super 2.0 is out. Super was always my dream sequel that I wanted since childhood and being bit dissapointed with GT sidelining everyone and ending on sour note. Daima took the cake and Super now has a huge opportunity to actually be good and fix everything.

[The Dark Knight]

I am looking forward to revisit this discussion after Super 2.0 is out. Super was always my dream sequel that I wanted since childhood and being bit dissapointed with GT sidelining everyone and ending on sour note. Daima took the cake and Super now has a huge opportunity to actually be good and fix everything.

Damn; Super 2.0 will be sequel #4. Hopefully they get it right this time.

[Bento-uri]

Daima felt too experimental and spinoff-ish for me, so it's not even in the running.

As a Vegeta fan, I'll have to pick GT for the simple reason that it respects the "closure" he had in Z.

Unlike in Super, Vegeta in GT kind of holds to his "Kakarot, You Are Number One!" admission. There's no real sense that he's renewing his bid to surpass Goku. In Super, he's too obsessed with hanging around Goku and training under the same people Goku is. In that regard, Vegeta in Super feels closer to HxH's Killua than his own DBZ self.

I get that Vegeta is a fan favorite, but that's no reason to give him the kind of constant screen time that contradicts his very nature. He was doing extremely well in Z without hogging the camera.

Since we're discussing closures, I have to say the same about Piccolo and Krillin. At the end of Cell Games, Toriyama made the decision (for better or worse) that these two beloved characters can no longer compete with the Saiyans. So they're both pretty useless in Buu Saga. DBGT holds to that, even if it's cruel for those characters.

Super seems to "apologize" for Toriyama's decision by powering Piccolo up to make him relevant again. Krillin and Roshi, too, to a lesser degree.

I'm no lover of GT (it hardly did anything right), but it earns credit for not being nearly as fan service-y as Super.

[The Dark Knight]

Daima felt too experimental and spinoff-ish for me, so it's not even in the running.

As a Vegeta fan, I'll have to pick GT for the simple reason that it respects the "closure" he had in Z.

Unlike in Super, Vegeta in GT kind of holds to his "Kakarot, You Are Number One!" admission. There's no real sense that he's renewing his bid to surpass Goku. In Super, he's too obsessed with hanging around Goku and training under the same people Goku is. In that regard, Vegeta in Super feels closer to HxH's Killua than his own DBZ self.

I get that Vegeta is a fan favorite, but that's no reason to give him the kind of constant screen time that contradicts his very nature. He was doing extremely well in Z without hogging the camera.

The problem with GT's characterization of Vegeta is that he gave up fighting and getting stronger, something that was never implied in his #1 speech. Super's portrayal of him leans too much into his Cell arc self for my own liking, but continuing to fight and get stronger actually lines up with his character arc in the Buu saga, as changing his ways has enabled him to get far stronger than he ever thought possible. I will say that Daima probably handled Vegeta's characterization better than Super did, as despite catching up to Goku with Ssj3 (temporarily) he never shit talked anyone. There's a line in GT before he gets Ssj4 where he says he wants the form to see how far he can push himself, rather than to simply catch up to Goku; this is something that he should've been doing since the beginning, rather than just sitting around in Ssj2, if he even still had that in GT.

[Kenji]

The problem with GT's characterization of Vegeta is that he gave up fighting and getting stronger, something that was never implied in his #1 speech.

He didn't, there's a recap episode in the last arc of GT where he muses about how far he's come and how he's now training and fighting to know his own limits without wanting to surpass Goku.

[PhantomSaiyan]

He didn't, there's a recap episode in the last arc of GT where he muses about how far he's come and how he's now training and fighting to know his own limits without wanting to surpass Goku.

Yeah but he's still stuck at puny ssj2 so that arguably makes him look even more lame, because how did he keep training all these years and still stayed so far behind?

Keeping him near Goku's level has been one of the best decisions Super made as far as I'm concerned

[The Dark Knight]

He didn't, there's a recap episode in the last arc of GT where he muses about how far he's come and how he's now training and fighting to know his own limits without wanting to surpass Goku.

He was still stuck with Ssj2 even though it had been 15 years since the fight with Buu. If he was training, he wasn't doing a good job, as his Daima counterpart unlocked it within a year of first seeing it.

[JulieYBM]

Don't approach Vegeta's transformations from an in-universe stance. It's pointless. If they wanted you to think that Vegeta was weaker, it would be explicitly stated in the series. This isn't a that kind of show where any of this shit is taken 100% seriously. Vegeta doesn't have new transformations because he doesn't have new transformations.

[Kenji]

He does get SSJ4 by the end of the series, and Baby!Vegeta could still kick Goku's ass multiple times, so...

[JulieYBM]

He does get SSJ4 by the end of the series, and Baby!Vegeta could still kick Goku's ass multiple times, so...

Super Saiyan 4? I think I went to college with her.

[The Dark Knight]

He does get SSJ4 by the end of the series.

He did so little with it they shouldn't have even bothered giving it to him. We had twin dragons, so why not introduce them sooner and have him and Goku tag team them ?

[JulieYBM]

He does get SSJ4 by the end of the series.

He did so little with it they shouldn't have even bothered giving it to him. We had twin dragons, so why not introduce them sooner and have him and Goku tag team them ?

Capitalism is evil and should die, is why.

Dragon Ball GT clearly suffered from a lack of planning and awful conditions thst made the series have no eesl cohesion or vision.

[The Dark Knight]

Dragon Ball GT clearly suffered from a lack of planning and awful conditions thst made the series have no eesl cohesion or vision.

The producers of GT outright said that viewers only cared about Goku, and that no secondary character was allowed to outshine him at any moment. The only thing more planning would've accomplished was even more Goku time, as that was the priority from day.

[Bento-uri]

Keeping him near Goku's level has been one of the best decisions Super made as far as I'm concerned

Keeping him near Goku's level is logical. Keeping him near Goku's person is what baffles. He may not hate Goku as much as he did before, but it's still out of character for him to follow Goku around.

During Kid Buu Saga, Goku and Vegeta were forced by circumstances to work closely together, which naturally inspired lots of humor and banter. It was refreshing to see Vegeta let down his guard for once.

But in Super, the jokes and the banter become the status quo. Goku and Vegeta aren't rivals, they're two characters in a "Buddy Cop" story.

[Kenji]

Dragon Ball GT clearly suffered from a lack of planning and awful conditions thst made the series have no eesl cohesion or vision.

The producers of GT outright said that viewers only cared about Goku, and that no secondary character was allowed to outshine him at any moment. The only thing more planning would've accomplished was even more Goku time, as that was the priority from day.

Both of these are very much true, but the topic was whether Vegeta's characterization was kept consistent from Z to GT.
The execution of it and why he doesn't get new transformations or time to shine is a whole 'nother matter.

[JulieYBM]

Vegeta being less of an aggressive and insecure man trying to prove his manhood made him one of the few well-done parts of GT. He was definitely a breath of fresh air.

[PhantomSaiyan]

Keeping him near Goku's level is logical. Keeping him near Goku's person is what baffles. He may not hate Goku as much as he did before, but it's still out of character for him to follow Goku around.

During Kid Buu Saga, Goku and Vegeta were forced by circumstances to work closely together, which naturally inspired lots of humor and banter. It was refreshing to see Vegeta let down his guard for once.

But in Super, the jokes and the banter become the status quo. Goku and Vegeta aren't rivals, they're two characters in a "Buddy Cop" story.

I don't have a problem with them becoming closer, it's the natural progression of things, it makes sense that two of the last surviving Saiyans wound end up being training buddies, and it's a sign of character development for Vegeta.

Vegeta still hating Goku after the Buu saga would be incredibly redundant and annoying. The dynamic they have going on now is perfect

[super michael]

Dragon Ball GT clearly suffered from a lack of planning and awful conditions thst made the series have no eesl cohesion or vision.

The producers of GT outright said that viewers only cared about Goku, and that no secondary character was allowed to outshine him at any moment. The only thing more planning would've accomplished was even more Goku time, as that was the priority from day.

I don't know why they couldn't let Vegeta keep his tail, his tail and SSJ4 was temporary. Gotenks never appeared in GT, since Goten and Trunks never did fusion in any saga and while possessed.
I don't know why the producers thought people only cared about Goku and no one else.

So by the end of GT these are the characters limits:

Goku - SSJ4
Vegeta - SSJ2 without Bulma machine (SSJ4 and the tail is temporary)
Gohan - SSJ2
Goten - SSJ
Trunks - SSJ
Pan - Base
Bra - Not a fighter