Did Super use concepts from fan works?

[Grimlock]

It feels like there's an unofficial rule where you can't have Goku himself become evil. Like, he's "poisonous" (which is arguably different than "evil") but also incorruptable?

If there is, Dragon Ball Heroes laughs at it (thank Dende).

[JulieYBM]

It feels like there's an unofficial rule where you can't have Goku himself become evil. Like, he's "poisonous" (which is arguably different than "evil") but also incorruptable?

I was initially hoping Goku Black was Goku himself either from another timeline or being mind-controlled by someone (because I wanted to see evil Goku vs dbs Vegeta), but once Zamasu started pontificating as Goku Black and really theatrically playing it up I thought the writers made the better choice.

Zamasu and Goku Black were a highlight for me in Super. The chemistry! They're like an effective and genuinely threatening version of Team Rocket.

I hope Super Kai doesn't do them dirty.

If Gokuu becomes evil in an alternate timeline, it means that the main Gokuu has to confront that possibility for evil within him. Challenging Gokuu and the viewers like that seems like something that Toriyama would avoid writing because it would actually involve needing to be critical of how he's written Gokuu and then force Gokuu to change. Toriyama doesn't want change, he just wants the illusion of doing something edgy, hence why Gokuu is 'poisonous', but never ever really comes of it.

[kiarasuraru]

Dragon Ball is kind of in that same trap Pokemon is.
There's just SO much fan content exploring anything and everything that at this point it is borderline impossible for newly made official content to not overlap or be similar to something XxXs3phir0thTh3Sl4Y3rxXx came up and posted on his Deviantart 17 years ago.

[The Dark Knight]

Dragon Ball is kind of in that same trap Pokemon is.
There's just SO much fan content exploring anything and everything that at this point it is borderline impossible for newly made official content to not overlap or be similar to something XxXs3phir0thTh3Sl4Y3rxXx came up and posted on his Deviantart 17 years ago.

I can't speak for Pokemon, but as far as Dragon Ball is concerned, it's not even trying to be original most of the time; that's the problem. Freeza and other classic villains returning, alternate universes with Saiyans on them, and an evil Goku are as unoriginal as stories can be. These stories go beyond just being unoriginal, they're flat out lazy. When the people involved actually put their mind to it, they can come up with pretty original stories, like Battle of Gods and Daima. Unfortunately, more often than not, the people in charge of the franchise don't put their best foot forward, which is why we end up with crap like Minus, Resurrection F, and Granola.

[JulieYBM]

Being original doesn't mean a story will be good, though. Daima was half-baked and ended with an emotional dud that dragged its feet. Meanwhile, the Tournament of Power brought back Freeza after the terrible Resurrection F storyline and managed to not only make his reintroduction feel weighty, but the entire arc culminated in his teaming up with Gokuu and #17 in a moment that felt like actual development and moving forward for the three characters.

[The Dark Knight]

Being original doesn't mean a story will be good, though.

I agree with this. GT was more original than Super was for example, but Super managed to do a better job at bringing its ideas to life, despite their lack of originality. I think this entire topic would be more interested if it asked the question of whether originality or execution were more important for a story's success.

[MasenkoHA]

Re: Tullece and Ginyu!Goku

It really doesn’t matter that Tullece isn’t literally evil Goku he was conceptualized as “what if Goku hadn’t hit his head.” He is evil Goku in the abstract.

And you can argue Goku Black was done better than Ginyu!Goku it doesn’t change we already had an evil body switch plot.


Really the point is “evil Goku” has been a thing since 1990 and not some popular fandom thing that Toriyama or Shueisha or Toyotaro or Toei borrowed from fans. Evil twins/dark mirror images/and body switch with a villain plots are also some of the most common tropes in genre fiction. If Dragon Ball hadn’t already done it during Namek and the third Z movie they would have done it by Super without even glancing at the fandom.

[The Dark Knight]

I personally wouldn't have had an issue with Super giving us an "Evil Goku" if it hadn't been done before, twice. I think the concept of a Kai who goes rogue out of a misguided sense of bringing justice to the world is strong enough on its own; we didn't need an Evil Goku and we sure as hell didn't need Future Trunks, as these two felt more like boxes on a list that needed to be ticked, rather than points integral to telling that story.

[BernardoCairo]

In my opinion, the only truly "evil Goku" is Cell, since he is literally a distorted reflection of Goku in many aspects. I don't consider Ginyu or Zamasu to be "Goku." They are different people who stole his body at some point.

[kiarasuraru]

I mean, something being original is not guaranteed to be good but I don't think being trapped in endless nostalgiabait hell I clapped because I saw thing from my childhood is ideal either.
Well, look at the good side. At least we get nostalgiabait from all sort of times and places instead of just being Kanto Syndrome like with so many franchises. You could argue Freeza is that though.