The Ultimate Fate of DBS

[ma0u]

Guy.. Do you need a source to know that 2 + 2 equals 4 too?
If they are adapting Moro, who is Shueisha character, then they got permission from Shueisha, objectively speaking. Are you being obtuse on purpose just to ragebait?
It doesn't matter if they don't adapt the manga 1:1, if they use Moro, and all of the manga original characters, then it counts as using Shueisha material, and that needs their fucking permission to happen. Wake up dude.

Shueisha is not involved with any upcoming Dragon Ball series/movies/animation projects, and hasn't been since even before Toriyama's passing (as Shueisha also wasn't involved with Daima). Toyotaro might release a few more chapters with whatever left over pre-2024 notes Toriyama left behind with Toyotaro, and Shueisha will continue receiving points and a percentages of the IP gross, otherwise CC Tokyo is not coordinating with Shueisha for any of the new upcoming projects, as none of these projects include any manga material.

As of 2024 CC Tokyo owns the majority share, and can work with any Dragon Ball content that Toriyama signed or created up until his death. Toriyama's passing and the size of his previously sold/rented shares being revived upon being passed down to Iyoku is what triggered Shueisha's court case of ownership stipulation against CC Tokyo once they became the new primary share holder (which Toriyama and Iyoku skillfully setup right under Shueisha's nose).

So again.. all Shueisha owns under the IP is future Dragon Ball manga releases. Otherwise believing CC Tokyo has any interest in giving Shueisha a break or leeway for the sake of more Toyotaro manga material is a bit silly.

2+2=4, and dealing with 21st century Shueisha and giving them back any control is simply not worth the trouble or hassle at this point for CC Tokyo (especially after everything CC Tokyo went through to break ties with them).

And how is this relevant to anything I've said? Are you just saying random things now?

I said 'So Moro is being animated, what's about it?'.

No one is denying the amount of profit to be made in these upcoming 21st century Dragon Ball releases that CC Tokyo is remaking (no matter how many times it's been previously released—like with Beerus). I was simply emphasizing that none of this material will be considered 'new' or telling any actual new stories (unlike all previous Dragon Ball releases—save for Beerus and Golden Freeza saga, which were remakes of BoG and Res F), which will indefinitely hinder potential social media and box market hype for their releases.

p.s. Legal situations like the one between Shueisha and CC Tokyo can be controversial, and notice it can spike a multitude of different emotions. Understand I'm not here to offend anyone.

I do not represent or work for CC Tokyo, Shueisha, or any anime/manga related company, so the belittling comments and short tempered tone really isn't necessary. We're all Dragon Ball fans here, sharing our knowledge and trying to establish what's in for the future of Dragon Ball, now that Iyoku and CC Tokyo are at the helm.

Thanks
-ma0u

[PhantomSaiyan]

If Moro, a character Iyoku had no access to, is being animated, it means Shueisha gave them permission to do it, and that's the end of that.

You can cope and write huge paragraphs trying to deviate and avoid the point all you want, but that is facts right there.

[ma0u]

If Moro, a character Iyoku had no access to, is being animated, it means Shueisha gave them permission to do it, and that's the end of that.

Dragon Ball Super is a manga written by Toriyama and illustrated by Toyotaro. I understand what you're trying to argue—you believe that because the Moro arc was mostly created by Toyotaro that Toriyama and CC Tokyo would have any less ownership over those chapters of the DBS manga; however, that isn't how it works.

Even though Toriyama had little to no involvement with the Moro arc, CC Tokyo have the majority ownership over the distribution and creation of all future Dragon Ball anime/movies/games/toys, which also includes the recreation of any Dragon Ball story—that means any Dragon Ball franchise/release that's licensed with Toriyama as the creator.

So CC Tokyo can't make or redistribute any Dragon Ball manga, but any Dragon Ball material created by Toriyama (that includes characters and stories which only exist on the manga timeline) can still be remade by CC Tokyo into material for film, games, toys, whatever.

If something turns around and CC Tokyo decide 'Hey Shueisha, we're willing to talk again and are interested in coordinating some future projects and releases with Toyotaro's manga' then that may change; though the practicality and likelihood of CC Tokyo going for that—at least in the near future—seems unlikely (imo).

[PhantomSaiyan]

Dragon Ball Super is a manga written by Toriyama and illustrated by Toyotaro. I understand what you're trying to argue—you believe that because the Moro arc was mostly created by Toyotaro that Toriyama and CC Tokyo would have any less ownership over those chapters of the DBS manga; however, that isn't how it works.

No, that's exactly how it works, they could not use Moro if Shueisha didn't approve, no matter what you say. If they could have used Moro at anytime like you think, they would have done it immediately instead of taking up time with shows like Daima, which were CLEARLY made just to use the property in animation while they worked out a deal for the Manga exclusive Shueisha material.

You have a fundamental misunderstanding of how any of this works behind the scenes.

So CC Tokyo can't make or redistribute any Dragon Ball manga, but any Dragon Ball material created by Toriyama (that includes characters and stories which only exist on the manga timeline) can still be remade by CC Tokyo into material for film, games, toys, whatever.

Incorrect, not true in the slightest, if what you say is true, there would have been Manga exclusive merchandise for Moro and Granola characters, and they would have been present in videogames, yet they didn't do it, because they couldn't. They can only do that after they animate them, and to animate them (which they are doing now) it means that they worked an agreement with Shueisha.

If something turns around and CC Tokyo decide 'Hey Shueisha, we're willing to talk again and are interested in coordinating some future projects and releases with Toyotaro's manga' then that may change; though the practicality and likelihood of CC Tokyo going for that—at least in the near future—seems unlikely (imo).

"unlikely" yoy say, while they are literally animating Moro, which is Shueisha material. Are you kidding me? Is this ragebait? There's no way you just said something so stupid, it's like you're in denial about reality.
Never seen someone be so confidently wrong about something,

[ma0u]

No, that's exactly how it works, they could not use Moro if Shueisha didn't approve, no matter what you say. If they could have used Moro at anytime like you think, they would have done it immediately instead of taking up time with shows like Daima, which were CLEARLY made just to use the property in animation while they worked out a deal for the Manga exclusive Shueisha material.

You're about 2 years late with that logic. This is what people were saying when Shueisha was taking Iyoku to court.

The only thing Shueisha is agreeing to do at this point is to take their earned share and percentage. With previously manga exclusive material like Galactic Patrol and Moro becoming animation, income is inevitable.

Incorrect, not true in the slightest, if what you say is true, there would have been Manga exclusive merchandise for Moro and Granola characters, and they would have been present in videogames, yet they didn't do it, because they couldn't. They can only do that after they animate them, and to animate them (which they are doing now) it means that they worked an agreement with Shueisha.

I don't know if you think Iyoku's CC Tokyo is now in a position that's answering to Shueisha despite being the primary share holder in charge of these upcoming series releases, or if you think there's still some court battle going on, or what. Shueisha is now clearly cooperating with CC Tokyo since Jan 2026 when Shueisha hosted the Genkidamatsuri which announced the animated releases of Chapter 1-4 (Beerus series) and Chapter 43-67 (Galactic Patrol series) material back to back. That alone should dimiss any false notions you have of post-Genkidamatsuri Shueisha being the restrictive hand on how or when Chapter 43+ material is in any way recreated and redistributed by CC Tokyo in the future.

[PhantomSaiyan]

The only thing Shueisha is agreeing to do at this point is to take their earned share and percentage. With previously manga exclusive material like Galactic Patrol and Moro becoming animation, income is inevitable.

You're just saying what I said, and pretending like it's something different. The point I was making is that Shueisha had to give permission for manga material to become animation, Iyoku couldn't just do it on a whim, they had to actually sort things out, and that took time.

I don't know if you think Iyoku's CC Tokyo is now in a position that's answering to Shueisha despite being the primary share holder in charge of these upcoming series releases, or if you think there's still some court battle going on, or what. Shueisha is now clearly cooperating with CC Tokyo since Jan 2026 when Shueisha hosted the Genkidamatsuri which announced the animated releases of Chapter 1-4 (Beerus series) and Chapter 43-67 (Galactic Patrol series) material back to back. That alone should dimiss any false notions you have of post-Genkidamatsuri Shueisha being the restrictive hand on how or when Chapter 43+ material is in any way recreated and redistributed by CC Tokyo in the future.

My guy, you're the one who said that it's unlikely that the two of them will work together, to which I replied that they are indeed working together, and now you're trying to make it seem like I'm the one who said they don't work together? Are you sober rn? Or is this just really bad gaslighting?

I never said Shueisha is restrictive NOW, no shit I didn't, I'm the one who's been telling you that since they are animating Moro it means they came to an agreement. I'm the one freaking tellinng you that animated Moro = no legal battle now, everything is settled.

The restrictiveness came before that, hence why Manga exclusive characters weren't allowed to be made into toys, or even appear in videogames.

You're not reading, or understanding any of what I'm saying if you think that I implied that there is a court battle going on right now.
Read carefully, because right now it really looks like you're being obtuse for ragebaiting purposes.

[ma0u]

You're just saying what I said, and pretending like it's something different. The point I was making is that Shueisha had to give permission for manga material to become animation, Iyoku couldn't just do it on a whim, they had to actually sort things out, and that took time.

That makes no sense—Shueisha receiving their entitled income share and Shueisha 'giving CC Tokyo permission' are in no way congruent statements.

My guy, you're the one who said that it's unlikely that the two of them will work together, to which I replied that they are indeed working together, and now you're trying to make it seem like I'm the one who said they don't work together? Are you sober rn? Or is this just really bad gaslighting?

Again, no, they aren't working together on any creative projects. Shueisha was always entitled to a share for the IP, even if at this point is a much smaller amount. You were trying to argue 'Iyoku couldn't just do it on a whim, they had to actually sort things out, and that took time.' as if Shueisha gained any leverage back or reacquired any previous shares in the court battle.

Shueisha is now just hosting events like the Genkidamatsuri, otherwise Shueisha's creative team has not been involved with any animated releases since DBS Super Hero. Shueisha was not involved with Daima, just as Shueisha will also not have any creative leverage over CC Tokyo releases and the upcoming Dragon Ball anime/movie/toy/game releases.

I never said Shueisha is restrictive NOW, no shit I didn't, I'm the one who's been telling you that since they are animating Moro it means they came to an agreement. I'm the one freaking tellinng you that animated Moro = no legal battle now, everything is settled.

Yes, you have been arguing like it's still 2024 and Shueisha actually has any legal leverage or options other than to cooperate with CC Tokyo for the past 2 days :\. The Dragon Ball Room no longer resides under Shueisha, and now operates under CC Tokyo.

The restrictiveness came before that, hence why Manga exclusive characters weren't allowed to be made into toys, or even appear in videogames.

And you've been responding to me as if this is still a factor as of 2026—which it's not.

You're not reading, or understanding any of what I'm saying if you think that I implied that there is a court battle going on right now.
Read carefully, because right now it really looks like you're being obtuse for ragebaiting purposes.

Maybe scroll back and read the comments that you were trying to argue (e.g. 'If Moro, a character Iyoku had no access to, is being animated, it means Shueisha gave them permission to do it, and that's the end of that.'). < Even you realize this is false now.

I've been kindly answering your questions, while you continue to reply to me like you're ready to attack me through your screen if I say anything else about CC Tokyo being the primary share holder. There's really nothing else to discuss at this point until Iyoku releases more information about these upcoming Dragon Ball releases.

[PhantomSaiyan]

I've been kindly answering your questions, while you continue to reply to me like you're ready to attack me through your screen if I say anything else about CC Tokyo being the primary share holder. There's really nothing else to discuss at this point until Iyoku releases more information about these upcoming Dragon Ball releases.

It's not attacking, it's frustration at you failing to actually address my arguments. I keep re explaining the same things over and over, and somehow you're still understanding them wrong.
It's getting to the point where I don't even know if you're trolling, ragebaiting, or genuinely not getting it, it's hopeless with you either way

[ma0u]

It's not attacking, it's frustration at you failing to actually address my arguments. I keep re explaining the same things over and over, and somehow you're still understanding them wrong.

I wouldn't want to see how you respond to people who aren't mostly polite and formal... I explained everything as clear as day for you. If there's anything from my last statement you wish to argue, then please cite it.

it's hopeless with you either way

You are trying to argue that 'Shueisha had to give permission for manga material to become animation' and 'they are indeed working together' which was indeed false. Hosting the Genkidamatsuri was not a creative effort and Shueisha's creative team has not been involved with any animated releases since DBS Super Hero. Shueisha has yet to coordinate any manga releases with the new Dragon Ball Room in the near future.

You can't go one response without calling me a 'troll' or someone whose feeding you 'ragebait' (and I don't know why), while all I've done is answer questions for you. You act as if I have anything to do with how the case was handled by Tokyo District Court and how the IP is currently being handled with CC Tokyo. I'm simply citing basic clear as day information to you in the most detailed yet simplistic and easy to understand manner.

[PhantomSaiyan]

I wouldn't want to see how you respond to people who aren't mostly polite and formal... I explained everything as clear as day for you. If there's anything from my last statement you wish to argue, then please cite it.

I'd rather deal with straight hostility rather than someone who does not understand a word of what I say, while pretending to have all the answers despite being very confidently wrong. I've had enough.

Citing anything would only result in a response filled with advance level gaslighting, and that's not something I particularly want right now

You act as if I have anything to do with how the case was handled by Tokyo District Court and how the IP is currently being handled with CC Tokyo. I'm simply citing basic clear as day information to you in the most detailed yet simplistic and easy to understand manner.

Gaslighting such as this. When did I say you have anything to do with the case exactly? See? You're not understanding my actual arguments and are just making up random shit, pretend I've said it, and then respond with some more random shit. I'm tired of this.

[VegettoEX]

As an outsider (but also an administrator), I keep reading these posts between you two... and none of it makes sense. I literally can't parse at all why you're upset with each other or what the issue even is.

Consider that as you explore why you feel you're not being understood by the other party here -- because it extends beyond that.

[PhantomSaiyan]

As an outsider (but also an administrator), I keep reading these posts between you two... and none of it makes sense. I literally can't parse at all why you're upset with each other or what the issue even is.

Consider that as you explore why you feel you're not being understood by the other party here -- because it extends beyond that.

The only reason I'm upset here is because I feel like I tried to explain things as best as I could, and when I go to check on the response, it's either addressing things I wasn't even talking about, misunderstanding my points entirely, or extrapolating absurd conclusions about what I supposedly "said" or "implied" based on god knows what, to the point where I (maybe mistakingly) felt like I was being ragebaited on purpose

I should have probably dropped it after the first couple of replies, because it's obviously a back and forth that was going nowhere from the start, but I'll admit, being misinterpreted is a pet peeve of mine, so I just kept going even though I shouldn't have, and even lost sight of the original point despite re explaining it over and over

[ma0u]

As an outsider (but also an administrator), I keep reading these posts between you two... and none of it makes sense. I literally can't parse at all why you're upset with each other or what the issue even is.

Consider that as you explore why you feel you're not being understood by the other party here -- because it extends beyond that.

I was just explaining where Akio Iyoku and Toriyama's company CC Tokyo stands as the current primary share holder and new home for the Dragon Ball Room, while PhantomSaiyan was trying to argue that Shueisha still hold a distinct level of hierarchy and final say in CC Tokyo's Dragon Ball releases.

I know how some people are about the idea of CC Tokyo taking over and Dragon Ball without Shueisha. Besides, this isn't the first time I've been apart of a CC Tokyo vs Shueisha discussion while hearing a few frustrated responses ;P

[PhantomSaiyan]

while PhantomSaiyan was trying to argue that Shueisha still hold a distinct level of hierarchy and final say in CC Tokyo's Dragon Ball releases.

Proving my point that you didn't understand a word of what I was trying to say. Like I said, hopeless

[ma0u]

Proving my point that you didn't understand a word of what I was trying to say. Like I said, hopeless

Sorry if I misunderstood anything, I'm just going off what you said previously (here are some examples)

If they are adapting Moro, who is Shueisha character, then they got permission from Shueisha, objectively speaking.

If Moro, a character Iyoku had no access to, is being animated, it means Shueisha gave them permission to do it, and that's the end of that.

if what you say is true, there would have been Manga exclusive merchandise for Moro and Granola characters, and they would have been present in videogames, yet they didn't do it, because they couldn't. They can only do that after they animate them, and to animate them (which they are doing now) it means that they worked an agreement with Shueisha.

I'm just clarifying that Shueisha fought to keep the rights in court against CC Tokyo, which they lost because Toriyama was licensed as the Dragon Ball Super manga writer. Toriyama left all ownership rights for the Dragon Ball IP to Iyoku and his company, allowing CC Tokyo to assume ownership to all of his material; despite the outcome with their lawyers in cour, that doesn't immediately suggest that Shueisha isn't willing to work amicably with CC Tokyo.

Though minimally, Shueisha will still remain involved with events like the Genkidamatsuri. Unless I've missed something, Shueisha has yet to promote any of the upcoming material; though I could easily see that changing with Shueisha eventually softening up or coming up with something for them to host or promote.

[ma0u]

Personally I just think it's going to be nice to see Iyoku's own independent production company as the new home for the Dragon Ball creative team rather than a century old billion dollar publishing corporation like 21st century Shueisha.

Maybe some people believe Shueisha should still be in charge—Personally, I'm glad Toriyama was able to quietly spring the IP out from the grip of the century old largest publisher in Japan and into him and his friends own Dragon Ball dedicated company.

I myself am optimistic about the upcoming releases because of my hopes that CC Tokyo's Dragon Ball Room will have a revitalize level of creative freedom for more manga accurate character and story interpretations.

We'll have to wait and see

[PhantomSaiyan]

Sorry if I misunderstood anything, I'm just going off what you said previously (here are some examples)

None of what you quoted means "Shueisha still hold a distinct level of hierarchy and final say in CC Tokyo's Dragon Ball releases"

Or any of the other things you tried to pass off as if I had said them. You're just proving my point that you didn't understand what I was saying the entire time, it's exhausting.

[Young-Jah]

Sorry if I misunderstood anything, I'm just going off what you said previously (here are some examples)

None of what you quoted means "Shueisha still hold a distinct level of hierarchy and final say in CC Tokyo's Dragon Ball releases"

Or any of the other things you tried to pass off as if I had said them. You're just proving my point that you didn't understand what I was saying the entire time, it's exhausting.

You know, let’s just get VegettoEX to just block this post, cause this dude is either a ignoranus troll or something else.

Plus I’m getting tired of this business business BS.

[PhantomSaiyan]

You know, let’s just get VegettoEX to just block this post, cause this dude is either a ignoranus troll or something else.

Plus I’m getting tired of this business business BS.

That would be for the best. Although, I sure hope you're not referring to me when you say "this dude", but to the other user

[Young-Jah]

You know, let’s just get VegettoEX to just block this post, cause this dude is either a ignoranus troll or something else.

Plus I’m getting tired of this business business BS.

That would be for the best. Although, I sure hope you're not referring to me when you say "this dude", but to the other user

Yes, the other user