Where will the franchise go after Super?

[Skar]

Here's an interesting tidbit for you: Toyotaro said last year that he could continue without Toriyama, although he admitted it wouldn't be the easiest task, but he said whether or not he does isn't up to him.

That makes sense but I think that was before the dispute was resolved. We have news the anime is returning and manga arcs being adapted but still don't know when the manga will continue. I just mean it doesn't seem like there was a plan to churn out as much content as fans always predict and only the dispute delayed it.

[JulieYBM]

The manga will return when everyone involved decides that they want it to return. It's really no more complicated than that.

[Skar]

The manga will return when everyone involved decides that they want it to return. It's really no more complicated than that.

Well that kinda goes without saying about any product. The discussion is about if the dispute was the only reason for the delay and thinking about it as a fan and not an executive. I don't think it's as simple as them saying "ok the rights dispute as been resolved so Toyotaro go slap together some more dragon ball". The hiatus started after he adapted the last story Toriyama wrote so that could be a struggle for him. Toyotaro is also a big fan so I think there's still like a human aspect to his writing and might want to only continue with something he feels lives up to what Toriyama was involved in.

[JulieYBM]

The manga will return when everyone involved decides that they want it to return. It's really no more complicated than that.

Well that kinda goes without saying about any product. The discussion is about if the dispute was the only reason for the delay and thinking about it as a fan and not an executive. I don't think it's as simple as them saying "ok the rights dispute as been resolved so Toyotaro go slap together some more dragon ball". The hiatus started after he adapted the last story Toriyama wrote so that could be a struggle for him. Toyotaro is also a big fan so I think there's still like a human aspect to his writing and might want to only continue with something he feels lives up to what Toriyama was involved in.

I'm not saying that there isn't reasons beyond the rights dispute, either. I'm saying that there are inevitably going to be reasons that involve people above Toyotarou deciding when or if more of the manga continues.

Are the rights disputes over? Who knows. All we know is that a new animated project based on The Galactic Patrol is happening, but that doesn’t necessarily mean that Shueisha and Capsule Corp Tokyo are on speaking terms. The Dragon Ball Super comic from Toyotarou is just an adaption of Toriyama's outlines and character designs, just like all of the animated projects are. For all we know, this new animated project will have nothing to do with Toyotarou's adaption of said designs and outlines.

[funrush]

I've heard on here a few times that Toyotaro and Toriyama's working relationship with the manga-only arcs was that Toyotaro did almost all the designs/writing/drawing, pretty much all of it, but he ran his ideas through Toriyama to make sure he was still maintaining the spirit of Dragon Ball. So if Toyo truly did the Moro arc almost on his own, then continuing the manga is more possible than it seems, but where it will be tricky is he will constantly be thinking "Would Toriyama like this? What would Toriyama think about this?" And obviously he won't be able to get the answers to those questions.

[BernardoCairo]

I've heard on here a few times that Toyotaro and Toriyama's working relationship with the manga-only arcs was that Toyotaro did almost all the designs/writing/drawing, pretty much all of it, but he ran his ideas through Toriyama to make sure he was still maintaining the spirit of Dragon Ball. So if Toyo truly did the Moro arc almost on his own, then continuing the manga is more possible than it seems, but where it will be tricky is he will constantly be thinking "Would Toriyama like this? What would Toriyama think about this?" And obviously he won't be able to get the answers to those questions.

I think that's mainly true for Moro. Din't Toriyama help out with the Granolah arc? I think Toyotaro said so in 2021. Of course, it's still mostly his story and ideas, but I think Toriyama also came in with some suggestions.

[Vegard Aune]

I've heard on here a few times that Toyotaro and Toriyama's working relationship with the manga-only arcs was that Toyotaro did almost all the designs/writing/drawing, pretty much all of it, but he ran his ideas through Toriyama to make sure he was still maintaining the spirit of Dragon Ball. So if Toyo truly did the Moro arc almost on his own, then continuing the manga is more possible than it seems, but where it will be tricky is he will constantly be thinking "Would Toriyama like this? What would Toriyama think about this?" And obviously he won't be able to get the answers to those questions.

I think that's mainly true for Moro. Din't Toriyama help out with the Granolah arc? I think Toyotaro said so in 2021. Of course, it's still mostly his story and ideas, but I think Toriyama also came in with some suggestions.

According to the interview in volume 17, (which I understand was a condensed transcript of a video done in relation to volume 16?) Toyotaro came up with Granolah as a character, then him and Uchida the editor did a fair amount of discussion on what his story would entail, before they then suggested their first draft to Toriyama who in turn came up with more specific ideas for what Granolah's people would be like, and designing Toronbo, Monaito, the Sugarians etc... The way Toyotaro talked about it it does sound like the final story was a joint effort, but the initial idea was Toyotaro's. So yeah, the fact that Moro and presumably later Granolah are being animated at all probably means Capsule Corp and Shueisha have come to at least some sort of agreement, even if it's just a begrudging "We both stand to profit from these arcs being adapted so fine, we'll get out of each other's way on this specific project."

[JulieYBM]

I've heard on here a few times that Toyotaro and Toriyama's working relationship with the manga-only arcs was that Toyotaro did almost all the designs/writing/drawing, pretty much all of it, but he ran his ideas through Toriyama to make sure he was still maintaining the spirit of Dragon Ball. So if Toyo truly did the Moro arc almost on his own, then continuing the manga is more possible than it seems, but where it will be tricky is he will constantly be thinking "Would Toriyama like this? What would Toriyama think about this?" And obviously he won't be able to get the answers to those questions.

I think that's mainly true for Moro. Din't Toriyama help out with the Granolah arc? I think Toyotaro said so in 2021. Of course, it's still mostly his story and ideas, but I think Toriyama also came in with some suggestions.

According to the interview in volume 17, (which I understand was a condensed transcript of a video done in relation to volume 16?) Toyotaro came up with Granolah as a character, then him and Uchida the editor did a fair amount of discussion on what his story would entail, before they then suggested their first draft to Toriyama who in turn came up with more specific ideas for what Granolah's people would be like, and designing Toronbo, Monaito, the Sugarians etc... The way Toyotaro talked about it it does sound like the final story was a joint effort, but the initial idea was Toyotaro's. So yeah, the fact that Moro and presumably later Granolah are being animated at all probably means Capsule Corp and Shueisha have come to at least some sort of agreement, even if it's just a begrudging "We both stand to profit from these arcs being adapted so fine, we'll get out of each other's way on this specific project."

That kind of beckons the question, then, if Toyotarou's original idea being suggested to Toriyama is any different than Toriyama being asked to do a Broly film and said film not needing to give any control of the character to Koyama and Yamauchi. It would seem to me that Toyotarou's work would always automatically belong to Toriyama, especially if he took an initial idea and used it as part of his own story outline and that outline was then adapted by Toyotarou for his comic.

[mecha3000]

It will probably be something unexpected as Dragon Ball always surprises me. I didn't expect to see another series where Goku and his friends turned into kids, nor a Kai-ified Super for example. So I guess if Age 1000 is well received maybe they will finally explore Dragon Ball with brand new characters.

I wouldn't be surprised if Toriyama left behind some more vague notes about ideas that could be turned into fully fleshed plots, guess we'll just have to wait and see.

Good point. No one expected Broly to come back redone by Toriyama or for Toriyama to bring back the Red Ribbon Army in Super Hero, but those things ended up happening. I think that's what I love about Dragon Ball, the unpredictability, even if it's starting to get predictable by redoing things from its past. On that note, I agree with most of the replies and think an anime remake adapting all 42 volumes faithfully (with some changes such as offensive language/content like General Blue/Black cut out for modern sensitivity reasons AND manga-faithful colors for characters, etc). Funny enough, the Hans Zimmer tribute video (still can't believe he scored Dragon Ball at all) kind of seemed like it was hinting at a Dragon Ball/Z anime remake project. And between all the 2D animated scenes in Super Hero and Daima, I feel like they're strongly telling us "After Super, expect a full-on Dragon Ball remake!". If I remember right, didn't one of the animators even say that they REALLY want to work on a Dragon Ball anime remake in a 2D style (and specifically not a 3D style)?

And since I'll be 39 in 2036, hopefully if this remake happens then, I'll have kids of my own who I can introduce the series to! I bet that's already the case for some of the people on this forum now. I also saw someone on YouTube (TheAnimeLinguist, I think his name is) say that Dragon Ball Daima acted as a new "Dragon Ball Kai" to get new fans into the franchise. And then he said, "Dragon Ball Super 2.0" is basically going to be what Super was back in 2015 because of that. And I agree with that to a point, but in some ways, I feel like Daima (despite being based heavily on GT, which I love) acted more like a new "OG Dragon Ball" and that Super 2.0 will be a new "Dragon Ball Z". That's just how I feel about how they're handling things.

Again, if I remember right, I think Akio Iyoku even said that Toriyama de-aging the characters into kids helped with Akio's goal of introducing Dragon Ball to a new generation. Which as we're now seeing is perfect timing for Super: Beerus and beyond.

[SupremeKai25]

Hopefully it will end with Super. The ending of DBZ was a perfect conclusion to the Dragon Ball world and there shouldn't be a story set after it.

Also, Goku is the heart and soul of Dragon Ball and I have absolutely NO interest in a series where Goku is sidelined for these so-called "new gen" characters.

I want Goku to be the main character, forever and ever. Dragon Ball is Goku's story and everyone else are side characters/extras.

[super michael]

Hopefully it will end with Super. The ending of DBZ was a perfect conclusion to the Dragon Ball world and there shouldn't be a story set after it.

Also, Goku is the heart and soul of Dragon Ball and I have absolutely NO interest in a series where Goku is sidelined for these so-called "new gen" characters.

I want Goku to be the main character, forever and ever. Dragon Ball is Goku's story and everyone else are side characters/extras.

Other anime replace the main character with new characters, so why it is a problem for Dragon Ball to replace Goku as the main character?

Yu-Gi-Oh, Digimon, Pokémon, Naruto, Major, Seven Deadly Sins, Inuyasha, Inazuma, etc, they changed main character while the old main character take a back seat.

Pan looks like a great choice to replace Goku, at least from how she appears in DBS Super Hero and EOZ.

DBS anime ruined Goku as a character. That is a good reason to replace him.

[mecha3000]

Hopefully it will end with Super. The ending of DBZ was a perfect conclusion to the Dragon Ball world and there shouldn't be a story set after it.

Also, Goku is the heart and soul of Dragon Ball and I have absolutely NO interest in a series where Goku is sidelined for these so-called "new gen" characters.

I want Goku to be the main character, forever and ever. Dragon Ball is Goku's story and everyone else are side characters/extras.

I agree somewhat with this. Dragon Ball is definitely Goku's story and we saw that with how Toriyama changed his mind about Gohan taking over as the lead at the end of the manga. But that doesn't mean other characters can't shine in Goku's story. Look at the Cell arc, Gohan was the one who ended up saving the day. And in Super Hero, it's pretty much Piccolo's movie with Gohan sprinkled in for good measure. That's why I still think we need EoZ with Uub, Pan, Bulla, Goten, Trunks, and maybe even Marron getting more of the spotlight. Sure, Goku can still be featured throughout as the elder among them, but how cool would it be if just like Gohan defeating Cell, Pan or Uub get to beat the bad guy?

I just really hope that Toyotaro gets to try his hand at a post EoZ story. I feel like it's what most of the fans want at this point (besides the ones who just want Dragon Ball to end for good already). Also, I think the Black Freeza arc (or whatever it ends up being) should be Super's final arc. Toriyama had to have approved Black Freeza so it's only fitting that it ends Super definitively. And I think Akio and Toei know this, which is why they're remaking/remastering Super to milk it until it reaches Black Freeza. But after Black Freeza, I think Super should end and Toyotaro should start a post EoZ manga where he can put his own stamp on it without Toriyama's input. That way, if we don't like it, we can dismiss it in a GT sort of way since it's AFTER the manga. And they'll be less pressure on Toyotaro if he has a whole blank slate period to work with rather than within the timeframe of Toriyama's original manga.

But yeah, I do think after the EoZ story, they should let Dragon Ball go into a drought again until the 50th anniversary and reveal an anime remake adapting the entirety of Dragon Ball's original 42 volume manga run. Other than that, I would like a series set in the far future of Dragon Ball, but Age 1000 will already scratch that itch. All in all, though, I don't think Akio, Toei, and Shuiesha will ever let Dragon Ball truly die. I mean, look at what happened to Spongebob when Stephen Hillenburg died (even when he specifically didn't want Nickeloden to milk his series like that).

[super michael]

People got tired of Satoshi / Ash being the main character of Pokémon, especially with how Pokémon Black and White anime reset him. It was normally predictable that he would lose the tournament.

The same thing can and will happen to Goku, if he stays as the main character. Resetting a character doesn't help at all.

[SupremeKai25]

That's why I still think we need EoZ with Uub, Pan, Bulla, Goten, Trunks, and maybe even Marron getting more of the spotlight.

More screentime in the final arc? Sure, why not. An entire series about them? I am not interested. These characters are nice as window-dressing but they can't carry a whole show on their back.

I just really hope that Toyotaro gets to try his hand at a post EoZ story. I feel like it's what most of the fans want at this point (besides the ones who just want Dragon Ball to end for good already). Also, I think the Black Freeza arc (or whatever it ends up being) should be Super's final arc. Toriyama had to have approved Black Freeza so it's only fitting that it ends Super definitively. And I think Akio and Toei know this, which is why they're remaking/remastering Super to milk it until it reaches Black Freeza. But after Black Freeza, I think Super should end and Toyotaro should start a post EoZ manga where he can put his own stamp on it without Toriyama's input. That way, if we don't like it, we can dismiss it in a GT sort of way since it's AFTER the manga. And they'll be less pressure on Toyotaro if he has a whole blank slate period to work with rather than within the timeframe of Toriyama's original manga.

They should end Super with a Goku vs. Beerus rematch, END the moving goalpost once and for all. Black Frieza leading into Goku vs. Beerus rematch leading into Uub, the End. They definitely need to have Goku UNDENIABLY, FACTUALLY, AND UNDOUBTEDLY surpass Beerus because that was the original pitch of modern Dragon Ball all those years ago: Goku needs to surpass Lord Beerus. Let's have a glorious rematch to finally conclude this grand storyline that originated in 2013 with Battle of Gods.

After that... as I said I am not interested in other stories. I think the ending with Goku and Uub is perfect and I don't feel the need to know what happens after it. I looove open endings that invite to new adventures without directly showing those, that kind of ending fills me with hope and optimism for the future. An open ending is basically saying, "we have finished this chapter of life, but the journey goes on." And I love that message, I find it so hopeful and bright.

[super michael]

A battle between current Goku vs Beerus would be fun, would UI Goku be able to finally beat Beerus once and for all. I would like to see Goku win, after training all those years to improve his skills.

I would like for the series to focus on Uub, Pan, Bulla, Goten, Trunks and Marron. Pan she reminds me a lot of Goku in DB but more intelligent, Bra is great with technology, Goten and Trunks are super heroes who wants to protect those they care about and Uub is the reincarnation of Buu with God Ki. Marron I can't really think of anything for her.

What we need to see is Goku being smart again and show us that he has made a lot of progress. Show us that Goku that manage to successfully train Gohan to become the strongest person on earth.

[Skar]

I still wonder how much general audience demand there would be for a DB remake or series focusing on characters not Goku. A DB remake would just be the same story with a newer animation style and more censorship. Kai was just remastering and recutting Z and apparently didn't perform that well. Both DB and DBZ are classics at this point and a product of their time.

DB has always been Goku's martial arts story. Every opportunity to focus on the next generation was changed to keep Goku as the main character. The whole revival has taken place before EoZ because Toriyama said that was the end of Goku's journey and the next generation was taking over. That was more like a nice final message that there will be other strong characters to protect the Earth after Goku is gone but not that he wants to show it or that those characters will carry a series. His involvement in DBO shows nothing major happens after EoZ until hundreds of years later after most of the cast passed away.

When they talk about doing what fans want in this revival it was always focusing on existing popular characters. I don't know if Toei and Toyotaro decide to take more risks after Toriyama passed away and focus on characters or time period that he was never interested in exploring.

[Dragon Ball Ireland]

Kai was just remastering and recutting Z and apparently didn't perform that well. Both DB and DBZ are classics at this point and a product of their time.

Kai didn't do well in Japan, yes, but it was a huge success internationally, which led to The Final Chapters being created.

[super michael]

No one thought Ash would beat the Pokémon Leagues and no one thought Ash would get replaced as the main character, yet those things has recently happened.
The main character is Liko.



Just because Goku has been the face of Dragon Ball for many years, it doesn't mean he can't be replaced.


As for a remake that would mean the anime would be more faithful to the manga, so cutting out filler and scenes that are there for extending time. The purpose of filler was so the anime doesn't catch up to the manga.

[JulieYBM]

I still wonder how much general audience demand there would be for a DB remake or series focusing on characters not Goku. A DB remake would just be the same story with a newer animation style and more censorship. Kai was just remastering and recutting Z and apparently didn't perform that well. Both DB and DBZ are classics at this point and a product of their time.

DB has always been Goku's martial arts story. Every opportunity to focus on the next generation was changed to keep Goku as the main character. The whole revival has taken place before EoZ because Toriyama said that was the end of Goku's journey and the next generation was taking over. That was more like a nice final message that there will be other strong characters to protect the Earth after Goku is gone but not that he wants to show it or that those characters will carry a series. His involvement in DBO shows nothing major happens after EoZ until hundreds of years later after most of the cast passed away.

When they talk about doing what fans want in this revival it was always focusing on existing popular characters. I don't know if Toei and Toyotaro decide to take more risks after Toriyama passed away and focus on characters or time period that he was never interested in exploring.

The audience is children and their parents. You get a new audience into an old work by creating a new adaption that can better appeal to the trends of the time while also tapping into the nostalgia of adults who previously grew up on the series when they were kids. When we hit the fiftieth anniversary, guess how old Dragon Ball Kai will be? A lot older than Dragon Ball and Dragon Ball Z were when Dragon Ball Kai was first made and broadcast.

There's a reason why having a new GeGeGe no Kitarou animated adaption every decade worked lol.

[super michael]

I found this trailer of The Birth of Kitaro: The Mystery of GeGeGe:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hcKiMTNtWZY
It looks really good the anime. I will have to check the order that I have to watch it.