MistareFusion's Dragon Ball Dissection! (Updated 5/11/26!)

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Re: MistareFusion's Dragon Ball Dissection! (Updated 4/13/26!)

Post by Gaffer Tape » Wed Apr 15, 2026 10:47 pm

Kenji wrote: Tue Apr 14, 2026 11:33 am How come you haven't commented on the absurdity of Kame Sennin showing up to fight, but Yamcha not.
Kame Sennin hasn't trained jack-shit since Karin, but Yamcha has trained with Kami-sama, Kaio-sama, trained for Cell, and yet... Poor dolt.
I feel like I spoke on that to a degree, that he seems an odd choice if they're self-selecting. It's true I didn't compare him directly to Yamcha, although that bothers me quite a bit more in the lead-up to the ToP.
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Current Episode: The Worst Twist in History - Dragon Ball Dissection: The Resurrection 'F' Arc Part 4

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Re: MistareFusion's Dragon Ball Dissection! (Updated 4/13/26!)

Post by Scsigs » Wed Apr 15, 2026 10:52 pm

Just copy/pasting these from the comments I left on the video itself.

So, when you're working with digital animation, you can either get characters drawn at full scale, then shrunk down to the size they need to be in the shots they're in, or you can get the characters drawn at that smaller scale. It literally depends on the animator & how much time they have to animate it. Sometimes you'll also get both in 1 shot depending on the characters. Considering that Super's early production had only a MONTH to animate any given episode because of how poorly Toei actually planned out Super's production before it aired, I don't begrudge the animators drawing the characters at a larger scale, then shrinking them down.

So, Kai censoring a lot of the blood comes from a few different things. Yes, it aired on Sunday mornings & the standards in Japan changed between the 90s & 2009, but also apparently Toei was pre-censoring or toning down certain things for the international broadcasts. Not only toning down the blood, but the nudity with Gohan, changing the strobing effects, & some other things. Some people think this censoring is bad, but I don't mind it. The blood isn't fully eliminated in Kai & the holes on Goku & Raditz being filled is the only time it gets to that level.
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Re: MistareFusion's Dragon Ball Dissection! (Updated 4/13/26!)

Post by Kid Buu » Thu Apr 16, 2026 6:09 am

Gaffer Tape wrote: Wed Apr 15, 2026 10:47 pm
Kenji wrote: Tue Apr 14, 2026 11:33 am How come you haven't commented on the absurdity of Kame Sennin showing up to fight, but Yamcha not.
Kame Sennin hasn't trained jack-shit since Karin, but Yamcha has trained with Kami-sama, Kaio-sama, trained for Cell, and yet... Poor dolt.
I feel like I spoke on that to a degree, that he seems an odd choice if they're self-selecting. It's true I didn't compare him directly to Yamcha, although that bothers me quite a bit more in the lead-up to the ToP.
Yeah, Yamcha felt really out of character in those episodes leading up to ToP. The Buu arc established he had retired from fighting and he didn't even want to participate in the 25th Budokai, but somehow wants to be in the ToP?
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Re: MistareFusion's Dragon Ball Dissection! (Updated 4/13/26!)

Post by The Dark Knight » Thu Apr 16, 2026 9:55 am

Kid Buu wrote: Thu Apr 16, 2026 6:09 amThe Buu arc established he had retired from fighting and he didn't even want to participate in the 25th Budokai, but somehow wants to be in the ToP?
There's a lot of character development from the original manga that Super just ignores. Roshi is another example of this, where he retires as a result of the rise of the next generation, only to now fight on the front lines with characters that should be far beyond his capabilities. On the flip side, we have Goten and Trunks who were built up as the next best thing, only to be completely side lined every chance possible. Don't even get me started on all the character regression (looking at you Goku and Vegeta) that's been going on for so long now.

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Re: MistareFusion's Dragon Ball Dissection! (Updated 4/13/26!)

Post by Kid Buu » Fri Apr 17, 2026 4:27 pm

The Dark Knight wrote: Thu Apr 16, 2026 9:55 am
Kid Buu wrote: Thu Apr 16, 2026 6:09 amThe Buu arc established he had retired from fighting and he didn't even want to participate in the 25th Budokai, but somehow wants to be in the ToP?
There's a lot of character development from the original manga that Super just ignores. Roshi is another example of this, where he retires as a result of the rise of the next generation, only to now fight on the front lines with characters that should be far beyond his capabilities. On the flip side, we have Goten and Trunks who were built up as the next best thing, only to be completely side lined every chance possible. Don't even get me started on all the character regression (looking at you Goku and Vegeta) that's been going on for so long now.
It feels as though Super leans heavily on the characterisation fans remember most. Yamcha here comes across much closer to his Saiyan Saga self than his Buu Saga version. It doesn’t help that Super even brings back his classic Saiyan Saga death pose.
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Re: MistareFusion's Dragon Ball Dissection! (Updated 4/13/26!)

Post by DanielSSJ » Fri Apr 17, 2026 10:03 pm

Kid Buu wrote: Fri Apr 17, 2026 4:27 pmIt feels as though Super leans heavily on the characterisation fans remember most. Yamcha here comes across much closer to his Saiyan Saga self than his Buu Saga version. It doesn’t help that Super even brings back his classic Saiyan Saga death pose.
Nail on the head.

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Re: MistareFusion's Dragon Ball Dissection! (Updated 4/13/26!)

Post by The Dark Knight » Fri Apr 17, 2026 11:14 pm

Kid Buu wrote: Fri Apr 17, 2026 4:27 pmIt feels as though Super leans heavily on the characterization fans remember most.
That's exactly what it does; it basically writes the characters as their most popular version, regardless of whether or not that's actually who they were at the end of the Buu arc. I'm surprised they didn't find a way to age Gohan down to his Cell-arc self. :lol:

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Re: MistareFusion's Dragon Ball Dissection! (Updated 4/13/26!)

Post by DanielSSJ » Sat Apr 18, 2026 12:31 am

The Dark Knight wrote: Fri Apr 17, 2026 11:14 pm
That's exactly what it does; it basically writes the characters as their most popular version, regardless of whether or not that's actually who they were at the end of the Buu arc. I'm surprised they didn't find a way to age Gohan down to his Cell-arc self. :lol:
I mean... *gestures to all of Super Hero*

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Re: MistareFusion's Dragon Ball Dissection! (Updated 4/13/26!)

Post by Vegetto95 » Sat Apr 18, 2026 10:06 pm

DanielSSJ wrote: Sat Apr 18, 2026 12:31 am
The Dark Knight wrote: Fri Apr 17, 2026 11:14 pm
That's exactly what it does; it basically writes the characters as their most popular version, regardless of whether or not that's actually who they were at the end of the Buu arc. I'm surprised they didn't find a way to age Gohan down to his Cell-arc self. :lol:
I mean... *gestures to all of Super Hero*
God, the fact that Super Hero is supposed to take place just ONE year before the 28th Tenkaichi Budōkai epilogue, and we're somehow supposed to believe that Blooma goes from looking like this:
Image

to this:
Image
in only a single year???

Not even to mention the fact that it completely ruins the joke in the epilogue where Blooma, out of jealousy after hearing Vegeta's explanation that Saiyans age slower to stay in their combat prime longer, quips "Maybe next time I'll ask Shenlong to make me young again". Why would she say that then if, per Super, she had already been doing EXACTLY THAT for several years straight? Oh yeah, cuz Super's writers are incompetent buffoons, duh. Almost forgot that for a second there... :roll: :roll:

Seriously, for all the myriad issues GT had, one thing I truly LOVED about it was that the characters continued to age. By GT, 40 entire years had passed since Blooma first ran into Gokū with her car on Mt. Paozu... the main cast are ALL WELL into their 50s and they LOOK it. I positively ADORE how Mr. Satan is visibly balding in the 28th TB epilogue, and by GT the entire top of his head is fully bald. Ditto how Kuririn has clearly graying hair and rather prominent laugh lines in the TB epilogue, and by GT it's just straight up gray and he's got a big, beefy mustache to go along with it.

It really gives the series a truly epic feel in terms of scope, that it's this HUGE, DECADES long journey, one where these characters grow up alongside you just as much as you grow up alongside them. I LOVE that the main character starts out as a little twelve year old kid, and by the end of it he's in his 50s and has a ten year old granddaughter! And I love that, unlike many other things like Naruto or Harry Potter or Digimon Adventure where 99% of the story we get to see is just the main characters as adolescents and then we get maybe 5 minutes at the VERY end where it shows them and their kids 20-odds years later, we instead actually get to gradually experience the lives of Gokū and co. by getting dropped in every few years to witness a few months of their lives before skipping another small handful of years ahead again. Not only is that something I've always really loved about Dragon Ball, but the older I get, it only appeals to me that much more.

Buuuuuuuuuuuuuut... then Super of course just had to go and take a GIANT shit ALL over ALL of that and revert EVERY SINGLE LAST character back to how they were when they were at their most popular (usually circa Artificial Humans arc) because of uber-safe and sterile corporate marketing bullshit. And just like with Sheriff Bart and quicksand...I HATE IT. (PLEASE tell me SOMEONE gets that Blazing Saddles reference :lol: )

At the end of the day, I am VERY much a "Dragon Ball ended for good in November of 1997, and damn near EVERYTHING made after that has been completely pointless fluff of questionable-at-best quality." kinda guy.
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Re: MistareFusion's Dragon Ball Dissection! (Updated 4/13/26!)

Post by DanielSSJ » Sun Apr 19, 2026 12:13 am

Vegetto95 wrote: Sat Apr 18, 2026 10:06 pm God, the fact that Super Hero is supposed to take place just ONE year before the 28th Tenkaichi Budōkai epilogue, and we're somehow supposed to believe that Blooma goes from looking like this:
Image

to this:
Image
in only a single year???

Not even to mention the fact that it completely ruins the joke in the epilogue where Blooma, out of jealousy after hearing Vegeta's explanation that Saiyans age slower to stay in their combat prime longer, quips "Maybe next time I'll ask Shenlong to make me young again". Why would she say that then if, per Super, she had already been doing EXACTLY THAT for several years straight? Oh yeah, cuz Super's writers are incompetent buffoons, duh. Almost forgot that for a second there... :roll: :roll:
Back before we knew Daima was set even further into the past and not directly after Super, I half jokingly predicted that when child wish got reversed, it'd reset Bluma to her ACTUAL age, just in time for the 28th Budokai.

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Re: MistareFusion's Dragon Ball Dissection! (Updated 4/13/26!)

Post by Scsigs » Mon Apr 20, 2026 3:12 am

Imagine if Shenron monkey's paw'd her & she's gonna snap back to her natural age look right before the tournament.
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Re: MistareFusion's Dragon Ball Dissection! (Updated 4/13/26!)

Post by Kid Buu » Wed Apr 22, 2026 11:05 am

Catching up on thread now.

Haven't gotten to the Super films yet so I'll judge Super Hero when I get there. From what I can see the Cell form looks similar to Semi Perfect Cell. I love how Toriyama can't seem to let that one go. Even in the manga, he bought back that form just to kill off the main character. :lol:

Sadly can't see those Bulma pics as imgur is blocked in UK. :/
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Re: MistareFusion's Dragon Ball Dissection! (Updated 4/13/26!)

Post by The Dark Knight » Wed Apr 22, 2026 3:49 pm

Vegetto95 wrote: Sat Apr 18, 2026 10:06 pm God, the fact that Super Hero is supposed to take place just ONE year before the 28th Tenkaichi Budōkai epilogue, and we're somehow supposed to believe that Blooma goes from looking like this:
Image

to this:
Image
in only a single year???
I believe the 28th Tenkaichi epilogue will be changed to take into account all the events that happened since Battle of Gods, so Bulma for example will have her younger look that she had in Superhero. The epilogue, as it is now in the original manga and the Z anime, simply doesn't line up with what we've been getting since 2013.

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Re: MistareFusion's Dragon Ball Dissection! (Updated 4/13/26!)

Post by Salt-sensei » Thu Apr 23, 2026 11:17 am

The Dark Knight wrote: Wed Apr 22, 2026 3:49 pm
Vegetto95 wrote: Sat Apr 18, 2026 10:06 pm God, the fact that Super Hero is supposed to take place just ONE year before the 28th Tenkaichi Budōkai epilogue, and we're somehow supposed to believe that Blooma goes from looking like this:
Image

to this:
Image
in only a single year???
I believe the 28th Tenkaichi epilogue will be changed to take into account all the events that happened since Battle of Gods, so Bulma for example will have her younger look that she had in Superhero. The epilogue, as it is now in the original manga and the Z anime, simply doesn't line up with what we've been getting since 2013.
Don't quote me on that, but I believe Toriyama once said he regretted making everyone too old in the epilogue when they're only around 50. Heck, Kuririn looks in his 60s in GT but he's only 53. Updating their looks to something in between Super and Chapter 518 seems the right thing to do for me.

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Re: MistareFusion's Dragon Ball Dissection! (Updated 4/13/26!)

Post by Scsigs » Fri Apr 24, 2026 2:01 am

Salt-sensei wrote: Thu Apr 23, 2026 11:17 am Don't quote me on that, but I believe Toriyama once said he regretted making everyone too old in the epilogue when they're only around 50. Heck, Kuririn looks in his 60s in GT but he's only 53. Updating their looks to something in between Super and Chapter 518 seems the right thing to do for me.
GT Krillin looks like Vernon Dersley from the Harry Potter movies, no cap.
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Re: MistareFusion's Dragon Ball Dissection! (Updated 4/13/26!)

Post by Yuli Ban » Sun May 03, 2026 11:39 am

The Dark Knight wrote: Fri Apr 17, 2026 11:14 pmI'm surprised they didn't find a way to age Gohan down to his Cell-arc self. :lol:
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Re: MistareFusion's Dragon Ball Dissection! (Updated 5/11/26!)

Post by Gaffer Tape » Mon May 11, 2026 8:36 am

The Worst Twist in History - Dragon Ball Dissection: The Resurrection 'F' Arc Part 4

Dragon Ball Super tries to rehabilitate Tagoma but loses interest and sacrifices him to the fanservice gods. Add an empty Piccolo death (spoilers), and it's clear this already-flimsy story has lost the plot. Talk about the worst twist in history. See it now and let me know what you think!
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Re: MistareFusion's Dragon Ball Dissection! (Updated 5/11/26!)

Post by Yuli Ban » Mon May 11, 2026 9:02 am

Gaffer Tape wrote: Mon May 11, 2026 8:36 am The Worst Twist in History - Dragon Ball Dissection: The Resurrection 'F' Arc Part 4

Dragon Ball Super tries to rehabilitate Tagoma but loses interest and sacrifices him to the fanservice gods. Add an empty Piccolo death (spoilers), and it's clear this already-flimsy story has lost the plot. Talk about the worst twist in history. See it now and let me know what you think!
Tagomiller.
That is the most worthwhile thing to come out of Resurrection F.

This is also an English dub thing entirely, irrelevant to the Japanese original, but there's a part of me always tickled by the "Freeza made Tagoma more evil," simply because a very common dub misconception since the 90s was that Vegeta was made into the brutal man he is by Freeza's influence thanks to the rewrite of his death on Namek, and it's typically one of the first things dubbies have to unlearn about his character, that Freeza isn't a corrupting influence

And here comes Super and Tagoma.
Sometimes I wonder if the Japanese writers at Toei actually are aware of the English dub oddities and some of these things are deliberate shout outs. Horrifying thought, eh? I mean we live in a world where the English dub version of the Bardock special now is actually a more "Toriyama" accurate version of Bardock than the Japanese original.

Also, half-tangent because I never got to say this in the past, this episode partially matters to it, and I'm glad I didn't back then because I needed to watch the show again to confirm my own feelings on it: by the time a proper Daima dissection comes around, I bet the fandom attitude towards it will have changed utterly and there's probably going to either be a lot of ranting or a lot of "I guess this happens, if only that happens." If Super is all "car is stuck in the mud going nowhere" and GT was "blindly groping trying to find the car," Daima's definitely "found the car, and the engine is dead"

Like it feels as if almost every positive feeling towards Daima comes down either to Toriyama's death softening feelings or making some people too jumpy about criticizing it (which I disagree with strongly; the most respectful thing you can do for an artist is criticize their work honestly), or the comedy which was mostly-consistently funny. That show otherwise is the definition of "the concept is infinitely better than the execution," which seems like it's been the story behind just about all of Nü DB with some notable exceptions.

If and when you ever do DBD...D? DB Double-D? DBDD, you can reflect on GT and arcs like Resurrection F being "engorged on memberberries" and have a proper contrast where we finally get an arc that's all about adventure and new locations......................................................................... and they still somehow screw it up by giving us locations that are cooler in concept and characters we don't care about, only to pivot and decide "never mind, here's fan-service except it's been scientifically maximized to make the least amount of sense possible"
(Like the fact people arbitrarily love Daima-Super Saiyan 4 now because "Toriyama designed it"...... and offer no other justification beyond that, when it otherwise checks every box people have for "bad Dragon Ball transformation")
And I think the first episode of any sort of prospective Daima Dissection ought to commit to answering a question: what exactly makes a good "adventure" story and why is it "Adobencha Ball" keeps falling flat with fans (because I don't think the idea is at all doomed, but early DB didn't take well with the Japanese, early GT is the reason why the series was cut short, and Daima is... well, the dust is still settling and people are still raw over Toriyama's death which is clouding judgment, and I argue it is also the weakest "adobencha" Dragon Ball's ever done— I'd even say Plan to Eradicate the Saiyans's adventure story was more fun)

Well that tangent's over, and you can take it as me rambling! Also it's irrelevant if you like Daima. I am utterly apathetic towards it.
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Re: MistareFusion's Dragon Ball Dissection! (Updated 5/11/26!)

Post by WittyUsername » Mon May 11, 2026 11:57 am

If I recall, there were a lot of people at the time who actually praised Ginyu’s return and even back then, I was baffled by that. The show had a genuinely compelling idea with Tagoma that we’ve never really seen in Dragon Ball before and the writers immediately threw it away for some cheap fanservice in a story that already had plenty of that. Ginyu’s inclusion contributes nothing to the narrative.

As for Piccolo’s death, I don’t have much to add that hasn’t already been said, but this is one aspect that GT definitively handled better than Super.

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Re: MistareFusion's Dragon Ball Dissection! (Updated 5/11/26!)

Post by Scsigs » Mon May 11, 2026 12:25 pm

See, I just don't understand wanting to bring back Ginyu in the first place. Regardless of Tagoma getting character development, it's also a retcon to make Ginyu be on Earth, which I don't believe was established in the DB manga or Z. And, even if we assume he WAS brought to Earth by Porunga, he most certainly died at some point during the Buu Arc by Majin Buu, assuming Namekian frog bodies live that long in the first place. I very much doubt Porunga brought him back because they asked for only good people to be revived. It's genuinely so stupid & FULL of plot holes, I hate it.

Piccolo dying in Super, I also hate. It's blatant fanservice that goes too far. It's legitimately 'member berries to the worst extreme & it means absolutely nothing because of the Dragon Balls being used to bring him back after Freeza's sent back to Hell. I hate THAT even more.
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