How long after his passing the words "Toriyama wrote/designed/contributed" stop being belieable?

[Neo-Makaiōshin]

Since Toriyama's passing some new Dragon Ball and non-DB projects have either come out or being announced, such as Dragon Ball Daima, Xenoverse 3 and Dragon Quest 12, where Toriyama is credited to have contributed in some form (be character designs, story ideas and other miscellaneous things).

It is not unbelieable to think that Toriyama has worked on stuff that hasn't been shown to the publich yet. However, we're now 2 years remove from his unfortunate passing in 2024. Will this "Toriyama contributed" be true for new things coming in say 2028, 2029 (5 years after death), 2030?

[The Dark Knight]

Iyoko said all the way back in 2022 that he was already throwing around ideas with Toriyama in regards to where the movies should go after Superhero, so the next movie could very well be based on something Toriyama provided them. Black Freeza was introduced back in 2022 as well, so that arc will be based on discussions and ideas Toriyama shared with Toyotaro. These projects take so long to actually come together that I wouldn't be surprised if they're sitting on multiple drafts, designs, concepts, etc... that they haven't even begun work on yet. Xenoverse 3 is a great example of this, as it was in some form of development all the way back in 2018, 6 years before Toriyama passed, but we just found out about it earlier this year. With all that said, I don't think we'll be getting anything fully written from Toriyama again, as I believe Daima was the last project he worked on from the ground up that he was until completion; everything moving forward will be heavily influenced by the choices made by whoever's working on said project.

[BernardoCairo]

Personally, I think this could continue for years, yes. Toriyama has worked on many different things, and from what I know, the artwork he created for games, in particular, was among the very first things created during development. Of course, we have to acknowledge that his name has become a kind of brand in itself, and people will use it to generate interest. But I believe we will still see more of his work in the future.

[Kenji]

I don't think "Toriyama contributed to thing!!!" matters as much as people want to believe it does.
He contributed to GT and the Z movies, won't stop them from being considered trash.
Why should Super, Daima, Xenoverse, and everything else be an exception?

Never mind Toriyama.
If it's good, it's good. If it's trash, it's trash.

[WittyUsername]

I’m gonna go out on a limb and say that anything past XV3 probably wont be able to pull the “Toriyama came up with this” card. Him having been involved in XV3 is believable, because that game was in development years before his passing, but when it comes to something like the manga, that’s been on hiatus for a while now.

[JulieYBM]

Me, an enlightened gay nerd: good art is good, no matter who worked on it [and is not a morally reprehensible human being].

Anyway, my guess is that Iyoku will stretch whatever he can label as having Toriyama's influence on it as possible until he needs to find some other way to market a project in a vain attempt at appearing valid and dignified.

[kiarasuraru]

It''ll be 2050 and we'll have people who weren't even born by the time Toriyama died go "B-But it's by Toriyama! The plastered a sticker that said Toriyama on [product] so it's gotta be true! They wouldn't lie about this!"
Bonus: "It's automatically good because it says Toriyama™!" and "You can't criticize it because you're disrespecting a dead man!" and "I-It's the fourteenth Last Son of Toriyama so that makes it a good design yes or yes!"

[Zinnia]

He contributed to GT and the Z movies, won't stop them from being considered trash.

???
People all around the world respect GT and the Z movies. In fact they're so good, their concepts have been recycled multiple times now in the supposed "canon" material. So considered trash by who exactly? Vocal crybaby minority online???

Notice how Torishima never once criticized GT, and even said it's responsible for keeping the anime industry afloat back then? I'll take his word more than of the armchair ""experts"" .

[Kenji]

He contributed to GT and the Z movies, won't stop them from being considered trash.

???
People all around the world respect GT and the Z movies. In fact they're so good, their concepts have been recycled multiple times now in the supposed "canon" material. So considered trash by who exactly? Vocal crybaby minority online???

Notice how Torishima never once criticized GT, and even said it's responsible for keeping the anime industry afloat back then? I'll take his word more than of the armchair ""experts"" .

I do like GT and think it's an infinitely better product than Daima (written entirely by Toriyama).
That's precisely the point I was trying to make, you shouldn't give a shit about who wrote what as long as it's good.

The other point is that people give too much credit to this whole "Toriyama-contributed" thing as if it's any different than the Toei stuff from the 90's. Toriyama might've not written them, but he still designed the characters and gave the staff ideas, so... What exactly makes modern stuff more valid again? Something to think about.

[Hellspawn28]

There's probably stuff that he worked on that people will find and discover. Like what happen with Frank Herbert's Dune sequel novels.

[Saiya6Cit]

I do believe there is some art made by Toriyama that has not been made public.

I think it is too soon however. Remember how they did it with Nirvana and The Beatles? It took at least one decade for the never released before songs to make it to the public But by today's "next" button standards set up by Netflix and the impatience of many, I am sure they can easily reduce it about 5 years...

[Jord]

Even if they don't have anything new by him, he will always play a huge part in marketing by using things like "based on a story by Toriyama" (meaning dragon ball in itself) or "based on characters by Toriyama". He's a huge part of the brand and unless something turns out that make appear him to be a horrible person, he will always be front and center when promoting the brand.

[super michael]

I don't think "Toriyama contributed to thing!!!" matters as much as people want to believe it does.
He contributed to GT and the Z movies, won't stop them from being considered trash.
Why should Super, Daima, Xenoverse, and everything else be an exception?

Never mind Toriyama.
If it's good, it's good. If it's trash, it's trash.

Exactly who wrote it or drew it isn't important, what matters is if the anime, manga and games are good or trash.

Dragon Ball Xenoverse low drop rate makes it boring to farm.

[PowerPhantom245]

Somewhere in vault, there is script / concept ideas for unmade LIVE ACTION movies...

lol

[angeldreamZ004]

So far, I believe it's a 50 / 50 case.

There is evidence for specific projects that do justify why it's said that Toriyama was involved. Xenoverse 3 is in development since 2019, while Dragon Quest XII was revealed in 2021. And they even show the character designs made by him (XV3), or at least the description gave by him (DQ12)

But when it comes to other two projects, one is suspicious, the other one, potentially very ugly.

Akio Iyoku said that Toriyama was involved in writing a new version of the Beerus arc for the Super remake, which means that at least the remake was planned prior to his death, and soon enough so Tori could put his fingers on it.

But then there's the Moro Arc Anime Adaptation announcement, it's where things become very weird.

If it wasn't for Toyotaro himself exposing that he was behind the Moro arc though, pretty much no one would comment about how the anime adaptation is contradictory to that.
If he was even allowed to give such info, then it's because someone in command was okay with that, so, who? Shueisha? Capsule Corp Tokyo? Both?

The Genkidamatsuri event was mostly a CCT presentation, which could led to many fairly theorizing that it's Iyoku's fault, but Shueisha was involved too, so there's the possibility that both agreed on not crediting Toyotaro, or Shueisha didn't allow CCT and Toei to use his name.

Maybe a reason for them to not credit Toyotaro is because they are considering Super as a whole, inside the Toriyama era, which is why he's considered responsible for the story and characters, and when the “Toyotaro era” begins, it's when they'll start crediting him.

We'll remain clueless anyway unless they give us more information.
But this definitely makes us question the credibility of the use of Toriyama's name by these companies, and, by consequence, it can also make us question if Tori was really involved in the Super remake for example.

Regardless of the reasons for it, I think it's still sad how Toyotaro outside of the manga is nearly ignored, he's credited for illustrations at best and that's all. The Original Japanese credits at least are more clear about who's responsible for the manga, unlike the Official English Translation that kept crediting Toriyama as the writer until the very last chapter, so that only adds more to the problem because it pretty much makes almost everyone in the western fanbase fall for it. I don't doubt that he was likely not credited in the reveal for the Moro Arc Anime because of this, since the event was made for English watchers as well.

I think the Moro and Granola sagas were more than enough to show that Toyo is capable of creating good stories and characters, if this “distrust” on him continues, then we already know the future if they keep using Toriyama's name for “story and characters”, Toyo will go through the Ghost Authorship experience for the rest of his career and it remain that way until the franchise stops being profitable or some other catastrophe happens.

I hope this won't be happening and correct creditation will be given for the future creations inside the franchise, but we shouldn't doubt what these corporations can do.

(I was also going to comment on the possibility of them using Toriyama's name just to say that he was responsible for creating the legacy content, but Jord already did that.)

[Saiya6Cit]

Also we don't have a way to know whether or not it is true that something came from Toriyama.
They could lie...

I would say that take it with a pinch of salt whenever they say Toriyama was involved into something because we simply don't have a way to know that.

[PhantomSaiyan]

After the next 2 or 3 project (if I'm feeling generous) I'll stop believing it.

There is absolutely no way in hell they plan things that far in advance. If they did, modern Dragon Ball would have been a lot different lol

[Zebra]

Also we don't have a way to know whether or not it is true that something came from Toriyama.
They could lie...

Sure, but the point others have made is that it shouldn't even matter whether something came from Toriyama or not. A product should be judged on its own merit, not who may or may not have worked on it.

[angeldreamZ004]

After the next 2 or 3 project (if I'm feeling generous) I'll stop believing it.
There is absolutely no way in hell they plan things that far in advance. If they did, modern Dragon Ball would have been a lot different lol

True, especially the 6 years of absolute limbo in the serialized animation territory wouldn't have happened, with a CGI movie lost in the middle. Had Toei, Toriyama and Shueisha with a better team up and the planning would've played out quite differently.

Also we don't have a way to know whether or not it is true that something came from Toriyama. They could lie...
I would say that take it with a pinch of salt whenever they say Toriyama was involved into something because we simply don't have a way to know that.

With Xenoverse 3 and the latest releases we at least got to see material proof for it, such as his designs or at least commentary. The problem starts with projects like DBS Beerus and The Galactic Patrol, where we have nothing but the choice of whether or not to trust Akio Iyoku's words and the official sources when they say that Tori was involved.

If they drop his name at least from "Story by" in future projects then we have a good reason to believe that they were indeed speaking the truth and they just messed up with the Moro arc creditation for some-maybe same reason as the official manga translation always credited him as the writer.

[kiarasuraru]

Also we don't have a way to know whether or not it is true that something came from Toriyama.
They could lie...

Sure, but the point others have made is that it shouldn't even matter whether something came from Toriyama or not. A product should be judged on its own merit, not who may or may not have worked on it.

But the reality and fact of the matter is that people will care about the "who" no matter what. Even if they tell themselves they will judge it fairly and neutrally deep inside there will always be a smidgen of them thinking about that.
The "who" is inextricably linked and part of the work. Because the "who" tells you how the work will be made. It sets expectations or lack of them, creates a standard, and in the cases of established and long-running franchises, it provides legitimacy.

Like, look at how one's of Daima's prime defenses against any criticism "It was made by Toriyama!" and "It was Toriyama's last gift/last work!".
Let's pretend we live in a world where everything about Daima is exactly the same. But without the Toriyama involvement on it. A full on CCT™ Original Production. Do you really believe Daima would be half as well received(lol) or defended in that world?

Another example.
I'm otaku-kun and I watch random anime 987 and I didn't like it. I check who worked on it. I watch random anime 785 and 536 afterwards and I didn't like them either. The same people who worked on 987 made those two.
Do I watch random anime 1002 and try to judge it on it's own merits? Or do I not touch since I know the chances of me not liking it are extremely high based on the people working on it?
When does it become a enough? Where does the invisible having to judge something out of its own merits line must be drawn? Am I being unfair for not giving it a chance even if I know it's highly likely I won't like it since I haven't liked not a single thing those people have made?

We all know it's part of the marketing but it's undeniable that the "who" is also part of the work.