How long after his passing the words "Toriyama wrote/designed/contributed" stop being belieable?

[Alruneia]

I guess it's a matter of how many projects come out more than how much time passes, right? It's both, sure, but they can technically have projects that Toriyama did personally work on saved up for years and years since not much is happening in terms of new DB content right now. Personally I'd be able to believe that an eventual next movie came from Toriyama, but only one, and probably nowhere near all of it. I also think Toyotaro would be able to credit Toriyama with the ideas behind one or two more Super manga arcs, but only the basic ideas. And since Xenoverse 3 is already on its way, I doubt I'd believe any more video games would have much Toriyama involvement. All of it would get less and less believable as time goes on for sure, but I think it'll take a few more years until we're there.

[Cipher]

For at least another film and manga arc, it's very believable/has been strongly indicated that they were already in ideation processes with Toriyama.

Beyond that, I think it gets pretty tenuous, unless they just start applying it to previously discussed and dropped concepts, mine old sketches, etc. He wasn't exactly known to plot ahead.

At this point though, I also really think Toyotaro should just be allowed to finish out the manga on his own terms, as his own series. It's a shame that it's tied up in all this other franchise stewardship stuff, although that's how he came onto/into the series as well...

[taikufuru]

Even when Toriyama was alive and active in Dragon Ball productions, they overvalued his influence.

I mean, what he did in Dragon Ball Super was write vague drafts and character designs for the arcs, some of them suggested by the editorial team, which would be transformed into 131 episodes written by numerous screenwriters. So, yes, Toriyama may have created the character design for the new Dragon Ball game, but that doesn't mean his participation is as significant as it seems.

The most blatant example is Dragon Ball Super: Beerus. This began production after his death. Unless he made a deal with Uranai Baba, it's impossible he had any input on it. Like others in this thread, I really don't care if Toriyama or someone else wrote it. I think it's more important that the work itself is good and that whoever actually wrote it is valued for it, not hidden behind the legendary figure of the deceased author.

[The Dark Knight]

Even when Toriyama was alive and active in Dragon Ball productions, they overvalued his influence.

You can tell from the types of stories we've gotten and how they're written that he was more of guide, rather than the head writer calling the shots. I would say that the exception to this was the Battle of Gods movie, Daima, and maybe the 2008 special, as those three felt far more Toriyama-like than everything else we got.

[Zebra]

I'm pretty sure he was just as involved with RoF, Broly, and Super Hero as he was with BoG. He played a fairly big hand in the Granola arc, too.

[taikufuru]

What I meant is that many people credit Toriyama as the screenwriter, as if he wrote the series entirely and the animators or Toyotarō only illustrated it. That's not the case.

Toriyama wrote the screenplays for all four films. But he wasn't the screenwriter for Toyotarō's 104-chapter manga, nor for the 131 episodes of the Dragon Ball Super TV series.

Dragon Ball Daima, even though it's shorter, clearly shows Toriyama's influence, although he's not the screenwriter there either. We also know a bit more about your public involvement.

It's quite the same with the Tournament of Power, for example, where the anime and manga are radically different, and everything we know was a huge collaborative effort.

[Anonymous Friend]

Artists create things constantly, and the large majority of what they made never see the light of day. Because many of them are perfectionists. There's bound to be hundreds of drawings, sketches, and concepts lying around somewhere like a garage or attic or closet or storage unit. It wouldn't surprise me if he made a doodle of SSJ5, 6, and 7. He's also probably discussed future plot and story beats with various individuals, and wrote down some ideas for things. Many of these will never become anything real, but there's always the chance that someone else would have to complete it and bring it to life.

The question is, what's your threshold of Toriyama input where you will engage with something solely based on his name being attached?

[angeldreamZ004]

Personally I'd be able to believe that an eventual next movie came from Toriyama, but only one, and probably nowhere near all of it. I also think Toyotaro would be able to credit Toriyama with the ideas behind one or two more Super manga arcs, but only the basic ideas.

For at least another film and manga arc, it's very believable/has been strongly indicated that they were already in ideation processes with Toriyama.

He's also probably discussed future plot and story beats with various individuals, and wrote down some ideas for things. Many of these will never become anything real, but there's always the chance that someone else would have to complete it and bring it to life.

In regards to future manga arc(s), it's still very nebulous for us. But a movie, there's that odd translation thing from Sankei Sports, saying that Iyoku stated that the next movie was likely already planned, and that he consulted with Toriyama for it. In case it's accurate, well, it was in 2023, so we don't know how far that got into development prior to his passing.

The most blatant example is Dragon Ball Super: Beerus. This began production after his death. Unless he made a deal with Uranai Baba, it's impossible he had any input on it.

We would have to consider that Iyoku lied then, because he straight up said that Toriyama made a new scenario for the DBS Kai version of the Beerus arc at least (which for some reason, he decided to not use, but stay faithful to the “original draft”, which I believe is the 2013 version, or the first Super version, idk)

I think it's possible that Toriyama indeed got involved in this one, especially if the Super Kai project started as a way for Capsule Corp Tokyo to somehow return with Super to buy time while Shueisha didn't allow them to adapt the Moro arc.

It's also important to note though, that while it was said that Toriyama was involved in DBS Beerus, it wasn't said that he was involved in DBS The Galactic Patrol, he was credited for the original work only, which is most likely the original manga. So that could already be an indication that they're telling us that DBS Beerus and Xenoverse 3 may be the limit of his involvement in upcoming works, at least in the animation and videogame departments.

So, yes, Toriyama may have created the character design for the new Dragon Ball game, but that doesn't mean his participation is as significant as it seems.

If you're talking about Xenoverse 3 here, it was said that he was veeery involved, in almost all areas, even more than he was in DBOnline. It was said that he was even behind how some mechanics would work narratively (such as the soul change mechanic). It's pretty much just like how it was said that he was more involved in Daima than any other animated project.

What I meant is that many people credit Toriyama as the screenwriter, as if he wrote the series entirely and the animators or Toyotarō only illustrated it. That's not the case.
Toriyama wrote the screenplays for all four films. But he wasn't the screenwriter for Toyotarō's 104-chapter manga, nor for the 131 episodes of the Dragon Ball Super TV series.

You're right, the problem is that we have the official translations for the manga pretty much lying to us, as they straight up say that Toriyama is the writer, and Toyotaro the illustrator only.

That is very misleading and we needed things such as Toyotaro himself going to an event to make a lot of people more aware of how involved he is in the manga, despite already having good evidence for it prior to that.

So it's hard to blame solely people for saying that Toriyama is the writer when even the official translation source makes that mistake.
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Also, I would like to remember something that I think most people forgot about, but Iyoku said that Daima wasn't the 40th Anniversary special project. We still don't know what exactly is meant to be that project, if it's Super Kai, Super The Galactic Patrol, something else or if it's even still going to exist. Regardless of what it is, they could say Toriyama was involved too.

And to give my personal stance on the manga, I believe it's very much possible that he was involved in making the “basic outlines” for the next stories. Given how Daima was in development since the start of the decade, and pretty much the rest of 2022 and the entirety of 2023 were entirely reserved to retell Super Hero in manga format, and the only chapters that were genuinely new stories were mostly made by Toyotaro only, I think we can pretty much say that he got at least 1 year and a half, or 2 years worth of planning for the next one or two arcs prior to his passing.

[Skar]

What I meant is that many people credit Toriyama as the screenwriter, as if he wrote the series entirely and the animators or Toyotarō only illustrated it. That's not the case.

Toriyama wrote the screenplays for all four films. But he wasn't the screenwriter for Toyotarō's 104-chapter manga, nor for the 131 episodes of the Dragon Ball Super TV series.

Dragon Ball Daima, even though it's shorter, clearly shows Toriyama's influence, although he's not the screenwriter there either. We also know a bit more about your public involvement.

It's quite the same with the Tournament of Power, for example, where the anime and manga are radically different, and everything we know was a huge collaborative effort.

To be honest I think fans oversell Toriyama's influence more than the actual studios. Some fans took Toriyama's general approval to mean he looked over and approved every scene and line of dialogue. Toei has always been honest about his involvement in interviews like mentioning his outlines were barebones and when certain arc or movie ideas were suggested to him based on a character's popularity.

I feel like it's unlikely that would change in the future and continue to be honest about what he was involved with. After Super anime, there were less frequent releases maybe due to his health. It might not be believable that there was suddenly more content he's been secretly working than they actually released in that time. I think it's like Cipher said and maybe only a movie and manga arc. He could've been in the early stages of deciding what happens after SH or conclusion to Super since it's getting closer to the manga's ending.

[taikufuru]

If I were to speculate on Toriyama’s influence on Dragon Ball Super: Beerus, it would simply be the fact that Bird Studio and his name are credited. It could have been a simple conversation like:

Iyoku: I want to produce a re-edited version of the Dragon Ball Super anime. Do you think that’s a good idea?

Toriyama: Yeah, sure. Go ahead.

Toriyama passed away in March 2024. He had already been dealing with health issues prior to that. Production on Dragon Ball Super: Beerus had not been completed by that time; even regarding the first arc, the latest reports indicated it wasn't fully finished yet. It is inconceivable—especially considering that the series relies heavily on reused footage—that it would take two or three years to complete, all while Dragon Ball DAIMA was also in production.

[SupremeKai25]

I mean, what he did in Dragon Ball Super was write vague drafts

What about the core plot points of the Universe 6 saga, Future Trunks saga, and Tournament of Power saga is "vague"? If it was vague as you claim, then the anime and manga would have radically different storylines and endings. Instead both mediums have the same general story (for instance Zeno erasing the timeline, 17 winning the Tournament of Power, Freeza returning, etc.), and diverge only for small-scale details. Toriyama's drafts weren't vague, they were sufficiently clear. It wasn't a full story like in the old days, of course, but they were still clear drafts. Toei/Toyotaro added some original stuff like Toyotaro suggesting Vegito for fan-service (which was good, fusion vs. fusion was awesome), but the drafts were sufficiently clear that both the anime and the manga have an identical start, midway conflict, ending for those arcs.

As far as the manga-only arcs are concerned, Toriyama was always credited as the writer. Even in the Moro saga, which apparently had a lot of input from Toyotaro, the credit of the Moro saga was still "writing from Toriyama". And I believe it was also Toriyama who designed the Heeters, who are the true antagonists of the Granolah saga.

where the anime and manga are radically different,

They're not in the things that matter, like the ending with 17 being the winner, or bringing Freeza back, or Goku getting Ultra Instnict.

There's a lot of minor differences, like Gohan vs. Kefla, Roshi vs. Jiren, Anilaza being fodder, but these things are not important like the aforementioned core plot points.

For example, a core divergence would be Jiren winning the tournament. Cell coming back instead of Freeza. Goku getting Super Saiyan 4 instead of Ultra Instinct. And yet none of this happened, because Toriyama's drafts were so clear that Toei and Toyotaro knew exactly what the ending and the major players and forms of that arc were gonna be.