MistareFusion's Dragon Ball Dissection! (Updated 7/6/26!)

[Kenji]

By the directors' admission, they hated Mamoru's character, so it tracks.

[Kid Buu]

By the directors' admission, they hated Mamoru's character, so it tracks.

Ikuhara, lead director of Season 2 - 4, said in an interview that he hated Mamoru but he also said in the same interview he was just joking. In fact he directed the Sailor Moon R which was very Mamoru-centric.

[Scsigs]

The anime even acknowledges the creepy age difference.

That...doesn't help? Mamoru was aged up a bit in the 90s anime for...some reason, but they don't really do anything about it. He & Usagi still start to date & eventually end up together in the future regardless.

So, looking up this info on the Sailor Moon Wiki (because I can't be fucked to rewatch the show), here's how the age for Mamoru goes in every version:
Arc 1: 16/17 (Manga VS 90s anime)
Arc 2: 16-17/18
Arc 3: 17-18/at least 18, but probably 19
Arc 4-5: 18/most likely 19

Usagi is consistently 2 years younger than him in the manga & 3 years younger in the 90s anime.

So, at the start of the anime, it's not AS bad as I thought, but by the time they get to the second arc it raises a lot of questions. Not saying the manga was great, but at the least it's a closer age gap, so it's not AS creepy.

[Scsigs]

I'll commit heresy here: The manga is not as good as the anime.
Naoko Takeuchi could never reach the level of emotional weight the anime often managed to.

Part of that comes from the manga over-focusing on Usagi's quite unhealthy obsession with Mamoru, while the anime focuses on her interpersonal relationship with all of her friends, which I think is far, far, far more interesting.

The season 1 finale demonstrates it best: Her friends' deaths traumatize the fuck out of her, while her boyfriend's is only a passing note. In the manga, it's the inverse. She puts her man above her own life, which... Yeah, no. Sorry, Naoko. Far from me discouraging women from writing about their dreams and desires, but I would never support this kind of messaging.

I think it depends on what you're looking for, tbh. If you'd rather a series about a group of friends working together to master their powers & work to defeat evil while having an episodic, slice of life feel & nature that's more like a general Super Sentai season, you'll like the 90s anime. If you're looking for a more serialized, structured narrative with less fluff & a more straight-forward story, you'll like the manga or Crystal. Both aren't bad, just different.

[Kid Buu]

The anime even acknowledges the creepy age difference.

That...doesn't help? Mamoru was aged up a bit in the 90s anime for...some reason, but they don't really do anything about it. He & Usagi still start to date & eventually end up together in the future regardless.

So, looking up this info on the Sailor Moon Wiki (because I can't be fucked to rewatch the show), here's how the age for Mamoru goes in every version:
Arc 1: 16/17 (Manga VS 90s anime)
Arc 2: 16-17/18
Arc 3: 17-18/at least 18, but probably 19
Arc 4-5: 18/most likely 19

Usagi is consistently 2 years younger than him in the manga & 3 years younger in the 90s anime.

So, at the start of the anime, it's not AS bad as I thought, but by the time they get to the second arc it raises a lot of questions. Not saying the manga was great, but at the least it's a closer age gap, so it's not AS creepy.

I wasn't disagreeing, I was adding to your point there.

I love the 90s anime but that's one thing I don't like. Not to mention every season seems to reset Usagi's personality. In R it worked since it was a literal reset, but in SuperS it felt like Mamoru was more Usagi's babysitter.

As for time skips, I think Stars is the only one as they're in a new school in it.

[Scsigs]

Spoiler:

The anime even acknowledges the creepy age difference.

That...doesn't help? Mamoru was aged up a bit in the 90s anime for...some reason, but they don't really do anything about it. He & Usagi still start to date & eventually end up together in the future regardless.

So, looking up this info on the Sailor Moon Wiki (because I can't be fucked to rewatch the show), here's how the age for Mamoru goes in every version:
Arc 1: 16/17 (Manga VS 90s anime)
Arc 2: 16-17/18
Arc 3: 17-18/at least 18, but probably 19
Arc 4-5: 18/most likely 19

Usagi is consistently 2 years younger than him in the manga & 3 years younger in the 90s anime.

So, at the start of the anime, it's not AS bad as I thought, but by the time they get to the second arc it raises a lot of questions. Not saying the manga was great, but at the least it's a closer age gap, so it's not AS creepy.

I wasn't disagreeing, I was adding to your point there.

I love the 90s anime but that's one thing I don't like. Not to mention every season seems to reset Usagi's personality. In R it worked since it was a literal reset, but in SuperS it felt like Mamoru was more Usagi's babysitter.

As for time skips, I think Stars is the only one as they're in a new school in it.

Rereading it, I see that now.

The 90s anime heavily flanderized Usagi's personality traits from the manga & how useless she is, at least at the beginning. To the point where they even have her friends make fun of her for them. Hell, her main nickname in the 90s anime was "crybaby Usagi." She was pretty flat as a character & her friends were more interesting just for having better personalities. Crystal didn't have that, at least in the first few arcs. You can tell the writers of the 90s anime had NO idea how to write teenage girls & it showed.

I'll tell ya what's bad no matter the version, though...Chibi-Usa. I have no idea why this character was written as badly as she was, but I hate her so much. She's so fucking annoying. Doesn't help that she seems to have a bit of an...Oedipal complex with her father to the point where when she gets aged up when she's turned evil towards the end of that arc, she kisses the past version of him on the lips. What the fuck? Hell, Usagi's even played as jealous of Chibi-Usa hanging around Mamaru...for some reason I can't understand. Yes, Usagi, Mamoru's gonna TOTALLY start dating the 10-year-old. Fucking idiot. And also, like, WHY was Chibi-Usa seemingly doing everything possible to make sure her parents' relationship didn't develop further in a natural way? Did she wanna die through not being born? She's ALSO stupid.

God, I have so many problems with how some of these shits went no matter what version.

[Kid Buu]

I think Usagi really matured over the season, but the problem is they just reset her character every season. By S it was really grating. I like how Stars handled her characters.

As for Chibiusa...



LOL. Yeah, she definitely dragged down the 2nd bit or R for me. Oddly enough I didn't mind her as much as S as she was really only in the season to introduce Sailor Saturn. Then in SuperS, jeez.....it definitly has its moments but at the time it almost made me want to drop the show. You'd think Stars would be one of my favourite for getting rid of her, but Stars was just S redux to me so don't really watch it much.

In fact my order pretty much goes Classic>R>S>SuperS>Stars. A lot of fans think S is the best though.

[coola]

With is main reason i prefer manga Sailor Moon over classic anime, in regarding to Sailor Senshi Strangely, i didn't mind Chibi-USa in R, at that part, she was away from home for 1st time, so her behavior was kinda understandable, no reason to make her bratty in S - SuperS through.

But characters i despise most in old anime, are Haruka and Michiru, through out whole series they are mean bullies and zealots ready to kill their family and close friends to save world, even in Stars.

[Kid Buu]

Agree on that. Didn't really like Uranus and Neptune in S at all. Even after Usagi saves the world they still challenge her to a fight.

The real saviour of S...

[Gaffer Tape]

No Lessons to be Learned - Dragon Ball Dissection: The Resurrection 'F' Arc Part 6

I hate that I've missed this very spirited Sailor Moon discussion! Maybe when I have time I'll try to chime in too... because I have thoughts.

Goku and Vegeta finish off Freeza, and Dragon Ball Dissection finishes up its look at The Resurrection 'F' Arc. What larger themes and topics shake loose from this story? What could have possibly made it better? Does it even fit with Dragon Ball's prior concepts of death? And is this version better or worse than the original movie? Time to find out!

[Kid Buu]

- Don't mind sneak attack working. Happened to Yamcha in the Saiyan arc, and even SS1 Kid Trunks was able to send Fat Buu flying.
- Even though I dislike ROF, I LOVE Freeza blowing up the Earth. It's like some kid writing a fan fic on how their pet character Vegeta is finally strong enough to get his revenge on Freeza, and then Toriyama comes in and says "nope, Freeza still wins".
- Kiss Videl? Given who his father is, I doubt Gohan even knows what kissing is.

I hate that I've missed this very spirited Sailor Moon discussion! Maybe when I have time I'll try to chime in too... because I have thoughts.

Well, I'm always down for Sailor Moon discussion, be it this thread or elsewhere. In fact, I'd love if you ever decided to do a "Fashion Extravaganza" episode:

[Grimlock]

Getting hung up on the laser thing very much shows the poor comprehension of Dragon Ball itself, overall context and lack of attention to details. Which to me also explains why we have to deal with the "Movie 14 base Goku is weaker than Freeza" nonsense. I don't think I'll ever understand what goes through the minds of those people.

Anyway, about the state of Freeza's revival, he says he can survive explosions and breathe in outer space, I don't think it's a stretch to assume he was still alive after getting sliced and what actually killed him was the blast. It always made sense he would return in pieces. Being specific with Shenlong and Porunga was always an important point either, and they never specified the state Freeza should return. That the pieces fall from the sky because he was flying at the moment of death but chances are the place the wish was made is different doesn't bother me much.

[Scsigs]

Admittedly, I've only seen the first 2 arcs of both the 90s anime & Crystal in full. I've only seen the 3rd arc about 1/3 to 1/2 of the way through because I find the show painfully boring a lot of the time because of the episodic format & not a lot of things I find interesting going on. The 3rd season of Crystal, I haven't watched at all. The only real thing I took away from it being the Sailor Uranus & Neptune being lesbians thing. The 90s anime, if you get bored at episodic storytelling that isn't too interesting or you don't care for some of the characters, is painfully boring.

Oh, I also forgot. Let's also not forget the first season of the 90s anime where the writers had that...teacher was he? Going out with a 14-year-old. And, I know he's 1 of the bad guys in disguise trying to foil Sailor Moon, but...what the fuck? Why were the writers like this?

[Kid Buu]

The teacher in Season 1 is female and not in a relationship with anyone. You might be thinking of Nephrite, who Naru has a crush on but he's just using her to get to Moon. To me their relationship became more of a Piccolo-Gohan dyanmic, rather than anything sexual.

[Zephyr]

What larger themes and topics shake loose from this story?

When it comes to learning or not learning lessons: I don't think that "they could have defeated Freeza more easily if they worked together" is actually necessary for them to learn, for the story to have a meaningful payoff. It is true that they could have defeated Freeza more easily that way, but it's also true that they could have if their individual flaws hadn't held them back. Plus, like you point out, they already work together often enough. It's just in the context of a 1 on 1 duel, when a battle becomes a match, that they're going to continue fighting alone. And within that context, they both (ostensibly) learned an important lesson.

[Kenji]

"Learning from our mistakes is for losers."
And that just about sums up everything I hate about... well, any serialized story at all, really.

[Koitsukai]

I hadn't really paid much attention to the flaws Whis brings up about Vegeta. He thinks too much, lol.

[DanielSSJ]

And that just about sums up everything I hate about... well, any serialized story at all, really.

I feel like that's only a problem in poorly written ones.

[Kenji]

And that just about sums up everything I hate about... well, any serialized story at all, really.

I feel like that's only a problem in poorly written ones.

And considering Dragon Ball is a series mainly about self improvement... I'll let that speak for itself.

[Scsigs]

The teacher in Season 1 is female and not in a relationship with anyone. You might be thinking of Nephrite, who Naru has a crush on but he's just using her to get to Moon. To me their relationship became more of a Piccolo-Gohan dyanmic, rather than anything sexual.

I thought he took over as a teacher for their school, no?

I mean, yeah, but that's my point. He was just using her, but I still find that whole dynamic as...really iffy because he's still posing as an adult while she's like 14.