Brian Drummond's Re-Evaluation

[Dragon Ball Ireland]

Little known fact nowadays but Brian Drummond was not always well regarded as Vegeta in the eyes (or ears) of fans, and was actually heavily disparaged in the early days of the Dragon Ball Z dub by the pre-Funimation fanbase.

For anyone who was there at the time, were you surprised that over time fans came to appreciate Brian Drummond's performance? Did anyone here change their mind on it?

[Jord]

I grew up with him and think he's excellent. He added a bit of sneakyness/intelligence to Vegeta's portrayal

[TheBigBoy]

I think he's FANTASTIC when Vegeta is a pure villain and he SELLS those cheesy Saban lines. "Over 9000" "YOU WON'T ESCAPE MY WRATH!" are the big ones but I even like his delivery of stupid lines "All cowards worth 1000 points!" or "What an epic day!" when fighting Gohan on Earth. "Nappy I'm thinking about having you dewormed." He's so slimy, loves being evil and has a sense of humor.

Unfortuantely I don't think it works quite as well later on when the character has a bit more than just a bad guy.

[ABED]

I'm surprised anyone didn't like it. It's an incredible performance.

[Hellspawn28]

I think he is the best Vegeta English voice which isn't saying much. I felt like he try to do the royal haughty vibe better than Sabat did.

[90sDBZ]

I still imagine his voice when I see artwork of early Vegeta. Most of the performances from the Saban dub were good, but his was one of the standouts (along with Corlett and McNeil).

He went all in on the unhinged Saturday morning villain approach, and it worked extremely well.

His later performance in the Westwood dub still deserves some praise though. It was more grounded to reflect the change in Vegeta's character. I personally didn't find it as fun to listen to as his early OTT villainous performance, but it worked well enough.

It's unlikely Funimation/Ocean looked into Vegeta's full character arc when they initially cast and directed Drummond. That early performance sort of makes it hard to imagine a redemption arc, which is why his later grounded performance feels different, almost like a different character.

[Gaffer Tape]

If no one minds me interjecting, I think this topic needs a little bit of historical clarification. I remember in the late '90s, early 2000s being surprised by this opinion that anyone could dislike Brian Drummond's performance as Vegeta because it is so good. And I came to realize that it was a perspective primarily of the fans of the generation before me, those who were used to Horikawa. And it's not even that these people necessarily thought that Drummond's performance was bad, just that it didn't fit.

Take this quote from DBZ Uncensored when the voices changed to the in-house FUNimation cast:

DBZ Uncensored: Editorial (A Black Day for DBZ)

Brian Drummond is a charismatic, distinctive, and fantastic performer, but the voice he uses is just not what Vegeta was meant to sound like.

Well now not only does Vegeta still not sound right, but his lines are being delivered by an "actor" with none of Brian's charisma or talent.

So what about Drummond's performance didn't do it for them, or at least for DBZ Uncensored webmaster, Chris Psaros? Well, he expanded on that elsewhere on the site:

DBZ Uncensored: Episode 33

I realized something when I watched this episode in English for the first time: Vegeta and Yajirobe are voiced by the same guy! Doesn't that strike you as s little odd? Well, maybe not, It's probably one of those things that only those of us accustomed to the Japanese version would have a hard time accepting, since we're so used to how incredibly DIFFERENT the voices are in the original version. Somehow I find the thought of Ryo Horikawa playing Yajirobe with his deep, somber voice pretty damned hysterical. And if Mayumi Tanaka tried to play Vegeta...well, that would just be downright ugly.

Funny thing is, Yajirobe's English voice is pretty much dead-on when compared to the original. Having said that, the fact that the character is played by a woman in Japan really makes an interesting statement about the English voice. What incredibly inapporopriately casting for Vegeta! The same guy really should NOT be able to do them both. The voices of the two characters should be at opposite ends of the spectrum, in fact.

Man, sometimes I wish you US DBZ victims could hear just how different the real Vegeta sounds...

I think that did at least help me understand where the disconnect was coming from. As someone who watches the Japanese version, I agree I probably would have a hard time imagining Yajirobe voicing Vegeta and would wonder if that was a good casting choice. And I say this as someone who definitely loved Drummond's voice when I was a kid (and still do). I was just hoping to share why fans of a certain vintage felt the way they did, so that it doesn't come across as this mysterious and inscrutable scoffing of a beloved performance... even if those nearly 30-year-old critiques written by a 20-year-old don't sound nearly as important to my now 40-year-old brain.

[Kid Buu]

I still imagine his voice when I see artwork of early Vegeta.

Same, when the Funi-Ocean dubs kept going back and forth in the broadcast, Vegeta's voice was always the one that I would notice first as I vastly preferred Drummond's version.

[DanielSSJ]

I feel like I'm on the opposite end of the spectrum, where I got into Dragon Ball way too late to have much exposure to Drummond's Vegeta, and I don't care for it very much.

[Kunzait_83]

As noted, there once was a time when DB's U.S. fanbase was made up of people who solely had and went off of the Japanese original. That was the audience at the time who didn't immediately take to Drummond's Vegeta.

Horikawa's version of Vegeta very much plays up and leans heavily into the "royalty" aspect of the character. The "Prince of all Saiyans" Vegeta. Horikawa plays Vegeta as haughty, arrogant, stuck up, condescending, and "princely" for lack of a better word for it. But also extremely regal and grandiose. You clearly get the sense that Horikawa's Vegeta 100% buys into his own hype and he communicates and carries himself with all the pomp and circumstance of a Warrior King who comes from nobility.

Without any value judgement on whether or not his performance is "bad" or "good", Drummond's Vegeta goes a very, very different direction. Drummond, with his hoarse rasp, plays Vegeta as weaselly, conniving, scheming... he almost makes him sound like some kind of cutthroat sneak thief-type at times, like a backstabbing lowlife.

In short, Horikawa's Vegeta: vain, elitist narcissist. Drummond's Vegeta: devious, sniveling, backbiting ladder-climber.

Whether or not Drummond's Vegeta is "good" or "bad" isn't really the point: does it fit Vegeta's character? People from the old, pre-dub/pre-FUNimation/pre-Ocean/pre-Saban days had a very, very hard time accepting such a radically different spin on Vegeta's voice after spending nearly a decade with Horikawa's "looking down my nose at the lowly peons beneath me, for I am God King" interpretation of Vegeta.

The thing is, and this is just my take on it... Drummond's take still sort of/kind of fits(-ish) for Vegeta. But only for a specific stretch of the series and only if you really sit with it and think about it for a second. I've long maintained that Vegeta, for very, very long stretches of the series before he genuinely grows as a character, is at his core a cowardly, insecure bully.

He's been fed this "Elite Warrior Prince of a Great Fighting Race" bullshit since the cradle by his dad and everyone else around him. So being the best-of-the-best is baked into his self-image and identity. But anytime he's ever genuinely challenged at a fighter and pushed past his limits, he has a whining meltdown and an existential crisis, and will say or do pretty much anything, no matter how low and scummy, to maintain his self-image and stay on top. Its only until muuuuuch later in the series as he spends more time around Goku and his friends and family that he actually grows into someone who is genuinely brave, strong, and secure.

In other words: Horikawa is playing up *who Vegeta thinks he is and desperately wants to be*: grandiose, regal, proud, strong. Drummond plays up who and what Vegeta *actually is* deep down inside: ugly, conniving, scheming, scummy.

The thing is: Horikawa's interpretation I think ultimately wins out in the end, and not just because he's the original. Ultimately, it makes WAY more sense for Vegeta as a character to want to project strength and class and royalty. This is what Vegeta desperately wants to present to the world and to everyone around him: and as a vain elitist, Vegeta cares very, very much about appearances, particularly his own.

Drummond's "lowlife sneak-thief rat bastard" version of Vegeta is a perfect representation of Vegeta's true inner-self (at least at the time when he's a villain): but its not at all how he sees himself, nor is it how he'd choose to project himself out to the world and to those around him. And furthermore, once Vegeta finally does change and grow and reform... then Drummond's performance really doesn't make any sense, nor does it work for who the character is at that point at all.

Horikawa's "regal, majestic nobleman" Vegeta not only makes much more sense from a character perspective, it's also ultimately WAY more versatile and still works for the character even as he grows, matures, and changes over the course of the series. Vegeta starts out as an insecure, spoiled brat who is desperately trying to live up to this image of elite royalty: later, once he grows the fuck up and matures into a genuinely caring hero, then he actually does live up to being able to carry himself with pride, dignity, and nobility.

The "royal" tone of his voice takes on a whole different context and cadence later on compared to his earlier appearances: now he actually does have something genuine to be proud of. His demeanor is still arrogant, but now he actually has far, far more with which to back it up. Its no longer just a front: now he actually does for-real embody some of the lofty, warrior ideals he espouses. Before, Vegeta was a brittle, weak man (in terms of his character, not how much he can bench-press) putting up a false front of strength, dominance, and nobility. Later, he actually lives up to it, achieves real strength (of character) and his regal way of speaking is no longer quite so performative.

Horikawa's Vegeta simply has a lot more range and a lot more runway with which to take his performance as the character changes and evolves.

Reformed, good guy Vegeta just... does not work at all with that raspy, lowlife "I'mma knife you in the back while you're asleep and burn your children alive" vibe that Drummond's Vegeta constantly puts out. Its fine for villain Vegeta (especially on Namek, where Vegeta spends much of his screentime sneaking around and bushwhacking his former co-workers in Freeza's army: I think that specific story context does a LOT to help Drummond's Vegeta during that particular stretch of the series). But reformed Vegeta living among and fighting alongside our heroes... yeah, it just doesn't jibe. The voice sounds great in a vacuum, but its just nowhere near as versatile as Horikawa, and it lacks the same level of depth for the character.

Does Drummond sound good as a voice in and of itself? Can he act? For sure. I think he's pretty great, especially next to a lot of the other awful actors and performances that have graced various English dubs of the Dragon Ball anime franchise. But does it fit Vegeta's character? It kind of does for his early appearances, but the further the series goes on and the more Vegeta changes and evolves, the more glaring the limitations of Drummond's Vegeta performance shows itself.

[Metalwario64]

I will say, your analysis there really reminds me how much I appreciate how FUNimation treated Vegeta both in Sabat's performance (he FINALLY actually emotes and sounds like a person talking rather than reading a script) and like.. how much wordier and more elegant the scripts are for him. One of my favorite examples being after Goku basically says "yeah, I'm more powerful, you could use more time in the Room of Spirit and Time, Vegeta" to which he responds:

"Is that a fact? Mind your tongue. I'm no imbecile, I KNOW when I'm being patronized, and I don't care for the suggestion that you're stronger than me!"

which just... it's such a little scene but so well worded I think.

[Dragon Ball Ireland]

Its a shame we may never see the Ocean dub of Kai. Brian Drummond's Vegeta voice in the 2010s (based on convention appearances) sounded like a mixture of his traditional performance and Zechs Merquise, so he likely did something similar for Kai.

I think we probably would have heard a more refined, versatile version of Drummond's Vegeta in that dub since the voice would have been consistent from the Saiyan-Cell arcs (and Boo if Ocean ever got to do The Final Chapters).

It also helps that all the actors were asked to re-audition, so they had to compete with other actors that had no incentive to be consistent with what they did before. It was likely a whole new take for each of the characters and Drummond likely showed he could still bring that to the table.