Trunks should've been the hero of the Cell arc

[BernardoCairo]

The days of arcs being given actual space and time to tell a complete story are long behind us now, as current-day Dragon Ball is all about the marketing and getting to the next big thing as quick as possible.

Anime-wise? Yeah. But Toyotaro does take time with his arcs. It doesn't hit the same, as his manga comes out monthly, not weekly. But it is much better than the anime (Super, Daima etc).

[SupremeKai25]

The days of arcs being given actual space and time to tell a complete story are long behind us now, as current-day Dragon Ball is all about the marketing and getting to the next big thing as quick as possible.

Anime-wise? Yeah. But Toyotaro does take time with his arcs. It doesn't hit the same, as his manga comes out monthly, not weekly. But it is much better than the anime (Super, Daima etc).

The Future Trunks arc lasted for 5 months - from June to November 2016. The Tournament of Power saga? 13 months. February 2017 to March 2018.

The Super anime wasted too much time on these arcs. And I say this as someone who loved these arcs. They did not warrant so many months. The Future Trunks saga would've been improvedly markedly with less filler and one less time travel trip. And the Tournament absolutely did NOT warrant over 1 year of weekly anime episodes.

Toei should've done these arcs in a shorter format. They took too much time, if anything.

That's why my greatest hope for the Super Remaster is that they adopt a seasonal format. Just make 13 episodes for Zamasu and 25 for the Tournament. That seems just the right amount for the story being told.

And it does seem to be going that way. Dragon Ball Super: Beerus will have 6 episodes. That same arc in the original anime from 2015 had 14 episodes.

Maybe it's weird for me to say this, given how often I praise Zamasu, but I really do believe that Toei dragged out these arcs for too long. It's a relatively simple conflict, in the end. Doesn't have as many twists and turns as, say, the Cell saga. Didn't really warrant 21 episodes. And I can only hope the Moro saga will be shorter.

[BernardoCairo]

The Future Trunks arc lasted for 5 months - from June to November 2016. The Tournament of Power saga? 13 months. February 2017 to March 2018.

The Super anime wasted too much time on these arcs.

I know this is an unpopular opinion, but I believe the extra time given to the Tournament of Power in the anime actually did the arc a lot of good. Without all those episodes, I doubt the conclusion would have been quite as epic. Like it or not, people eventually became invested in the story over time.
Sure, it led to plenty of lackluster episodes, but still. It’s the one arc I prefer in the anime, precisely because Toyotaro rushed through it so much in the manga.

[SupremeKai25]

The Future Trunks arc lasted for 5 months - from June to November 2016. The Tournament of Power saga? 13 months. February 2017 to March 2018.

The Super anime wasted too much time on these arcs.

I know this is an unpopular opinion, but I believe the extra time given to the Tournament of Power in the anime actually did the arc a lot of good. Without all those episodes, I doubt the conclusion would have been quite as epic. Like it or not, people eventually became invested in the story over time.
Sure, it led to plenty of lackluster episodes, but still. It’s the one arc I prefer in the anime, precisely because Toyotaro rushed through it so much in the manga.

20 episodes for the "Recruitment phase" before the Tournament itself began was definitely too much. That's as long as the Future Trunks saga, and that arc was already too long.

I do agree that it's a good thing they gave entire episodes to smaller universes to flesh them out. I liked Ribrianne and I liked that Kefla and Anilaza weren't off-screened.

But the Recruitment phase was too long and I hope they cut it if/when they make a new version of that saga for the new Super anime.

It's just too much... you don't need 20 episodes focusing on the lead-up to that Tournament.

[kemuri07]

A big reason why I'm so negative towards DBS is because of the pacing issues with The Tournament of Power. Week after week of being bored out of my mind, helped in no small part that because the show was already hyping up Goku's brand new form even before it happened, so nothing actually mattered.

I do prefer the manga's emphasis on the "Battle Royale" aspect because it actually created tension within the set piece. By default opinion is that the manga's adaptation of the anime is superior. Taking a bad show, and making it somewhat readable. Of course my opinion of the manga itself drops off once it gets into the manga exclusive story arcs.

[JulieYBM]

I remember that my biggest writing criticism during the Tournament of Power during its initial broadcast was that the series wasn't intercutting with other storylines more. I remember hearing once that a big fear during the production of The Lord of the Rings trilogy was that audiences would get battle fatigue. Obviously, that's going to look a bit different compared to just three films that have—in the extended editions—just over eleven hours of scenes, but I think it's a kernal of wisdom that the production—which was basically being cobbled together at the last minute really out to have learned from. If not simply to reduce the strain on the number of complicated shots needed to be animated, I think that mixing in flashbacks for characters to flesh out their stories and their bonds to one another would have worked. Given how long the tournament part of the arc is, I feel like the series outght to have just bit the bullet and literally done one minute per episode for 48 episodes, but relied more on letting characters have storylines. That lack of a buffer in the production to spend more time on working out the order of events is one of the biggest issues with its story.

I also think that intercutting the recruitment stuff with the battles would have probably helped with the structuring issues a lot more, but, well, here we are.

I think one of the most interesting aspects of the Tournament of Power is that, by its nature of being an event that happens in-universe, you could retell that event from any POV, in any sort of genre. Production committee or network requirements to solely frame the series in a more Goku-inclusive manner inevitably harms the storytelling and prevents a richer variety of different stories that can be told and I think that's a pretty major issue with the series as a whole. Fukkatsu no F doesn't need to be a Goku story. Hell, it doesn't even need to be a Vegeta story. Imagine focusing solely on Freeza as the main character? Getting more into his internal thoughts beyond just visuals of him being irate in Hell or whatever.

The Universe 6 arc would have probably been a lot more interesting a story if the 'main character' was Hit or even Cabbe, rather than Goku.

It feels like broken record syndrome, but it really does just feel like the issue lies solely in Toriyama's refusal to break his own arbitrary rules and in the production staff's inability to push for more or request more wiggle room for making firm designs to plant their feet. I think this is why there are those parts of the Tournament of Power or even the Future Trunks arc where it feels like there's a confidence to character writing or depictions and then there are places where there's a tepidness to make waves by making a firmer statement. The latter, I mean something like the manner in which the Future Zen-Ou's actions are basically just glossed over.

It's hard not to feel sorry to the folks who worked on that series. Everyone was being screwed over left-and-right and what few small victories that exist there are because of their own hardwork.

[WittyUsername]

The anime version of the ToP felt very drawn out and tedious to me when I watched it, but the manga version sort of has the opposite problem, where it’s pretty barebones and seems kinda rushed. The fact that a good chunk of the eliminations in the manga either happen offscreen or as a result of Kale’s rampage would suggest that Toyatoro wanted to be done with it as quickly as possible.

Regarding the topic of the thread, yeah, I can’t say I disagree that Gohan getting thrust into the spotlight during the Cell Games sort came out of nowhere. I don’t know if I agree that Trunks needed to be the “hero” of the story, but it would’ve been nice if Gohan being the hero had been set up more.

[Zebra]

I do prefer the manga's emphasis on the "Battle Royale" aspect because it actually created tension within the set piece.

The manga didn't make it feel more like a battle royale at all. It just went by quicker and left more things off-screen.

[SorikaiWolf89]

Think about it, the story is already more so about Trunks than any one else. He incites the plot by going to the past to seek out Goku's help, and in doing so, inadvertently puts the Earth in far greater danger than it otherwise would've been. The Androids end up being far more powerful than they're supposed to be, his attempt to cure Goku backfires when the timing of the disease changes, and worst of all, he ends up attracting a far worse threat than even Androids. Cell is here BECAUSE of Trunks, and he killed a Trunks to get here. If Cell is anyone's nemesis, he's Trunks'.

Even the fact that Goku, the hero that Trunks hedged all his bets on ends up not being strong enough to save the day feels like it's all in service of having Trunks realize needs to learn to have faith in himself and take charge of his own fate. If nothing else, I think it would've made for a more cohesive story than Gohan taking over in the final hour after hardly being in the story.

If Trunks was the MC of the Cell Saga then it would’ve probably ended WAY sooner like before it even began bc he doesn’t screw around and takes threats extremely seriously given his hellscape of a timeline

Trunks would have probably instantly killed Dr Gero and 19 if he arrived sooner in the past , destroyed Gero’s lab if he knew its whereabouts, deactivated 17 and 18 with the emergency shut off remote , then once he finds out about Cell he’ll find him and kill him while he’s still weak enough to take down

Anyway yeah I totally get what you’re saying with Trunks being the catalyst for the past changing so much and wanting him to make up for his mistakes

I still think Cell would’ve shown up regardless anyway though even if it wasn’t for Trunks
Not everything that went wrong was his fault as he didn’t even know about Cell himself nor did he know that the past would change so drastically so I don’t think it’s fair to blame him for every single change that happened in the past

[Saiya6Cit]

You know what I agree with you, it should have been Trunks the one who defeated Cell, and maybe at some point Akira Toriyama attempted to move the story into that direction himself, but (as mentioned by other members here, yes i READ you I just don't feel the need to quote you) in a similar way it happened when he attempted to have Gohan as the main character for the Majin Buu arch, the general public seemed to be very attached to Goku and Vegeta and demanded to have them on every arch. Manga, being an industry dependent on the public's preferences, had to adapt to public demands. Unlike for example a book, in which the story is already finalized.

I also agree with the fact that Trunks created Cell and it was his responsibility to kill it. The other day I was thinking if Cell killing Future Trunks was some form of "karma" because it was Vegeta who allowed him to become Perfect, because it works as such in the real world, life finds a way to ask you for pay backs where it hurts you the most...

[PhantomSaiyan]

because it works as such in the real world, life finds a way to ask you for pay backs where it hurts you the most...

I agree but it doesn't work in this case though because the Vegeta that let Cell reach his Perfect Form isn't affected by that specific version of Trunks dying, at all.
Does he even know that it happened?