Mister_Popo wrote: Fri Sep 04, 2026 12:34 pm
I don't think that, based on how the fight between Base Goku and Final Form Frieza was portrayed in the 2015 version of the RoF anime, there was already a clear intention to retcon the previous concept. On the contrary: at that point, there was still plenty of room for interpretation, and that ambiguity is precisely what caused the confusion.
It seems more likely that the anime largely carried over the movie's portrayal. Given the limited production time, they probably didn't make too many changes to how the God forms and Goku's power were portrayed. Final Form Frieza is extremely powerful in RoF, and although Goku lacks the explicit unique aura that he had in the movie, I don't think it's clear that Goku is immediately and overwhelmingly outclassed by Frieza without transforming. They exchange attacks, Goku is able to dodge and block Frieza's attacks, and he is also able to land hits on Frieza himself. The fight lasts long enough to at least suggest that Base Goku was in the same general ballpark as Frieza's normal form. Moreover, if a retcon was actually intended, then why were the SSJ and SSJG forms completely absent at the time, including during the training on Whis' planet?
With the RoF movie as the background context, that was therefore a reasonable interpretation, especially since we didn't yet know how the SSJ(G) forms would be handled in the arcs that followed. That ambiguity was definitely still there at the time.
Yep Base Goku and FF Freeza are equal in the anime arc, complete opposite to the movie, where Base Goku is stronger than FF Freeza because of Beyond God.
I think what the anime did added more to it, it wasn't that much close to the movie.
In the movie, Goku says that SSJB is the SSJ with the power of a SSJG. But it's never explained how much different that is supposed to be in comparison to when SSJ1 Goku absorbed SSJG's power in the previous movie. They just say the "power of SSJ God" which can be interpreted as SSJB not exactly being a evolution to the actual SSJG form or "regular SSJ over it", which works pretty well woth the idea of Beyond God replacing the red transformation.
For the movie it's said: "Super Saiyan God Super Saiyan. Akira Toriyama further expanded on the concept of the “Super Saiyan God” transformation featured in Battle of Gods by incorporating its power into that of a Super Saiyan. As Toriyama explained it, and as Son Goku similarly mentions in the movie, “This Super Saiyan is a Saiyan with the power of Super Saiyan God”.
In the Anime, it's changed to SSJB being the SSJ state of a SSJG. That more precise explanation in my view already feels more like that it's being treated as a evolution to SSJG, setting it apart from the absorption in SSJ1 form when he fought Beerus, so there's a emphasis to the actual red form transformation being mentioned in this version (not just its power). Goku later says that Vegeta didn't had to go through the ritual for example, also not mentioned in the movie.
In the movie Vegeta doesn't even tells Freeza that he got SSJG, he only says that he got the regular SSJ.
And finally, the anime has Goku using the SSJ aura before transforming.
So all this makes it clear at least for me that the anime started to be accurate to the manga in that concept starting by the Golde Freeza arc.
But yeah, it's not clear enough which might be the reason they'll be showing SSJG in the remake.
What I believe will remain, however, is the stronger version of SSJ Goku at the end of Battle of Gods. That doesn't necessarily have to mean that the Beyond God concept became a permanent part of Goku's Base form. It can instead be explained as an after-effect of the prolonged battle against a deity with divine power, combined with Goku temporarily pushing far beyond his own limits while being emotionally charged by the thought that his world was going to be destroyed.
I really hope so. But it would be just pure headcanon if they still keep Beerus explaining that Goku absorbed the power, in the old anime he explicitly says that it didn't disappear. So if they don't cut that, or don't give a different explanation, it will remain the same thing as the 2015 version in my opinion, where the retcon happens and you just have to accept that Goku can't or don't want to do that anymore.
Grimlock wrote: Fri Sep 04, 2026 1:40 pm
Super Saiyan Rosé 2 and 3 don't need explanation, we know exactly what they are. It's a god with their natural god Ki transformed into Super Saiyan 2 and 3, respectively. It is the exact same principle as Super Saiyan Rosé,
which is Goku Black's version of Super Saiyan God Super Saiyan regardless of the continuity.
Super Saiyan Rosé Full Power unfortunately goes unexplained and we don't know what it is. It seems like a form between Super Saiyan 3 and Super Saiyan 4, though that obviously doesn't answer anything, in fact, it raises questions.
Yep they don't need, that's why I said this in the latest part:
angeldreamZ004 wrote: Fri Sep 04, 2026 12:30 pm
But for 2-3 Rosé, SSJ2 and 3 Blue are theoretically possible as well.
It's right that it follows the idea of if SSJG can be combined with SSJ1, then it can also be combined with SSJ2 and 3. But what I meant is that SDBH never cared about explaining those forms, as we don't see Black explaining how he got Rosé SSJ3, if he trained or something. He just casually transforms into it.
That is like SDBH is treating it as if we already saw those levels of Rosé before in a main media, so it demands no explanation, we can only come up with one because we know how "SSJ1 Blue / Rosé" works thanks to Super explaning it, but if it wasn't for it, we would be confused as well. This is what leads up to the mystery of SSJR Full Power, it appears as if we already saw it or a "SSJ Full Power with SSJ3 Hair and tail" before.
So it not only raises questions about it, but also Goku himself, why he doesn't use SSJ2 3 Blue or "SSJ Blue Full Power" in that series for example?
(I only watched the anime of SDBH, so if the manga gave explanations you can tell me)
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