Non-thread-worthy discussions

[Koitsukai]

I don't have an issue but I can understand the complaint because it wasn't just a throwaway line. But I wouldn't have Vegeta wait until the Cell Games are over to unlock SS, he already struggled with it for the entirety of the Namek arc, with all that build up he better be stronger than Jiren when he gets the form.

And having three SS being unable to deal with the androids raised the stakes much more than just one of them losing. Perhaps, the answer would've been to soften Vegeta a little bit due to the Bulma effect, just enough for him to be able to unlock the form. Expedite the Bulma effect just a little.

And while it does undermine the previous theme (and the legend itself), the technicality that he has a pure heart, a pure evil one is pretty funny.

[MasenkoHA]

Vegeta unlocking Super Saiyan in the same conflict that Gohan reaches Super Saiyan 2 would feel tacked on and out of place.

It was done at the right time. Plus the concept of a pure heart to reach Super Saiyan was sketchy at best. Goku just kind of mentions he’s pure of heart during his I Am The Super Saiyan Son Goku” speech and Kurrin somehow claims that’s an actual factor 5 years later when Vegeta does.

[Scsigs]

Not sure where to put this since all the English dub threads are dead, Mike McFarland, voice of Roshi, Yajirobe, Android 8, & some others has apparently died.

[Scsigs]

Not sure where to put this since all the English dub threads are dead, Mike McFarland, voice of Roshi, Yajirobe, Android 8, & some others has apparently died.

He was also Baby in GT & showran the dub for One Piece &, I believe, Attack on Titan. The first major death of one of the mainstay DB voice actors in the US (the only other one I can think of being Brice Armstrong over a decade ago, but he was mainly only secondary characters & was already recast in Kai before he died). He was only 56 too. He's got some big shoes to fill with whoever they get to play his roles in the future DB dubs.

[Dragon Ball Ireland]

Not sure where to put this since all the English dub threads are dead, Mike McFarland, voice of Roshi, Yajirobe, Android 8, & some others has apparently died.

He's also the second English Roshi we lost this year after Michael Donovan.

[ZeroNeonix]

I like that idea of Vegeta lagging behind with the Super Saiyan form, even behind his own son, until Cell Freeza's Trunks and his righteous rage transforms him. His building frustration could have led nicely to the Buu arc, where he trades his heart for power, finally catching up to Goku. Or so he thinks.

However, for that change to work, some things about the Cell saga would have to change. When Goku's heart virus kicks in, who saves him? Okay, maybe Trunks arrives a little earlier and swoops in just in time to save Goku. What about when Cell needs the last android to achieve his perfect form? He can't manipulate Trunks' Saiyan curiosity like he can Vegeta.

[PhantomSaiyan]

I like that idea of Vegeta lagging behind with the Super Saiyan form, even behind his own son, until Cell Freeza's Trunks and his righteous rage transforms him. His building frustration could have led nicely to the Buu arc, where he trades his heart for power, finally catching up to Goku. Or so he thinks.

However, for that change to work, some things about the Cell saga would have to change. When Goku's heart virus kicks in, who saves him? Okay, maybe Trunks arrives a little earlier and swoops in just in time to save Goku. What about when Cell needs the last android to achieve his perfect form? He can't manipulate Trunks' Saiyan curiosity like he can Vegeta.

It would be incredibly reduntant to have this in the same arc (let alone the same fight) as Gohan reaching SSJ2, and lessens its imapct.

Like MasenkoHA already said, his transformation happened perfectly at the perfect time.

[ZeroNeonix]

I like that idea of Vegeta lagging behind with the Super Saiyan form, even behind his own son, until Cell Freeza's Trunks and his righteous rage transforms him. His building frustration could have led nicely to the Buu arc, where he trades his heart for power, finally catching up to Goku. Or so he thinks.

However, for that change to work, some things about the Cell saga would have to change. When Goku's heart virus kicks in, who saves him? Okay, maybe Trunks arrives a little earlier and swoops in just in time to save Goku. What about when Cell needs the last android to achieve his perfect form? He can't manipulate Trunks' Saiyan curiosity like he can Vegeta.

It would be incredibly reduntant to have this in the same arc (let alone the same fight) as Gohan reaching SSJ2, and lessens its imapct.

Like MasenkoHA already said, his transformation happened perfectly at the perfect time.

Was Vegeta's "my Bulma" scene lessened by Super Saiyan God Goku's appearance in the same movie?

[DanielSSJ]

I like that idea of Vegeta lagging behind with the Super Saiyan form, even behind his own son, until Cell Freeza's Trunks and his righteous rage transforms him. His building frustration could have led nicely to the Buu arc, where he trades his heart for power, finally catching up to Goku. Or so he thinks.

However, for that change to work, some things about the Cell saga would have to change. When Goku's heart virus kicks in, who saves him? Okay, maybe Trunks arrives a little earlier and swoops in just in time to save Goku. What about when Cell needs the last android to achieve his perfect form? He can't manipulate Trunks' Saiyan curiosity like he can Vegeta.

For the former, I think it'd be fine if Vegeta was still the one to save Goku. The point of #19 and #20 is that they aren't that strong, but that they can absorb energy makes them tricky to fight, and the former only beat a Goku whose strength was already compromised by the heart virus. Plus, if Vegeta comes off really strong in base form, it'd be a great rug pull when it's revealed that no, he doesn't have Super Saiyan to fall back on when he tries his luck against #18.

For the latter, suppose the fight between Trunks and Cell takes too long, and Vegeta gets progressively more impatient and annoyed, and starts complaining about it. And Trunks tries to ignore it, but the longer it goes on, the angrier Vegeta gets, and the more it gets into Trunks's head, and the worse his performance suffers, and that makes Vegeta even angrier. It gets to the point that Vegeta says something that takes Trunks's head out of the fight completely (perhaps he accuses Trunks of hiding his full power out of pity, which Trunks is), and Cell uses the distraction to stun Trunks and make his move against #18. It's still Vegeta's fault, but in a way that directly ties into this new character arc: if Vegeta hadn't let his resentment get the better of him and kept his mouth shut, Trunks probably would've killed Cell.

It would be incredibly reduntant to have this in the same arc (let alone the same fight) as Gohan reaching SSJ2, and lessens its imapct.

Like MasenkoHA already said, his transformation happened perfectly at the perfect time.

I don't agree, the scenes would be doing completely different things. Gohan's is a proper Super Saiyan moment, a moment of catharsis where the tide finally turns and Cell definitively gets put on his ass. Vegeta's is just there to highlight its own futility, and Vegeta's culpability. Like, congratulations jackass, you're finally a Super Saiyan! It only cost you your son, and you're still not strong enough to lay a finger on Cell.

[PhantomSaiyan]

Was Vegeta's "my Bulma" scene lessened by Super Saiyan God Goku's appearance in the same movie?

Yeah, 100% no question about it.
In fact, your example solidified it in my mind even more how much I would hate a universe in which Vegeta's first Super Saiyan appearance is as underwhealming and inconsequential as the my Bulma scene.

Vegeta's is just there to highlight its own futility, and Vegeta's culpability. Like, congratulations jackass, you're finally a Super Saiyan! It only cost you your son, and you're still not strong enough to lay a finger on Cell.

Which completely sucks compared to his actual first Super Saiyan appearance so once again I'm glad fans didn't write the story

[The Dark Knight]

Yeah, 100% no question about it.
In fact, your example solidified it in my mind even more how much I would hate a universe in which Vegeta's first Super Saiyan appearance is as underwhealming and inconsequential as the my Bulma scene.

I agree that Vegeta going Ssj during the Cell games after Gohan achieves Ssj2 would have indeed been pointless and underwhelming, but I disagree in comparing it to the "My Bulma" scene from BOG; that scene was anything but pointless. Vegeta breaking and showing everyone how much he cared about Bulma was a very different scene from everyone coming together and helping Goku reach a new form; they're not competing for the same attention from the audience, so neither takes anything away from the other. I would agree with you if Vegeta reached Ssj3 during that moment and it became the focus of the scene, but he didn't.

[MasenkoHA]

I like that idea of Vegeta lagging behind with the Super Saiyan form, even behind his own son, until Cell Freeza's Trunks and his righteous rage transforms him. His building frustration could have led nicely to the Buu arc, where he trades his heart for power, finally catching up to Goku. Or so he thinks.

However, for that change to work, some things about the Cell saga would have to change. When Goku's heart virus kicks in, who saves him? Okay, maybe Trunks arrives a little earlier and swoops in just in time to save Goku. What about when Cell needs the last android to achieve his perfect form? He can't manipulate Trunks' Saiyan curiosity like he can Vegeta.

It would be incredibly reduntant to have this in the same arc (let alone the same fight) as Gohan reaching SSJ2, and lessens its imapct.

Like MasenkoHA already said, his transformation happened perfectly at the perfect time.

Was Vegeta's "my Bulma" scene lessened by Super Saiyan God Goku's appearance in the same movie?

The Bulma scene was pretty much a comedic “Aww look how much this former cold hearted selfish genocidal asshole truly loves his wife” thing it also didn’t happen AFTER the big Super Saiyan God ritual. And Vegeta didn’t get a new form from it

This is the most Apple and Oranges comparison

[PhantomSaiyan]

I agree that Vegeta going Ssj during the Cell games after Gohan achieves Ssj2 would have indeed been pointless and underwhelming, but I disagree in comparing it to the "My Bulma" scene from BOG; that scene was anything but pointless. Vegeta breaking and showing everyone how much he cared about Bulma was a very different scene from everyone coming together and helping Goku reach a new form; they're not competing for the same attention from the audience, so neither takes anything away from the other. I would agree with you if Vegeta reached Ssj3 during that moment and it became the focus of the scene, but he didn't.

That's fair, I wouldn't have used it as a comparison point either to be honest, I just responded to it being used as such since it got brought up

Overall I agree that character moments don't need transformations to hit, that's why Vegeta not being able to do a thing against Perfect Cell is already perfect as it is, him achieving SSJ1 in that moment adds nothing and would make for a way worse debut for him in that form

[Kid Buu]

I also just realised that Ox-King, Chi-Chi, Bulma, Puar and Oolong all debut in the first arc but don't due until the last arc when Super Buu eats them all.

[Chuquita]

Burst lemonade was fun. Keeping the Goku cup. Though I wish the cup was made of thicker plastic, or that they had a wider boba straw.

Sad about how dystopian fast food interiors are nowadays. I miss whimsical designs, sunrooms, and seating that makes the trip an experience instead of purely a transaction.