Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

[DanielSSJ]

Even without using King Piccolo, Nappa was at 4,000 and when serious one full force attack killed Piccolo who was at 3,500 and the one elbow attack he did was devastating to Piccolo. He didn't need to be double Piccolo's power to be above him so much. In DB it seems being 10-20% stronger is almost as if you were double the other person power.

I don't have a problem with the concept, I just thought Goku vs King Piccolo was a bad example (I actually have beef with Nappa's 4000 power level too, funnily enough). A better one would be Vegeta vs Kewi, Dodoria, and untransformed Zarbon.

[Noah]

If Black Freeza really is that strong, I can't help but wonder how he compares to Beerus. At this point, I think the thing I'm most interested in seeing in DBS is whether we'll ever get to see Beerus going all out.

[Hugo Boss]

So, we just got confirmation that Goku was imagining Cell in the same form that they fought (with SS1 aura) during his mental exercise. Besides, it seems the notion about Goku being the strongest after defeating Majin Boo in Daima and all Super branches is probably written in Toriyama outlines. I guess we will see how strong he thought Gohan was.

[Koitsukai]

So, we just got confirmation that Goku was imagining Cell in the same form that they fought (with SS1 aura) during his mental exercise. Besides, it seems the notion about Goku being the strongest after defeating Majin Boo in Daima and all Super branches is probably written in Toriyama outlines. I guess we will see how strong he thought Gohan was.

Unlike in the manga, where Goku just dances around Cell, this is closer to what a fight between the two would probably look like.

[dbgtFO]

So, we just got confirmation that Goku was imagining Cell in the same form that they fought (with SS1 aura) during his mental exercise.

Spoiler:

Besides, it seems the notion about Goku being the strongest after defeating Majin Boo in Daima and all Super branches is probably written in Toriyama outlines. I guess we will see how strong he thought Gohan was.

We got confirmation?
Where?
The real question is how strong he thinks Goku got..
If Goku didn't get multiple times stronger, but just like 50% stronger or something like that, which would be in line with Goku not having a strong enemy on the horizon and therefore remaining stagnant.

[Hugo Boss]

So, we just got confirmation that Goku was imagining Cell in the same form that they fought (with SS1 aura) during his mental exercise.

Spoiler:

Besides, it seems the notion about Goku being the strongest after defeating Majin Boo in Daima and all Super branches is probably written in Toriyama outlines. I guess we will see how strong he thought Gohan was.

We got confirmation?
Where?
The real question is how strong he thinks Goku got..
If Goku didn't get multiple times stronger, but just like 50% stronger or something like that, which would be in line with Goku not having a strong enemy on the horizon and therefore remaining stagnant.

The first episode of enhanced Super just came out in October 11, with extra scenes of Goku’s mental training that, so far, were manga-only content. In this episode, Goku vs. Cell was much more uptight, and we can see that Cell has the same SS1 aura that Goku has. Goku “won” but he had to put a hell of a finishing blow. Anyway, my point is that Toriyama didn’t consider SS1 Goku stronger than Super Perfect Cell, if his SS2 aura is missing here.

[QuakingStar]

So, we just got confirmation that Goku was imagining Cell in the same form that they fought (with SS1 aura) during his mental exercise.

Spoiler:

Besides, it seems the notion about Goku being the strongest after defeating Majin Boo in Daima and all Super branches is probably written in Toriyama outlines. I guess we will see how strong he thought Gohan was.

We got confirmation?
Where?
The real question is how strong he thinks Goku got..
If Goku didn't get multiple times stronger, but just like 50% stronger or something like that, which would be in line with Goku not having a strong enemy on the horizon and therefore remaining stagnant.

The first episode of enhanced Super just came out in October 11, with extra scenes of Goku’s mental training that, so far, were manga-only content. In this episode, Goku vs. Cell was much more uptight, and we can see that Cell has the same SS1 aura that Goku has. Goku “won” but he had to put a hell of a finishing blow. Anyway, my point is that Toriyama didn’t consider SS1 Goku stronger than Super Perfect Cell, if his SS2 aura is missing here.

Doesn't make much sense when he is fully confident and capable of fighting Kid Buu with SS when he needed SS2 to do so in the Buu Saga.

[DanielSSJ]

I wouldn't take it super literally personally. I think the point is more so that he's imagining their techniques and attack patterns than their actual power levels. Like, how good of training can it be to spar against a lore-accurate Freeza at Goku's current level?

[dbgtFO]

The first episode of enhanced Super just came out in October 11, with extra scenes of Goku’s mental training that, so far, were manga-only content. In this episode, Goku vs. Cell was much more uptight, and we can see that Cell has the same SS1 aura that Goku has. Goku “won” but he had to put a hell of a finishing blow. Anyway, my point is that Toriyama didn’t consider SS1 Goku stronger than Super Perfect Cell, if his SS2 aura is missing here.

Well I knew all that
Don't really count it as confirmation of anything, also there is one or two quick flashes of lightning, but obviously not like the consistent SSJ2 aura.
I just take it all as artistic license, as Freeza wasn't in his 100% form either.

[DBZ Macky]

So guys, any bets on whether we're gonna get the Base Goku < Frieza line in the next episode or not? I personally think it was Toriyama's intention to keep it but they might cut Beerus saying that nonetheless.

Well I knew all that
Don't really count it as confirmation of anything, also there is one or two quick flashes of lightning, but obviously not like the consistent SSJ2 aura.
I just take it all as artistic license, as Freeza wasn't in his 100% form either.

Yep, basically how I took that scene too. SS Goku > Perfect Cell not necessarily his Super Perfect state. That being said, SS Goku survived against Kid Buu about as well as SS2 Vegeta did (barely for a single minute) so he's getting there.

[Koitsukai]

So guys, any bets on whether we're gonna get the Base Goku < Frieza line in the next episode or not? I personally think it was Toriyama's intention to keep it but they might cut Beerus saying that nonetheless.

Well I knew all that
Don't really count it as confirmation of anything, also there is one or two quick flashes of lightning, but obviously not like the consistent SSJ2 aura.
I just take it all as artistic license, as Freeza wasn't in his 100% form either.

Yep, basically how I took that scene too. SS Goku > Perfect Cell not necessarily his Super Perfect state. That being said, SS Goku survived against Kid Buu about as well as SS2 Vegeta did (barely for a single minute) so he's getting there.

Was that line included in the first place in the original DBS anime? I can't remember. If it wasn't, then it won't be here either.

About the image training scene, I guess it speaks volumes that Goku wasn't even shown fighting Kid Buu and had to go "save" Goten.

[dragonball0900]

In regards to Cell, I believe he was in his Perfect form and not Super Perfect, because Frieza wasn't at 100%, only his 50%. It would also make sense because Perfect Cell is the one Goku fought. Cell didn't have lightning either.

[Hugo Boss]

The first episode of enhanced Super just came out in October 11, with extra scenes of Goku’s mental training that, so far, were manga-only content. In this episode, Goku vs. Cell was much more uptight, and we can see that Cell has the same SS1 aura that Goku has. Goku “won” but he had to put a hell of a finishing blow. Anyway, my point is that Toriyama didn’t consider SS1 Goku stronger than Super Perfect Cell, if his SS2 aura is missing here.

Doesn't make much sense when he is fully confident and capable of fighting Kid Buu with SS when he needed SS2 to do so in the Buu Saga.

He actually never fought Boo as a SS2 in the manga, only in the anime. And based on the episode, SS1 Goku wasn't even close to Boo anyway. Goku was being pressured and just as he was about to fire the kamehameha he got interrupted. As he talked with Goten, he still acknowleged that Boo was terribly strong and he needed to be prepared. And it makes sense that he would try to use SS1 in this match, since he also starts with SS1 against Beerus, despite being told his opponent is stronger than Boo.

I wouldn't take it super literally personally. I think the point is more so that he's imagining their techniques and attack patterns than their actual power levels. Like, how good of training can it be to spar against a lore-accurate Freeza at Goku's current level?

Goku was complaining the work was getting in the way of his training, so it makes sense that he takes a few steps back and raises the difficulty level at a reasonable pace until he is ready for more challenging exercises.

Well I knew all that
Don't really count it as confirmation of anything, also there is one or two quick flashes of lightning, but obviously not like the consistent SSJ2 aura.
I just take it all as artistic license, as Freeza wasn't in his 100% form either.

Goku probably didn't compute Freeza's "100%" as his actual power, since it's very similar to the heavy muscular forms of SS, which even Freeza himself judged unsuited for battle in the episode he tricked Frost. But Goku computed the teleguided kienzan, so he also settled with a version of Freeza with his whole set of skills. With Cell, it makes sense that he would imagine Perfect Cell, as he never fought Super Perfect Cell. And Boo, he also never fought Super Boo on his own. From a narrative standpoint and for the purpose of the scene, it makes sense that he was basing his opponents on what they could do against him.

So guys, any bets on whether we're gonna get the Base Goku < Frieza line in the next episode or not? I personally think it was Toriyama's intention to keep it but they might cut Beerus saying that nonetheless.

Yep, basically how I took that scene too. SS Goku > Perfect Cell not necessarily his Super Perfect state. That being said, SS Goku survived against Kid Buu about as well as SS2 Vegeta did (barely for a single minute) so he's getting there.

It was kept in episode 2.

By the way, my take of that scene is not so different from yours, but I still don't get how we compare this scene, which lasted like a few seconds, with SS2 Vegeta's fight, which lasted almost an entire episode.

In regards to Cell, I believe he was in his Perfect form and not Super Perfect, because Frieza wasn't at 100%, only his 50%. It would also make sense because Perfect Cell is the one Goku fought. Cell didn't have lightning either.

Precisely. As we can see in episode 2, SS2 has an entire section of effects that were added and Cell didn’t have any of them. We only saw Goku and Cell sparking their aura for a full power clash.