Non-thread-worthy discussions

[angeldreamZ004]

Is it fair to give credit to Goku for saving the universe? Goku went to Zeno without intending to save anyone, his intention was to start a tournament. Goku didn't think it was risky or anything going to Zeno. To make it worse Goku was provoking the other unvierse by acting like a villain.

Consequences of his acts, can be either for the positive or negative and it's a plot that started back then with the Champa arc. In the case of not listening to Beerus he was indeed being imprudent, but that doesn't mean Goku had 0 reasons to not fear Zeno, since the Champa arc their friendship is developed, Zeno then wants him as his friend and trusts him the button, he acts kindly towards him while being harsh on others, and Goku pleases him even more by bringing him Future Zeno. So it's not like as if it only caused problems, Beerus himself wasn't innocent as the other Hakaishins also viewed him negatively, so Goku's not the only one to blame for any mistake.

In the ToP Goku kept dropping his guard constantly

Because it's a battle royale and he had to also save his energy constantly in order to have a better performance against the stronger opponents, also serving as a excuse to expose us to his weaker forms, Vegeta and other characters do the same thing, so I don't know why only blame Goku for doing that. The mistake being Toei having Goku fight too many opponents who are weaker than him instead of leaving most of them to weaker U7 fighters like Toyotaro did, so leaves a bad impression.

and even got upset at C17 for using his brain instead of praising him for being smart.

You know that is not meant to be taken seriously just like the Monaka episode as it's a joke moment made to mock the battle shounen trope of characters waiting fpr the antagonist to transform. And those characters weren't even supposed to transform, so I don't even know why bother about it.

Toei filler episode really exaggerated Goku being dumb, it is like Goku had to constantly act dumb and annoying. The Monaka Episode was Goku being out of character, in the episode Bulma builds a time machine in secret she states that Goku can't keep a secret. In Goku Black Saga Goku kept saying and doing dumb things, even ignoring Master Roshi to wait so he could get the talisman.

True but I already addressed Toei making him dumb in a attempt to make you laugh, and it doesn't happen to him only, there were many "Not Take it Seriously" moments or episodes where Vegeta was stupid too, or other characters.

[Koitsukai]

Consequences of his acts, can be either for the positive or negative and it's a plot that started back then with the Champa arc. In the case of not listening to Beerus he was indeed being imprudent, but that doesn't mean Goku had 0 reasons to not fear Zeno, since the Champa arc their friendship is developed, Zeno then wants him as his friend and trusts him the button, he acts kindly towards him while being harsh on others, and Goku pleases him even more by bringing him Future Zeno. So it's not like as if it only caused problems, Beerus himself wasn't innocent as the other Hakaishins also viewed him negatively, so Goku's not the only one to blame for any mistake.

Interesting point you make, because when something bad happens as a consequence of one of Goku's decisions, he gets blamed for it, regardless of what his actual intention was, as if it was Goku's intention for the Androids to kill many people on Papaya Island, when that wasn't what he intended at all.

But when the consequence is something positive, like saving every universe, suddenly it doesn't count because that wasn't his original intention. In other words, his intentions only seem to matter when they can be used to dismiss a positive outcome, while they're completely disregarded when there's a negative outcome to blame him for.

[angeldreamZ004]

Spoiler:

Interesting point you make, because when something bad happens as a consequence of one of Goku's decisions, he gets blamed for it, regardless of what his actual intention was, as if it was Goku's intention for the Androids to kill many people on Papaya Island, when that wasn't what he intended at all.

But when the consequence is something positive, like saving every universe, suddenly it doesn't count because that wasn't his original intention. In other words, his intentions only seem to matter when they can be used to dismiss a positive outcome, while they're completely disregarded when there's a negative outcome to blame him for.

That's a common thing that happens in real life. In the case of Dragon Ball you'll see that treatment from both actual characters and fans. When bad things happen people are curious and tend to look for someone to blame, while good things come “naturally” if there isn't enough exposure from those behind it.
In the context of ToP, it's completely reasonable for people to not recognize Goku as someone who helped to save the Multiverse by being someone from one of the universes that the Zenos planned to erase, who had the courage to go to them propose a tournament where those universes would have a chance to fight, and his universe ended up being the one with a winner that wished for all the universes to be restored.
The reason being because Goku never intended to present himself as a hero, as someone who wanted the universes to survive after hearing about Zeno's plan. We don't even know what he planned to wish for Super Shenlong, if his wish would be the same as 17's, he wasn't even sure about it when questioned.

So it's easier to blame him for the tournament happening due to him being selfish and desiring to fight strong people as it was the only thing he said, regardless if it's just part of the bigger equation.

[MasenkoHA]

It’s easy to blame Goku if fans all just went deaf at the part where they explicitly mention that Zeno was going to erase the universes with low moral ranking and Goku’s tournament suggestion gave them a fighting chance. I’m convince it’s fans latching on to that dumb DBZA bit from their Eradicate Christmas Special

Like it’s pretty tough, but the weird “blame Goku for almost having universe 7 wiped from existence” thing might actually go down as dumbest complaint from the fandom.

[Kid Buu]

It’s easy to blame Goku if fans all just went deaf at the part where they explicitly mention that Zeno was going to erase the universes with low moral ranking and Goku’s tournament suggestion gave them a fighting chance. I’m convince it’s fans latching on to that dumb DBZA bit from their Eradicate Christmas Special

Like it’s pretty tough, but the weird “blame Goku for almost having universe 7 wiped from existence” thing might actually go down as dumbest complaint from the fandom.

I swear, this is the only other time I've seen this brought up. It's so ignored, that I actually questioned myself wherever that scene even really happened.

[SupremeKai25]

I recall one scene in the anime where one of the Kaioshin explicitly states that Goku ultimately did a good thing, because Zeno was gonna erase some universes anyway. Thanks to Goku's stubborness, those universes were given a chance to save themselves. The universes most at risk were 9, 6, even Goku's own 7, those universes who had low mortal rankings and were deemed failures by Zeno. Goku gave those people a chance to save themselves.

The only thing Goku is guilty of is ignoring Beerus' warnings. But also, Beerus is a clown. Have people forgotten that in the previous arc Beerus didn't know that wearing a Time Ring protects the user from changes to time? That's a terrible thing to get wrong for a god and Bulma even scolded Beerus for his ignorance. They nearly DIED in the Future because Beerus wrongly told them erasing Past Zamasu would also kill Goku Black, even though he knew Black wore a Time Ring. If Trunks didn't get a super new form, they all would've died because of Beerus' incompetence.

Beerus might be a god, but gods are not infallible, far from it in fact. Frankly, Goku was justified in ignoring Beerus' warnings in the ToP. The cat is incompetent and can't do his job. He can't be trusted, not because he's malicious, but because he's incompetent.

[super michael]

Zeno didn't erase the world 1,000 years into the future and Zeno didn't erase Future Trunks time line, until Goku got Zeno involved with Zamasu. If Goku didn't get Zeno involved then he wouldn't have erased the future time line.

How do we know Zeno would actually erase the present time line, if Goku didn't go to his place? For all we know Zeno could forget, just like how Zeno forgot about the tournament.

Because it's a battle royale and he had to also save his energy constantly in order to have a better performance against the stronger opponents, also serving as a excuse to expose us to his weaker forms, Vegeta and other characters do the same thing, so I don't know why only blame Goku for doing that. The mistake being Toei having Goku fight too many opponents who are weaker than him instead of leaving most of them to weaker U7 fighters like Toyotaro did, so leaves a bad impression.

Being a battle royale is more reason to not drop his guard, which Goku did about 3 times leaving himself vulnerable. There is nothing wrong with conserving energy, but there was no excuse with him being careless and leaving his guard down.

True but I already addressed Toei making him dumb in a attempt to make you laugh, and it doesn't happen to him only, there were many "Not Take it Seriously" moments or episodes where Vegeta was stupid too, or other characters.

Just because they were made for laugh doesn't mean they were written good. They should have used other characters for those scenes.

Goku is an expert at martial arts, he saw through Kami lies who is a God and he saw through his disguise. They should use other characters who has no feet like Goku.

You know that is not meant to be taken seriously just like the Monaka episode as it's a joke moment made to mock the battle shounen trope of characters waiting fpr the antagonist to transform. And those characters weren't even supposed to transform, so I don't even know why bother about it.

Goku didn't have any problem in attacking anyone that had their guard down like his battle against Recoome. Again they should have used another character. The Monaka episode completely contradicts Goku as a character, which is bad.

[angeldreamZ004]

Like it’s pretty tough, but the weird “blame Goku for almost having universe 7 wiped from existence” thing might actually go down as dumbest complaint from the fandom.

I contest to that, the weirdest thing I saw the fandom complaining about is the kiss thing, I even used to believe that it wasn't serious and people were only joking about it. But I guess I'm wrong, given how this page exists.

Zeno didn't erase the world 1,000 years into the future and Zeno didn't erase Future Trunks time line, until Goku got Zeno involved with Zamasu. If Goku didn't get Zeno involved then he wouldn't have erased the future time line.

You focus on specific moments in order to complain about Goku, but aside from "should've used other character" you talk as if removing those moments would've solved things or made you complain less about them, which is not true.

Zamasu literally fused with the Future Timeline Universe and was even affecting the Present Timeline, imagine the consequences of that, everyone could die, so let's imagine that Goku did nothing, and Infinite Zamasu destroyed everything. Goku could have saved Trunks and the others because he had Zeno's button, escaping from a dead timeline where Zamasu killed everyone else on Earth, other mortals and gods, and had the chance to save the other timelines where everything was fine, but decided to not use the button for some reason because...he was dumb? That means you would still complain about Goku anyway.

How do we know Zeno would actually erase the present time line, if Goku didn't go to his place? For all we know Zeno could forget, just like how Zeno forgot about the tournament.

There were two Zenos this time, and both of them agreed with each other about erasing the universes, it wasn't the decision of only one. So the chances of one reminding the other about it would've been big. Maybe if it was only one Zeno he could forget about it more easily. If Goku never went to the two Zenos and they decided to erase the universes, then it would be his fault because he's the one who brought the other Zeno to the present timeline, so he was dumb. Meaning you would still complain about Goku anyway.

Being a battle royale is more reason to not drop his guard, which Goku did about 3 times leaving himself vulnerable. There is nothing wrong with conserving energy, but there was no excuse with him being careless and leaving his guard down.

Even if he didn't do it with weaker opponents, he could've done it when fighting Jiren only for example. Meaning you would still complain about Goku anyway.

Just because they were made for laugh doesn't mean they were written good. They should have used other characters for those scenes.

Goku is an expert at martial arts, he saw through Kami lies who is a God and he saw through his disguise. They should use other characters who has no feet like Goku.

I never said it was written good though, if it's funny or not, well written or not that will depend solely on the viewer. The comparison you're making is with a scene that is supposed to work as a serious mystery, we weren't supposed to know that the guy was Kami. The Monaka episode we all know that is Beerus because it's part of the joke. And even with that, Beerus has God Ki and could hide it from Goku, Goku himself didn't use any God form in the fight, he was holding himself against the supposed Universe 7's strongest. And if Goku ended up discovering that it was Berrus in disguise, he would still be fooled because of Puar, thinking he was the real Beerus despite the different eye design and voice. Meaning you would still complain about Goku anyway.

Goku didn't have any problem in attacking anyone that had their guard down like his battle against Recoome. Again they should have used another character.

Comparison with a important scene made to shock and show how Goku has evolved? It's meant to be special, build drama and characters developments of Goku and Vegeta, something that Super also does in moments that were much more appropriate for you to compare with than a joke moment. That scene in the ToP is purely a joke and has nothing special about it. Still, let's pretend then that Goku didn't complain about 17 doing that then, it would show us that he had no problem with it. But then, why he didn't do the same thing to other opponents? Just replicate what 17 did or what himself did to Reacoom, but he decided to not do it, which is dumb. Meaning you would still complain about Goku anyway.

The Monaka episode completely contradicts Goku as a character, which is bad.

Okay, if that episode was such a problem and you blame Toei for it, then let's pretend that the episode doesn't exist. It wouldn't change anything, because the Monaka joke would still exist anyway, as it came from Toriyama, in both the anime and manga, you would still see Goku being fooled by Beerus, you would still see Goku being the only one who didn't discover the truth about it and that Beerus was lying. Meaning you would still complain about Goku anyway.

[SupremeKai25]

The world 1000 years into the future that Zamasu and Gowasu explore is intact because a certain android 1 year into the future wished all the universes to be back... how's that proof of anything.

[Kid Buu]

I recall one scene in the anime where one of the Kaioshin explicitly states that Goku ultimately did a good thing, because Zeno was gonna erase some universes anyway. Thanks to Goku's stubborness, those universes were given a chance to save themselves. The universes most at risk were 9, 6, even Goku's own 7, those universes who had low mortal rankings and were deemed failures by Zeno. Goku gave those people a chance to save themselves.

The only thing Goku is guilty of is ignoring Beerus' warnings. But also, Beerus is a clown. Have people forgotten that in the previous arc Beerus didn't know that wearing a Time Ring protects the user from changes to time? That's a terrible thing to get wrong for a god and Bulma even scolded Beerus for his ignorance. They nearly DIED in the Future because Beerus wrongly told them erasing Past Zamasu would also kill Goku Black, even though he knew Black wore a Time Ring. If Trunks didn't get a super new form, they all would've died because of Beerus' incompetence.

Beerus might be a god, but gods are not infallible, far from it in fact. Frankly, Goku was justified in ignoring Beerus' warnings in the ToP. The cat is incompetent and can't do his job. He can't be trusted, not because he's malicious, but because he's incompetent.

What I don't get is why he seems to non-chalent about his life link to Supreme Kai. Buff Buu and Fat Buu almost murdered him, and Dabura flat out did it in the other timeline.

[MasenkoHA]

Like it’s pretty tough, but the weird “blame Goku for almost having universe 7 wiped from existence” thing might actually go down as dumbest complaint from the fandom.

I contest to that, the weirdest thing I saw the fandom complaining about is the kiss thing, I even used to believe that it wasn't serious and people were only joking about it. But I guess I'm wrong, given how this page exists.

The complaints about the kiss thing amounts to 1. Some fans taking Z filler at face value and thinking it contradicts earlier material 2. Having to swallow the pill that Goku had intercourse with Chi Chi at least twice but never kissed her. Also it goes back to the complaints of Super dumbing down Goku with him being around 40 and not knowing couples kiss being at odds with the same dude who figured he can buy the help of a geriatric god by offering him mortal ass and tiddies to touch.

The tournament complaint is way dumber because it only exist because a large segment of the fandom just ignored the whole “Zeno was just going to wipe those universes before Goku’s tournament suggestion gave him the idea

There are valid complaints about the kissing thing, even if it’s not worth getting hung up on a quick gag. There are no valid complaints about “Goku almost risked the existence of the universe” because it only exist due to fans not paying attention to the show they’re allegedly watching

[SupremeKai25]

I recall one scene in the anime where one of the Kaioshin explicitly states that Goku ultimately did a good thing, because Zeno was gonna erase some universes anyway. Thanks to Goku's stubborness, those universes were given a chance to save themselves. The universes most at risk were 9, 6, even Goku's own 7, those universes who had low mortal rankings and were deemed failures by Zeno. Goku gave those people a chance to save themselves.

The only thing Goku is guilty of is ignoring Beerus' warnings. But also, Beerus is a clown. Have people forgotten that in the previous arc Beerus didn't know that wearing a Time Ring protects the user from changes to time? That's a terrible thing to get wrong for a god and Bulma even scolded Beerus for his ignorance. They nearly DIED in the Future because Beerus wrongly told them erasing Past Zamasu would also kill Goku Black, even though he knew Black wore a Time Ring. If Trunks didn't get a super new form, they all would've died because of Beerus' incompetence.

Beerus might be a god, but gods are not infallible, far from it in fact. Frankly, Goku was justified in ignoring Beerus' warnings in the ToP. The cat is incompetent and can't do his job. He can't be trusted, not because he's malicious, but because he's incompetent.

What I don't get is why he seems to non-chalent about his life link to Supreme Kai. Buff Buu and Fat Buu almost murdered him, and Dabura flat out did it in the other timeline.

He's lazy and incompetent. It's the same reason he let Freeza enslave and wipe out entire civilizations. Of the trio of gods, Whis is the only one who is sensible and competent.

Unfortunately, because of the Angel Law, Whis is stuck baby-sitting Beerus. He can't exactly put an end to Freeza or Buu himself because that would be breaching the Angel Law of neutrality.

Not that the other Destroyers are much better. The elephant guy from 10 is also incompetent. I mean, Zamasu was able to get away with what he did only because the elephant guy seemingly never keeps tabs on Gowasu's well-being. In the manga the elephant dude is scared that he'll be reprimanded by the Grand Minister for failing to protect his Kaioshin adequately.

[Scsigs]

It’s easy to blame Goku if fans all just went deaf at the part where they explicitly mention that Zeno was going to erase the universes with low moral ranking and Goku’s tournament suggestion gave them a fighting chance. I’m convince it’s fans latching on to that dumb DBZA bit from their Eradicate Christmas Special

Like it’s pretty tough, but the weird “blame Goku for almost having universe 7 wiped from existence” thing might actually go down as dumbest complaint from the fandom.

To TFS' credit, in the creator commentary for that special, they DID admit they jumped the gun on that since they wrote that joke when the Tournament of Power started. They DID say that it felt like the writers of Super taking some of the heat off Goku for that, but at least they admitted fault there.

[super michael]

You focus on specific moments in order to complain about Goku, but aside from "should've used other character" you talk as if removing those moments would've solved things or made you complain less about them, which is not true.

Zamasu literally fused with the Future Timeline Universe and was even affecting the Present Timeline, imagine the consequences of that, everyone could die, so let's imagine that Goku did nothing, and Infinite Zamasu destroyed everything. Goku could have saved Trunks and the others because he had Zeno's button, escaping from a dead timeline where Zamasu killed everyone else on Earth, other mortals and gods, and had the chance to save the other timelines where everything was fine, but decided to not use the button for some reason because...he was dumb? That means you would still complain about Goku anyway.

My complaint about DBS has already been that the writers went overboard making Goku dumb, if they didn't make Goku very often, then I wouldn't complain. Doing dumb things can be funny.
The writers should have come up with original things to be funny, not doing things that the characters should already know.

Lets assume that it was impossible for Zeno to just kill Zamasu and leave the time line alone, it was still Goku fault that they couldn't beat Zamasu. Master Roshi told Goku clearly to wait while he gets the talisman. Goku chose to ignore Master Roshi and left without getting the talisman. Goku went to the future without the talisman. To make it worse Goku forgot the urn in the time machine. If Goku had any brains, he would ask Kaioshin to go to the past and ask Master Roshi to give him a new talisman and urn.

There were two Zenos this time, and both of them agreed with each other about erasing the universes, it wasn't the decision of only one. So the chances of one reminding the other about it would've been big. Maybe if it was only one Zeno he could forget about it more easily. If Goku never went to the two Zenos and they decided to erase the universes, then it would be his fault because he's the one who brought the other Zeno to the present timeline, so he was dumb. Meaning you would still complain about Goku anyway.

I guess you have a point there. Both Zeno idea of fun is playing chess with the planets, while one Zeno has no idea about the tournament.

Even if he didn't do it with weaker opponents, he could've done it when fighting Jiren only for example. Meaning you would still complain about Goku anyway.

Goku shouldn't drop his guard against any opponent, regardless if they are weak or strong. He knows anyone can attack him.

I never said it was written good though, if it's funny or not, well written or not that will depend solely on the viewer. The comparison you're making is with a scene that is supposed to work as a serious mystery, we weren't supposed to know that the guy was Kami. The Monaka episode we all know that is Beerus because it's part of the joke. And even with that, Beerus has God Ki and could hide it from Goku, Goku himself didn't use any God form in the fight, he was holding himself against the supposed Universe 7's strongest. And if Goku ended up discovering that it was Berrus in disguise, he would still be fooled because of Puar, thinking he was the real Beerus despite the different eye design and voice. Meaning you would still complain about Goku anyway.

The writers should have come up with new ideas for joke episode or use other characters who has no experience for the joke. Like I said before it is like Goku had to be the center of attention to be dumb and clueless. Goku can sense God Ki even in his Base form.
Everyone has different ki signature, smell and voice. Goku heard Yamcha spill the beans, still nothing Goku couldn't figure it out.

Comparison with a important scene made to shock and show how Goku has evolved? It's meant to be special, build drama and characters developments of Goku and Vegeta, something that Super also does in moments that were much more appropriate for you to compare with than a joke moment. That scene in the ToP is purely a joke and has nothing special about it. Still, let's pretend then that Goku didn't complain about 17 doing that then, it would show us that he had no problem with it. But then, why he didn't do the same thing to other opponents? Just replicate what 17 did or what himself did to Reacoom, but he decided to not do it, which is dumb. Meaning you would still complain about Goku anyway.

Why must the joke always involve Goku being dumb, even when Goku should know better?

Okay, if that episode was such a problem and you blame Toei for it, then let's pretend that the episode doesn't exist. It wouldn't change anything, because the Monaka joke would still exist anyway, as it came from Toriyama, in both the anime and manga, you would still see Goku being fooled by Beerus, you would still see Goku being the only one who didn't discover the truth about it and that Beerus was lying. Meaning you would still complain about Goku anyway.

That episode turned Goku into a huge clown. That episode doesn't exist in the manga, so the idea is from Toei. I know in the manga Goku believe Monaka is strong, whoever Toei takes it too far. Manga Monaka hasn't demonstrated that he is weak.





The issue with DBS is it was predictable that Goku would say or do something dumb annoying. They have a huge cast of characters to do the joke, which would make sense, but they always used Goku even if it made zero sense. Goku was a annoying Whis so much, that he almost decided not to train Goku. That is something Goku has never done to his previous masters.

[Koitsukai]

Lets assume that it was impossible for Zeno to just kill Zamasu and leave the time line alone, it was still Goku fault that they couldn't beat Zamasu. Master Roshi told Goku clearly to wait while he gets the talisman. Goku chose to ignore Master Roshi and left without getting the talisman. Goku went to the future without the talisman. To make it worse Goku forgot the urn in the time machine. If Goku had any brains, he would ask Kaioshin to go to the past and ask Master Roshi to give him a new talisman and urn.

But the Time Machine has limitations, it isn't an Uber that you take take to go to the past at any time. It requires fuel, Shin goes back in time but to come back he will need to wait some time, it's not like running back home to get the scarf you forgot.
Also, how come the idiot that couldn't come up with a solution is Goku and not Shin, a god? why aren't you blaming Shin for not going back in time to get what was missing?

Also, you seem to forget these aren't real characters, the timeline wasn't destroyed because gOkU iS dUmB, but because that's what Toriyama intended all along. The arc was doomed from an out of universe direction, not because one of the characters dropped the ball.
Shit, I even wonder if the jar would've been able to hold Zamasu, a god, if Black puts on the Potara forcing their fusion... besides, Black was still around and strong enough to defeat both saiyans, he just needed to retrieve the jar and open the lid.

[super michael]

Lets assume that it was impossible for Zeno to just kill Zamasu and leave the time line alone, it was still Goku fault that they couldn't beat Zamasu. Master Roshi told Goku clearly to wait while he gets the talisman. Goku chose to ignore Master Roshi and left without getting the talisman. Goku went to the future without the talisman. To make it worse Goku forgot the urn in the time machine. If Goku had any brains, he would ask Kaioshin to go to the past and ask Master Roshi to give him a new talisman and urn.

But the Time Machine has limitations, it isn't an Uber that you take take to go to the past at any time. It requires fuel, Shin goes back in time but to come back he will need to wait some time, it's not like running back home to get the scarf you forgot.
Also, how come the idiot that couldn't come up with a solution is Goku and not Shin, a god? why aren't you blaming Shin for not going back in time to get what was missing?

Also, you seem to forget these aren't real characters, the timeline wasn't destroyed because gOkU iS dUmB, but because that's what Toriyama intended all along. The arc was doomed from an out of universe direction, not because one of the characters dropped the ball.
Shit, I even wonder if the jar would've been able to hold Zamasu, a god, if Black puts on the Potara forcing their fusion... besides, Black was still around and strong enough to defeat both saiyans, he just needed to retrieve the jar and open the lid.

The time ring doesn't have a cool down time and it doesn't drain the user energy. I am aware that the time machine has limitation due to the limited fuel that it has.
Kaioshin doesn't know anything about how the Mafuba works or what material is needed for the technique to work. That is why I can't blame him. There are techniques that even Gods doesn't know.


From a out of universe point of view yes Toriyama wanted Future Trunks time line to be destroyed, but normally I like to talk from a in universe point of view. They could have come up with a better way for the villains to be unstoppable other than making Goku dumb.

[ABED]

Dragon Ball GT is a show I want to like more than I actually enjoy it.

[Scsigs]

Dragon Ball GT is a show I want to like more than I actually enjoy it.

I think that's most people who watch it, tbh. It has great things in it, but it's lacking the creativity & energy Toriyama gave the series in the manga & later in Super.

[super michael]

When it comes to the anime, I prefer GT over Dragon Ball Super. Here is my ranking:

Dragon Ball = Good
Dragon Ball Z = Good
Dragon Ball GT = Good
Dragon Ball Super (anime) = Bad
Dragon Ball Daima = Good

Dragon Ball (manga) = Good
Dragon Ball Super (manga) = Good


DBS Super remastered I won't judge it until it is out.

[JulieYBM]

Dragon Ball GT lacks a good creative edge in general. The series just has no sauce to it because it's series director has none. It's a toy commercial with a bunch of handcuffed people working on it.