Non-thread-worthy discussions

[ZeroNeonix]

When it comes to the anime, I prefer GT over Dragon Ball Super. Here is my ranking:

Dragon Ball = Good
Dragon Ball Z = Good
Dragon Ball GT = Good
Dragon Ball Super (anime) = Bad
Dragon Ball Daima = Good

Dragon Ball (manga) = Good
Dragon Ball Super (manga) = Good


DBS Super remastered I won't judge it until it is out.

Personally, I'd rank the anime like this:

Dragon Ball: Good

Dragon Ball Z: GOAT

Dragon Ball GT: Bad

Super: Meh

Daima: Wildly inconsistent, with high highs and low lows

[The Dark Knight]

Here is my ranking:

Dragon Ball = Good
Dragon Ball Z = Good
Dragon Ball GT = Good
Dragon Ball Super (anime) = Bad
Dragon Ball Daima = Good

DB: Good
Z: Great
GT: Mediocre
Super: Bad
Daima: Average

[DanielSSJ]

When it comes to the anime, I prefer GT over Dragon Ball Super. Here is my ranking:

Dragon Ball = Good
Dragon Ball Z = Good
Dragon Ball GT = Good
Dragon Ball Super (anime) = Bad
Dragon Ball Daima = Good

Dragon Ball (manga) = Good
Dragon Ball Super (manga) = Good


DBS Super remastered I won't judge it until it is out.

Dragon Ball manga = amazing
Dragon Ball anime = fine
Dragon Ball Z = fine
Dragon Ball GT = bad
DBS anime = didn't watch
DBS manga = mediocre
Dragon Ball Daima = mediocre

Woof I kinda don't like watching Dragon Ball as an anime.

[QuakingStar]

Dragon Ball = Good

Dragon Ball Z/Kai = Good

Dragon Ball GT = Meh(Peaks with SS4 Introduction and its first fight)

Dragon Ball Super (anime) = Okay (Would be better if SSB didn't exist, SSG is cooler and should have been the staple form up until UI and UE.)

Dragon Ball Daima = Okay (Gomah should have been a fake-out villain, SS4 should be explained as only possible without the tail due to Nevas magic enabling him to temporarily use it, and Shin and Kibito should have ate the fusion bug and since they are Kais it would have been permanent until they are wished to be unfused in DBS.)

Dragon Ball (manga) = Good

Dragon Ball Super (manga) = Okay(Again SSB should not exist and they rushed the ToP and the FT Sagas.)

[angeldreamZ004]

They rushed the ToP and the FT Sagas.)

Idk the Zamasu arc in the manga to me was fine, the arc that felt rushed aside from the ToP is the Champa arc, literally had its ending being just a summary, with details can only be seen in the anime unlike the Zamasu arc. And obviously not counting the Beerus arc which is trimmed.

[Scsigs]

When it comes to the anime, I prefer GT over Dragon Ball Super. Here is my ranking:

Dragon Ball = Good
Dragon Ball Z = Good
Dragon Ball GT = Good
Dragon Ball Super (anime) = Bad
Dragon Ball Daima = Good

Dragon Ball (manga) = Good
Dragon Ball Super (manga) = Good


DBS Super remastered I won't judge it until it is out.

For me...

Dragon Ball = Good
DBZ = Good
GT = Dogshit
Kai = Great
Super = Ok

GT is great ideas, bad execution incarnate. It lacks Toriyama's involvement on the story & character writing. So much that they pivoted from the episodic space adventure to a Z-style story arc really quickly because even they didn't like what they were coming up with in the writers' room. During Baby, though, we get really bad filler with the stupid board game shit that no one asked for as well as a bit of an anti-climactic ending. After Baby, though, the show goes off the rails with a short mini-arc that just rips off Fusion Reborn, retcons the Androids to have ki & be able to sense ki despite it being a plot point in Z that they didn't & couldn't do that & even though I'd believe 18 could sense ki, 17 shouldn't be able to, then has a terrible antagonist in Super 17 only to get us to the final arc where they waste a bunch of time on uninteresting dragons that spawn from the Dragon Balls all to just redo how Goku killed Buu with the Spirit Bomb, then an ending that IS actually good, but the lead-up to it sucks ass. Also, how did they make an evil doppelganger of 17 in Hell that can give off ki & brainwash both original 17 & 18? That's stupid & they never explain it because they knew it was.
Also, they killed Piccolo for really no reason. Yes, it's to make the Black Star Dragon Balls (which are stupid in of themselves) inert, but they're scattered across the galaxy. No one else in the universe outside of the Namekians even knows what the Dragon Balls even are & so they don't have Dragon Radars. I'm pretty sure they did it to try to tug on the heartstrings of longtime fans, only Piccolo was only in like 1 episode before that point & gets bitched by Baby-possessed Gohan. Then after the Earth blows up, they just wish it back with the Namekian Dragon Balls, so that meant nothing. Piccolo deserved better.

Super, its problems are bad pacing, writing Goku as if he's genuinely mentally handicapped rather than a simpleton who just loves to fight because the Toei writers don't understand what Toriyama was going for with him at all, bad animation at times (which all the DB shows had beforehand, mind you, but people don't remember that), & stupid filler that doesn't need to be there. All of which, it seems like the remake/remaster is aiming to fix on top of adding stuff from the manga. The first 2 arcs didn't need to happen, but Toriyama insisted they did, iirc. After that, though, the ideas are much better, the pacing improves, the animation slowly got better or at least more consistently decent, & they actually do things with more of the characters even if not all of it's great. Also, they handle Piccolo & 17 MUCH better than in GT. 17 is an actual character & actually gets some character development rather than treating him like he's just been a drifter for 15 years since the end of Buu. I like Park Ranger 17. He's got a job, he's got a wife & kids, he wants to go on a cruise, & he's willing to step up to help save his universe. He's an actual person & not a pawn for evil. Piccolo as well, though they do the awful fanservice with him taking the blast for Gohan again for no reason other than fanservice, he's still much better used later on. Plus, Freeza. Everything they do with him after Res F is great. GT, they just team him up with Cell in Hell to fight & distract Goku so Gero & Miyu could use Super 17 to enact revenge on Earth which is a cool idea, but I don't care for how they executed it.

Pound for pound, Super is much better than GT & I can't be convinced otherwise.

Dragon Ball GT lacks a good creative edge in general. The series just has no sauce to it because it's series director has none. It's a toy commercial with a bunch of handcuffed people working on it.

Yep. Good ideas, bad execution.

[dbgtFO]

Pound for pound, Super is much better than GT & I can't be convinced otherwise.

A fucking men to that
GT bored me out of my mind and the fighting sucks 90% of the time, biggest sin you can commit in a Dragon Ball show! Super at least really gave it a good go at times obviously peaking with completely insanely exciting fights by the ToP

[Peach]

When it comes to the anime, I prefer GT over Dragon Ball Super. Here is my ranking:

Dragon Ball = Good
Dragon Ball Z = Good
Dragon Ball GT = Good
Dragon Ball Super (anime) = Bad
Dragon Ball Daima = Good

Dragon Ball (manga) = Good
Dragon Ball Super (manga) = Good


DBS Super remastered I won't judge it until it is out.

I am very conflicted when it comes to Super.

I loved:

• The Battle of Gods and the Resurrection F films

• The Master Roshi centric episodes in the Tournament of Power where he is fighting with such spirit.

• Android 17’s fights in the Tournament of Power

• Goku Recruiting Frieza in Hell

• Android 17 vs Jiren

I liked:

• The Universe 6 tournament (even though the animation and art direction were awful)

• The hour long Goku vs Jiren special.

• The First Appearance of Goku Black

• Dragon Ball Super: Broly and Super Hero

• The first 1/3 of the Moro saga

• The Granolah saga

I disliked just about everything else.

I hate:

• The weird glossy puppet cell shaded art style

• The Resurrection F and Battle of Gods remake seasons

• The background art

• Cutting to Zeno and people reacting constantly

I think Super Saiyan Blue looks tacky. The filters for Ultra Instinct make me motion sick. I find the writing bad. There are moments where Future Trunks, Future Mai, and Zamasu use these weird declarative JRPG like speeches that sound awful. I find the designs for Jiren, Hit, Future Trunks, and many others lazy or uninspired.

I think Super has some of the worst moments in the franchise (Goku and Vegeta changing Goku’s bedsheets), a horrible characterization for Goku & Future Trunks.

[ZeroNeonix]

Super Saiyan Blue definitely looks ugly a lot of the time. But in Super: Broly? That aura in particular looks really nice.



Same with Super Saiyan God. I don't like how Goku looks in God form most of the time, but in Super Broly, he looks great. Vegeta too. I think it mostly comes down to the shades of the colors used.



I wish we could get this kind of animation all the time.

[JulieYBM]

Shintani's seemingly going to be the character designer of the Moro arc, so unless they bring on a really bad composistor and color director, that arc should be really cool looking, too.

[The Dark Knight]

The Super remake look to be mimicking Shintani's coloring where possible.

[Peach]

Super Saiyan Blue definitely looks ugly a lot of the time. But in Super: Broly? That aura in particular looks really nice.



Same with Super Saiyan God. I don't like how Goku looks in God form most of the time, but in Super Broly, he looks great. Vegeta too. I think it mostly comes down to the shades of the colors used.



I wish we could get this kind of animation all the time.

My issue is the hair. Blue hair and eyebrows just look tacky on them. I’ve never been able to get used to it. And when Vegeta has blue armor to go with it, it’s just a lot of damn blue.

[QuakingStar]

SSB is a waste of a form, and is lame tbh. It was introduced immediately after SSG was introduced and it was introduced against Frieza. It is literally Super Saiyan, but colored Blue. If Toriyama would have had them master SSG instead and have that be the main form up until UI and UE it would have been much better.

[Chuquita]

Blue's still my least favorite of the DBS forms, but it did briefly get us new outfits for Goku and Vegeta. I miss those outfits from the F movie.

I like new outfits, gives a sense of time passing.

[JulieYBM]

I love Blue. It's a very simple visual change that takes up back to that well-remembered Super Saiyan hairstyle while setting it apart just enough. It's longevity as the primary form for Goku and Vegeta has been really nice, too. I love how it has its drawbacks, too, which means that it can't be spammed, and it's the God form that relies on focusing on overwhelming power over Super Saiyan God relying on funny little techniques. I hope that Tomioka Atsuhiro gets to pick up on what Nagamine Tatsuya was laying down in Dragon Ball Super: Broly and expand on the relationship between Super Saiyan God and Super Saiyan Blue.

[Grimlock]

I like new outfits, gives a sense of time passing.

We can't afford to have any of this... permanently.

I love how it has its drawbacks, too, which means that it can't be spammed.

Yeah, about that...

[angeldreamZ004]

Blue is not my favorite god form but I still love it and it just being a recolor doesn't bother me specially after seeing Goku black's transformation (though I would've kept the extra lowered bang as exclusive to the form, but i understand that it was more likely just the way they interpret Toriyama's art) I think it really suits the form"s concept, Goku and Vegeta are Saiyajins, they have their natural transformations, so how would them look like with those transformations + god ki? So makes sense to me why not have only the Red God as a new form prior to Ultra Instinct and Ego, plus the form being some sort of Super Saiyajin Full Power, as apparently Toriyama viewed Goku after BoG as trying to use the full extent of the SSJ transformations into the same form, SSJ1, so transforming into SSJ2 and 3 became obsolete. It helps to understand why we don't see SSJ2 or 3 Blue for example, because Blue already works as if it were a SSJ3 + God Ki, it reflects why Goku had to use Kaioken in the anime, and the stamina drain it has in the manga, being just like 3.

The only problem I have with the form is that it stole too much screentime from Red God, which wasn't necessary, there should be a better balancd. In Fukkatsu no F I can understand because Toriyama wanted Beyond God to be Goku and Vegeta's new base forms without changing their appearance, Red God was meant to be the base form with god ki. But then there are later situations, such as Vegeta using Blue God to fight Kyabe in the Champa tournament, which makes no sense to me, if he wanted to impress Kyabe by showing a god form, then should've went with Red God, it gives the impression that Blue was only used so we could lose more easily to Hit, the same who didn't shown to be superior to Red God Goku.

We can't afford to have any of this... permanently.

It depends on the character, many legacy characters permanently changed their designs / outfits, Kuririn more than twice, only switching back to his 23rd Tenkaichi Budokai uniform in the Golden Freeza, ToP and Moro arcs. Gohan now wears his Piccolo like uniform, with Toyotaro adopting that change ealier in manga ToP, just different colors for wristband and obi (I believe the decision of keeping him with his Boo Saga Goku Gi came from Toei)
If you are talking about Goku and Vegeta only though I agree, Toriyama at least made him switch back to his Boo Saga outfit. But I really think the Whis Symbol Outfits should've been kept.

[Peach]

SSB is a waste of a form, and is lame tbh. It was introduced immediately after SSG was introduced and it was introduced against Frieza. It is literally Super Saiyan, but colored Blue. If Toriyama would have had them master SSG instead and have that be the main form up until UI and UE it would have been much better.

I thought it was kind of refreshing to see Goku fight in his base in the Frieza movie. The series relied so much on transformations that not seeing them was a breath of fresh air. Battle of Gods ended with Goku absorbing some of the power of a God into his natural form. I had figured him and Vegeta would have continued to master their natural forms moving forward and not need transformations.

I would have preferred their base being how they fought from then on. With the red haired transformation used when they needed the full power of a god, requiring a ritual every time.

God/Blue just ended up becoming a new version of 4 in the end.

[JulieYBM]

I like new outfits, gives a sense of time passing.

We can't afford to have any of this... permanently.

I love how it has its drawbacks, too, which means that it can't be spammed.

Yeah, about that...

I'm speaking within the context of a serious battle, not training or as a gag. During the Tournament of Power, Goku is consistently trying to avoid using Blue when he can and I think that's the way to go if you're stuck needing to use every single form in a series, as opposed to just keeping one transformation at a time.

[BootyCheeksJohnson]

I like new outfits, gives a sense of time passing.

We can't afford to have any of this... permanently.

I love how it has its drawbacks, too, which means that it can't be spammed.

Yeah, about that...

I'm speaking within the context of a serious battle, not training or as a gag. During the Tournament of Power, Goku is consistently trying to avoid using Blue when he can and I think that's the way to go if you're stuck needing to use every single form in a series, as opposed to just keeping one transformation at a time.

I thought that after Battle of Gods it would be base form and Super Saiyan 1 for 90% of the time and God would only be used for an extra boost in moments of desperation. Which Toriyama and co. said was the plan going forward. They even said that with Goku absorbing the God ki into his body it would be more effective to train his base form and SSJ. 1 further than to layer on 2 & 3. Then Resurrection F added Blue, but the plan still could've worked if the series had been given more care. Like you said the Tournament of Power was one of the few times it seemed like Blue had draw backs and its use needed to be planned effectively.
Also did the writers forget that Super Saiyan God had a time limit?